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Location: Australia | Hi,
i have a 1960 desoto diplomat , a badge engineered 1960 Dart phoenix. Its now in Australia but was exported to Singapore in 1960.
I have yet to put a new headliner in the restoration. Originally the car came with cardboard pieces and bows to hold it in. I want to convert it to a headliner type , as sold by SPS.
As the previous owner has already inserted the rear big Back window, I was hoping to get the interior mouldings that hold up the headliner, probably not original on my car. As i cant use back window as its in already.
1/ Would say 62-64 custom 880s moulding fit if I can't source from a 60-61 Phoenix 4dr hardtop? I understand the glass is different , as is the part number?
2/ I have a friend with an imported 60 2 dr phoenix coupe which had such trim/mouldings, but obviously not the same. So is it original?
3/ Another friend had a 60 2 dr Matador coupe , but it had cardboard headliner so it didnt have trim?
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7207
  
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | The big back window was standard equipment on all Phoenix four door hardtop, so I would assume it would be the same for the Diplomat. All the high back windows on the 4 door hardtops from 1960 -1964 are the same window - Dodge 880s included. The mouldings should fit. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Love the big back window What color will yours be? |
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Location: Australia | thanks
i'll make a call to dvap them. It's gold. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Original color? US Darts didn't have a gold, but I realize exports did things differently. Thank you |
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Location: Australia | FG6 is the paint code. its two tone green, like the other Diplomat just posted but a pillarless hartop. the only one in the world Ive seen to date, though have seen Sedan, convertible and wagons.
the gold was done by the Hot Rodder I bought the car off. the car got painted black in Singapore after export.
Would the light green be on the roof? dark green on the body?The dash etc was the light green.
by the way , Do you have a cardboard headliner or have you converted it to material/
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Expert
Posts: 1819
 
Location: Vancouver, BC |
Do not have a "6" listed for paint style. "2" was a regular two-tone - roof / body, while "4" was for the roof cantilever and "5" for sweep cantilever. The "cantilever" refers to a two tone roof with the second colour coming up the sides of the roof producting a cantilever look.
The "F" is Spray Green while "G" is Spruce Metallic. The "G", regardless of style, is the main colour while the "F" is for the roof, cantilever, etc.
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Expert
Posts: 1231
Location: York County, PA | I don't know if we can help you, but we are also working on a '60 Dodge Phoenix four door hardtop. We have all the card board pieces to the interior roof if you want a pattern. 1/16" ABS sheeting can be substituted for any cardboard in the car. The interior is the same as for a 1959 Dodge. Ours is a red body with a white top and is original. We will be using a light gray headliner with "red cardboard" trim. Our "red cardboard" trim will really be 1/16"ABS covered with thin saddle grain vinyl matching the seats. If your car was originally two toned green, the headliner was probably light green. |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | FG6 - Used on the Diplomat as it had a lower colour insert, naturally.
So, the "G" is the main body colour while the "F" would be used on the roof and lower insert area. Roof only for the "F" would be FG2.
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Location: Australia | I have all the cardboard pieces and a couple of bows. I was hoping to convert the car to headliner cloth.
thanks
Wayne |
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Location: Australia | the color (oops colour) would be like in the 60 diplomat brochure
thanks Bill.
You know more than the Chrysler museum does! Pay good money to them but didnt get much more info , if any except the crucial thing of Shipment date.
Karl Pippart III in Mopar Muscle's March 2001 gave
FF1 = Spring Green Spray
GG1 Spruce Met.
Note the car was shipped in 11/1960. I thought they's already be building '61's, October is the US model year. This date ties in with the Feb 1961 registration date in Singapore.
Maybe Chrysler were using up old parts/bodies and selling them as Diplomat exports! should investigate this further. Hence the NZ diplomat is also a '61.
Edited by diplomat60 2010-07-04 7:48 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | I don't think there were problems w/ carryover parts with spare parts. My dad was selling the 60 Dodges. I remember him saying they were sold out ie manufactured as many as Dodge could. They were a great selling car. I remember folks trading 59 Chevys, 59 Fords, 59 Olds, 59 Pont for new 60 Dodges |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Wayne, unless I'm missing something obvious (never happened before!) , your car was Exported, and apparently
has Export options on it, like its gas tank (23 gallons?) and it has a heavy-duty "Taxi" suspension on it.
Its "battery" (and alternator?) were optional item(s) too.
What you might wanna do is get under the car and check out the torsion bar P/N's, which are seen on the ass-end of them
and look at the leaf springs--you got 6 or 7 of them?
You might see a P/N on the longest spring.
Happy hunting!
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | diplomat60 - 2010-07-04 3:21 AM
the color (oops colour) would be like in the 60 diplomat brochure
thanks Bill.
You know more than the Chrysler museum does! Pay good money to them but didnt get much more info , if any except the crucial thing of Shipment date.
Karl Pippart III in Mopar Muscle's March 2001 gave
FF1 = Spring Green Spray
GG1 Spruce Met.
Note the car was shipped in 11/1960. I thought they's already be building '61's, October is the US model year. This date ties in with the Feb 1961 registration date in Singapore.
Maybe Chrysler were using up old parts/bodies and selling them as Diplomat exports! should investigate this further. Hence the NZ diplomat is also a '61.
Did they give you a copy of the IBM build record card?
Although the shipping date is in November, 1960, that was not when the car was built. That date should be on the build record. Registering a car in the year it was sold, even if it was built in the previous year, is not uncommon. Canadian auto dealers did that back in the 1950's and 1960's with imported cars. Who knows how to decode a VIN or what the cut off was for sequential serial numbers? Given that a 1958 Morris Minor, for example, looked like a 1959 model . . . .
Production of the 1960 models ended in July (June in Canada), with 1961 models beginning in August. The sequential portion of the VIN, 137,596, is actually early in the 1960 model year. Chrysler built 192,407 Dodges at Hamtramck that year, so the final SPN should be around 292407. So that car may have sat around the plant for awhile.
The 1960 Dodge Dart was a great success in the U.S. mainly due to the fact the Dart replaced the Plymouth in Dodge showrooms. In Canada, where Dodge was mated to DeSoto, the 1960 Dart was not a great seller and the 1960 Polara sales dropped almost in half. So, it may be that anticipated sales in foreign markets were also soft, and Chrysler may have found themselves with more export vehicles waiting for a customer than anticipated.
Does the car have a body tag on the firewall? What does it look like, if there is one.
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | Just noticed something. Your car was NOT shipped in November, 1960.
In all the English-speaking world, except the U.S.A., the Ship Date of "1/11/1960" would be read as 01 November 1960.
But, in the U.S.of A. that is read January 11, 1960.
So it wasn't Chrysler that had the car sitting around. Too bad Chrysler Historical had no records as to where the car was shipped.
Edited by Chrycoman 2010-07-05 3:19 AM
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Location: Australia | Well Done Bill, 11 January fits with the Dates on the inside door panels which is December 1959. And I've been working for an American company for 10 years too! Just shows how well I switch off when I come home.The Dealer Code of 18000 means nothing? I'll attach the fender tag and the IBM.
Have you ever seen a 60-61 4dr HT Dart/Plymouth 118 inch with anything but cardboard? Maybe I should get the 64 880 mouldings and cut them down?
Neil, The original Torsion bars were gone , I bought the car as a shell. I replaced those with of my parts car which had Left 609 EWL and Right 608 CEC, The parts I bought of a 1961 had torsion bars 609 CKB and 608 CKB. Part No faces the rear. As an ex- A-Body guy I release the 608 relates to the thickness. Not sure about the codes EWL or CEC mean though? any idea? Only 5 leaf Springs.
Other interesting facts is that the Firewall had "Right" or RHD written on it before it was restored/repainted. Did not have a heater. "not needed in the tropics". The original seats had the dodge motif stars loke on the interior door panels like on the american 60 darts but it didnt have the high back for the driver, as RHD. Aussie Phoenixs are plainer seats with no motifs.
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC |
On the tag there is a section labelled "SO NUMBER", which is short for Shipping Order Number. The first four digits. 1221, is the Scheduled Build Date. So your car was scheduled to be built December 21, 1959.
Will look at the IBM card and tag and get back. Interesting that the tag has the letters/numbers recessed. Usually they were raised.
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | First the tag -
The SO NUMBER is 1221 9686 followed by an "S". The "S" is also on the IBM card. column 18 as part of the Dealer Order Number. I suspect it stands for DeSoto, which is how the order sepsrates the Diplomat orders from the Dart orders. Too bad the IBM cards are long gone. With the cars it could be possible to sort out the Diplomat orders by the "S" and then break them down into model, series and body style.
The body number, trim and paint codes have already been laid out.
The numbers under the letters I am not sure on, but probably are -
L - 1 : 441 : Solex glass
N - 8 : 388 : Vanity Mirror
Q - 2 : 422 : Astrophonic radio
W - 3 : 283 : Transmission - Torqueflite
On the IBM card, columns 28 through 62 are for the options placed on the car. The column number forms the first two numbers of the three digit sales code while the hole in the column is the third digit. If there are two holes punched in the column, there are two sales codes, as we shall see.
So, the sales codes and the options associated to the codes, for the ones I know -
283 - Torqueflite transmission
299 - Electric Clock
376 - Door edge protectors
342 - Foam seat cushion - rear
386 - Inside prismatic mirror
388 - Vanity mirror
422 - Astrophonic radio
441 - Solex glass, all windows
489 - Heavy duty option ??
492 - Shock absorbers ??
513 - Variable speed windshield wipers
521 - Axle ratio : 2.93:1
543 - Battery ??
554 - Tires
562 - Tires : 42 - 8.00x14", 4-ply, whitewall, rayon
576 - Gas tank / Carb / ??
581 - Export item ??
583 - Export item ??
587 - Export item ??
588 - Undercoating with hood pad
612 - Export vehicle
660 - Retro Bonus Code ??
The serial number is laid out in columns 67 to 76. The Shipping Date forms columns 77 to 80 (month / day).
Columns 9 and 10 are for the region the car is being shipped - 18 is for export, but which part of the globe?
The dealer code is 18000 - again the 18 is for export. The dealer code would be the next three digits, but Chrysler in Detroit probably would not have record of the dealers in export countries, in this case region 18.
Hope this makes sense. If I have missed any 'holes', please let me know.
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Location: Australia | Thanks Bill, I ask Chrysler museum for a refund and send the cheque to you.
You missed 584 , but my scanner is no good. I chopped the side numbers so I could get under 300K upload limit.
I wondered about whether the Door edge protectors were factory , the one of the other Diplomats just posted also had this.
The Axle code would have been obvious but why did Chrysler put N/A. Still it was worth it for the IBM card!
Interestingly I've just cleaned up the Axle off the 60 parts car , the one I used was from a 61 Phoenix. The Axle has a Blue Band or dot around it. Did they indicate ratios this way? I'm assuming its also a 2.93:1. In later A-Bodies stripes were used.
How do they indicate whether the car is a factory Right Hand Drive? Aussie Phoenixes had a Gemmer Box in them? A previous owner told me it had "right" or RHD written on the firewall.
I don't have power booster brakes , what was the code for that?It did have a vacuum operated vent with the buttons but didn't have any heater.
What's a shipping date of 0111?
thanks again |
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1960 Dodge Dart Phoenix 4dr hardtop Big Back window
