|
|
Expert
Posts: 1288
  
| Fairfield Collectibles has just offered a 1:24 scale blue/white '60 Fury decked out with Lee Petty's #42. One version is available with Richard's autograph (his number, of course, is 43) and another is without the autograph. Supposedly, both have "the wired 325 hp V-8 to the detailed interior and authentic sponsor logos." Since I not only followed the Petty's NASCAR exploits back then, but also my current Big-Tailed Beast is blue/white (though with the ram engine rather than the single 4V carb allowed by NASCAR), I had to order one. We'll see what it looks like when it gets here.
Incidentally, I believe King Richard's original No. 43 '60 Fury, "Thumper I," or a reasonable facsimile, has been restored and still exists in North Carolina.
Joe Godec
'57 Chrysler 300C (is there really any other 300C?), 60 Fury SonoRamic, '65 Fuelie Vette |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3967
 
Location: DFW, TX | Joe, the model sounds great, keep us posted. I thought you might like this picture.
 (l_petty.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 l_petty.jpg (75KB - 337 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 7402
Location: northern germany | i believe the 60s he raced were belvederes not furys. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1288
| Sid --
The car in North Carolina with Richard's #43 on it is a 2-dr h/t with the "Sky-High" rear window standard on Furys, though it was an option on Belvederes. Curtis Redcap's "Insider's History of Plymouth" and "What Came First, the Plymouth or the Petty?" both give the 1960 models as Furys. However, in the "MOPARwiki" web site, #43 appears to be a "low-window" Belvedere.
Quite definitely, racing the higher-priced Fury on the shoe-string budgets of those early days does seem a bit of a stretch, especially since the aerodymanics of both cars are identical, plus holding that big rear window in place at high speeds would be a problem. But I have also heard/read that Plymouth delivered the cars to them, so the company may have been trying to further the Fury image as a performance car.
Just for my personal interests, I'll go with the Fury, but I very well might be holding on to legend rather than fact.
Burb --
I have that box (albeit empty) and, again, that one looks like a Belvedere.
Joe
Edited by Sonoramic60 2010-01-28 4:19 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 7402
Location: northern germany | joe,
the car in NC is a clone. as a 60 fury driver i'd love em to be furys too but all the old pics i've seen so far show the small window cars. probably because they were a couple of pounds lighter and didn't have the holes for the stone shields? mopars never had the popping back window problems the GM cars had. and i can attest they do not lose the sky high rear window above 150 
do you believe the petty cars were regular purchased, stripped production cars? i don't think so. i believe they were special cars send to them free of charge. not sure. do they show up in the production records? they were all 383 golden commando (single 4bbl) cars.
Edited by 1960fury 2010-02-01 8:23 AM
|
|
| |
|
Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | From NEIL...
Well, let's see what "40 Years of Stock Car Racing" has
to say (nothing, really) and show about the 1960
Plymouths that were campaingned by the Pettys:
 (117.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
117.jpg (110KB - 318 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1288
| Sid --
Neil's pic sure seems to indicate they were Belvederes as does the one I quoted above. Curtis Redcap says the Plymouth delivered the cars to the Petty's so I tend to agree there was some special deal, especially since the Valiant was set to do some high-speed NASCAR stuff that year. Perhaps Plymouth just said they were Furys for the publicity.
I have always suspected that restored Fury is a clone as I don't think that rear window could stay in at speed, especially since they drove with the side windows down.
BTW, did you know Richard Petty married Cotton Owens daughter?
Joe |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1812
Location: Slidell La. | The Wheaties box shows white and the black and white appears to be blue (doesn t look white ). The restored car is blue . By 1960 the Pettys were a big name in Nascar , so I would bet that Plymouth gave their cars to them .
Looks like the Fury window in this one .
Edited by narleycharlie 2010-02-03 11:00 AM
 (60PlyPetty.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
60PlyPetty.jpg (58KB - 905 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The way that racers went thru their cars, Richard's car, above here, is almost certainly a clone (imho).
Note that it has the 2-tone effect that the real-cars didn't have on them.
Looks like its got Goodyear Blue Streaks on it, though.
PLY did provide cars/parts at 'wholesale' prices, as direct factory sponsorship was still a no-no, in the early 60's.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1288
| The Petty car arrived today and I think it looks pretty neat, even though it is only 1/24 scale (I prefer the greater detail on 1/18 scale). The best thing about it is that it is a '60 and is something to counter the Charger, RoadRunner, Max-Wedge, and 426 Hemi guys who think all Chrysler products before 1962 were flat-head sixes.
Joe Godec |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 7402
Location: northern germany | Sonoramic60 - 2010-02-03 10:09 AM
BTW, did you know Richard Petty married Cotton Owens daughter?
Joe
no didn't know that! i wonder if they used her to spy on the cotton owens team |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 249
Location: Spencerport, New York | Carrera makes a nice 60 Fury slot car in 1/32 scale and there are several colors available including a Petty race car version. |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I bought one of the Carrera's and am kit-bashing it, to use its wheels and its complete roll-bar'ed interior
to help customize a 1962 1/32 Eldon Fury, which is being made into a convertible (to show off the Carrera interior/
driver) and which is having its wheelbase be lengthened and its wheel wells re-located, to make Mr. Eldon look
more a a real-car, and less like a toy-version.
Chassis is a Revell ladder-type, with a small 'can' motor.
Gonna be dark blue over light blue, with Petty decals.
...I see I'm down to having only 3-stars, again.
Edited by d500neil 2010-02-23 9:12 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown | I have seen pics of them in two-tone . . .
 (Lee-P.jpg)
 (Richard-P.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
Lee-P.jpg (33KB - 1643 downloads)
Richard-P.jpg (10KB - 848 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
| Interesting thread...... They built only 7 Belvedere 2 d.r hardtops with a golden Commando 383 engine. Out of the seven, one is twilight blue metallic with white, was delivered to the Atlanta region and was equipped with 383 4 bbl, torqueflite, 2.93 ratio, ps, pb, HD brakes, HD suspension. Makes you wonder if this was the car in the photos???
Jim
Edited by CustomRoyal 2013-01-28 9:19 PM
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 255
Location: Dunnellon, FL | Joe, I went to the Fairfield site and couldn't find it. Was this a special edition or something? |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
| Al
It was in Darrell Davis's book under 383 Golden Commandos. There were so few built its easy to see that car.
Jim |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 654
Location: NC | The '60 Plymouth that the Petty's drove in the Daytona 500 were hardtops with the low/small rear window. Later photos that I have also show the small rear window. The engine was a 383 that was the RB version of the 383. Wheels were from a 1955 Cadillac. The Daytona car did not have the white "sport tone" color in the front fender as did some of the later cars. Chrysler did provide the cars and parts to the factory racers. Remember that the Petty clan did use Plymouths and Dodges in the early 50s and in '59 even tho Lee won the 500 in an Olds. The car that is pictured in an earlier post(by narleycharly) w/Richard leaning on it is probably the clone that Jim Vandiver commissioned Kim H in Gastonia, NC to build. I went with the builder to High Point, NC to look for the 55 Caddy wheels at a junk yard. This car was featured in a stock car racing magazine in the late 90s. I had that car brought to Shelby, NC on 11-1-96 to be put on display while Richard was at the country club meeting with supporters for his run for a NC state office,( treasurer I think). He later came out to the fairgrounds to meet with the public. He had his Pontiac race car there and the '60 Plymouth got more attention that the Pontiac. I have a pix of me with the Plymouth. Back in those days on the race cars the doors opened, cars had to have some factory upholstery (door trim panels, drivers seat) and the Petty cars had a 12 volt fan bolted to the pass side floor to blow air on the driver. Kim had a fan in the floor of the clone but I never remembered to quiz him about it. Good memories!
Edited by mopardave 2013-01-29 8:24 PM
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
| Sounds like a great time! |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2119
Location: atlanta | Great story, wish i coulda been there, the rb 383, is that the 59 only motor? did they use it because of the stroke and smaller bore, there musta been some sort of advantage. Most people don't even realize there was an rb 383, wonder why it wasn't carried over for more years? |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Way back (Mr. Peabody)... in 2010, Gnarly Charley hypothesized that "by 1960" the Pettys were
receiving their race cars for-free from Plymouth.
On 12/13/55, Dodge arranged to give Lee Petty a free 1956 D500-1 race car, for the current NASCAR
season.
Although not confirmed ( I guess I could write to Petty Enterprises...hmmmm), a NASCAR article in
the 4/57 Speed Age confirmed that Dodge was in negotiations: "....Dodge bigwigs have approached
one [un-identified] top Grand national driver with the idea of organizing a racing stable [ to
campaign the 1957 D501 race car, that Dodge had de-facto created for Kiekaefer's usage]".
This article was prepared sometime after Kiekaefer's decision not to participate in the 1957 NASCAR season,
and K,'s abandonment of his organized racing activities is also discussed within this same "Stock Report"
article, by Sandy Grady.
In 1956, Lee Petty's free-Dodge earned him a 4th place, overall finish, out of 50 total points-winners
and with him starting 46 races, and winning 2, with 17 top-5, and 27 top-ten finishes, and with him
earning $15,337.08 for his efforts, which would be about $225,000.00 today.
For comparison, the overall winner, Buck baker, entered 48 races, winning 14 of them, and received (only-) $34,076.35, which would be about $500,000.00 today.
In 1957, Petty started out racing his 56 Dodge, but soon developed his own 57 Oldsmobuik. He again finished 4th overall, entering 41 races, but winning 4 of them, and earning $18,325.28 for his troubles.
BTW, Petty's 56 Dodge's paint scheme is White on the roof and middle/saddle-areas, with Tropical Coral on its
lower area.
Edited by d500neil 2013-01-29 9:04 PM
 (PICT0388.JPG)
Attachments
----------------
PICT0388.JPG (58KB - 267 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 654
Location: NC | The story continues: The 383 RB was a 2 year engine. It had the 3.75" stroke like a 413. The RB 383 was in the '59 & '60 Chrysler Saratoga & Windsor. Not sure of the advantage but I suspect that the low end torque a longer stroke engine might have coming out of the turns was a factor. Don't know enough about the friction factor a larger bore might present. In '61 the Petty Clan turned to the 413. The clone '60 has the large rear window. The next part of this story is almost beyond believing. I was looking for a 60 Fury 2 dr ht to restore. I saw one in Hemmings in '94 located in Colorado. I called the guy, we talked, he was way too high and the xportation to NC was astronomical, I asked for pix. They came in the mail (real pix by real mail), red Fury painted black, no glass anywhere, no radiator and I think no hood. I waited a while and then called the guy to offer him $900.00 and arrange my own transportation. He says "too late I sold it to a guy in NC and it's already gone".
Broken hearted, I walked out to the car lot to smoke ( no more) and as the door closed behind me I see a car transporter going east on US 74 with a red '60 Fury that had been painted black, no glass, no hood and no radiator. I go in and call the guy in CO again and told him that I had seen 'My car" going east on hwy 74 and ask where the car was going and who bought it. He wud not say. Next morning (Thursday) my brother calls me from Gastonia, NC and says "guess what I saw in the Gaston Mall parking lot last night". I answered him with exactly what I had seen going down the road beside the dealership. My bro & his wife had been out to to dinner and had taken a short cut across the mall parking lot and saw the car on the bed of the transporter. He had stopped and talked with the guy and got his name,etc. The name Kim H. sounded familiar. One week to the day I sat straight up in bed in the middle of the night saying out loud "I know that guy". I had bought some radio control airplane stuff from his Dads estate and Kim was there overseeing the proceedings. I had his number because of the RC stuff and I called him. He told me of the efforts of the former nascar driver J. Vandiver to locate and restore a Petty car. Kim knew that I was heartbroken and I was invited over to see the car and visit anytime I wanted to see it. It was at this time that I found out about the RB 383. Sometimes one does not know as much as one thinks one knows. So having learned the lesson that: it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think that you are stupid than it is to open you mouth and dispel any doubt" Some of the parts on the clone are from a 'real '61 Petty race car. I ended up with an upper and lower control arm from the '61 with some real Petty Blue paint.
Pardon me for not using Kim H. last name. He is not a public figure as are the Petty's and Jim Vandiver.
Edited by mopardave 2013-01-29 9:27 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2119
Location: atlanta | Well, I don't mean to rub salt in the wound, but I think that car was trying to say "I'm over here, save me, I know you'll take care of me" I guess some things are meant to be, did ya ever find your Fury? By the way, a red 60 Fury painted black has a familiar ring to it!
Edited by fenix 2013-01-29 10:38 PM
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 654
Location: NC | Yes, I saw yours and I'm jealous. I did finally get 2 Plymouths, one was a Fury 2dr ht big window, a Belvedere 2dr ht small glass from a guy in Mass who says they had surface rust (Hemmings and several phone calls). I took a roll back to Long Valley, NJ to pick them up at one our customers locations. He ( our customer) had taken it upon his company to pick the 2 cars up in Newton,MA and bring them to Long Valley for me to get. The cars were so rusted out that if he was not one of our customers and had not done what he did for me, I would have left them in NJ for the iron worms to finish the job. So, no I did not get to re-create/embellish the '60 Fury that I had new in '60. I had a 4dr 318. I wanted a 2 dr ht, Oyster white with Blue top and Sport tone inserts and the incomparable GOLDEN COMMANDO 395. I sold the cars but my dream of hearing a GC 395 start and accelerate from 0 to anything, WOT, still lives on. It's like an organism, it never gets old! I'll be 73 in a week or and I can still feel the thrill of the hot Fwd Look cars that I got to drive from 58 to 63.
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 181
Location: Bethlehem GA | This is an interesting thread. One thing I would like to see since I have never noticed it before is the difference in windows. Does someone have a picture of the difference in the big window vs small window car. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 654
Location: NC | 60 Buick, Look at the 5th post in this thread and you'll see 2 60 race cars with the smaller back glass |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1288
| Gentlemen (and/or Ladies) --
An interesting discussion, especially since an old Ramcharger did tell me about the RB-383s in a few '60 Plymmers. Since I was a "straight line" guy then, I never gave it a thought that those RBs would help coming out of the turns. I thought they were only for the quarter-mile stuff. I guess since I was just a snot-nosed kid then, you can understand my lousy reasoning.
How much would NASCAR allow for an over-bore? The NHRA over-bore of 0.03" in those days on a a 3.75" stroke engine would definitely give more displacement than the same over-bore on an engine with a 3.38" stroke.
Joe
PS, BTW, Have you seen the new Sun-Star '60s? It looks like they're even coming out with a 2-dr h/t! Too bad that neither has the SonoRamic Commando which really gives the car its wild look. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 654
Location: NC | Using the formula: bore X bore X stroke X 6.2832= cubic inch displacement
4.03 X 4.03 X 3.75 X 6.2832= 382.6680 or 383
I don't know or can't recall what the allowances were back then, but now they are very strict on the 358.000 c.i. limit. Back in the 50s,60s, every mfg had a different engine size but I feel sure that there were oversize limits. In 2009, an independent racer, Carl Long, who drove a Dodge, bought a used, rebuilt engine from Ernie Elliott that was .17 ci over sized. NASCAR fined Carl $200,000.00 even tho it was not his fault and Ernie didn't help out. Carl couldn't/wudn't pay and was suspended and I don't think he ever ran in the Cup series again. If I came up with with a .17 ci measurement difference I would think that I had made a mistake and keep my mouth shut. Using the 383 as an example the cid with .17 added would be 382.8380 In '83 Petty had an engine 24 ci too large (358 was the limit then too). It was his 198th win. He was fined the $ and the points but kept the win.
I will have to check out the 60 Fury ht.
Checked out and I'll have one of the turquoise/white models. I'll have to remove the fender shirts. My 60 didn't have skirts.
Edited by mopardave 2013-02-01 11:08 AM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3034
Location: N.W. Fla. | mopardave - 2013-02-01 9:58 AM
Using the formula: bore X bore X stroke X 6.2832= cubic inch displacement
4.03 X 4.03 X 3.75 X 6.2832= 382.6680 or 383
I don't know or can't recall what the allowances were back then, but now they are very strict on the 358.000 c.i. limit. Back in the 50s,60s, every mfg had a different engine size but I feel sure that there were oversize limits. In 2009, an independent racer, Carl Long, who drove a Dodge, bought a used, rebuilt engine from Ernie Elliott that was .17 ci over sized. NASCAR fined Carl $200,000.00 even tho it was not his fault and Ernie didn't help out. Carl couldn't/wudn't pay and was suspended and I don't think he ever ran in the Cup series again. If I came up with with a .17 ci measurement difference I would think that I had made a mistake and keep my mouth shut. Using the 383 as an example the cid with .17 added would be 382.8380 In '83 Petty had an engine 24 ci too large (358 was the limit then too). It was his 198th win. He was fined the $ and the points but kept the win.
I will have to check out the 60 Fury ht.
Checked out and I'll have one of the turquoise/white models. I'll have to remove the fender shirts. My 60 didn't have skirts. .17 is a huge overbore, unless you meant .0017. Late 60s/early 70s the limit was 427. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3034
Location: N.W. Fla. | mopardave - 2013-01-29 11:09 PM
It's like an organism, it never gets old!
??? |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 654
Location: NC | I meant to say .17 cubic inch, less than one cubic inch over size. Yes a .17 overbore makes it a 415 ci
Edited by mopardave 2013-02-01 12:03 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1288
| I just receieved a catalogue from the Fairfield guys and in it they are offering a '60 Fury 2-dr h/t as well as the vert. Unfortunately, Dave, the h/t also has skirts, but at least it doesn't have those dopey wire wheels.
You might find it interesting that I put chrome skirts on the car I had in '60-'64. I remember they cost me a whole $19.95 and lasted about four months before they disappeared. The replacement pair were gone in about the same amount of time and my insurance company said they weren't going to pay for any more. So, I put "baby moons" on the beast.
The pair I have on my current Big-Tailed Beast cost $150, but since now there is a dearth of '60 Furys I don't worry about them turning up on somebody else's car.
Joe |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2119
Location: atlanta | Dearth?, okay, I had to look that one up, I'm not a brainiac, but i don't think i have ever heard that word before, well maybe at the bank when she wouldn't cash my check because of some kind of "dearth", now i know what she was talking about, My account!  |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Heard back, today, from the Petty Museum archivist, and it was NOT Lee Petty whom Dodge had contacted, in 1956, to
take over Dodge's racing program/stable that Carl Kiekaefer had abandoned, prior to NASCAR's 1957 season.
Wonder whom it was, who turned down Dodge's offer?
Bummer, though; it must have been an offer that he COULD refuse.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2119
Location: atlanta | What's your best guess as to who turned them down? |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 654
Location: NC | It looks like almost everybody turned them down. An example: In 57 there were two Chrysler Corp cars entered in the Race at Darlington Southern 500. In the '58 Southern 500 there was one 58 Ply and one 57 Dodge (Cotton Owens). Not good. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2119
Location: atlanta | Mopar1 - 2013-02-01 11:16 AM mopardave - 2013-01-29 11:09 PM
It's like an organism, it never gets old!
???
Don't know what an organism is? I found one in the back seat of my mom's 55 Plymouth, uh, it was mine too!
Edited by fenix 2013-02-04 10:12 PM
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | My best-guess WAS Lee Petty...really bummed out about being informed that it wasn't Lee whom Dodge had contacted, to
start a racing 'stable', for the 57 season.
Cotton Owens was the Big Dodge Boy owner in the mid-60's, and he was active in the 50's, so he is a prospect...
It would have taken some semi-big-bux to start a racing team, even in the 50's; most racers were owner-drivers.
Seems like Dodge probably offered very little, in re: monetary support, to whomever it did contact, in the spring-summer
of 1956.
I've checked with the Detroit Public Library's archivist, to see if there was anything published about Kiekaefer's 'official'
decision to get out of NASCAR sponsorship, but, have been informed by her that she could find no such 'public' (published-)
pronouncements.
S.O.T./others: do any of y'all, of the 300-persuasion, know when K. "officially" announced his getting out of NASCAR?
The reasons for his NASCAR abandonment are well documented...but WHEN did he make it known, publicly???
Back in the 50's, Dodge, et al, did not believe that Sunday racing successes translated into Monday sales successes.
Edited by d500neil 2013-02-05 12:31 AM
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 654
Location: NC | Fenix, You know about how words spelled the same way are pronounced differently and have different meanings. Lead- something in a pencil or taking me to the right place. ORGAN-ISM- The euphoric feeling that you have while listening to Jelani Eddington & David Walker playing L.M. Gottschalk's "Gran Tarantella" on a theater organ & grand piano. The real fact is that I misspelled the word. LOL |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | The Petty car is up for sale (although, I am sure it has been before?)
There is talk in the start of this thread that its a clone, but it does have a letter from Petty saying its the car he won 3 races in (2nd car) and that the first car no longer exists, which may explain the big/little window debate?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car...
|
|
| |
Petty's '60 Fury
