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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | GregCon - 2013-07-02 5:53 AM
Well.......that is an old trick, but it's a little 'off' for the fact that you have moved the flange of the front yoke off its register. The yoke is meant, I believe, to be centered by means of the contact on the OD, not the stud pattern.
The fact that your car is OK in terms if vibration is valid, but if you do this to 5 other cars they might shake due to an off-center condition.
Greg, I see your point, but time will tell on this one. Ron did his own car this way as well, no issues. The spacer was cut precisely the correct size and the stud holes were drilled in at precise measurements as well. |
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Location: Springville, CA | Again I ask if Greg has ever pulled a ball and trunnion u-joint off and seen the register on the back of the parking brake drum! |
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Location: Houston | Yes...I sure have. Are you ready to tell me it doesn't serve any purpose? |
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Location: Arizona | I've never seen the back of the drum and the "register". Anyone have a photo that shows it? Looking at the photos the aluminum disk doesn't seems to be just a flat disk so how does it sit flat on the register? Or was a pocket machined on the side that's not visible in the photos? |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | The aluminum disk is perfectly flat and seats right into the back of the drum where the trunnion housing would have originally seated.
Edited by imopar380 2013-07-04 3:11 PM
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Location: Arizona | Maybe I'm missing something but as I am picturing this it's the bolts that line everything up. In fact, and again, this is if I am picturing this correctly, it doesn't even matter if you drill the holes all that accurately in the aluminum plate, either they will be close enough for all the bolts to go thru or they won't. As long as you can get the bolts thru and get the aluminum plate reasonably well centered, it's all going to line up just the same as it did before since it's the bolts that make things line up. If there was some kind of "pilot" you couldn't get a flat plate in there and have it sit flat. |
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | jimntempe - 2013-07-04 12:29 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but as I am picturing this it's the bolts that line everything up. In fact, and again, this is if I am picturing this correctly, it doesn't even matter if you drill the holes all that accurately in the aluminum plate, either they will be close enough for all the bolts to go thru or they won't. As long as you can get the bolts thru and get the aluminum plate reasonably well centered, it's all going to line up just the same as it did before since it's the bolts that make things line up. If there was some kind of "pilot" you couldn't get a flat plate in there and have it sit flat.
The trunnion housing, or aluminum plate actually seats into a recess in the back of the brake drum, so yes it must be accurately drilled.
Edited by imopar380 2013-07-04 7:11 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | What they are saying is
The park brake drum has a recess (about 3/16") that the face of the B&T lightly presses into as you tighten up the bolts (nuts really).
This (I believe) is there to help keep the B&T centred and also help prevent the studs in the drum from breaking from any side load.
When the 1/4" disc is fitted, the B&T will be moved back towards the diff by 1/4" (obviously), moving the balls in there sockets to an un worn
part
The balls will only get back to the worn part for a second every so often on suspention re bound, no problem there.
The bolts (studs) would be exactly in the right spot as the B&T holes do not really give much wiggle room, but I dont think they are really there to line things up with, thats what the register in the drum is for.
As you said, the bolt holes on the disc could really be 3 times the size of the studs as they dont really matter (as long as it is still central for balance), the studs out of the drum are now locating the B&T centrally, the plate is only a spacer and really as long as it fits flat against the drum and the B&T it could be a square.
To be honest, I would use this to confirm a worn B&T before spending the big bucks (to replace it or modify to the 4x4 slip joint), but I would not be happy calling it fixed
Edited by ttotired 2013-07-04 7:18 PM
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Location: Arizona | I think I've got the complete picture now. So If I had a machine shop at my disposal that could handle 4"+ aluminum stock I could make proper disk that had it's own pilot on the front side and a recess on the backside and mimic the original "pilot" geometry. |
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Expert 5K+ Passed away 30th Sept 2024. You will be missed Chuck!
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | there is no pilot , the registry is a flat 4" dia. --------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: Perth Australia | Yep, but I think I would use steel for the hardness
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| I'm amazed how much effort and thought has gone into this hillbilly repair. Very entertaining. Can we get some technical illustrations?
Edited by rbmain 2013-07-05 4:42 AM
 (Breadcrumbs.jpg)
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 Breadcrumbs.jpg (61KB - 173 downloads)
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Expert 5K+ Passed away 30th Sept 2024. You will be missed Chuck!
Posts: 8954
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | don't you ever have any thing good to say ????????????????????????------------------------------------------------------------------------------much later |
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| OK, the good: It reportedly works, those involved are happy, those standing nearby are persuaded, and the photography was excellent. (Sooner or) Later
Edited by rbmain 2013-07-05 4:40 AM
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Location: Arizona | 60 dart - 2013-07-04 4:39 PM there is no pilot , the registry is a flat 4" dia. --------------------------------------------------later Pilot might not be quite the right word. But the sketch shows what I meant.
 (dual path spacer plate B&T.jpg)
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dual path spacer plate B&T.jpg (59KB - 197 downloads)
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Location: Houston | That would work but it would require a spacer of about 1/2" thickness, not 1/4". The diameter of the trunnion flange you show is smaller than in real life so you wouldn't have that generous shoulder to work with.
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dual.jpg (112KB - 189 downloads)
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Location: Houston | I should add that the 'old trick' guys used to do (I remember it particularly from Valiants and Darts) was to take one or two of the thin trunnion covers - the shield that goes on the end - then cut off the tabs to make shims out of them. This would only move the relationship a little, but it was enough the help 'some'. Back in the old days no one was getting anything machined-to-suit! |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | I've heard of using the trunnion shield covers before as well, with the tabs cut off. However, the 2 plates I had made cost me nothing - the sheet metal shop I deal with for work punched them out for me and didn't charge me when I explained what they were for, as the owner is somewhat of a car guy himself. There was no "machining" involved in the process. I gave the 2 plates to Ron ( owner of my ex-60 Polara) and he carefully marked and drilled the 4 mounting holes. So all in all I'm happy at this point and time will tell how long it lasts. :-)
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Walter passed away on Jul 29, 2014. We will miss you, Walt!
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Location: Heaven Above (Formerly Oklahoma City,OK) | rbmain - 2013-07-05 1:42 AM
OK, the good: It reportedly works, those involved are happy, those standing nearby are persuaded, and the photography was excellent. (Sooner or) Later
Chuck, I guess you could say that even with the sarcasm, it's a semi positive comment.
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Expert 5K+ Passed away 30th Sept 2024. You will be missed Chuck!
Posts: 8954
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i guess ! ---------------------- got my 3120 - 40 flange today , nice "tight" fit but wasn't expecting to see made in china on the box ---------------------------------------later |
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Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: So. Cal | Some of the information on this thread and others can be confusing. I'll try to clear it up:
The flange 2-2-349 is the correct smaller flange with a 2.875" bolt circle that fits many of the '55-'56 Dodge/Plymouth. It also fits the later slant 6 cars with 904 transmissions and probably the 3 speed manual trans as well, though I haven't tried it.
The correct large spicer flange looks to be out of production. I have an original from a truck, and I couldn't find anything from looking up the casting number. Others here have stated that it isn't listed in the catalog. But there is a reproduction flange made by Powertrain Industries, part no. 3102-40 for this with the proper 3.25" bolt circle. This is also used on the later 727 push button transmissions.
The other part number floating around 2-2-329 is incorrect and doesn't fit our vehicles...unless there is some application I don't know of that has a 3.125" bolt circle. |
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Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: So. Cal | The ball & trunion in my '61 Lancer wagon is worn out, causing it to vibrate and make a lot of noise. So I purchased a driveshaft from Fall Fling with a slip yolk to convert it. It didn't come with the flange though, so I purchased a new one for it cheaply from Ebay. It's the smaller one, sitting on top of the 727 e-brake. The other two are pictures of the larger flange. Notice that it's obvious from this picture that the pictures first posted in this thread are of the smaller flange. It isn't completely round like the larger flange is.
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Small & Large Yolk Flanges.jpg (128KB - 35 downloads)
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| that's a nice conversion... and its clean... I may need to do that. |
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Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
What do you think of this conversion (no names for now) 
 (RevisedDriveShaftShowingSlidingYokeAndSpicerTypeUJoint.jpg)
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RevisedDriveShaftShowingSlidingYokeAndSpicerTypeUJoint.jpg (84KB - 11 downloads)
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Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: So. Cal | I'm not thrilled with the transmission mount or the fuel & brake line routing, but the driveshaft conversion looks fine. You can put a boot on the spline that keeps the dirt out of it, but it isn't entirely necessary. |
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Ball and Trunion Conversion to Slip Yoke .. PICS
