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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
   
Location: bishop, ca | Slim is correct, that, as far as Dodges are concerned, there was no unique-special option listed for having
"colored wheels".
NOW, a knowledgeable sales-type-person could just say to some customer: "You just order a dog-disher, and
we'll see to it that your car is sold/delivered to you with a set of Spinners on it".
Or; "We can have your car's wheels be painted any color that your wallet desires"!
Ain't NOBODY, back-then, who cared about whether his car was 'documented' as having been built with OEM-painted
wheels on it.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 504
Location: southern Oklahoma | I think this guy probably painted his..... 
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Location: Parts Unknown | That hat has "Gay Rodeo" written all over it ! 
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Location: Parts Unknown | slimwhitman - 2010-04-26 6:44 PM
This is a great thread. I hope we come to some conclusions with it. I seem to see a lot of contradictions. For the record, my original '60 Adventurer with full wheel covers has satin black wheels.
I know a VERY few '60 Fireflites were built with dogdish caps. Does anyone know if all of those cars also came with satin black wheels?
************************************************
My 60 Fireflite coupe was a special order car, owned by the dealer's son. It had dog dish hubcaps on 15" wheels that
were P&A black. I SO wish I still had this car. Had I only realized how crazy-weird it was ! Given our ability to decode
these cars now, it would be very interesting to learn how the car left the factory and what gear it picked up in the dealer
service dept. It was (and remains) the only 60 DeSoto I have ever seen with back-up light delete block-off plates.
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Location: Parts Unknown | I have a vague memory of my old friend Jim telling me that body-color wheels were painted
up and matched to the car per the build sheet early in the production process. It seems to me
he said the paint shop made them up and sent them off to the chassis line where they met up
with the corresponding body as that build number came together at the body drop. Jim worked
at Pontiac from 55 to 65. Not sure if Mopar would do it the same, but it makes business sense.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | We have evidence concerning wheels right within Chrysler, Dodge & Ply did things differently so, why would Pontiac's painting be a good example? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Gerry, Brent is discussing the painting protocol, and, duh, almost certainly what Brent has said probably occurred
with every manufacturer that had specially painted wheels, i.e., the Paint Shop got some-sort of notice to paint up
a set of wheels.
Altho I have no evidence of this, to me it would make sense that the wheels would get painted at the same time that
the car's body would get painted, but, what would happen to the wheels, for mounting/balancing purposes, and with
eventual mating-up to the car's chassis, I dunno.
I gotta believe that there was some accounting-paperwork attached with a set of wheels, to document/confirm their
eventual match-up to the proper chassis.
This-all seems like a lot of special-work to do, to me.
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | What really happened is that when they were blowing all that overspray under the cars some must have made it to the wheels |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | No, once again, you are wrong, Aaron.
Want to try again?
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Location: Parts Unknown | horace - 2010-04-30 11:01 AM
We have evidence concerning wheels right within Chrysler, Dodge & Ply did things differently so, why would Pontiac's painting be a good example?
**********************************************************
I am only offering this little anecdote as some "inside" information on how things were done in
Detroit back in the day .... a perspective that has not been brought up heretofore in this thread.
I cannot say how it was done and rely on the testimony of crusty old farts like Jim that were there
to learn. Likely, it was done in some similar fashion between companies, as all tried to do the job
as efficiently as possible and copied each other often if someone came up with a "better" idea.
Here's the whole scoop .... I worked in a restoration shop in the early 80's where an emphasis of
interest was placed on unusual cars. Much of the work came by personal contact with the shop owner,
and he and his friends really prized the strangely equipped cars. They were also largely into Pontiacs,
and hence the subject came up about body colored wheels because dog dishy hubcap cars were a hot
commodity. Jim, having spent ten years in the body and body drop area relayed how it was done to
match the wheels to the car. I wish I had a clearer memory of the specifics, but essentially an order
came in and if the wheels were NOT to be the standard color, the paint shop was sent a build ticket to
get a set of wheels painted up and in the pipeline to be met up with the car at some point during
assembly. Conversely, he said that they DID NOT have a giant rack of different colored wheels waiting
for that special colored car with dog dishies.
I seem to recall someone (original owner type person) tell me that they had the dealer paint their
wheels a special color for them when they bought the car. So, I suppose that might be an option too ?
I know nothing. Just reporting things as I heard them ! 
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ..That certainly seems to be logical, B. .
I'd sure like to know how the paperwork coordination worked, as far as how/when the paint shop (wheel-paint
booth?) was notified to paint-up a set of wheels---seems logical that the wheel-booth would have had a stash of the
standard wheels on hand, rather than receiving the subject wheels to paint-up.
But, then-again, there were different wheel sizes among the different car models, so, maybe a set of wheels arrived
there, tagged-up to be painted, and forwarded-on, to the chassis-station.
I can imagine all sorts of SNAFU-situations, on the various assembly stations, where the correct interiors, dashes, and
suspension-component sub-assemblies might not be present when a particular car arrives AT that assembly station!!!
Whaddaya DO; stop the line (yeah, right..) or pull the car off the line (no way, Jose), or put on any-old SUBSTITUTE parts
that are lying there, at-hand (there-ya-go)....but, in the immortal lyrics of F. Laine: "Rollin, rollin, rollin, keep them
DODGES rollin...'sembly LINE..."
Edited by d500neil 2010-04-29 7:43 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Actually, I can 'see' the wheel-booth receiving an Order Sheet to go find a size/set of wheels, on hand, and then go
paint 'em up, and then attach that Order sheet to the wheels, so that they then get sent off to where they'll receive the proper size/type of tires, and be mounted/balanced and, finally be sent off to the Chassis Station.
The Supervisor, there, then has to ensure that 'this' bare chassis gets 'those' wheels (and brakes, and T/bars and axle-ratio) properly installed on it.
Tough job, car-after-car-after-car/day-after-day...
Edited by d500neil 2010-04-29 7:56 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Kansas City, Kansas | Seems like a lot of speculating going on here. Again, how would a dealership know how to order a color coded wheel if it was not on the order sheet?
I know there are going to be a few RARE exceptions (somebody that knows somebody to get something special) but it seems too specialized to have occured more than a handful of times. Funky exceptions like that were handeled by the dealership, not the factory. That WAS the job of the dealership...to add optional equipment and tweak the car to the new owners taste (if the new owner wanted to pay for it!) But I bet most were done in the new owner's driveway. If they were too cheap to buy full wheel covers, they were probably not going to pay for the dealer to paint his wheels. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | While a dog-dishie Chrysler might have been a rarity, such a Plymouth or Dodge was not so uncommon.
Perhaps some more production line/ dealer delivery / car carrier photos might bear out how often these
dog-dishie-body colored wheels cars were built. How many dog-dishie cars got standard paint wheels ?
I would submit that there WAS a code or designation that dealers could note to the factory for
body colored wheels. I have some dealer stuff for late 50's DeSotos that goes so far beyond sales
lit .... I never knew this stuff existed until I stumbled onto it. But it explains a LOT about how the
sales dept. worked with the factory. I am sure I have only a small slice of what was going on at
the time.
Out of curiosity, what is the standard color on a 60 DeSoto wheel ? My dog dishie wheels were P&A black, ..
.. and 15" ! By the time I got the car it had sat in a holly hedge for many years and the wheels were quite crusty.
Still, where the paint was still decent, it appeared to be a very old and well applied spray job with no visible
earlier paint under it. Maybe this car is not a good example because it was a dealer's personal car, but I have
seen too many body colored wheels mated to dog dish hubcaps to think this was some massive first owner
driveway conspiracy.
Interesting thread.
Hey Neil, .... if you think the in-house logistics of mating colored wheels to the right car would be a b!tch,
think about all those export and other hybrid models you see sprinkled in amongst the standard production line cars
in photos ! Whole interiors, special trim and dashboards. Yikes ! 
Wheels = 1 part x 5
Export model = 1,512 special parts to grab !!!!
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Expert
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Location: DFW, TX | Not to throw more fuel on the fire, but this is a scan from my 1957 DeSoto dealer brochure showing quite clearly a Firesweep sedan with body-colored wheels. And we all know which assembly line built those-
Now I don't expect this image to be definitive, not by a long shot. But at least it shows that body colored wheels were being considered for the dog-dish cars.
We have a Forward Look car designer on the board... does anyone know a factory worker??
 (firesweep 001.jpg)
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 firesweep 001.jpg (46KB - 199 downloads)
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Expert
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Location: Apeldoorn, Netherlands | If I were a customer ordering a dog dished car from a brochure showing it with body colored wheels, I'd expect the same without any doubt and wouldn’t hesitate to mention it when it would be delivered w/o.
Plus all the paperwork shows a one digit code was used for wheel/cover options. With three different wheel covers and the ultimate option of no wheel cover, wouldn’t that leave sufficient one digit possibilities for a simple option of color coordinated wheels?
Here’s a part of an IBM card, showing the wheel options.
 (wheels.jpg)
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wheels.jpg (3KB - 204 downloads)
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | d500neil - 2010-04-29 5:57 PM
No, once again, you are wrong, Aaron.
Want to try again?
Did not know I was wrong before.
What you don't realize is I don't care. So hurry up and figure it out I just dying to find out how the wheels got colored. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Jim Hoek - 2010-05-01 1:28 AM
If I were a customer ordering a dog dished car from a brochure showing it with body colored wheels, I'd expect the same without any doubt and wouldn’t hesitate to mention it when it would be delivered w/o.
Plus all the paperwork shows a one digit code was used for wheel/cover options. With three different wheel covers and the ultimate option of no wheel cover, wouldn’t that leave sufficient one digit possibilities for a simple option of color coordinated wheels?
Here’s a part of an IBM card, showing the wheel options.
*********************************************
This would be my point exactly. While it seems redundant to have separate slots for wheel covers AND deluxe wheel covers, as
both could be given a different number code under a single "wheelcovers" heading. But to exemplify the point, one could denote
the options under single checkpoint like so:
WHEEL COVERS
1 = hubcaps/standard wheels
2 = hubcaps/special color
3 = hubcaps/15" wheels/standard color
4 = hubcaps/15" wheels/special color
5 = standard wheelcovers
6 = deluxe wheelcovers
7 = wire wheels chrome
8 = wire wheels painted
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Location: The Mile High City | Ok, so far I am convinced that we can't be certain about wheel color. I have seen the gray and white wheels and I know those are correct. I have also seen correct colored wheels. When you know they produced both (which we do), almost anything could happen - and probably did! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The "Wheelcovers" (option code 402), for 57 Dodge would pertain to the ordering of the 'plain' full width wheel covers,
IF one of the major option-groups (which happens to include those plain-wheelcovers as being a part of it) is NOT ordered,
just as the "heater/defroster" was included within another option-package group.
If the particular option group (having the heater/defroster included 'in' it) was NOT ordered, then, the heater/defroster
individual-option (# 374) WOULD be 'noted', (on the P/T plate, the Broadcast Sheet, and on the IBM card copy).
Same thing for the "Del Whl/Covers"(Spinners; #403); they were included as part of one option group, but IF that option
group was NOT ordered, but, the owner WANTED to have the 'Spinners', then the 'Spinner' option code #403 was
'noted', and it superseded the standard dog-dish hubcaps' installation.
In other words: IF an option group was purchased, ALL of its individual-options (like the wheel covers and/or the heater/defroster)
would NOT be individually-separately noted on the P/T plate, the B.-Sheet, or on the IBM card.
Its/their presence was (already-)included within the subject option group's listing.
The "Dog Dish" hubcaps were the STANDARD equipment feature on ALL 57-58 Dodges. You got them on EVERY car model (along with
the body-painted wheels!) UNLESS it was built, or was ordered, as having one of the two optional wheel covers on it (in which case
you got the WHITE colored wheels).
There was no OPTION code for 57-58 Dodges, for having "colored/painted" wheels.
There was no option code, or otherwise, for NOT having any hubcaps or wheel covers installed on a car (no "hubcap Delete" availability).
All of this information (except for the different option-code-numbers) is true for the 57-58 Dodges.
Going back up to Danny's illustration, it is interesting to note that that model of DeSoto WAS built on the Dodge assembly
line.
Whether 'all' of the 57 DeSotos were advertised as having body-colored wheels, or, just this one Firesweep model, I don't know.
So, a Firesweep owner could 'argue' that his car "should" have colored-wheels on it, but, such an argument is not supported
by factual-production evidence.
..And, Jim, those option codes #402 & 403 are not "wheel" options, but, are wheel COVER options.
Edited by d500neil 2010-04-30 7:37 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | So, if a person WANTED the painted wheels (or, wanted the painted wheels/doggies), he could NOT order either
of several complete option groups, which both happened to INCLUDE the plain, or the spinner, wheel covers; he
would have to order, individually, all of the option group's features that he wanted, and each individual option-feature
would, then, be noted separately on the B.-Sheet and IBM card.
The owner would have to buy the plain, or the spinner wheel covers from the dealership and install them after the
car was built and shipped to the dealership (or, the dealer could throw-in the wheel covers, as part of the negotiated sales-deal).
Edited by d500neil 2010-04-30 7:48 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: MN | You ask for a factory worker, as I stated my dad sold new Dodges, I saw the finshed product at the dealership or on the transport trucks! Dodges 55 -69
white & gray wheels w/ full wheel covers hub caps had body colored wheels. Now if you have a converse situation a buyer may have dealt for changing of wheels or tires to make the deal on a car @ the dealership. Most Dodges were however sold with full wheel covers or fewer w/ spinners, they were however a medium priced car. The 2 57's I owned as a lad were full wheel cover cars w/ white/gray wheel. The 2 59's I owned were 1 Coro w/ hub caps & painted wheel the other full wheel cover white gray wheel!
Here's how I envision the "controversy" the dealer order comes in, oh how great it would be to have an old dealer order blank. Parts were put on the chassis probably starting with "WHEELS" , V-8 or 6, power flite or torqueflite or 3spd body then options & matching tire/ wheel out the door soon to be sold by a freindly/helpful Dodge salesman perhaps w/ long financing of 24 MONTHS. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | d500neil - 2010-05-01 3:17 PM
Going back up to Danny's illustration, it is interesting to note that that model of DeSoto WAS built on the Dodge assembly
line.
Whether 'all' of the 57 DeSotos were advertised as having body-colored wheels, or, just this one Firesweep model, I don't know.
So, a Firesweep owner could 'argue' that his car "should" have colored-wheels on it, but, such an argument is not supported
by factual-production evidence.
***********************************************
A Forward Look era DeSoto in any model is as rare as hen's teeth. Being a semi-upscale car in its lowest form and with models
rivaling Chrysler's top shelf cars at the high end, few buyers did not step up and put the basic full face wheel covers on their new
DeSoto. I have been a hardcore DeSoto goon for 30 years and in the time have seen only THREE surviving hubcap cars in that
time from the 57 and later years.
Ed Petrus could tell us what was the stock color for 57 wheels, but I can tell you directly that 58 DeSotos got Argent paint on the
standard wheel. I have never seen a 58 hubcap car, but I have seen a 57 and it had seafoam painted wheels to match the body
color. Another 57 recently sold in Britain also had body colored wheels, if memory serves. Both of these cars were Firedomes and
NOT built on the Dodge production line. The all black 60 Fireflite I owned had black wheels.
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Expert
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Location: New Castle PA | OK, so now that my name was mentioned (thanks, Doc!) I might as well get into this dogfight. I have only ever seen a handful of 1957 DeSotos with dogdish wheelcovers, and those wheels were either body color or black. I honestly don't know which, if either, is correct factory issue. My GUESS is the body-color ones, as Doc says.
For cars with full wheelcovers (1957 DeSotos only that I'm talking about), the overwhelming evidence supports Wayne Graefen's "1957 DeSoto Adventurer Handbook for Restoration and Judging". It says, and I quote, "The factory first painted the wheels the semi-gloss light gray used on the underbody of the car. Next, the outer surface only was sprayed gloss black with some overspray carrying through the brake cooling slots." That's what I subscribe to as correct for '57 DeSotos as a rule, and that's what I've told people for years, and it's how I've restored my cars.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Thanks Ed. I was thinking the 57's were not Argent, but my brain is getting fuzzy.
So, out of curiosity, did Argent prevail with DeSoto in 59-60-61 ? 20 years after dealing with cars that were intended
only for parts and were largely swapped around, as far as wheels go, have left me unsure.
I kept the dog dishies from my 60 when I sold it ... the buyer did not want them. I later found an extra in a wrecking
yard in Omak. I would love to build a super el cheapo 57 Firedome someday in those colors of Danny's recent post. I
dropped the ball and let a wasted rusty convertible in those colors get away from me in PA years ago that was bare bones.
Ed, you wouldn't happen to know what happened to that car, would you ?
I have never see a 61 with dog dishies, but I assume they kept using the new-for-57 hubcaps through to the end, as they
were definitely used through 60.
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Location: New Castle PA | I used to know of a couple of junked PA convertibles, but I've lost track of them through the years. Sorry! I knew of one may who claimed he found one with a tree growing out of it, but when I pressed him for photos, location information, etc. he quit writing. Don't know if he made it all up or was so paranoid that he thought I'd try to steal the car from him. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | The car, as I have photos of it, sat on a mown patch of grass beside a barn. It was a very faded aqua or seafoam
green color, no sweep, single headlights, and most notably, was a 3-onda-tree car ! It was a real gonner for rust,
looking as if the body were falling down over the frame. Even so, if this car were still out there, I'd like to take it on
because it was so weird !
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Location: Kansas City, Kansas | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-04-29 9:17 PM
Out of curiosity, what is the standard color on a 60 DeSoto wheel ?
My '60 Adventurer (unrestored and original) has black wheels. You would never know without taking off the wheel cover because it covers the entire wheel all the way to the tire....unlike the earlier wheel covers that allowed a 1/2 inch or so exposed. |
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Location: MN | Car line to car line year to year there were changes Dodges 60 & aft were black wheel for full wheel cover cars body color hub caps
Pre 53 wheels wrre interestingly the same on Dodges
Edited by horace 2010-05-02 1:30 AM
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Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2010-04-30 4:46 PM
So, if a person WANTED the painted wheels (or, wanted the painted wheels/doggies), he could NOT order either
of several complete option groups, which both happened to INCLUDE the plain, or the spinner, wheel covers; he
would have to order, individually, all of the option group's features that he wanted, and each individual option-feature would, then, be noted separately on the B.-Sheet and IBM card.
The owner would have to buy the plain, or the spinner wheel covers from the dealership and install them after the
car was built and shipped to the dealership (or, the dealer could throw-in the wheel covers, as part of the negotiated sales-deal).
If you wanted wheels painted colour you could not order ANY OPTION with wheel covers???? Sorry, makes no sense.
As I stated before from the 1930's through to the mid 1950's wheels painted body colour were the norm. They even had a pin stripe in a contrasting colour. No, if Chrysler could keep this all sorted out in the era BEFORE computers, why on earth would it be so difficult with computers keeping track of the parts needed and when?
Way back when, the wheels travelled with the body and were painted at the same time. So why could they not do that in 1957? No sales code? Every hear of notes? We have seen some broadcast sheets with black dash pad. Why not body colour wheels?
They would not stop the line and wait for wheels. They make sure the correct seats are there on time, the correct steering wheel, all the needed mirrors, etc. So why not coloured wheels?
Someone stated they have all the 1957 codes. If so, what are the options for codes -
421 to 429
431 to 439
441 to 449
501 to 509
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | I was going through my rims and found one that is painted argent front and back, but is egg shell white around the outer edge.
It is the older design, which came before the 1957-'59 model years. I need to share a photo of it.
K. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Chrycoman - 2010-05-02 11:42 PM
From the 1930's through to the mid 1950's wheels painted body colour were the norm. They even had a pin stripe in a contrasting colour. No, if Chrysler could keep this all sorted out in the era BEFORE computers, why on earth would it be so difficult with computers keeping track of the parts needed and when?
Way back when, the wheels travelled with the body and were painted at the same time. So why could they not do that in 1957? No sales code? Every hear of notes? We have seen some broadcast sheets with black dash pad. Why not body colour wheels?
************************************************
Bill,
I always thought those pinstripe wheels were custom. At least on the post-30's cars.
How late were those wheels done with the pinstripes ? I have seen them with multiple stripes, ... I think as many
as three. Would these still have been in production as late as 57-58 on hubcap cars ?
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Location: New Castle PA | Chrycoman, I can't help with ALL the codes for 1957, but I believe the 421 is the steering wheel clock, 431 the special crankcase hookup to the air cleaner that some cars had, and 441 the rear-of-the-front-seat cigar lighter. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Going back to Bill's comment, about the assembly line NOT waiting for any 'man'....in all likelihood,
if the correct body-color wheels had not yet arrived, (and were not apparently GOING to arrive, in
the very-near future...) for a certain dog-dish car which had arrived at the Chassis Assembly Station,
one can easily imagine that the harried Line Supervisor would make some sort of notation (to cover his ass)
on his Shift-Production Report (and, on/with the car, too), and would see to it that some other (white) wheels got put onto 'that' car,
and that the Line kept on moving.
Probably, a 'defective' car would be set aside, at the Final Inspection Station, until its (minor-) defects could be
remedied.
Bill, you mis-state my comment: if a person WANTED OEM body-colored wheels on his car (yeah, like THAT conversation
would ever have been brought-up, at the dealership, in the 50's...) the sales-type-person COULD have told him
that he merely needed NOT to specify either of the two option groups which INCLUDED one of the two full-width wheel covers
in them, and, also, NOT to order, individually, either the 'plain' or the spinner' wheelcovers...
Presto: dog dish hubcaps were installed (even on a CRL Super D500 vert), but the wheels were ONLY painted in the primary
(non-white) color of the car---Jim's postcard, at the top of this thread proves 'that'; the dog-dishes' wheel
colors are not necessarily related to the paint color which appears on the middle ("Saddle") area of the car.
There was no 'custom-ordering' of (any-color) painted wheels, for a Dodge--you only got the primary non-
white color, when you 'got' the dog dish hubcaps.
...And, the dealership would have confirmed on the Sales Order that the car was to be delivered to the
customer with (dealer-installed) wheel covers on it.
Edited by d500neil 2010-05-03 5:04 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | We all know that "production defect" cars were allowed to leave the factory---makes you wonder what kinds of screw-ups were
caught and DIDN'T get to leave the factory....
There must have been some REAL beauties, that got to the end of the line.
Edited by d500neil 2010-05-03 4:40 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: MN | Let's think about this wheel cover cars had white gray wheels! Wheel covers were $15-20 I suppose on a $3000-4000 car. Would it not be rational for the factory to have charged $15-20 for painted wheels(which of course this was not an option). Think of the era CHROME was the theme. Dual chrome antenna, dual chrome mirrors & dual chrome exhaust deflectors. Full wheel covers were sold on most Dodges! These were depression era customers who wanted some flash after suffering through the depression & WW2. They wanted some glamour yet were practical ie... if painted wheels were avail they wouldn't have paid exra just to cover them up!! Painted wheels seem important only in the 21st cent |
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Location: Parts Unknown | horace - 2010-05-04 8:39 PM
Let's think about this, .... wheel cover cars had white/gray wheels. Wheel covers were $15-20. I suppose on a $3000-4000 car. Would it not be rational
for the factory to have charged $15-20 for painted wheels ? (which, of course, this was not an option).
Think of the era. CHROME was the theme. Dual chrome antenna, dual chrome mirrors & dual chrome exhaust deflectors. Full wheel covers were sold on
most Dodges. These were Depression-era customers who wanted some flash after suffering through the Depression & WW2. They wanted some glamour,
yet were practical, ie... if painted wheels were available, they wouldn't have paid exra just to cover them up!! Painted wheels seem important only in the
21st cent
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I am not following the logic here. You are correct, MOST cars (Dodges included) got full face wheel covers. And you are correct again in pointing out the
era as being largely themed by "loud" styling, colors, and chrome. But you are describing "the rule", and we are discussing "the exception".
The 50's were the ever-optimistic, consumer driven paradise where even the whimsical idea of flight permeated the cars you could buy. But not everyone
was on the same page when it came to embracing the new economy and whimsy. Some clearly wanted (putting their money down on the table) the less
flashy cars, even in an era of flash. My own grandparents were very different in their consumerism this way .... They were both Buick people, but one pair
bought bright colored top-of-the-line Roadmaster and Electra 225 2 door hardtops and convertibles (and did it every 3 years), while the other had a dark
green 50 Special 2 door sedan with dog dishies and 3-onda-tree, which he later traded in on a stripper all-white 60 LeSabre 2 door sedan with dog dishies.
Incidentally, BOTH of the latter cars had no radio. Grandpa said "cars were for driving, not listening to music!", adding that such a distraction was what
caused accidents !
Had they been Chrysler fans, both would have been buying Mopar's Buick equivalent - DeSotos ...... one buying the Fireflite coupe or ragtop with wire wheels
and all the goodies, the other going for the Firesweep with rubber floor mats and no radio or added zing ..... likely with no color sweep and blackwall tires. It
would be this Grandpa that would wrangle the salesman into the cheapest car he could get. To him, Buick meant one step down from Cadillac for "quality", but
all that goo-gah stuff was just things waiting to break. He wanted the name, but beyond that, just the basic car. He went out of his way to have dog dish
hubcaps TWICE in the 50's, and if body color wheels were how they came, then that is how he would have ordered the car.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I do not believe that the color of the wheels, on a dog-dish, or, on a full-wheel-cover car made a bit of difference to 99.999%
of the new car buying public, in the 50's.
The person who insisted on getting the doggies was the man (no wimmen allowed) who lived thru the Depression, and who knew
the value of a buck, and who probably did not 'require' a radio in his car, or power brakes; he probably grudgingly accepted
power steering in it (just like I could give a Rats-behind on having a DVD--is that what you call them?--player, or a navigation
system---WTF--- in my car, today).
That buyer also knew that a Chry/DeS was a bigger car than a Dodge, and he'd rather buy a "more-valuable" (stripper-)
Firesweep/Windsor than a loaded-up Dodge.
"I don't need all that crap on my car, and give me the plain hubcaps (doggies) too".
NO salesman would ever risk a sale by informing a Prospect that the full-wheelcover cars only came with 'white' wheels on them.
He might, however, compliment the order-er of a set of Doggies by saying :"You know, those 'wheels'
come with paint, to match your car's body-color, at no extra cost, of course.... ; The full-wheel-cover cars
'only' have white paint on them"----but, then, the Prospect might insist on HAVING his car come with the
white painted wheels on it, so, maybe Mr. Salesman would learn to keep his mouth shut, and just keep-on nodding
his head, sympathetically, toward anything that Mr. Prospect has to say to him, until the Sales Order is signed!
Nobody cared about the color of the wheels on their cars, and, if they DID, the dealership, or the owner, could arrange to
get the wheels be painted-up to the buyer's desires.
Edited by d500neil 2010-05-04 3:54 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | This is a funny thread and I am realizing how much I am becoming my own Grandfather/s, replete with grumpy attitude
and disdain for all the fuss of new things and ideas. Why can't things just be left alone ? I can hear them say !!
I spent 2 $#@! hours yesterday trying to program a new watch .... first electronic watch I have ever owned. I finally
gave up after getting it to do NOTHING and called my 12 year-old nephew. 5 minutes later he had it all working and was
giving me that odd "kid" look like "what was so hard about that ?" F#@ing kid !!!
Next thing you know I'll be taking him out for ice cream.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Please let this thread DIE! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 988
Location: Kansas City, Kansas | horace - 2010-05-04 9:23 PM
Please let this thread DIE!
You must have full wheel covers on your fwdlk.... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Look real close spinners @ that |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Gerry, after 1957, Dodge no longer had advertising which showed the apparent existence of colored wheels
on their cars--notwithstanding any images of the Dog-Dish cars, that is.
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Location: The Mile High City | d500neil - 2010-04-30 4:17 PM
The "Dog Dish" hubcaps were the STANDARD equipment feature on ALL 57-58 Dodges. You got them on EVERY car model (along with
the body-painted wheels!) UNLESS it was built, or was ordered, as having one of the two optional wheel covers on it (in which case
you got the WHITE colored wheels).
It may have been that in 1957, all Dodge models had hubcaps as a standard equipment feature. But there was progress in 1958: hubcaps were standard equipment ONLY on the Coronets. The Royals and Custom Royals came with wheel covers as standard equipment. For 1958 Plymouths, wheel covers were standard equipment only on the Belvedere and Fury. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | My Ross Roy Data books of 58 show CR, Roy, Cor, Sweep, Dome, Plaz, Sav, & Belv all std w/ hub caps in 58! Flite had wheel covers std. I believe Furys had std gold center wh covers. And so on the saga goes |
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Horace -
Look at order code 511 on sheet 3 of the 1958 Plymouth Dealer Order Sheets on the homepage.
"Covers - Wheel - Set of 4......available for all except for Belvedere and Sport Suburban - Std. these models."
At the top of the page, Accessory Group 311 confirms it.
Ross Roy is good, but sometimes it can be wrong. I have seen similar information for 1958 Dodges: Royals and Custom Royals have wheel covers standard. Optional equipment on Coronets - I will have to dig out my source on that.
I am not sure about the wagons, but I would guess that in 1958, Sierras and Custom Sierras had standard wheel covers. Suburbans, maybe not.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-05-10 2:25 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Mike, you're saying that only the 58 Belvie and the Sport Suburban had standard (full-width) wheel covers on them.
The other models came OEM with the dog-dishes.
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Colored Rims
