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Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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1959Dodge
Posted 2010-12-29 6:13 PM (#254962 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		OK Exaust is done. The exaust is 2.5 inches.
Here are the pictures.

Gary



(1959 Dodge New Exuast Dec 29 2010 001 modified.jpg)



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(1959 Dodge New Exuast Dec 29 2010 015 modified.jpg)



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Attachments 1959 Dodge New Exuast Dec 29 2010 001 modified.jpg (182KB - 202 downloads)
Attachments 1959 Dodge New Exuast Dec 29 2010 003 modified.jpg (82KB - 187 downloads)
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58sportsuburban
Posted 2010-12-29 9:24 PM (#254991 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: jersey		Great pics of the headers and how they fit! LOOKS GREAT!
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1959Dodge
Posted 2010-12-30 12:05 PM (#255046 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		So what ya thinks of the exaust, Dukeboy----I must say , "I'm a bit underwhelmed by the response to the pictures", so far.

Does anybody wanna hear "This Baby" Run????

Gary
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Rebels-59
Posted 2010-12-30 12:14 PM (#255048 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK		HELL YESssssssssssss

Great PICs Gary, But i would Love to see a Video of her Running and Smoking,,,
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dukeboy
Posted 2010-12-30 6:14 PM (#255085 - in reply to #255048)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Big pimpin'		Gary, all I can say is......................WOW!
Your exhaust looks awesome...I can't get over how well it is set up with the "X" pipe and all..You really outdid yourself on this build, and my hats off to your exhaust guy...I'm amazed to say the lesat and am looking forward (HA!) to a few sound bites on this beast...Very well executed, very well...


Yes, Pictures are Excellent! You really can't say they aren't detailed enough....This will make explaining the clearance issues alot easier...
Congrats Gary, I mighta been one of the first to retro in these type headers, but you are the first to do it to this level, and your car WILL BE the new reference in doing this...

Oh how jealous I am of your ride now...Geesh, that thing is gonna sound GOOD!

Edited by dukeboy 2010-12-30 7:12 PM
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1959Dodge
Posted 2010-12-30 6:32 PM (#255087 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		I will get the car tomorrow, Jon wants to put the finishing touches on it and detail the car for me.
He did (let me) drive it around the block.
It sounds great!!!!
It is a completely different feeling car now, feels like the car lost 2000 lbs.
Before, I usta hafta steps bout half way down on the pedal to get her moving
and let the old 400 wind out before I let her shift. Now the second you hit the
pedal she scoots. I didn't floor it or anything but the difference is amazing!!!

Thanks for the inspiration Dukeboy!!!!

Gary
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2010-12-30 6:35 PM (#255088 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Netherlands		That system looks pretty well made! Good job.
Where's the video?

One point of concern though, I would put lock-rings under those nuts at the header-collectors. They might work themselves loose after a while and the gasket might blow out aswell.
Another point The gear-selector cable with the piece of hose clamped on, seems very near to the exhaust tube. Can't you reroute that above the torsionbar, to keep it from melting away perhaps?
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1959Dodge
Posted 2010-12-30 6:58 PM (#255091 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		Thanks for the "Headsup" on the lock rings, and also the tranny shifter cable.
I did mention to Jon to be sure to route that cable as far away as possible
from headers and the rest of the exaust system, I think when the picures were
took, the exaust had just been installed , and other items not addressed yet,
but I will double check it---Thanks.

I only go to drive the car around the block today, but I should get the car
back tomorrow (Friday). I will see if we can get a friend to run the camera
whilst I take it for a "Test Drive"!!!!!

Later

Gary
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dukeboy
Posted 2010-12-30 7:10 PM (#255093 - in reply to #255091)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Big pimpin'		Yeah, them 'ol 440's weren't built for fuel mileage. They was built for one thing and one thing only, and you have now found out what that one thing is.....

Edited by dukeboy 2010-12-30 7:11 PM
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big m
Posted 2010-12-30 8:19 PM (#255099 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Williams California		Looks great, Gary,

Your exhaust guy definitely knows his trade!! Betcha can't wait for a run down the street!

---John
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1959Dodge
Posted 2010-12-30 8:57 PM (#255107 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		Thanks John!

I can't wait to drive it, I just hope nuttin gets in front of me as the car is still without Horn.

Gary
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JMCPERFORMANCE
Posted 2010-12-31 12:33 AM (#255137 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: O.C. CALIFORNIA		Hey guys, I wish I had a picture to post of Gary's grin as he drove his "new" car down the street for the first time today. As someone who HAS put the car past 1/4 throttle, his grin will only get bigger when the second carb kicks in. on the exhaust bolt issue, to solve leak problems we weld the flanges to the pipes and to the headers. we also weld the bolts into the headers(when they don't come that way) and we use locknuts on the bolts.Any one who is having gasket blowout problems should try this. we have hopes that the new found low end might help with fuel mileage around town, because the engine wont have to work as hard to make this heavyweight move. However, that notion might be far fetched. Does anyone out there with a similar set up know what kind of fuel mileage they get?
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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2010-12-31 12:42 AM (#255139 - in reply to #255088)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge


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BigBlockMopar - 2010-12-30 5:35 PM

That system looks pretty well made! Good job.
Where's the video?

One point of concern though, I would put lock-rings under those nuts at the header-collectors. They might work themselves loose after a while and the gasket might blow out aswell.
Another point The gear-selector cable with the piece of hose clamped on, seems very near to the exhaust tube. Can't you reroute that above the torsionbar, to keep it from melting away perhaps?
I don't know if this is a valid concern, but I hesitate using lock washers on high temp applications like this. My thought is, the heat will take the temper out of the lock washers. I use longer brass nuts which will never rust, or there are locking nuts that do not use a nylon insert. They either have a "oval" shape at one end or may have dimples in the edge of the nut to make a tighter thread clearance.

Congrats on what looks and reads as a very nice set-up. You will have way to much fun driving that "arrest me red "vert!!...........................MO
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2010-12-31 8:31 AM (#255162 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: RE: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Netherlands		I've got a '60 NewYorker with a dual 2.5" press-bent exhaust with shorty headers and the large Dynomax mufflers and a pair of 2.25" resonators at the rear.
Differences on my system are no X-pipe and a bit more cubicinches under the hood, about 500" orso The chassis is different aswell in 1960. The engine is also topped off with Chrysler's original longram intake system.
My engine is pretty much restricted on the intake and exhaustsystem because of it's 500ci. I want to upgrade it all to 2.5" mandrell bent, or even 3" perhaps, along with a putting a roller cam in the motor.

I've once got about 17mpg during a 2 hour trip, but haven't been able to get that milage again since I've connected the vacuum-advance on the distributor and played around with the ignitiontiming. Need to put some more time into one day.


Some pics of my exhaust which I've bend & build myself using some friends exhaust-bender. (took a couple of trips from and to our garages )













Edited by BigBlockMopar 2010-12-31 8:32 AM
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1959Dodge
Posted 2010-12-31 8:53 PM (#255268 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		Well, we got the car back from Jon (I had to "Punch out his lites") to get it away from him

Don't tell Jon, but this succer is "Impressive" to say the least.

It idles like a baby buggy, very smooth, car doesn't "Rock and Roll" at stop lites
like the old 400 engine did. So ya thinks, "Big Deal"???

Then I steps bout half way down on it and I hears "Screetchin Sounds"------never heard that before unless I
slammed on the brakes. Pretty impressive with a car that heavy and a 276 rear end.

I figgured , I would some day havta "Byte the bullet" and buy one of those expensive
over drives and redo the rear axle ratio----Nope-----the 440 solved all those problems.

Now I have "One heck of a launch" I suspect I could burn these tires up pretty quick (but we won't)
and on the other "Side of the coin", We have a great "Highway Cruiser" with that "Nasty 440"
just loafing along at 70 mph or so.

Didn't have time to do videos today, but we will!!!

Thanks again Duke for the inspiration and Thanks Jon for being able to put that thing Together!!!

Gary
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d500neil
Posted 2011-02-23 9:16 PM (#262185 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Location: bishop, ca		Herman (and Gary, et al), you guys should have your distributors be bench tested, to confirm their intrinsic Mechanical
advancements, and, to confirm the vacuum advancement that is attached to them.

Herm, a working V.A. HELPS the miles-per-gallon (at cruising speeds), it should not hinder it.

Ideally, you want to achieve about 45-50 degrees of total advancement (bet that you guys are not even CLOSE to that
figure---but, I'll soon have a thread-post on this subject, I hope!), but, ideally, the dissie's built-in M.A. will be about 28-30
degrees, so that with the initial advancement (set on the engine) at 4-8 degrees, plus the 28-30 M.A., you'll get about 32-36
degrees of total M.A., so, you can install a Vacuum Advance unit which will give you your +/- 45-50 degrees of total advancement.

My own car will soon have 6 degrees of initial, 28 degrees of built-in M.A. (thanks to a 1955 Windsor dissie!) and a V.A. unit
having 16 degrees = 50 degrees total advance.

Not stealing your thread, Gary, but with your car's 2.76 rear end, you should have whatever-dissie-you've-got be bench tested;
there's probably a lot of hidden HP/torque being restrained by your distributor's built-in mechanical advancement.

BTW, the V.A.'s advancement can be determined by removing it from the dissie and DOUBLING the small stamped number
that you'll see, on its lever-arm.

Edited by d500neil 2011-02-23 9:18 PM
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dukeboy
Posted 2011-02-23 9:56 PM (#262187 - in reply to #262185)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Big pimpin'		I'm of the opinion that high compression engines and 50 degrees of timing don't mix...even going down the highway..Most of Herman's engines are in the 500 C.I. range and are not very efficient at 50 plus degrees of timing "All in"...THIS is why when we run an aftermarket camshaft we usually don't run VA units...These engines tend to like 36 Total degrees timing all in around 3000 RPM....Yes, with an aneamic 300 C.I. engine, you might want to scrounge up every available HP, but when you have over 550 On tap, you are not all that concerned with MPG, as much as Detonation

Edited by dukeboy 2011-02-23 10:26 PM
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1959Dodge
Posted 2011-02-23 10:25 PM (#262190 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		I wanted the vacuum advance as I've always had them, and like Neil, I figgered better gas mileage, and better Low RPM performance. But---- when they were turning the engine as well as Dyno testing the engine they could just not get it to run right with the vacuum advance.

I do have one on the 413 on the 64
but we are not running anywhere near the compression ratio, torque or horsepower that the 440 is putting out.

I had my doubts about the low end performance, but the throttle response is "Instantaneous" regardless of engine RPM's, I can be going 20 or so, nail it and break the tires loose, and at a full stop it takes no effort to smoke the tires, ---yep even with the 276 rear and fairly large tires, so Maybe Duke's knows more than me, at least about those high power Hi- Torque engines???

I certainly have no complaints about it's performance, and cruising along slowly the throttle is just barely cracked. I havent measure the mpg yet, but I don't think it's much worse than the old 400, course I drive it a bit more vigorous now---Ya know, gotta brake in the engine!!!

I learned another thing too, Jon told me they actually dynoed the engine on 87 gas not 89 octane
so that 476 HP was on 87 gas. We probably could tune it for 500 HP but my goal was to run it on
87, and I have yet to hear a ping out of it, or the starter drag on a hot start, so what can ya say?

The Dizzy was "Dialed in" during the bench testing, pretty easy to do with the MSD Distributor.

I appreciate your inputs Neil, feel free to do so , any time.

Gary

Edited by 1959Dodge 2011-02-23 10:34 PM
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1959Dodge
Posted 2011-02-23 10:47 PM (#262194 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		Hmmmm, I just reread dukeboy;s response again. Pretty amazing, the engine did its best performance at 35 Degrees, I would say that's pretty close to 36? and I doubt Duke or his friends running 87 octane?

Ya thinks?

Gary
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dukeboy
Posted 2011-02-23 11:20 PM (#262199 - in reply to #262194)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Big pimpin'		Gary, this is why I do not respond when someone is asking about body numbers and such...
Yep, run my junk on 87 regular...I only have one car that likes 110 octane, but it gets 93/Cam2 mix..And that one does the most sitting..until I need to shut down some loud mouth..

Again, I really wish I could see your car in person as you executed the BB swap flawlessly. Everything I have done, you took the initial idea and did it one better. Twould be a pleasure to just ride in it..I can almost smell the fumes now. Enjoy, as you earned it...

Edited by dukeboy 2011-02-23 11:30 PM
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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2011-02-24 2:04 AM (#262210 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: RE: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge


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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA		FWIW. An aquaintance who is a Mopar Guru and wrote a book on 44o budget engines , actually sets his distributor up with a limit on tha mechanical advance , and quick advance above starting and hi idle. This is on a drag racing engine. Also some electronic ignitions retard the timing from full advance when it hits the higher RPM...........................MO
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58sportsuburban
Posted 2011-03-27 3:33 PM (#266138 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: jersey		What starter did you end up using? Just got these headers, and it says to use mcleod 810159, but that number is invalid. And # 810158, doesn't seem to be available.
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1959Dodge
Posted 2011-04-09 10:24 AM (#267691 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		Summit Racing does not list that starter, but Mcleod Racing does, and their facility is only a mile or 2 from JMC Performance.
It is an EXPENSIVE Starter, and unless you are using Headman Headers, You "MAY NOT" need if, but if you do Need It, Here is the Link.l

http://www.mcleodracing.com/products/Starters+%26+Replacement+Parts...

They used to list both the 810158 and the 810159 (The 810158 for Small Block Mopars and the 810159 for the Big Block Mopars)---but it turned out the 810158 worked for both applications ---so they discontinued the
810159. The 810158 spins the 9.8 to one 440 over very enthusically, hot or cold, alto in most cases
the engine usually fires off on the first piston. Only when the engine is really hot will she go thru a few pistons
before starting, and this is due to some slight boiling of our lousy gas, and all the heat that the aluminum heads add to the under hood temp.

I did buy the Edelbrock carb insulators which does help---alto if it were a "Perfect world" She would start on first piston regardless of temp.

Anyway, very happy with engine, Headman Headers and the Mcleod Starter.

Gary

Edited by 1959Dodge 2011-04-09 11:14 AM
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dukeboy
Posted 2011-04-09 10:30 AM (#267692 - in reply to #267691)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Big pimpin'		Gary, again, congrats on you exhaust as it looks amazing. I wish I could see this one in person one day...Thanks for the info on the Starter. Lots of cruising this summer. only wish fuel was a little cheaper. Still building the kids car at the moment, but look to fire it up before too long.
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1959Dodge
Posted 2011-04-09 11:27 AM (#267701 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		We will be at the Spring Fling in Van Nuys Calif, next Saturday, (April 16th, 2011).
I will bring my Digital Video camera and get some pictures of the car "Flying Down The Road" (LOL).
Aivar will be taking his 59 D 500 CRL Black and Champagne so we will get some pics of that "Baby"
flying down the highway, too.

The motor mounts were not replaced and Jon used the ones from the old 400 Engine, and I have already
managed to "Loosen up" the right motor mount (excess play) so I may havta be a "bit careful" in
smoking the tires----less I grind up my new radiator shroud. Jon tells me the motor mounts are about
$150 each (ouch)---and tis tax time---so not sure we will have it replaced prior to Spring Fling.

Thanks again, Duke, for your comments, this thing is truly a JOY to drive, and the car "Feels" very "Light on it's feet" with 476 HP.

Gary
new
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dukeboy
Posted 2011-04-09 12:31 PM (#267713 - in reply to #248503)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Big pimpin'		Gary, 'twas a pleasure to help in any way I could. Glad you are happy and I saw the job you did on your exhaust, so now I'm thinking seriously about reworking the exhaust on a car I'm currently building and will be painting before long. He will be running the Low deck engine, but will have headers on it. I usually install a driver's side motor mount "Torque strap" (Basically, a chain running from engine down to frame) in order to keep the motor mounts in one piece. Would love to see the video when you get a chance.
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1959Dodge
Posted 2011-04-09 2:37 PM (#267721 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		Thanks for that Duke Boy "Motor mount preservation kit" (LOL).
I will see if Jon can do some kind of "temporairy fix" so we can
"Nail it" it the upcoming video.

There was a guy with a brand new Camaro at a car show I went to,
He came by and saw the engine and asked, "how many HP"?
I told him 476 He said He wasn't gonna challenge me to any races (LOL).

Later!

Gary
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2011-04-10 5:00 AM (#267784 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Netherlands		Can some Mod here do his job and delete all this offtopic cr@p from this good topic please?


Gary,
I've looked at those $150,- mounts aswell but no-way I will be spending that kinda money on something simple as an engine mount. The steel seems thicker on those mounts, but that was never their issue with these mounts. Just the rubber separating from the steel by heat and oil.
Personally I don't trust these Floating Power mount designs when they're are holding a (way) stronger then stock motor. Therefore I've modded the mounts in my '60NY by drilling them and pressing a steel 3/8" rod through them and welding the ends to the mounts at both sides. 3/8" is fairly thick and will transmit some (idling) engine-vibrations to the car, one could probably also use 5/16" rods.



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1959Dodge
Posted 2011-04-10 9:15 AM (#267796 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge



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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca		Thanks for that Big Block. I will have Jon check out your post. I did some googling and have found engine mounts (supposedly for a 440) for considerably less than $150 and even found you can buy just the rubber part of the engine mount.

If any of you other "Mopar Gurus" have any suggestions as to motor mounts, please feel free to post about same!

Thanks!

Gary
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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2011-04-11 3:30 AM (#267948 - in reply to #267796)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge


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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA
1959Dodge - 2011-04-10 8:15 AM

Thanks for that Big Block. I will have Jon check out your post. I did some googling and have found engine mounts (supposedly for a 440) for considerably less than $150 and even found you can buy just the rubber part of the engine mount.

If any of you other "Mopar Gurus" have any suggestions as to motor mounts, please feel free to post about same!

Thanks!

Gary
There is a company called Schumacker(sp?) that makes positive locking motor mounts. thay cannot be pulled apart. and are completely surrounded by rubber. The company advertises in the Mopar magazines. .....................................MO
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dhunter93
Posted 2011-04-12 9:06 PM (#268266 - in reply to #248389)
Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge


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Please remove me from the forward look forum.. Removing post's that expose bad information given by your friend is B.S.

Beware the cam, timing and valvetrain info in this thread it is inaccurate! DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!

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