|
|
   
Location: Parts Unknown | d500neil - 2011-05-19 1:00 PM
Well, if Plymouth & Dodge have physically shorter/different top structures than the big-cars, then this Dodge-built
Firesweep vert would have the shorter DOD/PLY top mechanisms.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Negative on that. The only major component on a Sweep convertible that is genuinely DESOTO
is the body shell ..... that being the car body from the cowl back. It is set on a Dodge frame /
chassis and has a slightly modified Dodge nose clip and Dodge drivetrain. The interior is a special
Sweep / DeSoto combination.
You could take a convertible Firesweep body and drop it on a big body convertible frame and there
would be no differences from a Firedome, Fireflite, or Adventurer.
The top mechanisms differ between Dodge/Plymouth and Chrysler/DeSoto in a couple side irons, but
too much time has passed for me to remember exactly which now.
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | I should clarify that any comparison between Firesweeps and big body DeSotos here is restricted
to the convertible only. There are other differences with the closed body cars.
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | No, Brent; we're in agreement; the Sweep vert has the same top mechanisms/dimensions as the Dodes &
Plymouths.
The Sweep's top will not interchange with the bigger cars (altho a lot of its parts/pieces will fit onto the biggies).
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1728
Location: Fleetwood, Pa | If I'm reading Brent right, he's saying the Sweep, Dome and Flite all have the same body, from the cowl back. If I'm reading Neil right, he says the Sweep matches the Dodge as far as dimensions. If that's the case, the Desoto Firesweep's body sheet metal would be one in itself, which I would find highly unlikely. If the Sweep shared the same sheet metal as the Dodge, then I might be more likely to agree......
Edited by sidesho_bob1961 2011-05-19 4:12 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 7808
Location: Williams California | d500neil - 2011-05-19 11:28 AM
No, Brent; we're in agreement; the Sweep vert has the same top mechanisms/dimensions as the Dodes &
Plymouths.
The Sweep's top will not interchange with the bigger cars (altho a lot of its parts/pieces will fit onto the biggies).
Neil, the top assemblies in the Firesweep are the same as the senior DeSoto and Chryslers. I have the '59 Firesweep convertible parked next to the '59 Plymouth convertible I'm working on, the quarter windows are longer in the DeSoto, as is the top assembly overall.
---John |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | OK......so to recap (y'all): which 1957-1959 FWDLK convertible top systems interchange.
The PLY (with its smaller 1/4 windows) can't be unique, can it?????
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | I am no expert on Dodge or Plymouth convertible top assemblies, so I will defer to others on
those specifics.
What I do know is that ALL 57 and 58 DeSoto models, including the hybrid Firesweep, share a
common convertible body and all body parts from the firewall to fin tips is EXACTLY the same.
Can't tell you what they did in 59, .... I *think* they are the same, but with the modified 59 rear
end (?)
But I'll say it again, .... if I wanted to build a 58 Adventurer from a 58 Firesweep, I'd need body
tags, a 58 DeSoto or Chrysler coupe frame, a 57-58 (59?) DeSoto or Chrysler convertible X-member,
and then just put the Firesweep body shell on it and build it up like normal from there.
And then if you were Paul Garlick, you'd add the story about Joe Dimaggio buying it for Marilyn
Monroe ! 
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | I guess this car for sale just kinda died on the vine ? I have rec'd zero feedback regarding
PID of current ownership after a week.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1295
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | Nice repair..........
 (DSCN0184.JPG)
Attachments
----------------
 DSCN0184.JPG (196KB - 296 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Unquestionably, ... that is the Jarstad car.
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 7207
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-05-25 9:31 AM
Unquestionably, ... that is the Jarstad car.
Brent, I met the Jarstads back in 1980 at my first WPC Club National Meet, in Seattle. It was the 11th Annual Meet. The Jarstads had ( I'm fairly sure) 1959 DeSoto 2 door hardtop there with low mileage - I don't remember what model it was. They had a daughter named Gwen I believe but that was 31 years ago.  I was 25, motored down to Seattle in the 60 Polara and got a second in its class. Lost 1st to a 60 Valiant Wagon.  |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1295
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | Here she is.....
Edited by mogge65 2011-05-25 5:05 PM
 (DSCN0186.JPG)
Attachments
----------------
DSCN0186.JPG (239KB - 192 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 254
Location: Austria, Vienna | Chrysler Winsdor 59 than should have the same top frames like NY or 300E in analog with desoto firesweep? |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Wow, .... do I really need to spell this out a THIRD time ?
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2596
Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | parat11 - 2011-05-25 5:45 PM
Chrysler Winsdor 59 than should have the same top frames like NY or 300E in analog with desoto firesweep?
Yes Windsor 59 have sama top frame as NY 59 and 300E (+ 1957, 1958) |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Thanks Joakim. That makes 4 times. 
Anyone else ?
|
|
| |
|
Location: The Mile High City | Well, she be rough - that's for sure. Does anyone know if the Jarstad's sold it or why the advertisement was removed?
I would guess that someone out there might be crazy enough to spend $20,000 for it (not me)! |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Something fishy was going on. A guy claiming to be Jarstad's stepson was the contact
for the sale. He made comment that it was going to be tough breaking the news to his
stepdad that the car had been sold. I alerted the Shelton PD about it for possible contact
/confirmation of ownership, but have rec'd no feedback as of this date. Jarstad did tell me
that he had fambly back ND way, but that is about all I remember about that.
Sounds to me like the seller did not have full rights to sell the car and when questions
were asked, he got scarce. Uh-oh !
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1295
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | more pic´s
 (DSCN0186.JPG)
 (DSCN0187.JPG)
 (DSCN0188.JPG)
 (DSCN0189.JPG)
Attachments
----------------
DSCN0186.JPG (157KB - 168 downloads)
DSCN0187.JPG (227KB - 171 downloads)
DSCN0188.JPG (225KB - 172 downloads)
DSCN0189.JPG (179KB - 170 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | That's a sedan front seat & I dunno what's that, in the rear.
The hammered brake pedal shows a lot of City driving, with a manual brake system, and that's a PowerFlite trannie,
in a vert?
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Neil,
That is the extremely rare "pony" interior back seat, with saddle buckle decorations still in place.
Just TRY finding another one !!!!
Most Sweep rags I have seen were strippers ... clear glass, manual everything, basic-basic car
with a drop top to catch customer's eyes. Most anyone interested in fancy options moved up the
model line to a Firedome or Fireflite, but in 58, not many were doing that and just kept it basic. One
such car had a 3-onda-tree and no color sweep !
|
|
| |
|
Location: The Mile High City | Looks like a real bank account drainer. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
Location: Finger Lakes NY | my 58 firedome conv is ps pb 361/torqueflite clear glass manual windows/seat |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 229
Location: georgia | fast59 desoto, how much for the 58 desoto vert? |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1172
Location: bradenton florida | Looks like someone saw the sweep convs at the latest auctions and they are all fighting over them now |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | fast59desoto - 2011-06-07 12:12 PM
my 58 firedome conv is ps pb 361/torqueflite clear glass manual windows/seat
************************************************************************
What were the original colors ?
I have seen very few of the high end or more "exotic" DeSoto's with much fancy optioning.
Most were power steering / brakes and that's about it. Although the auto tranny was an option,
I hardly consider it fancy, considering 99.8971% of all DeSotos built after 1954 got them.
|
|
| |
|
Location: The Mile High City | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-06-04 3:43 AM
Most Sweep rags I have seen were strippers ... clear glass, manual everything, basic-basic car
with a drop top to catch customer's eyes.
Well, when the lucky ones get restored for auction, they get almost every option imaginable tacked-on in the process. By viewing the auction-queen Firesweeps of recent years, you would think they were luxury liners on par with fully-loaded Cadillacs! |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Yeah, ... which is total crap. I have never seen a Firesweep of any type with anything but
the most basic of options, ... convertibles in particular. I find this interesting from an historical
point, because the Sweep was always intended to low-ball the DeSoto line and cut into Dodge
territory. ALL Sweep convertibles I have ever seen were pretty basic cars, ... in fact, this one
is typical of 99.9% I have seen, which numbers about a dozen ...
... PS, PB, PF (maybe TF ?) auto, clear glass, rubber floor mats, basic radio, most usually did
have dual rear antennas, but that was it.
I read those auction write-ups and kinda puke up a little in mouth. You'd think those luxury
liner Firesweeps were custom bodied Deusenbergs by the way they are described. Always
pandering to the idiot who knows nothing about DeSotos or rarity amongst FL cars.
Oh look, it's red ! Must be awesomely kick-ass ! Mr. Auction man says this will make me SO
cool. I better double my bid !
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh |
"I have seen very few of the high end or more "exotic" DeSoto's with much fancy optioning.
Most were power steering / brakes and that's about it. Although the auto tranny was an option,
I hardly consider it fancy, considering 99.8971% of all DeSotos built after 1954 got them."
I'm guessing mine has a few more options than most - PS, PB, power top, chrome bumper extensions front and rear, chrome fender tops, solex glass, deluxe steering wheel, stone shields, clock, standard radio, dual mirrors, license plate frame and undercoating. It's a Halloween car, built 10/31/57 and apparently built on spec because it was sitting in the showroom at the dealer for a while before the original family bought it.
and as far as the options on the 'Sweeps --
"I have never seen a Firesweep of any type with anything but
the most basic of options, ... convertibles in particular."
I checked my factory price list and the steering wheel clock wasn't even offered for the 'Sweeps - neither was the deluxe radio. And then Ebay came along....
Brad
Edited by BSoto 2011-06-07 9:06 PM
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Your power top was standard equipment .... no such thing as a manual top in a FL
convertible.
Your car sounds nicely equipped. The Solex glass is very unusual. I would bet good
money that most red and white cars were dealer inventory orders to draw attention to
the showroom. Too bad so few ragtops survive to do a study of this.
Could you get a de luxe steering wheel on a Firesweep, or were they black rubber only ?
I have found it fascinating when looking at Sweeps (ragtops) because here you have a
"fancy-schmancy" convertible, and yet they are always such strippers. I find the irony
of rarity and desirability vs. the basic nature to be shocking to my expectations. In my
photos I have pix of one that I wanted to buy (not quick enough on the draw) .... it had
no side sweep (just the single bar) and was devoid of any options worthy of note. It was
so stripped, it was really cool. All white, black interior, black top, but by God, the top went
down !!!!!
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The short answer might be that DeSoto didn't want to provide Dodge with a whole bunch of fancy-parts to keep in
assembly line inventory, to put onto their loss-leader models, that the po-folks bought.
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Don't know how corporate handled their supply end of the hybrid cars, but from the unrestored
Sweeps I have seen, they truly were a unique statement of bare bones ragtops that seems
strangely contrary to the overall image of a Forward Look convertible. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1295
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | BSoto - 2011-06-08 3:01 AM
"I have seen very few of the high end or more "exotic" DeSoto's with much fancy optioning.
Most were power steering / brakes and that's about it. Although the auto tranny was an option,
I hardly consider it fancy, considering 99.8971% of all DeSotos built after 1954 got them."
I'm guessing mine has a few more options than most - PS, PB, power top, chrome bumper extensions front and rear, chrome fender tops, solex glass, deluxe steering wheel, stone shields, clock, standard radio, dual mirrors, license plate frame and undercoating. It's a Halloween car, built 10/31/57 and apparently built on spec because it was sitting in the showroom at the dealer for a while before the original family bought it.
and as far as the options on the 'Sweeps --
"I have never seen a Firesweep of any type with anything but
the most basic of options, ... convertibles in particular."
I checked my factory price list and the steering wheel clock wasn't even offered for the 'Sweeps - neither was the deluxe radio. And then Ebay came along....
Brad
PLEASE POST SOME PIC´S BRAD |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1172
Location: bradenton florida | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-05-19 11:01 PM
But I'll say it again, .... if I wanted to build a 58 Adventurer from a 58 Firesweep, I'd need body
tags, a 58 DeSoto or Chrysler coupe frame, a 57-58 (59?) DeSoto or Chrysler convertible X-member,
and then just put the Firesweep body shell on it and build it up like normal from there.
You would need Fireflight, Firedome or Adventure, Or what i like to call them Seinor models) Fenders and all fender related hardware. ie...fender wells, side stainless. As well as a Hood to go whth the longer fenders as the firesweep fenders are shorter that the seinor models. look at the space behind the front wheel well to rhw end of the rear of the fender where it meets the door. thats where the difference shows up. buying a seinor model just gave you a longer hood to look over. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1295
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | HERE´S A NICE ONE, POWERFUL ENGINE TOO.................
 (HOPPED UP DESOTO.jpg)
 (HOPPED UP DESOTO2.jpg)
 (HOPPED UP DESOTO3.jpg)
 (HOPPED UP DESOTO4.jpg)
 (HOPPED UP DESOTO5.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
HOPPED UP DESOTO.jpg (41KB - 195 downloads)
HOPPED UP DESOTO2.jpg (90KB - 176 downloads)
HOPPED UP DESOTO3.jpg (101KB - 168 downloads)
HOPPED UP DESOTO4.jpg (59KB - 181 downloads)
HOPPED UP DESOTO5.jpg (49KB - 186 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4654
| WOW, I like that one. Could it be bought? |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | One of eight with a never-offered 350 Firesweep 2x4 engine !
And Marilyn Monroe had her own personal screenwriters !
Wow, .... this car really is special. No doubt, Neil Armstrong drove it on
the moon too.
I don't get it. As if the car isn't special enough without all the hype.
Gimme a break ! 
|
|
| |
|
Location: The Mile High City | no power windows and no Highway HiFi? This thing is a stripper!
one of eight?
Adventurer interior option? |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Don't forget the 15" "Kelsey Hayes" wire wheels---at the very least, they should be "Motor Wheel" brand 14"ers.
Under-bumper dual exhaust, but lovely tinted glass, and a wonderfully-correct padded dash; note
the razor-edged finishing of it, over the speedo housing.
Lovely car; but wouldn't you like to gaze at its IBM card copy?
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Just thought of a new credo: "Don't look a gift FWDLK'er in the "IBM"....
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | mogge65 - 2011-06-09 10:54 AM
BSoto - 2011-06-08 3:01 AM
"I have seen very few of the high end or more "exotic" DeSoto's with much fancy optioning.
Most were power steering / brakes and that's about it. Although the auto tranny was an option,
I hardly consider it fancy, considering 99.8971% of all DeSotos built after 1954 got them."
I'm guessing mine has a few more options than most - PS, PB, power top, chrome bumper extensions front and rear, chrome fender tops, solex glass, deluxe steering wheel, stone shields, clock, standard radio, dual mirrors, license plate frame and undercoating. It's a Halloween car, built 10/31/57 and apparently built on spec because it was sitting in the showroom at the dealer for a while before the original family bought it.
and as far as the options on the 'Sweeps --
"I have never seen a Firesweep of any type with anything but
the most basic of options, ... convertibles in particular."
I checked my factory price list and the steering wheel clock wasn't even offered for the 'Sweeps - neither was the deluxe radio. And then Ebay came along....
Brad
PLEASE POST SOME PIC´S BRAD :wince:
Mogge --- here are some pics that Mike posted for me last year ... check out this thread...
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=30240&...
The only change these days - I have the original wheels and caps on it with bias ply tires. I'll put the wires back on later.
Brad
Edited by BSoto 2011-06-09 11:40 PM
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | d500neil - 2011-06-10 2:42 PM
Don't forget the 15" "Kelsey Hayes" wire wheels---at the very least, they should be "Motor Wheel" brand 14"ers.
Under-bumper dual exhaust, but lovely tinted glass, and a wonderfully-correct padded dash; note
the razor-edged finishing of it, over the speedo housing.
Lovely car; but wouldn't you like to gaze at its IBM card copy?
*******************************************************
FYI - the original Motor Wheel wires were only available as 15".
Speaking of the exhaust .... do you suppose the owner is worried about birds nesting in those
ports and put expanded metal in there to keep them out ?
When I get home, I am going to reproduce the original type exhaust ends so owners can dummy
them in (or go the original route) without concern for nesting birds or stuffing the hole with lights or
reflectors, etc. I saved a really nice pair from a parts car years ago to use as a model.
And yes, Just Dashes makes an outstanding re-pop dash for these cars !
I would like to look at the IBM card for any seldom seen car. Always fascinating reading.
However, what I really want is a wayback answer machine to ask the dealer / buyers or consumer
buyers WHY they ordered a car a certain way and to see the look on their faces when you show them
their car now.
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The Sweeps may have been deliberately built as strippers in order to make them as inexpensive as possible (for
someone who really wanted to buy a DeSoto).
Most new car DeSoto buyers were probably not 20-somethings, but rather, 30-40-somethings who either came out of the
Big-One, and/or thru the Great-one.
The cars that they grew up in had maybe a radio and a heater; power steering & brakes were akin to a Navigational system,
--and, I SURE don't wanna (have to) pay extra for one of them toys, nowadays.
So, a stripper Sweep made perfect sense...economically affordable for a Soto-wannabuy, and any 'prospect' (as potential buyers
were called, in the industry) who was put-off by the lack of power windows (sure; uh-huh---but REALLY, a nice feature to
have in a vert) might be induced to upgrade to the Big Dog Flite vert "for only a few dollars more, per month".
A smart dealership would want to maintain a wide price spread between its cars, so as not to turn away any prospects, and the
only-best way to do that, with their verts, is/was to have a supply of inexpensive (strippers) cars in inventory
which would be priced well less than the deluxe(r) models that were also on hand.
The strippers also served to show what a buyer could aspire to getting, in the more deluxe Dome and Flite models.
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-10 6:25 PM
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | A Desoto was like a Buick, in those days; definitely up-scale-mobiles.
The general public only saw you cruising around in a Soto; they didn't realize that your ride was a stripper; they
only perceived your affluence---you were the one who had to suffer, in silence, thru the manual steering and brakes....
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1172
Location: bradenton florida | Whats an Adventure trim package???
Repainted 1994 years ago? |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | I just got off the fone with Paul Garlick. He said the "Adventurer Package" was a double-extra
secret marketing deal, built exclusively at an undisclosed location in Mexico for the outer Aleutian
market. Joe Dimaggio owned much of the outer Aleutians at the time, and bought this car for Marilyn
Monroe to use on her Australian estate near Pambula.
Hey Garry, .... how was your Sweep equipped ? It was originally a red car with white top and sweep,
correct ?
Neil, .... you have the late 50's contemporary marketing down perfect. It was no accident that cars
fall into very typical levels of equipment, relative to their model.
It made no sense to load up a Sweep or Dome when you could much more easily just buy the Fireflite
or Adventurer and get not only the goodies, but the badge as well. Of course, there are always those
weirdball exceptions - and these fascinate me - where someone bucked the typical and bought the
stripper NY'er or the loaded Plaza. But in the main, the vast majority of cars were sold in very typical
equipment packages and models, and the 58 Sweep convertible was fairly unique in being a first year
car, but also being an only year car to wear the non-DeSoto nose on a convertible. So, it is a stand-out
not only in being a typically stripped convertible, but also in its unique appearance.
What has changed is the advent of Barrett-Jackson and all attendant mental adjustment within the hobby
that ANY late 50's Mopar convertible simple MUST have been a hand-crafted, solid gold rolling gadget display.
It just was not so. And in making all these bogus claims and building cars way out of their original paradigm
is that what made these cars unique is being lost to a muddling of facts for pure cash profit.
Kinda sad. 
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1172
Location: bradenton florida | yup mine was red white spear and top red interior , torqueflight power steering and brakes.
My car is the only known firesweep to havce survived the San francisco earthquake and fire. |
|
| |
|
Location: The Mile High City | d500neil - 2011-06-10 2:01 PM
A Desoto was like a Buick, in those days; definitely up-scale-mobiles.
De Soto competed with Oldsmobile (still upscale). Chrysler competed with Buick.
Imperial = Cadillac = Lincoln
Chrysler = Buick
De Soto = Oldsmobile = Mercury/Edsel
Dodge = Pontiac
Plymouth = Chevrolet = Ford
Of course, everything got fuzzy with all the different models, but those were the traditional line-ups for 1950's Big Three competition. Those Firesweeps may have been targeted to steal away customers from Pontiac. Unfortunately, they probably just stole most of their customers away from Dodge. |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | I have heard it from many oldtimers that "DeSoto was Chrysler's answer to Buick". I have no
recollection of any other make getting the comparison. They even went so far as to note the
similarity in toothy grilles.
Nothing official, .... just what guys who were into cars back in the day had to say.
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Mike's listing makes a basic sense, but as Brent says, there was a lot of brand-loyalty overlapping,
above the PLY/Chub/Fart entry levels.
Dodge co-sold Plymouth at some dealers, and many dealers sold DeS/PLY's, but I don't think that there were (m-)any
DOD/DeS dealerships.
CHRY/IMP dealerships makes sense---I don't think that the Corp would want to have those inbred DeS/CHRY's being
sold together.
BTW, the 57-58 Ross Roy (propaganda-) Data books have comparison evaluations with the Poncho & Old-mobile and Merc
models, and, I think that there were Coro -vs- Chubbie & Fart evaluations, too, so, there obviously was quite a bit
of brand switching going on.
|
|
| |
1958 DeSoto Firesweep Convertible
