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Gammel Dodge
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-02-18 11:03 PM (#163766)
Subject: Gammel Dodge



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Location: The Mile High City
Here is a photo of the data plate for my 1958 Dodge Royal two-door hardtop. It has many interesting options, I wonder if someone could help me decode the data plate?

Thanks,
Mike



(data plate 002 reduced.jpg)



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d500neil
Posted 2009-02-19 4:53 PM (#163852 - in reply to #163766)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Location: bishop, ca
Simple (for me, anyway): you've got a 1958 Royal 2-dr (you knew that) which was scheduled to be built VERY-early, like
around OCT 14, 1958 (!) , which is painted all black ("Ebony") and which has the silver/charcoal/silver interior motif.

It IS heavily optioned, and, again, in no particular order; it's got, OEM :

Deluxe Appearance Group: 2-tone s'/wheel, SPINNERS, stone shields, and clock ; Convenience Group: foam rear seat,
V'/speed wipers, Jiffy Jet, hand brake, glove box, map, and trunk lights, and vanity mirror ; Radio Group : radio (duh),
heater/defroster, B-U lights, LT o.s. (only) mirror, and I/S glare-proof mirror ; DUAL antennae ; Undercoating; all-Solex
windows w/shaded W/S; Truck Delivery, and, did I mention, yet: Single-4barrel D500 engine !

You should be very proud that somebody 'special-'ordered your car, or, that some car programmer wanted to do-up a
very sharp looking, and hot-operating, automobile.

AND, it undoubtedly has a lot of other OEM options on it (like, maybe, a RT o.s. mirror) that
are not listed on the P/T plate.

What is its engine stamping number????






Edited by d500neil 2009-02-19 4:57 PM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-02-20 12:22 AM (#163968 - in reply to #163852)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



500020001000500100100100100252525
Location: The Mile High City
Thank you, Neil:

A few questions for you: you mentioned that it has the silver/charcoal/silver interior motif - which must be the TRM 173 - but I thought 173 was black and ivory? It has black and ivory door panels, I have yet to uncover the original seats - in all these years I have never seen them.

I believe the car came with a rear defogger and perhaps a rear speaker with fader? I think you are correct that it also came with a a right-hand outside mirror. I did find the build sheet for this car and I made an exact reproduction of it. Does the data plate tell if this car came equipped with power steering? I do not believe it had power brakes.



(data plate 004 reduced.jpg)



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-02-20 12:33 AM (#163970 - in reply to #163968)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



500020001000500100100100100252525
Location: The Mile High City
Engine is in the shop right now - I'll have to get the stamping number when it comes home...
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Chrycoman
Posted 2009-02-21 1:44 PM (#164149 - in reply to #163852)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Location: Vancouver, BC
d500neil - 2009-02-19 1:53 PM

Simple (for me, anyway): you've got a 1958 Royal 2-dr (you knew that) which was scheduled to be built VERY-early, like
around OCT 14, 1958 (!) , which is painted all black ("Ebony") and which has the silver/charcoal/silver interior motif.

It IS heavily optioned, and, again, in no particular order; it's got, OEM :

Deluxe Appearance Group: 2-tone s'/wheel, SPINNERS, stone shields, and clock ; Convenience Group: foam rear seat,
V'/speed wipers, Jiffy Jet, hand brake, glove box, map, and trunk lights, and vanity mirror ; Radio Group : radio (duh),
heater/defroster, B-U lights, LT o.s. (only) mirror, and I/S glare-proof mirror ; DUAL antennae ; Undercoating; all-Solex
windows w/shaded W/S; Truck Delivery, and, did I mention, yet: Single-4barrel D500 engine !

You should be very proud that somebody 'special-'ordered your car, or, that some car programmer wanted to do-up a
very sharp looking, and hot-operating, automobile.

AND, it undoubtedly has a lot of other OEM options on it (like, maybe, a RT o.s. mirror) that
are not listed on the P/T plate.

What is its engine stamping number????



I think you have a typo - "1014" should be October 14, 1957, which is early production. The 1958 line of Mopar cars was introduced to the public on November 1, 1957. The 1959 models were in production in October, 1958.

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d500neil
Posted 2009-02-21 3:22 PM (#164159 - in reply to #164149)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Location: bishop, ca
Yeah; typo; there....1957, huh?

I kept this to myself for a long time, but, on an earlier-thread, I mentioned how and why this particular Broadcast Sheet
happened to have been taped to the (completed) dashboard panel.

Anyway, the hand-written notes were put on the bottom of the B.S. to alert the dash painter & assembler how the dash
assembly was to have been created.

Your dash panel is painted in all-black, and was assembled for a Royal model, and was to have a control for the rear defoster ("defogger")
be installed.

If it had had a padded dash on it, the instructions would have included the hand-written notation :"CP" ("crash pad") on it.
Also "RR Speaker" would have been written there, too, or "conv" (for top-control switch).

The "N"-guy apparently never slept, or left the factory, as his initial is (almost-) "always" seen on the B.S.'s.

YEP, you've got the right side mirror (no coding for it is available, on the P/T plate).

Your tires are interesting, as they were (cheapo-) RAYON, including a spare Rayon-tire, but in 8x14" white wall configuration.

I'd like to give you a HOMEWORK assignment: jack-UP, and get under your car's differential (on the passenger's side) and wire-brush-off
the grunge/paint, etc, so that you can read the slight-stamping impression on a small "flat" area, which will confirm your
car's rear axle gear ratio!

It does NOT appear to be the standard 3.36:1 open rear end; I'm thinking that you've got a Sure-Grip rear end, there,
but I'm not "positive" (get it?) about its ratio.

If you spin one rear wheel, and the other side rotates in the same direction : BINGO!----you could also, carefully count the
number of times the driveshaft rotates, for each rotation of the wheel (in neutral, I suppose)...

What's also kinda strange is that you have some sort of HD battery, but not an optional HD-amp generator.

Unfortunately, your car did not come OEM with a rear speaker (which would have had a fader-control on the dash, too).

Now, for your car's interior motif: I have a "163" TRM for a Royal 4-dr sedan, in "silver/gray, and black."

I have a "183" for a 4-dr Royal and a Sierra wagon, in "Ivory and black."

I have a"173" (like yours) for "silver/charcoal/silver" in a Royal 2-dr HT.

OH, OK: I just re-read your comment/question; no, "183" would be the Ivory & Black motif, not "173".

And, no, your car didn't come with power brakes.

But, I tell owners that they should contact the Firm Feel company, and discuss their being able to have carbon-metallic linings
be bonded-onto your car's (or, a donor-set of-) brake shoes, for extra stopping ability.

That's a good winter project.

Finally, your car was not special ordered, so you can thank some forever-nameless Programmer for
'designing' your car's unique OEM features!!!

NOW, go get under your car and check out its rear end gearset, and its ratio !!!!






Edited by d500neil 2009-02-21 4:18 PM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-02-21 7:22 PM (#164176 - in reply to #164159)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



500020001000500100100100100252525
Location: The Mile High City
so the silver/charcoal/silver must refer to the seats and not necessarily the interior door panels. My original interior door panels are black and ivory - I would expect a silver vinyl and charcoal fabric when I uncover the original seats? And I expect that charcoal is a nearly-black shade of gray? This should be interesting when I uncover the seats!

Oh, my daughter is with me and she wants hearts....

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Chrycoman
Posted 2009-02-22 12:53 AM (#164226 - in reply to #164159)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Expert

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Location: Vancouver, BC
d500neil - 2009-02-21 12:22 PM

Yeah; typo; there....1957, huh?



Yes, 1957. You will agree that the 1958 Dodges were in production and in your local dealer's showroom in January, 1958. Thus if a car is early production, it must have been built before January, 1958. On all calendars I have seen, the month of October is rather late in the calendar year - nine months after January, to be precise.

Thus a car built in October, 1958, would have been built nine months after January, 1958, which is rather late in the year to be an early production vehicle.

But, as year 1957 comes before year 1958, October, 1957, is three months BEFORE January, 1958. Thus a car built in October, 1957, was built before January, 1958, and could be classified as early production. It also fits nicely into the 1958 model year, which started September, 1957, and ended July, 1958.

By the way, rayon tires were standard equipment on virtually all cars back in the late 1950's. They were noted for their smooth ride in all types of weather whereas nylon tires were noted for going 'square' in cold weather. Can still remember riding in Dad's 1955 Dodge Regent with nylon tires in -40F winter weather, bouncing down the street until the nylon cord got warm enough to regain their original shape. Back in those days, the spare tire normally was the same the other four. Spare tires were optional in the 1930's (mandatory option, usually) to keep the advertised price low, and again in 1942 and 1946 due to war restrictions.

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-02-22 2:12 PM (#164287 - in reply to #164226)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Location: Parts Unknown

Does the Gammel Dodge wear Spring Special trim, or am I confusing it with another in Mike's "stable" o' Dodges ???

If it DOES have S/S trim ..... I am quite cornfoozed about this early production talk ?

el Confuzio
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55CRL
Posted 2009-02-22 3:52 PM (#164300 - in reply to #163766)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Elite Veteran

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At the time our cars where in daily traffic the owners where instructed to shift wheels with a rotating schema to wear them evenly and this included the spare.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-02-22 11:08 PM (#164354 - in reply to #164300)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



500020001000500100100100100252525
Location: The Mile High City

Howdy, Doc:

When I bought it, the Gammel Dodge had the fin caps. I added the license plat escutcheon because I don't think one looks right without the other. Harry P. & Freda F. Gammel bought the car on January 11, 1958. I thought maybe the dealer added the fin caps, but I don't know. I have the original receipt from James Motor Company in Denver (see picture). You can also read more at

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23347&posts=14#M153223

I know a lot of history on my DeSoto, but the Gammel Dodge has all the paperwork from the original sale.  Unlike the DeSoto, the Dodge has a bit of a gap where I don't know exactly how it came from the Gammel family to Mr. Flemming, who sold it to me.

As you can see from the receipt, Gammel bought it for $4468.50 with $600.00 down and a 1957 Coronet 2dr hardtop Serial # 35192193!  Also, Neil - you can see the engine number on the receipt - L360-7077 that is the correct original engine that is still with (and now back in) the car.





(receipt.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-02-23 2:00 AM (#164372 - in reply to #164354)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Location: Parts Unknown
Well, I suppose those fin caps could have been added at any time, including years after it was new. It is an interesting study to note the car was a real early production vehicle and yet didn't sell until January. As Neil pointed out, it was a stock vehicle and not a special order, meaning it was dealer ordered for stock inventory. With the bad recession in 1958, it appears this upscaled Dodge sat on the lot for some time before the right prospect came along. Not only an exceptional car, but a neat history too !

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-02-23 2:06 AM (#164373 - in reply to #164354)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Location: Parts Unknown

Sorry, ....brain fade. (it is late)

It just hit me how expensive that Dodge was !!!!!

$4600 and some change for a Dodge at a time when a Chevy ragtop could be had for $2500.

Wow !

I totalled up the junk on my DeSoto and figured it cost somewhere in the neighborhood of five large, .... I think a little over. My parents bought our brand new split level right about then for the whopping sum of $12K .... just to give some perspective !

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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-02-23 3:02 PM (#164451 - in reply to #164373)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Location: The Mile High City
Gadzooks! Is that correct? This car was most of the way to twice as expensive as a 1958 Chevy convertible??? It is amazing Dodge even sold one! And this wasn't even a top-of-the-line Custom Royal! Holy cow!

I wonder if it was like today's deals where they sell the car at sticker and then give a outrageous price for the trade in? I also wonder if we are comparing apples and oranges - is that the no-trade cash price for a bare bones Chevy convertible?
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d500neil
Posted 2009-02-23 5:06 PM (#164482 - in reply to #164451)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Usually, on a sales agreement, the dealership will show the value of any trade-ins and/or purchase discounts
on it.

I can't figure out this transaction. The buyer might have only had to pay $2239.48 for the car, after 'trading in'
the existing loan payoff value on his 1957 Dodge.

Bill, a car built in/on 10/57 is a very early 1958 (model year) production.

Please don't make me go back and find and post the article that I read, from '1958', which had nothing good to say about the
durability and the cost of Rayon cord tires.

I can't recall which issue that it was in.....





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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-02-23 11:29 PM (#164542 - in reply to #164354)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



500020001000500100100100100252525
Location: The Mile High City
It appears that one side of the ledger shows the total price of the car at $4619.71. The other side of the ledger appears to be what the Gammel's brought to the table: $600 (cash) + $1780.23 (trade-in) = $2239.48. That leaves a remaining balance of $2420.23 which is nowhere on the ledger.

I don't know what the "U. C. No." is and I don't know how to account for the "Payoff to Am. Nat'l" of $1052.55. It does appear that the $1780.23 is composed of one unit at $80.23 and 17 units at $100.00. Perhaps there was something so very wrong with their 1957 Dodge that James Motor Company applied all of their payments thusfar (one and one-half years of payments already made) toward the purchase of the 1958 Dodge?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-02-24 12:13 AM (#164549 - in reply to #164542)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Location: Parts Unknown
Mike, ...

I was thinking the same thing on the 57 trade in .... a lemon ? ... rust so bad you could see all four tires from the same side of the car ?

I have seen period ads for 57 Bel Air ragtops being sold new for "under $2500", basically meaning $2499.99.

I remember reading some factory strategy-think from the pre-Forward Look era where car makers had expended the post-war car starved market and were looking for ways to keep their balance sheets heading into positive territory. The answer was that since it was not going to be possible to sell more cars, the focus was to sell more CAR ..... more style, more colors, more gadgets.

Has anyone here ever heard the reasoning behind why Chrysler, DeSoto, and Plymouth forced buyers to a single model to get the performance package, yet Dodge sold their's across the board ?

If Dodge had a special model like 300 or Fury instead, I wonder how sales would have been affected ? It seems to my thinking, that flexibility to order it onto anything would prompt greater sales of that option package. I wonder what the profit margin was for the corp. on a D-500 vs. a Fury for the performance goodies ?

It would be very interesting to know why this car was ordered up the way it was.

BTW - does this car have the S/S fat dog side trim, or standard ?
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Chrycoman
Posted 2009-02-24 1:30 AM (#164557 - in reply to #164482)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Location: Vancouver, BC
d500neil - 2009-02-23 2:06 PM

Usually, on a sales agreement, the dealership will show the value of any trade-ins and/or purchase discounts
on it.

I can't figure out this transaction. The buyer might have only had to pay $2239.48 for the car, after 'trading in'
the existing loan payoff value on his 1957 Dodge.

Bill, a car built in/on 10/57 is a very early 1958 (model year) production.

Please don't make me go back and find and post the article that I read, from '1958', which had nothing good to say about the
durability and the cost of Rayon cord tires.

I can't recall which issue that it was in.....



As to rayon tires, my only comments were that rayon tires were standard equipment on almost all cars (which was true) and that nylon tires went "square" when cold (also true). No comments made about price or durability.

Rayon tires were cheaper than nylon, thus they were standard equipment. Nylon tires were offered as optional equipment but cost about $15-$20 more per vehicle. The claims back then were that rayon tires were inferior to nylon at high speeds. But to Ma and Pa driver, such as my parents, who did not drive over the speed limit the extra cost was just not worth it.

In the case of my father, when it came time for new tires (he bought the 1955 Dodge used in 1958) he bought rayon tires. And they lasted until he traded the Dodge for a 1960 Chevrolet BelAir in 1962 (he was impressed with the slant six and Torqueflite, but did not like the fins on the 1960 and, even more so, the 1961 Dart). And the Chevrolet had rayon tires.

His next car brought him back to the Dodge fold - a 1965 Dodge 330 4-door sedan, slant six engine with Torqueflite transmission.

For all the hoopla about the inferiority of rayon tires, they were still offered as standard equipment on Max-Wedge vehicles when they hit the market in 1962.

As for 1958 prices, N.A.D.A. used car guide listed the A.D.P. of a Chevrolet Impala V8 convertible at $2,841 while the 1958 Dodge Royal 2-door Lancer hardtop went for $2,854.

Now, add to the base Dodge Royal price -
Torqueflite - $220
Power steering - $92
Heater / Defroster - $84
Radio - $87

So far, the total comes to $3,337, out of a total $4,468.50. The only other major option is the engine - the D-500, 361-cid V8. That must have cost a small fortune! Anyone know?

The value of the trade in, a 1957 Coronet 2-door Lancer convertible, is listed at $3,292.03. There appears to have been an outstanding loan to the American National Bank for the sum of $1,052.55, which appears to have been paid off by the dealer. The buyer was thus given a net credit of $2,239.48 for the vehicle.

That $2,239.48, plus the $600.00 deposit and a note for $1,780.23, brought the total to $4,619.71.

The net end cost to the buyers was their deposit ($600.00) plus the loans ($1,780.23 + $1,052.55 = $2,832.78) for a total of $3,432.78. The $1,052.55 for the 1957 Dodge is included as that value was deducted from the total value of the car, thus increasing the amount owed. Of course, there is also the net value of his 1957 Dodge Coronet convertible ($2,239.48).
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Chrycoman
Posted 2009-02-24 1:43 AM (#164560 - in reply to #164542)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Location: Vancouver, BC
Lancer Mike - 2009-02-23 8:29 PM

It appears that one side of the ledger shows the total price of the car at $4619.71. The other side of the ledger appears to be what the Gammel's brought to the table: $600 (cash) + $1780.23 (trade-in) = $2239.48. That leaves a remaining balance of $2420.23 which is nowhere on the ledger.

I don't know what the "U. C. No." is and I don't know how to account for the "Payoff to Am. Nat'l" of $1052.55. It does appear that the $1780.23 is composed of one unit at $80.23 and 17 units at $100.00. Perhaps there was something so very wrong with their 1957 Dodge that James Motor Company applied all of their payments thusfar (one and one-half years of payments already made) toward the purchase of the 1958 Dodge?


Actually, $600 (cash) + $1,780.23 (Notes Rec. - loan) = $2,380.23, leaving a balance of $2,239.48, which is the net on the car ($3,292.03 minus $1,052.55 - the outstanding loan on the vehicle).

The $1,052.55 is the net balance of the loan on the 1957 Coronet, as it is listed as "Payoff to Am. Nat'l". It probably started out as $80.23 + (17 * $100.00) = $80.23 + $1,700.00 = $1,780.23.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-02-24 2:08 AM (#164566 - in reply to #164354)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



50005000500050002000500
Location: Parts Unknown

How did we establish that the trade-in 57 Coronet was a convertible ????

All I see is "2 door Lancer".

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Chrycoman
Posted 2009-02-24 3:26 AM (#164567 - in reply to #164566)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Expert

Posts: 1803
1000500100100100
Location: Vancouver, BC
Doctor DeSoto - 2009-02-23 11:08 PM


How did we establish that the trade-in 57 Coronet was a convertible ????

All I see is "2 door Lancer".



You're right. Seeing things, I guess, with "cor" at the end on the bottom line.

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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-02-24 10:56 AM (#164592 - in reply to #164549)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



500020001000500100100100100252525
Location: The Mile High City
Doctor DeSoto - 2009-02-23 10:13 PM

Mike, ...

BTW - does this car have the S/S fat dog side trim, or standard ?


Just the standard thin trim on this one, Doc. I do wonder if that '57 was a lemon. After only one year, wouldn't the Gammel's be upside-down on the car?
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-02-24 11:09 AM (#164593 - in reply to #164560)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



500020001000500100100100100252525
Location: The Mile High City
Chrycoman - 2009-02-23 11:43 PM

Actually, $600 (cash) + $1,780.23 (Notes Rec. - loan) = $2,380.23, leaving a balance of $2,239.48, which is the net on the car ($3,292.03 minus $1,052.55 - the outstanding loan on the vehicle).

The $1,052.55 is the net balance of the loan on the 1957 Coronet, as it is listed as "Payoff to Am. Nat'l". It probably started out as $80.23 + (17 * $100.00) = $80.23 + $1,700.00 = $1,780.23.


Let me see if I have this right, Bill:

At the end of the day, the Gammel's came to the James Motor Company with $600, a 1957 Dodge, and $1,052.55 in debt and went away from the James Motor Company with a 1958 Dodge and $2,239.48 in debt?

Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-02-24 11:13 AM
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d500neil
Posted 2009-02-24 2:11 PM (#164623 - in reply to #164593)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Think you've got it, Mike; but, let's get REAL: there were no (that I know of!) "Lemon Laws" in 1957-1958.

If the owner wanted to trade in the car (and, people DID get new cars, every year, or so, back then), he could do that.

The factory's very-limited new-car warranty extended only for several months and 12K miles (IIRC---not gonna go
look it up, right now, but I could, if I wanted to confirm those numbers), so, people didn't EXPECT their cars to last
for very-long, anyway, back then.

Maybe the owner didn't love (who knows?) his 57 (what's NOT to love???) , but, he obviously didn't HATE his car, so-much
as to CHANGE his brand affiliation, huh?

The fact that he's buying another Dodge indicates to me that he was not necessarily upset with the 57, and, it is somewhat
doubtful that on/by 1-11-58, IF.... the 1957 Dodge would have deteriorated so badly that its replacement would have become
so-obvious, that the owner would, then, go out and buy ANOTHER new Dodge?

I mean, we're not talking about some forlorn DeSoto, here!

Also, I don't see any special considerations, discounts, etc., being granted to the "disgruntled" trade-in-owner
in the paperwork, either; looks like they calculated his net purchase price based upon the FULL MSRP
of the 1958 Dodge.











Edited by d500neil 2009-02-24 3:53 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2009-02-24 4:03 PM (#164636 - in reply to #163766)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
The only 'discount' that the owner realized may have been the $1,052.55 trade-in-value, which the dealership
apparently agreed to pay to the loan company, to get title to the car?

Such a deal; the dealership, then, gets to sell the car for a couple-thou....and, sold the 1958 for what amounts to full
MSRP value.

The owner apparently never read the book Practical-Negotiation Tactics (the handbook, of adjusters).




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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-02-24 11:09 PM (#164738 - in reply to #164636)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



50005000500050002000500
Location: Parts Unknown

Not to say it didn't happen - where a person bought a new car each year (or two years in a row) - but it seems a bit odd to me that someone would take on all that additional debt for a car so similar - hard to find two different model years cars that are more similar than a 57 and a 58 Dodge - unless there was some reason to get rid of the one.

Now, let's say Mr. Gammel goes and buys a stereo, and in spite of liking the sound quality and price, the receiver won't pull in the AM band so he can listen to Dr. Laura in the afternoons ! He may take it back to mis Dodge, .... ur, I mean "stereo" dealer and have them give it some looking over. But over the course of a year's time, he still can't get the AM band, the dealer says "look, we like having you as a customer, Mr. Gammel, and we look forward to keeping you as a customer in the future ! We just happen to have had this much more upscale stereo here on the floor now for a few months, and we were thinking we might offer you a special deal whereby we pay off your existing loan if you agree to step up and buy this fancier model at full price. You get out of that stereo that won't get AM, and we can move this stereo and put you into a more uptown model".

It is well documented that there were some real horror stories amongst the 57 model cars. If Mr. Gammel was a good customer of the dealership and acted in good faith to work to get his 57 working right and it just didn't happen, the dealer may have tried to find a "mutually beneficial" solution to make the problem go away.

If the 57 and 58 Dodge were not essentially the same car, .... had it been some radical change between the two - like the 58 to 59 GM rework, it would be easier to understand why a one year old car was rolled over for something new and different. But they weren't.

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wizard
Posted 2009-02-25 12:33 AM (#164749 - in reply to #163766)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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As a parenthesis, just for fun "Gammel Dodge" means "The old Dodge" in Swedish - fits in nicely
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-02-25 1:48 PM (#164806 - in reply to #164749)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Thanks, Sven and Doc:

Another odd thing is that the Gammels and the Gammel family held on to that car for decades after it was purchased! If they were hot to have the latest and greatest car, it is strange they would have stopped the trend here. I guess I could call Charles (one of the boys) and ask him if he remembers why they ditched the '57...

Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-02-25 1:58 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2009-02-25 1:49 PM (#164807 - in reply to #163766)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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YEAH, Mr. Gammel was so outraged with his 1957, that he "had" to return it, and yet, expected the dealership
NOT to show him any special regard or consideration in demonstrating that they wanted or needed him (in a Recession year!)
to remain to be a loyal customer of theirs, by NOT giving him any special-deal on the new car purchase.

Uh, huh: convince a jury of THAT, especially when it can be demonstrated that people DID buy new cars every year,
or two, back then.

Exhibit A: Our down-the-block insurance-salesman neighbor, in Toledo, DID buy/get/obtain a new Dodge every year. The fact
that his name (really-) was: Mr. Rich, is irrelevant.....

People DID have disposable income back then, but, they were not stupid, in spending it, or going into
debt, to finance a lifestyle that they couldn't afford to maintain.







Edited by d500neil 2009-02-25 8:13 PM
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Rebels-59
Posted 2009-02-25 3:30 PM (#164825 - in reply to #164807)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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From NEIL...................

................................

................................

FOUND it; had to go back thru seven issues to locate it, but, here it
is, from the July 1956 MoTor Trend.

I think that my comment regarding Rayon ply tires as being "cheapo" is
supported by this article.

That is, unless a person were virtually-always NOT to drive his car
above 60 MPH (in a D500??).

The article does not mention that (50's-era) nylon tires may have become
'square' upon sitting, but
does state that (50's era) Nylon tires : "...has an even lower
coefficient of friction [than Rayon tires] and
is considerably more flexible."

My dad had a factory-executive-lot obtained new 57 CRL 2-dr HT, and I
dunno what kind of tires
it had, but they never became 'square' upon sitting out overnite in the
cold Toledo weather.

However, in the 60's , he insured a Fart dealership, and felt compelled
to buy a 62 and a 65 Fart
convertibles therefrom.

The 65 had "Firestone 500" Nylon tires on it, and THOSE tires definitely
could an did take a 'set'
from sitting overnite.

I think that it's interesting that neither the MT article, or any other
article that I've ever read, from the 50's
ever mentions or discusses the propensity for Nylon-cord tires to take
a 'square'-set, from having
sat (outside or not, and/or in the cold) on those tires for a
relatively short time.

I do know that those mid-60's FireSTONES were well named !



(205.jpg)



(206.jpg)



(207.jpg)



(208.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-02-26 7:47 PM (#165019 - in reply to #164807)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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d500neil - 2009-02-26 10:49 AM

YEAH, Mr. Gammel was so outraged with his 1957, that he "had" to return it, and yet, expected the dealership
NOT to show him any special regard or consideration in demonstrating that they wanted or needed him (in a Recession year!)
to remain to be a loyal customer of theirs, by NOT giving him any special-deal on the new car purchase.

Uh, huh: convince a jury of THAT, especially when it can be demonstrated that people DID buy new cars every year,
or two, back then.

Exhibit A: Our down-the-block insurance-salesman neighbor, in Toledo, DID buy/get/obtain a new Dodge every year. The fact
that his name (really-) was: Mr. Rich, is irrelevant.....

People DID have disposable income back then, but, they were not stupid, in spending it, or going into
debt, to finance a lifestyle that they couldn't afford to maintain.


****************************************

First of all, let's say Mr. Gammel was a well heeled and level headed gentleman with a patient sense of propriety and business. No one is saying he was outraged. Where did that come from ?

Why is this so hard to believe ? If there were no lemon laws and Mr. Gammel liked the car, had a fair amount invested into it (or committed to via contract), but the car was problematic, what was he to do but try and resolve the problem thru / with the dealership ?

His alternatives would be to sell it to an unsuspecting buyer ? Attempt a drawn-out legal fight of doubtful returns (given the lack of lemon laws), .... or what ? Just keep fixing it on his dime ?

If the argument against this scenario is the full retail price shown as having been paid, let's also consider he got a full retail credit for his trade in, something that seems strangely in favor of the buyer as an inducement to sign on.

It then comes back to why in the world would the owner of a year old 57 Dodge trade it in for a car of almost identical design and take on over $2000 debt in doing so ?

Something is amiss. If he switched to Oldmobile or Mercury, I would say he was dissatisfied with Dodge and made the jump. I submit he liked the car, but had some of the well documented problems with the 57's. After a year of trying to iron out the 57 to Mr. Gammel's liking, the dealer saw the opportunity to move a new car in a deep recession and turn this "problem" customer into a happy and paying customer. A win for the dealer for sure. If Mr. Gammel was sold on it too, then it must have been seen as a positive resolution to him too. Having been in business for many years, this scenario has played out countless times before my very eyes.
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d500neil
Posted 2009-02-26 8:14 PM (#165022 - in reply to #165019)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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So, your scenario has Mr. Gammel being so stupidly in love (and who could blame him, after all, for that?) with his
defective-Dodge that he turns-in a less-than-1-year-old car, and doesn't ask for any financial consideration, other
than to ask the dealership to pay-off the remainder of his existing car loan, so that he could pay, in effect, the full MSRP , for
the current year's model?

Seems reasonable to me (not).




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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-02-26 10:57 PM (#165032 - in reply to #165022)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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The mystery may never be solved! I did talk to Charles, son of Harry and Freda - and second owner of the car - tonight. I asked him if he remembered anything about the sale of the 1957 and the purchase of the 1958. Alas, he did not. He did say that the fin caps were on the car brand new. He also sent me an absolutely fantastic photo of the car and his dad...

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=24678&posts=1&mid=165031#M165031

Note to Neil - the wheels on this car are black!

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-02-27 2:16 AM (#165049 - in reply to #165022)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Location: Parts Unknown
d500neil - 2009-02-27 5:14 PM

So, your scenario has Mr. Gammel being so stupidly in love (and who could blame him, after all, for that?) with his
defective-Dodge that he turns-in a less-than-1-year-old car, and doesn't ask for any financial consideration, other
than to ask the dealership to pay-off the remainder of his existing car loan, so that he could pay, in effect, the full MSRP , for
the current year's model?

Seems reasonable to me (not).


********************************

What was a better alternative in 1958 ?

Go f*ck himself ?

He may have paid full retail for the balance, but he got the other one paid for at full retail and what was probably just as important, ... it was out of his hair !

****************************

Let's take this the other way ....

Why would someone buy a new car, virtually IDENTICAL to the one they already own, and in the process add $2,000 to their debt load ?

That was a butt load of dollars back then .... close to enough to buy a new Chevy ragtop straight up for cash !

By your reasoning, the Gammels did just that for no other reason than the 57 was "last year's model". 57 and 58 are too darned close in all aspects for this cowboy to get online with that kind of spending.

Maybe the Gammels were, as Darnell used the phrase ....

"Had money falling out their ass .... " and would throw it around like that (?)

In the bigger scheme of things, it seems to me those kind of spenders were the exception by a wide margin, not the rule.

I have a client (couple) that have bought 4 new Escalades in the past 6 years, not to mention the 500 SL kept for sunny days .... Yeah, ... some people have that kind of dough. Gammels kept their 58 for a very long time though. Why didn't they trade it in on a 59 or 60 ???

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d500neil
Posted 2009-02-28 3:13 PM (#165238 - in reply to #163766)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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I see the balance weights installed over those black wheels.

As Charlie's dad worked at, or owned (forget which) a service station, he knew something about auto performance;
it's very possible (probable, even) that Harry Gammel arranged to repaint the OEM eggshell wheels with the
'matching' black painted wheels.

We do know that every 58 Dodge (and other Mopes) got only the eggshell wheels on them. So, unless there is some
factory literature in existence.... (similar to that, for the optional carpeting which Craig's 57 Firesweep received, as discussed
elsewhere on this message board)....confirming the black-painting of those wheels, the only logical conclusion from seeing them, in the photo, is that someone, post-OEM, custom painted the wheels in black.

Brent, I appreciate a counter-argument as much (probably more, in fact) than the next guy, but I don't believe that your argument about the de facto financial stupidity of the displeased turn-in new car buyer is a logical premise, upon which to base your argument.

"I'm so pissed off at this lemon-mobile, that I bought from you, that, not only am I gonna make you pay-off my loan balance,
and, I'm gonna FORCE you to sell me ANOTHER new car, for full MSRP cost, and, I'm gonna PAY you $600.00-cash, down
payment on the new car."

Yeah, that sounds about right (not).......






Edited by d500neil 2009-02-28 3:15 PM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-03-12 9:00 PM (#166788 - in reply to #165238)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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d500neil - 2009-02-28 1:13 PM

I see the balance weights installed over those black wheels.

As Charlie's dad worked at, or owned (forget which) a service station, he knew something about auto performance;
it's very possible (probable, even) that Harry Gammel arranged to repaint the OEM eggshell wheels with the
'matching' black painted wheels.

We do know that every 58 Dodge (and other Mopes) got only the eggshell wheels on them. So, unless there is some
factory literature in existence.... (similar to that, for the optional carpeting which Craig's 57 Firesweep received, as discussed
elsewhere on this message board)....confirming the black-painting of those wheels, the only logical conclusion from seeing them, in the photo, is that someone, post-OEM, custom painted the wheels in black.



That's absurd!
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d500neil
Posted 2009-03-13 1:07 AM (#166805 - in reply to #166788)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Excuse me: what is absurd?
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-03-15 12:48 AM (#167022 - in reply to #166788)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Ok, so I have a photo of the car that the original owner's son says was taken in 1958.

As I see it, there are two possibilities:

either 1) Mr. Gammel replaced or altered the original wheels within the first year he purchased the car; or 2) the original wheels were black. Although you say it is probable that Mr. Gammel replaced or altered the wheels, that seems very unlikely to me. Your assumption is that Mr. Gammel purchased a new car and sometime within the first year of ownership decided to take the tires off the wheels, paint or replace the wheels, and then put the tires back on. The other case assumes he did absolutely nothing to his brand new car. Usually, not always, the simplest explanation is true.

Secondly, you state that we know that every '58 Dodge came with white wheels. Do we? It is a known fact that wheel covers were optional on Coronets. Frankly, I do not believe that a Coronet equipped with standard hubcaps and black wall tires would come with white wheels - aesthetically, that makes no sense at all (here, the Coronets are used to illustrate that there were probably other wheel colors, we know that the Gammel Dodge is a Royal). Need factory literature? Here you are - a Life advertising photograph from 1957 - clearly showing black wheels on no less than a Custom Royal! Did many '58s come with white wheels? Yes. Were black wheels available for Dodge? Yes (if they were available in 1957, they were available in 1958 - this does not require a giant leap of faith). Did the Gammel Dodge have black wheels from the factory? The evidence says, in all likelihood, yes. Case closed. Were other wheel colors available? I do not know.



Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-03-15 1:14 AM




(data plate 002.jpg)



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d500neil
Posted 2009-03-15 10:11 PM (#167131 - in reply to #167022)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Actually, the full wheel covers were optional on all 57 Dodges.

The full wheelcovers were included as part of one option group, and the spinners were included as part of another
option group.

The full wheelcovers and the spinners were available, individually, as options.

the dog dish wheel covers were standard equipment on all models except for the D501, which had 15" wheels, and, in
that case, the 1956 doggies or the 1956 spinners were installed on them.

Cars that got the doggies got BODY painted wheels.

All others (not absolutely sure about the 15" 501's, but we're not discussing them, here) got the eggshell colored wheels.

I can post here a photo of a 57 CRL, which was taken around 1957, where the owner custom painted the car's fins, and painted
its wheels 'black'.

That photo 'proves' nothing, other than to show that people DID customize their cars, even when they were new.

There is ALL kinds of inaccurate advertising showing 'painted' wheels on the 57 Dodges, and, I'm GLAD of that, as it could
be lamely-argued that the 57's "should" have painted wheels---in FACT, when I bought my car, in 10/80, it had had the
prior-original owner's having painted its wheels red; unfortunately, its spare wheel (which was a leftover good condition OEM
unit) was still painted in good ol' eggshell.

My car had been brought out of many year's dead-storage, which helped to explain its having survived northern Indiana,
after the original owner died. The wheels had obviously been painted red a long time ago.

I painted the remaining OEM wheel red, in 1981.

At least, in 1958 (you poor guys!), Dodge refrained from depicting the wheels in any other color BUT the corporate-eggshell,
so you-guys don't even have a LAME excuse for painting your cars' wheels anything BUT eggshell (like we-all do have, in 1957!).

As Dodge did not provide body-colored wheels on any cars NOT having the dog dish wheels, in 1957, any such car having
the non-eggshell wheels must have had them be painted in the aftermarket.

So, unfortunately, your argument is 100% wrong, unless Mr. Gammel's car had been built with dog dish wheels on it, and, IIRC,
(I'll go back and look at the wheels after I get done, here) the wheels' color is noticibly different from the car's OEM body color,
so, the wheels' paint got applied sometime AFTER the car left the factory.





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d500neil
Posted 2009-03-15 10:20 PM (#167132 - in reply to #167131)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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OMG; are we talking about Gammel's 1958 car (photo)?

It's been a while since I've thought about this thread.

If he's got a 1958 Dodge, with 'black' wheels, he'd better have bought the car with 'doggies' on it, or else he painted
the wheels, to highlight the appearance of those spinner wheelcovers on it, by the time that the photo was taken of it.




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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-03-16 4:23 PM (#167205 - in reply to #167132)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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I don't buy it. How were advertising photographs inaccurate? I can certainly understand the illustrations being off, but the photos? They didn't have photoshop back then. In fact, they went through unbelievable lenghts to get the "white chrome" effect in advertising photos. Why would an advertising company paint the wheels a different color for a photograph?

No, I have supplied a Chrysler Corporation-sanctioned photo of black wheels on a 1957 Dodge (which you requested) and shown a photo of a 1958 Dodge (in 1958!) with black wheels. This is ample evidence to state that black wheels are correct for either year.

You will need to provide in this public forum for all to view a notarized statement from Virgil Exner himself that unequivocally mandates eggshell white paint for all 1958 Dodge wheels. We can then have the Notary Public shown join the forums and verify that the statement is real. You will also need to supply dated factory photographs from each day of production in each assembly plant that show wheel racks with nothing but eggshell white wheels on them in order to prove your point.

Otherwise, your theory is clearly contrary to the supplied evidence and therefore must be flawed.
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d500neil
Posted 2009-03-16 6:26 PM (#167215 - in reply to #167205)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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As I mentioned, a while ago, on another thread, around here, somewhere, back in Toledo, a neighbor-man owned the "Graphic
Arts of Ohio" company, which served many corporate clients in creating the visual advertising that appeared in magazines
and cereal boxes, etcetcetc...

His company would either piece-together an illustration (like a car against a certain background) or would physically create
an illustration, like some cereal 'floating' in a pond of Elmer's Glue All---they could legally do that because that which was being
advertised was the CEREAL, and not the 'milk', and Elmers is very bouyant, bright-white, and opaque (when wet).

I specifically recall his showing me, when I happened to tour the place, one day, how his company was creating the box-art for
Vanilla (as it was called, then) Wafers.

His company would routinely change a car's , or, any item's, colors and trim to suit the desires of the client.

Look closely at almost any color illustration of an automobile and you will see certain clear evidence of the car's having been
sandwiched into the illustration, with typically the bottoms of the tires being shaded into the ground or with shadows (if any)
which don't match the appearance of the apparent sunshine in the illustration's background, or, with a shadow being
added to the photo, to create a highlight or to (try to) match the background's shadowing.

Commercial advertising is called "ephemera", which means that it is not designed or intended to have a lasting effect, or even, to be necessarily accurate (viz: the use of Elmer's glue, to advertise cereal).

Some of the factory's pre-production photos, taken at the Proving Grounds or outside the Styling Center, DO show cars
with body-colored wheels on them.

Unfortunately, it was apparently decided that, unless a car was built with the small dog-dish hubcaps, the car would be built
with having only the eggshell colored wheels on them.

And, in fact, in virtually all real-world photographs of non-dog-dish 1957-1958 Dodges that I've seen, the wheels were painted in eggshell.

Even, my own car could have been (and WAS!) photographed after its eggshell wheels had been painted
red ; this would have occurred sometime pre-1970, when it was placed into dead-storage.

Gammel's car could have been sold with doggies, or its wheels could have been painted, after it left the factory. Heck, the dealership might have painted the wheels, unilaterally [not likely, but possible] or at the buyer's request,
or, Mr. Gammel could have arranged for the wheels to be painted, or, even, those wheels might NOT have been on the car when he bought it.

As an example of the OEM-eggshell wheels, I present to you the original-surviving all black, with red interior, and black top, 1957 CRL convertible, as seen at the bottom message on page-1 of the "57 Heaven" thread, on the Craigslist Board.

If ANY car were EVER to have received body-colored wheels, it would be a top-of-the-line CRL convertible, in black-and-red motif.

As my freshman Psych professor said, when discussing the probability for ghosts to exist : "show me one, and I'll consider its existence."

So, instead of proffering a vintage photo, which, unfortunately does not confirm that that car left the factory with 'colored' wheels, I say : show me a car, on a factory lot, or, even at a dealership, with colored wheels, and I'll amend my never-say-never statement about full-wheelcover-cars having only eggshell colored wheels on them.

I could plaster this thread with vintage 1957-1958 dealership photos, from the Dodge Reporter in-house newspaper, but, they all will show cars having the eggshell colored wheels on them.

Now; go take a look at that surviving all-black CRL convertible, with its eggshell colored wheels.







Edited by d500neil 2009-03-16 7:05 PM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-03-16 11:31 PM (#167249 - in reply to #167215)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Well, the Gammel Dodge did come with spinner wheel covers, that much is shown in the broadcast sheet. I do not disagree that egshell white wheels were very popular and my Royal sedan has a set of the eggshell wheels intact. Indeed, backdrops were often transposed onto the foreground as the advertising photo of the 1957 Dodge shows.

However, that still is a "real world" photograph of a 1957 Dodge and most certainly a "real world" photo of the Gammel Dodge, and both have black wheels. I believe the Gammel Dodge was assembled at the Hamatrmk (sp?) plant where 3/4 of all 1958 Dodges were produced. Although possible that somebody looked at these two cars and said (snap of fingers) "paint those wheels black, I don't like the eggshell white wheels that match the wide whites and hide the fact that those spinners are less than full wheel covers!" I sincerely doubt it. The much more simple explanation remains: there were black wheels at the factory.

That seems like a logical reason for the white wheels: to hide the fact that they did not have full wheel covers. If you ordered black wall tires on your Dodge, why have white wheels? With that reasoning, you would want black wheels around, again to disguise the not-quite full wheel cover!

Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-03-16 11:37 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2009-03-17 9:21 PM (#167351 - in reply to #167249)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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That is a real world (or not!) photograph of a PRE-PRODUCTION model.

This car was clearly never photographed at any boat 'dock' area.

God, I hate to bust anyone's chops, here, but, look closely at the front fender, and tell me what you see....

BTW, this car has appeared in several factory brochures, including the "Ladies" brochure.

This car probably got crushed, back at the factory, when they were done with its advertising work.

I could also show/tell you-all something veddy-innerestink about the red/white "Royal" 2-dr
HT that was photographed at the Charlemoix rail road station....

Oh, WTH: I'll tell you, anyway: in one of the factory-brochure photos, you can see that that
car has NO VIN tag attached to its dog-leg pillar; it, too, was a pre-production photo-mule
car (with air-brushed red-painted wheels on it).

Now, go tell me what you see on the 2-tone blue car's fender.






Edited by d500neil 2009-03-17 9:27 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-03-17 11:58 PM (#167368 - in reply to #164738)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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I see high velocity impact blood spatter, clearly tying this car to the murder. Call Paul Drake !
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d500neil
Posted 2009-03-18 2:55 PM (#167400 - in reply to #167368)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Ok.....just wanted ya-ll to have the opportunity to say :"I knew that!"

This car, and quite a few pre-production 'mules' have the 1956 "Custom Royal" emblems on them.

Either the 1956 style was originally intended to be carry-over items, or, the 1957-style was not yet available (probably,
the former reason) when the cars were photographed and the advertising was finalized.

There is a Dodge News magazine (the one with L. Welk's face on the cover) which even features a CRL, looking identical to
'this' car, which has the Coro/Roy plain-lower-bumpers "depicted" on it.

That illustration is the only one that I have ever seen, which has a CRL being shown as wearing non-CRL lower bumpers, altho
there are several factory illustrations, and/or photographs, which show 'Royal' models wearing the CRL lower bumpers on
them.

There is a very widely distributed set of 8x10" BxW photographs, showing a very-early prototype CRL, which has 'Royal'
badging on it, and which has a 3-tone paint job (the roof appearing to be very-dark blue/black-ish), and which
has 1956 carpeting, and other pre-production stuff, like a generic/proto aircleaner and radiator, and which has a PLY-type
spare tire location (near to the bumper, instead of up by the rear seat).

Oh, yeah: and it has body-painted wheels on it, too.







Edited by d500neil 2009-03-18 4:15 PM
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Rebels-59
Posted 2009-03-22 5:16 AM (#167906 - in reply to #167400)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

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d500neil - 2009-03-18 6:55 PM

There is a Dodge News magazine (the one with L. Welk's face on the cover) which even features a CRL, looking identical to
'this' car, which has the Coro/Roy plain-lower-bumpers "depicted" on it.

That illustration is the only one that I have ever seen, which has a CRL being shown as wearing non-CRL lower bumpers, altho
there are several factory illustrations, and/or photographs, which show 'Royal' models wearing the CRL lower bumpers on
them.



From NEIL...........

....................

http://cgi.ebay.com/1957-Dodge-Magazine-Lawrence-Welk_W0QQitemZ3701...

I don't know if this particular "Custom Royal" was created with the
Royal/Coronet lower bumpers, or whether they
were added on, in the advertising-agency's office, but, this car has
1956 "Custom Royal" fender name plates, so it
MIGHT have had the 'wrong' bumpers on it, as well......

...and, btw, this looks to be a real photograph of the car, apparently
taken at the Chrysler Proving Grounds, in Chelsea, Michigan.



(57.jpg)



(58.jpg)



(59.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 57.jpg (73KB - 212 downloads)
Attachments 58.jpg (79KB - 215 downloads)
Attachments 59.jpg (83KB - 206 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2011-03-26 11:54 AM (#265999 - in reply to #167906)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Location: The Mile High City
Had to bump this up because Bengt and I are talking about it in the Rocky Mountain Region.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-03-27 8:11 AM (#266083 - in reply to #265999)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



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Location: Parts Unknown
I still say Mr. Gammel killed Col. Mustard in the kitchen with the candlestick !

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57burb
Posted 2011-04-23 11:30 PM (#269765 - in reply to #266083)
Subject: Re: Gammel Dodge



Expert

Posts: 3786
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Location: DFW, TX
A pretty significant change for 1958 was the new 350ci engine with D500 option... which this car has. It might be a clue as to why the owner would trade his near-new '57 in for it.
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