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'61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!
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Windsor Wendy
Posted 2011-08-13 3:30 PM (#284552)
Subject: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!


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Location: Netherlands		Hi to all you Scandinavians....

We are trying to trace some history on our '61 Windsor.
We know the car came from Finland, we've still got the original Finnish paperwork but we can't make any sense of it...
Maybe some of you guys and/or girls can explain the license paper to us? Seem to be 2 women's names on there. 2 owners?

Maybe someone here remembers the car??? Pics are from when the car just arrived in Holland in 1995/96?
Car was sold to a German, brought to Holland and licensed here and was then taken to Germany where it was left outside and unused until last year....
We got the car after hassling the owner for about 10 years....left Finland in great condition, went downhill real bad, see later pics.
Now 8 months into the resto....

Maybe somebody Finnish could contact previous owners on our behalf, and find out more about our "Betty"?
Surely previous owners would have pics and so on, we would like to know if the car was originally built for export and which dealer she went to from the factory....
Was there a Chrysler dealer in Finland or did it come from somewhere else???

All help and ot info would be very much appreciated, Thanks!






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FinFury57
Posted 2011-08-13 4:03 PM (#284558 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: RE: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Kangasala, Finland		Hi,
the title says (three last lines) that the car was registered in Finland on 3.5.1989 and was imported to the country by person named Ari Tuurn from Kalajoki. Now idea why that would be on the title....
The short white plates would imply 80's import too. There were lots of US cars imported to Finland in the 80's - before the recession - sort of a golden age of vintage american cars in Finland.

There was Chrysler dealer in Finland, Berner, but the company does not deal with cars anymore - they are into chemicals now.

Edited by FinFury57 2011-08-13 4:09 PM
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Windsor Wendy
Posted 2011-08-13 4:42 PM (#284563 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!


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Location: Netherlands		Thanks for that, that's already more than we knew....Would the female names with addresses on the title be the previous owners?
Were all those cars imported in the 80's imported by private people or by companies? is Mr. Ari Tuurn then a private owner or a car company or is there no way of telling?
Thanks for the input...
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Windsor Wendy
Posted 2011-08-13 4:44 PM (#284564 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!


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Location: Netherlands		Also, were all those cars back then imported from the US or did they come from anywhere?
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55CRL
Posted 2011-08-14 9:21 AM (#284607 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Magra, Sweden		Sad story such a nice car have been neglected but I', happy to see it now having a good new home.
This title is in both Finnish and Swedish language and the name on the left is the registered New Owner in 1995 and the name to the right was the Current Owner at the time.
Most probably it's been the same in Finland as in Sweden with a lot of old cars imported from the US by private people or by companies specializing in collector cars. Many models never sold new in our countries are today quite common.
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FinFury57
Posted 2011-08-14 2:11 PM (#284631 - in reply to #284607)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Kangasala, Finland		Yes, most of the cars did come straight from the US - a few odd ones from Canada too. Basically none outside northern america.

I would suspect that the importer was a private person. There were a few professional or semi-pros in that field too. Importing of the cars pretty much dried up in 1990/91 due to recession for a LONG time.

I can't really read what the small print on the title says. It might be that the female names were new and previous owner - it might also be that they co-owned the vehicle. I can't remember those old titles by heart anymore. What does it say in those fields?
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wizard
Posted 2011-08-14 2:16 PM (#284632 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island		Nice car - keep us posted with the progress. The roofline of the 60-62 is the same for 4DHT as for 4DS - that makes the 4DS a very comfortable car with almost the same profile as the 4DHT.
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55CRL
Posted 2011-08-14 2:54 PM (#284635 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Magra, Sweden		Above Forsman seems to be "i registret antecknad ägare" (current owner) but I can't read the other, could it be previous owner
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Windsor Wendy
Posted 2011-08-14 5:07 PM (#284654 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!


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Location: Netherlands		It says 'innehavare' in the other field..

Thanks for all the input guys...we are still keen to find out as much as possible...would it be possible to send the last owner a letter? We could use some help with the translation otherwise we'll have to resort to 'Google Finnish' and God knows what we'd end up saying!

Thanks for the good feedback on the car...and we prefer the roofline on the four door to the coupes..we will upload more photos soon...it's very much a work in progress and although it sometimes feels that work is never ending we know that we're gonna end up with a stunning ride.
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brdtee
Posted 2011-08-15 3:54 AM (#284701 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Pieksamaki, Finland, Europe		Well I can post your questions about this car to the Finnish forum, www.overdrive.fi - I guess there might be people who know more about this car. Overdrive has over 20.000 members and there have been similar threads also before about some vehicles' history.

In the Finnish title the person on the left is the owner of the car and if the car is regularly in someone else's use, other than the owner, then there is also mentioned this person on the right who takes care of the car behalf of the owner. So Forsman was the actual owner and the Sjöberg was the "holder/user" of the car. The user/holder is the one who pays the taxes and other fees of the car. For example I had my '60 T-bird when I was under 18years of age and then even I was the owner I had to have someone over 18years as the car's user/holder because I didn't have driving license.

Adresses of the previous owner/holder seem to be apartment houses and it's quite possible they do not live in those adresses anymore. I ran a check on Finnish phone finder and there were several persons with these names and none of them lived in those adresses.

Edited by brdtee 2011-08-15 9:33 AM




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brdtee
Posted 2011-08-15 4:09 AM (#284702 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Pieksamaki, Finland, Europe		There were actually a thread about 1961 Chryslers in Finland. I posted your inquiry there with one pic and quote from here. Let's see what information comes along.

Even you don't undestand a word, here's the link: http://www.overdrive.fi/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21560

Edited by brdtee 2011-08-15 5:26 AM
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brdtee
Posted 2011-08-15 5:15 AM (#284704 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: RE: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Pieksamaki, Finland, Europe		darn! The information was even closer than I realized!

The color combination of the car left me bothered and also the license plates NSO-14 sounded also somewhat familiar because there were many short NSO-letterserie plates on cars registered in our area in the 89/90. Then after sending out earlier message I remembered there actually was similarly colored 1961 Chrysler in the nearby village back in the 1990s and when I checked this... BINGO! the car was actually NSO-14! It was featured in one page short story in the Finnish "V8-Magazine" back in the 1992, the issue 1/92 (I might have extra copy of this, let me check my magazine collection).

The car was bought from California and shipped to Finland during 1986-1987. It was in somewhat driveable condition but in need of a restoration. Chrysler was brought to Finland by private car import agent (Mr. Tuurni I guess) for an old gentleman named Mr. Jaakko "Jaska" Ikävalko who lived in a small village named Haukivuori. It's about 35 kilometres from the city of Pieksämäki which I live in. The car was then restored by Mr. Ikävalko himself at the garage of the local gas and service station. Mr. Ikävalko did rust repair metal works himself as he was retired metal expert. The article mentions that the trunk floor was handmade from 1mm sheetmetal. The article tells us that the transmission was rebuilt by well-known Finnish transmission expert J. Husso. Mr. Ikävalko says in the article that the engine was in such good shape, it needed only to be cleaned well, oils changed and carburetor repair kit installed. The seats were re-upholstered with original materials. After the rust repairs the body was painted in original color. This restoration took several years and the car was registered in Finland in 1989 as it is said in the paperwork you have.

Mr. Ikävalko owned the car at least for five years, as the magazine article was made in 1992. By that time he was quite old and still had a small kiosk in Haukivuori. He used to wear a cowboy hat while he drove his Windsor and the villagers friendly nicknamed him as "The J.R. of Haukivuori" (as J.R. from the 1980s popular television series "Dallas") or sometimes as "James Dean of Haukivuori" (as there had been a song titled "James Dean at the railwaystation of Haukivuori", even the song actually had nothing to do with Mr. Ikävalko).

I remember seeing the car sometimes parked there while passing Haukivuori. I guess after Mr. Ikävalko joined the heavenly cruisers and left this world the car ended up being sold? I am not sure but I recall he might have died in 1993-1994 or maybe I'll confuse this to someone else with an old car in the region. Back then I was the secretary of the local US car club and that's why I have some faded memories of these guys with US cars around our city. Let's see if we got some extra information about these later Finnish years of the car from the Overdrive.fi forums.

Edited by brdtee 2011-08-15 9:45 AM




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hemidenis
Posted 2011-08-15 10:09 AM (#284737 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Northen Virginia		Amazing story if is the same car. That is a rare color combination, “Tuscan bronze” roof and “Sahara sand” on the body, after more than 12 looking this is the 3th car I ever see with this color combo, besides my Newport it was a station wagon on Hershey years go.
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wizard
Posted 2011-08-15 3:49 PM (#284769 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island		This really makes me happy to read about!!! A member asks for help and gets it swift and informative. We are a great group here guys - lets keep up the good work.
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Windsor Wendy
Posted 2011-08-15 7:13 PM (#284795 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!


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Location: Netherlands		Wow Brdtee...what can we say....this information is just amazing!! 100% sure, this is our car!! In the picture the driver side headlight bezel has a crease with a small crack just under the top light, we have this exact same bezel!!
Thank you soooo much for researching and going to so much effort for us...and it has really brought the car to life for us even more to know this much more of it's history. (we knew all its history since 1995) It's nice to know that the car was once owned by such a character as Mr Ikävalko. I might even have to get a cowboy hat for Mr. Ikävalko on the back shelf once the car is finished!

Do you think anyone who would have a copy of this magazine would consider selling to us? It would be fantastic to have it...as well as to get the article fully translated...
If the magazine is still going they might do a back issue?
I don't suppose it's mentioned in the article what the mileage was on the car then? Just curious you see...

Thanks also for posting it on the overdrive.fi forum, we found the post but you were right, we didnt understand more than about 5 words, hahaha!
It would be almost too good to be true if more information on it's later Finnish years would turn up, she was exported to Holland in 95 so only 2-3 years are missing.
Maybe after all these discoveries we can start finding out about her first 25 years on the Californian side....


We can certainly vouch for Mr Ikävalko's rustproofing abilities...the bitumen undercoat was EVERYWHERE on the car and IN the car.......trunk, inside the quarter panels, inside the doors, everything including the engine was covered in about half an inch of coating, in some places even more, which was a pain to remove but did do us a big favour as the metal underneath was factory condition...there was very little rust on the car as a whole...the only place that was bad was the trunk lip.
We think Mr Ikävalko can look down and smile, knowing his baby has found a real good home where she is much loved, his car will be better than ever....
Not so sure if he's going to like our plans for Betty, new interior and exterior with plenty of rubber all round.......

So it's a very rare color combo eh? (Thanks for the input too Hemidenis), kinda hard to have to hear, as our plans were very different....We're sure we will turn some peoples stomach but the plan was a dark Anthracite with the roof in the original Tuscan Bronze, red/black custom leather interior, sorry to all the purist guys here but it will probably happen.....unless somebody else now comes and tells us it was owned by somebody famous on the Californian side too, hahaha!

Most of the work has been done now, she's back on her wheels now prepping for paint, interior is empty and clean, all rust repaired, trunk lip restored, new upper/lower control arm bushings, new ball joints, front/rear disc brakes, new front/rear shocks, tons of powdercoated parts, need carpet and headliner, we're getting there....
I'll try to include some pics here, not sure if it 'll work...

Many, many thanks for all your help guys, it's highly appreciated...Brdtee, we owe you a big one!!
Please let us know if there's anything we can do for you from Holland...

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Windsor Wendy
Posted 2011-08-15 7:27 PM (#284797 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!


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Location: Netherlands		Sorry pics didn't make it in our reply, so here they are.....



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hemidenis
Posted 2011-08-15 10:16 PM (#284840 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Northen Virginia		I would go with he original color just because that make this cars so different from any others, worst case scenario i will pick some of the others original colors for that year. But tastes and restoration routes are always different.
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brdtee
Posted 2011-08-15 11:22 PM (#284853 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Pieksamaki, Finland, Europe		Glad to hear I could help you with the car's history. When I bought my Windsor I got plenty of help here so I know the feeling

I think I might have an extra copy of the V8-Magazine 1/1992 as I have collected Finnish automotive magazines. If I find it I would like to send it to you because owning one such magazine brings you much more joy than owning two of them to me. Send your postal adress to me as private message.

I did some extra research yesterday and I might get also some extra information about the car. I contacted some people who knew Mr. Ikävalko and if they reply, I guess we might get to know more how he got the car, what else he did to it and how it ended up in Germany. I have also tried to contact the import agent so he could tell us where in California the car was bought and who did sell it there. Could it be possible that his last name is "Tuura" not "Tuurn" as mentioned by someone in earlier posts?

I think you should build up the car in a way that pleases you most. If it's not the originality, it's just fine. Go with your feelings to get a car that pleasures you most. I guess Mr. Ikävalko was also restoring and driving the Windsor for his pleasure, not to restore it to 101% originality.

Edited by brdtee 2011-08-15 11:35 PM
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Windsor Wendy
Posted 2011-08-16 1:43 PM (#284907 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!


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Location: Netherlands		Thanks again for all the efforts, we never would have thought our request would lead to this amazing discovery story.
Your offer on the magazine is fantastic, we're ever so grateful...Sending you a PM. Please let us know if we can do anything in return!

We checked the title very closely and you are right! The name is indeed TuurA and not TuurN, very hard to see as the last letter is exactly on the crease in the paper. In full the last line says: ERIK. EHDOT : MAAHANTUOJA ARI TUURA , KALAJOKI
We've learned far more than we hoped for, would be almost unbelievable if the info story would go even further.....

We have the same thoughts on building up our Betty, we want to keep her forever and think she should fit our personalities and not the other way around, we never ride factory stock motorcycles either.... I've been building hand made bikes for over 20 years, but in this case nothing will get changed that can not be put back...
Therefor also not sure what to do about keeping or selling all original parts like the brakes and the full interior upholstery and the steering wheel as we've got a nice one in red, it's off a Newport so sadly without the clear sections.....All advice welcome...
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wizard
Posted 2011-08-16 2:02 PM (#284909 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island		We have a man in Sweden who renovates the clear steering wheels - Magnus Stade "Gittans Rattar", he fixed my steering wheel for me. PM me if you want his contact informations.
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Windsor Wendy
Posted 2011-08-16 2:23 PM (#284914 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!


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Location: Netherlands		Just ment to say our "new" red steering wheel is a solid red all over, not red and clear with clear sections missing, thought the Newports didn't come with clear sections...
Just curious, does he just fix them or does he properly recast the whole wheel in clear and then spray the center? Any idea on what he charges?
Been reading the thread on the '61 steering wheels and recasting process and would be interested having one recast if the price is acceptable....
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wizard
Posted 2011-08-16 2:58 PM (#284918 - in reply to #284552)
Subject: Re: '61 Windsor from Finland....Help needed!



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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island		I just sent a PM to you - check your forum post box
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