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| Hello, just a "newbie" to this site - I recently bought a "ruff" 1961 Phoenix 2-dr HDTP and will need some help decoding the VIN & Fender Tag. I was hoping that this group could help me figure out what I have. I've got pics of VIN and Fender Tag and will figure out how to post them.
Any info is appreciated - Many Thanks, Reed in Neb.
 (1961 Phoenix 005.jpg)
 (1961 Phoenix 008.jpg)
 (1961 Phoenix 009.jpg)
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 1961 Phoenix 005.jpg (86KB - 338 downloads)
1961 Phoenix 008.jpg (83KB - 347 downloads)
1961 Phoenix 009.jpg (54KB - 286 downloads)
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Member
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| Here's a pic of a missing emblem by the rear LH side below the trunk lip area - Thank you, Reed in Neb.
 (1961 Phoenix 011.jpg)
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1961 Phoenix 011.jpg (37KB - 285 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 2612
  
Location: Parts Unknown |
Cool  post more pics please  I'll have to check (or maybe someone else can) the book Mr. Davis made about
these (D500) cars - it might be a Ram car or a 4bbl 361 car - I'm not where my book is at the moment -
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Member
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| I'll finish cleaning the ol' girl and post some pics - The body has been near a cornfield in Iowa for years - has many spider friends and layers of tree sap - LOL
I checked with Mr. Davis but no luck - but Darrell told me to send in the info to Chrysler Historical, especially with the D500 emblem area on the trunk area.
Many Thanks,
Reed in Neb. / 308-380-8630 |
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Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
My GUESS is it's a 361 4bbl D-500 - Mr. Davis' book only has the Ram cars in it -
Keep us posted ! ! !
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Member
Posts: 15
| Beside Chrysler and D. Davis, is there anyone else to contact ref. decoding the Fender Tag ?
Many Thanks, Reed / 308-380-8630 |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
 
Location: bishop, ca | Hello, Reed; welcome aboard!
Yes, you should ASAP buy a copy of your car's IBM Build card.
I don't see a D500 coding for your car, on the P/T plate, although the body panel image clearly shows the prior
existence of the 1961 D500 emblem, on your Phoenix 2-door hardtop, with the "red vinyl" interior motif.
I can't make-out its PNT code, but "Vermillion" is "P", and if that second letter is an "L", that would be "Silver
Gray Poly (metallic)".
Its Scheduled build date was o.o.a. 6/19/61.
You should check under the rear seat, to see if your car's Broadcast Sheet might still be wedged under the seat
springing.
That document is so valuable, that, rather than tear it up, getting it out of the seat, the seat cushion should be
separated from the seat-assembly.
The Broadcast Sheet is printed pretty-much in plain language, compared to the numbers that are printed onto
the 1961 IBM card.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Just had a very nice conversation with Reed, about his car.
It truly IS a very-small Mopar WORLD.
No engine still in the car, but, it apparently it may have the big 12" brakes on it, and the
HD suspension.
No Broadcast Sheet(s) found, either, altho there is the remote possibility that one might
be found lying under the carpeting.
The car was delivered to an Iowa dealership, and it appears to be a heavily loaded 3-speed
stick(!!) car, and somebody knew, or cared-enough, to remove the D500 emblem (and its
engine/tranny) from the car, even though the car is not coded as being an OEM D500 model.
The car's IBM card will be real interesting to see.
Edited by d500neil 2011-10-06 7:23 PM
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Expert
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Location: Parts Unknown | d500neil - 2011-10-06 7:13 PM
Just had a very nice conversation with Reed, about his car.
It truly IS a very-small Mopar WORLD.
No engine still in the car, but, it apparently it may have the big 12" brakes on it, and the
HD suspension.
No Broadcast Sheet(s) found, either, altho there is the remote possibility that one might
be found lying under the carpeting.
The car was delivered to an Iowa dealership, and it appears to be a heavily loaded 3-speed
stick(!!) car, and somebody knew, or cared-enough, to remove the D500 emblem (and its
engine/tranny) from the car, even though the car is not coded as being an OEM D500 model.
The car's IBM card will be real interesting to see.
VERY COOL . . .
Edited by B/G 61 2011-10-06 8:05 PM
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | ,,,,, doesn't have the stone/gravel shields, or rear bumper guard, does it? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | It's got stone guards; not sure about the rear bumper guard (yet).
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | guess i'm going blind , but don't the 500 mounting look a little low and keeping in mind it's probably not a 500 ----------------------------------------------------------------------later |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Just had another conversation with Reed.
First, Rick; no; no rear bumper guard on the car.
Among its observed options are 'Speed Warning' control(?), on the dashboard,
rear speaker, padded dash, power steering, manual-brakes, but the brakes are 12"ers
and the car has 5 1/2 leaf springs, and the right T/bar has a P/N ending in "610".
Does anyone have a Parts Book for 1961, to confirm the application of 610/611 T/bars???
Its also got dual rear view mirrors and all-tinted glass (W/S is non-shaded), and the rear
seat is non-padded, but, its got the Jiffy Jet system in it, and a Map Light and day/Nite mirror.
The radio has a rear-deck antenna.
Here's another D500 emblem, which shows its installation to be similar to Reed's car's emblem.
Reed's car has (had-) the lower trim-molding, which 'this' white car did not have (no mounting-holes)
on it.
Reed is today ordering a copy of his car's IBM Build Card.
BTW, as a MoPar drag-racer researcher/collector, Reed has asked if anyone might know the whereabouts of Al Ekstrand's ("Lawman") 1961 Dodge race car, as it was factory purpose-built for his campaigning of it.
 (PICT3420.JPG)
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PICT3420.JPG (88KB - 288 downloads)
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Location: Parts Unknown | d500neil - 2011-10-07 4:56 PM
BTW, as a MoPar drag-racer researcher/collector, Reed has asked if anyone might know the whereabouts of Al Ekstrand's ("Lawman") 1961 Dodge race car, as it was factory purpose-built for his campaigning of it.
I've been having dreams once a week about the Ramchargers '61 Dodge that Ekstrand drove since I was 15 yrs old 
Can't believe no one has made one . . .
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Mike, what about the 610/611 T/bars?
HD, or standard?
I don't think that I've ever dreamed about 61 Dodges...I thought that Ekstrand's car was different from the Ramcharger's car.
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Wise Old Village Idiot
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Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | d500neil - 2011-10-07 4:56 AM
Just had another conversation with Reed.
First, Rick; no; no rear bumper guard on the car.
manual-brakes, but the brakes are 12"ers
and the car has 5 1/2 leaf sprigs and the right T/bar has a P/N ending in "610".
Does anyone have a Parts Book for 1961, to confirm the application of 610/611 T/bars???
OK there O D-500 one! 1825 610 1825 611 Right standard, left standard wagon 2 seat W/O sway bar. Right standard, left standard W/O sway bar except wagon. Dart and Polara models.
The HD bar# is 1825 606 and 607. The 'xtreme' duty bar is # 1825 608 and 609 Dart and Polara.
The 12 X 2 1/2 brakes are 2196 092 for HD Dart/Polara The 12 X 2 1/2 brakes COP Car Dart/Polara is 1879 690 I'm gonna hafts to scan the whole page, for there is a whole mess of differnt part #'s for differnt parts for ecah set up/ Standard 11 X 2, 11 X 2 1/2. HD 12 X 2/1/2.
Who do I talk to about the shields? You or him. He is the one with the car, right? Or are you 'care taker' of this thing now?
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Torsion Bar.pdf (163KB - 303 downloads)
Brake Shoes.pdf (207KB - 269 downloads)
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Location: Parts Unknown | d500neil - 2011-10-07 8:56 PM
Mike, what about the 610/611 T/bars?
HD, or standard?
I don't think that I've ever dreamed about 61 Dodges...I thought that Ekstrand's car was different from the Ramcharger's car.
Ekstrand and Jim Thornton drove the Ramchargers '61 Dodge - Ekstrand wasn't even a "member"
of the Ramchargers then - He just had the rep of being a good racer/shifter so he got the seat (with Thornton) . . .
Can-man answered the T-bar question . . .
I had 610/611's on my old 361 D-500 Dodge . . . I'm still bettin this here one is also a 361 car . . .
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Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
Single 4bbl . . . No Rams on the 361's in '61 . . .
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| Rick, I hadn't had time to post anything but have been trying to learn about these 61's - feel free to call me at: 308-380-8630 ref. any questions esp. the stoneguards - would be happy to talk to anyone about these ol' MoPars. Neil has ben posting the info I gave him, figured it might interest someone - I appreciate any help/info and if I can help anyone else, contact me please. Hopefully the weather will be good this weekend so I can finish cleaning the ol' brute and take pics to post here.
Many Thanks, Reed in Neb.
PS. Here's a pic of a friend of mine's race car from about 1963 - he was second owner.
Edited by RaceCarRegistry 2011-10-08 9:04 AM
 (White 61 Dodge 034.jpg)
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White 61 Dodge 034.jpg (108KB - 288 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | From the "R" Series Lancer-Dart-Polara parts catalgue, October 1960, 81-690-0204, for Dodge Dart V8 & Polara models :
W/O sway eliminator - 1825 610-1
With sway eliminator, wagon - 1825 604-5
Heavy-duty, with sway eliminator - 1825 606-7
Heavy-duty, with sway elminator, Police Cars - 1825 606-7
Heavy-duty - 1825 608-9
Even numbers are for the right side and odd for the left.
The same bars are used on Darts, Plymouths, DeSotos and 122" wheelbase Chryslers. 126" wheelbase Chryslers (New Yorker, 300-G) used numbers 1825 7XX.
Edited by Chrycoman 2011-10-08 4:01 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The 61 Torsion bars are apparently NOT logically numerically numbered like the 57 T/bars are.
In 1957, a smaller torsion bar number confirms a lighter-strength bar, than a higher-numbered bar.
The 604/605 bars, above, should logically, be 'lighter-strength' than the 610/611 bars, because the 604/605 T/bars are assisted by a sway bar, that the 'heavier(?)' 610/611 torsion-bar cars do not have, in their cars.
But, the HD T/bars: 606/607, and 608/609 are lower numbered than the 610/611 bars that are on Reed's car.
So, maybe, the 610/611 T/bars are the lightest-weight bars, even tho they do not have a sway bar installation, or
maybe, the 610/611 T/bars were a late-addition to the 61's, and, so, were arbitrarily assigned P/N's that happen
to be higher than the HD T/bars (606/607 & 608/609)???
A drag race car would want to have as light-weight T/bars as possible (and, it wouldn't want/need to have a sway bar on it, either), for optimal weight transfer.
Reed's car does have the 5 1/2 leaf springs in the car, which should be HD items (4, or 4 1/2 leafs should have been 'standard' equipment on the Phoenix models).
In the case of the '57's, the Custom Royals got the lightest V/8 T/bars: 950/951, because the CRL's have a standard sway bar.
The Coronets & Royals did NOT have sway bars, and so they got the 'heavier' 952/953 T/bars (which happened to be
the optional HD bars for the CRL's).
The optional (really-)HD T/bars for the Coros/Roys were 956/957----which were the standard T/bars on the D501
race car models.
Edited by d500neil 2011-10-08 4:53 PM
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Expert
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Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2011-10-06 6:19 PM
Hello, Reed; welcome aboard!
Yes, you should ASAP buy a copy of your car's IBM Build card.
I don't see a D500 coding for your car, on the P/T plate, although the body panel image clearly shows the prior
existence of the 1961 D500 emblem, on your Phoenix 2-door hardtop, with the "red vinyl" interior motif.
I can't make-out its PNT code, but "Vermillion" is "P", and if that second letter is an "L", that would be "Silver
Gray Poly (metallic)".
Its Scheduled build date was o.o.a. 6/19/61.
You should check under the rear seat, to see if your car's Broadcast Sheet might still be wedged under the seat
springing.
That document is so valuable, that, rather than tear it up, getting it out of the seat, the seat cushion should be
separated from the seat-assembly.
The Broadcast Sheet is printed pretty-much in plain language, compared to the numbers that are printed onto
the 1961 IBM card.
The paint codes were alpha-alpha-numeric (AA1). Thus we can see the last two digits in the paint code. The "P" is the second letter while the final digit is "1". The paint scheme is monochromatic, as per the "1", which means the first letter is also "P". The car was painted in one colour - Vermilion.
Usually there is a space between the Scheduled Build Date and the sequence number in the Shipping Order Number, but on this tag there is not. As a result all entries on the bottom row of the tag after the SON are placed one space to the left.
The body number - 532
5 - Dodge V8
3 - Dart Phoenix
2 - 2-door hardtop
The trim code - 325
red vinyl
The code under the "A" is 0, which was not commonly used by Chrysler for the final number of a sales code.
Sales codes for the 1961 engnines -
352 - 318 V8 with 4-bbl carb
353 - 361 V8 with 4-bbl carb
355 - 383 V8 with 4-bbl carb
356 - 383 V8 with 2, 4-bbl carbs and cross ram induction
357 - 383 V8 with 4-bbl carb & dual exhaust
359 - 225 cid slant six (used on Valiant & Lancer)
Do not have codes for the 413 V8 engines.
On the 1961 Dodge Dart, the V8 engines were -
318 V8 with 2-bbl carb (standard engines were not put on the data tag)
318 V8 with 4-bbl carb (Dart V8 with Power Package - available only with Torqueflite)
361 V8 with 4-bbl carb (D-500 at time of 1961 intro)
Later the 383 and 413 engines (4-bbl and 2, 4-bbl) were added to the option list.
The VIN 5317183985
5 - Dodge V8
3 - Dart Phoenix
1 - 1961 model year
7 - St.Louis, MO, assembly plant
183985 - 83,985th car off the St.Louis line of a total of 93,744 Valiants, Plymouths, Lancers and Darts.
St.Louis built 25,391 1961 Darts.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The factory name, for the engine option codes, as Bill shows, is :"Engine Power Pack(age)".
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Regular
Posts: 75
Location: Wilkinson, Indiana | Hey Rick,
I have a set of stone guards that I will not be needing. I am looking for an excellent hood and trunk lid for a 61 pioneer. The guards are in fair shape . They need a little tlc and polishing but are very restorable . Let me know if your intereted or have any other parts for a 61? John |
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | Bless You my child! Are those shields '61 Dodge ONLY, or are they '60-'61 Ply and '60 Dart? They almost have to be side by side to tell the differnce. Can you post pics, please? Oh, are the mounting 'clips' there? The bolts can be broke off, just need the clips.
THANKS |
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | I sent you an email!!!! |
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Member
Posts: 15
| I want to Thank everyone for their helpful info ! Many Thanks !
Weather and time haven't permitted me to take more pics but I will soon.
Update ref. the car: There's a good chance that I'll be able to talk to the grandson of the original owner in Iowa.
Also, the dealership is still there in Granger, IA and I have them checking to see if there's any records.
Again, Many Thanks,
Reed in Neb.
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Member
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| Well, the dealership called me back - No records -- Reed in Neb. |
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | Hey John! Sent you a PM also,,,,,,,. I know where you can get yer body parts!
Reed! You get any more info on that '61 from the grandson? |
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Member
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| Just talked to the gentleman that bought the car out of a field in Iowa - Knows the car had been sitting there for 25+ years on the first/original owner's farm. The original owner has passed years ago but the widow said that in the late 70's or so, a guy from Idaho(?) came thru town and saw the car and tried to buy parts off it but the farmer told him "no sale". Next morning the parts had been stripped from the car including the "500" emblem - imagine that ! The son of the farmer told him it was a 383 dual-quad/ 3-sp stick car originally but who knows until I get info back from Ma Chrysler. No "cut-outs" on the inner wheelwells - what happened to the drivetrain is unknown at this time..
Been gone for a week+, sorry about the delayed response,
Many Thanks,
Reed in Neb. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Waitin on the IBM.....!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1060
Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | |
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| Still nothing back from Ma Chrsyler !
Here's some pics of the ruff ol' girl.
Reed in Neb.
 (1961 Phoenix 043.jpg)
 (1961 Phoenix 047.jpg)
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1961 Phoenix 043.jpg (57KB - 542 downloads)
1961 Phoenix 047.jpg (63KB - 399 downloads)
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Posts: 15
| More ---
 (1961 Phoenix 035.jpg)
 (1961 Phoenix 013.jpg)
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1961 Phoenix 035.jpg (73KB - 245 downloads)
1961 Phoenix 013.jpg (80KB - 255 downloads)
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | .............. sigh, there look to be a decent pr. of stone shields,,,,,,,. too bad it doesn't have a rear bumper guard. |
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Member
Posts: 15
| More II ------
 (1961 Phoenix 049.jpg)
 (1961 Phoenix 053.jpg)
 (1961 Phoenix 054.jpg)
 (1961 Phoenix 058.jpg)
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1961 Phoenix 049.jpg (98KB - 243 downloads)
1961 Phoenix 053.jpg (74KB - 247 downloads)
1961 Phoenix 054.jpg (66KB - 408 downloads)
1961 Phoenix 058.jpg (48KB - 238 downloads)
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Posts: 15
| Last pics -- Reed in Neb.
 (1961 Phoenix 040.jpg)
 (1961 Phoenix 046.jpg)
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1961 Phoenix 040.jpg (78KB - 281 downloads)
1961 Phoenix 046.jpg (55KB - 288 downloads)
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | That's the first time, I've seen a three on the tree, AND power Steering! How was the linkage hooked up? In the past MoPars, the column linkage interfiered with the size of the PS box! If one wanted a manual trans, couldn't get PS! |
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | Somebody on here was lookin' for the 2-door sil plates. |
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Member
Posts: 15
| This help any ??
 (1961 Phoenix 038.jpg)
 (1961 Phoenix 037.jpg)
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1961 Phoenix 038.jpg (73KB - 265 downloads)
1961 Phoenix 037.jpg (73KB - 307 downloads)
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | Wonder what that 'extra' 1/4" or 5/16" strap is for, welded next to the motor mount? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 466
Location: Vancouver, Washington | She looks like mine when I started |
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Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown | alumcanTandThd - 2011-11-21 6:52 PM
Wonder what that 'extra' 1/4" or 5/16" strap is for, welded next to the motor mount?
Looks like the motor mounts were cut out and those "straps" were holdin the engine in place . . .
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Judging by the aging/oxidation on the areas of the former motor mounts, and those straps, the OEM motor's
been gone for a long time.
It also looks like the positioning-installation of the replacement engine mounts is considerably different from that of
the OEM-Mope, unless the reconfiguration was merely to provide a VERY solid engine attachment to the
frame, for the OEM engine.
You'd think that the engine torque might have distorted the new (kinda-wimpy looking) solid mounts.
Edited by d500neil 2011-11-22 4:09 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
The linkage on the firewall from the gas pedal is "Ram-specific" (in Ram cars)
This one looks a little different than mine does . . . I hope the hold up from Ma MoPar
on the build info isn't because they can't find the micro-film . . . not all micro-film was
"readable"
LOVE THESE '61's ! ! !
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Member
Posts: 15
| Just got this email from Chrysler:
Dear Mr. Koeppe,
Your e-mail was forwarded to the Chrysler Group Archives for response.
Unfortunately, at this time we are unable to research your request. The archives has temporarily suspended answering research requests so that our staff can concentrate on several large projects. We hope that these projects will enable us to provide faster and more comprehensive services to our customers. We anticipate being able to answer requests beginning in early February of 2012. Please contact us at that time.
Thank you for your patience in this matter.
Best regards,
Brandt Rosenbusch
Manager - Historical Services
Chrysler Group LLC |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | So, what day is February 1, 2012?
A Wednesday; contact them, then!
You can also send a reply to Brandt's nice message, so that he/they might remember you, on 2/1/12.
If we were only interested in something 'easy'; we'd all be driving Chubbies.
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Posts: 15
| All we can do is wait - soon as I get anything, I'll let you'all know - Reed in Neb. |
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Regular
Posts: 93
Location: Albuquerque, NM | Great dash. These cars have so many super cool atomic/space age features; I'm always finding new things with each car posted here. A question - what is the gauge below the speedo and between the temp and fuel?
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I was told that it registers the impedance of the flux capacitor.
Standard equipment on the fast '61 Dodges.
Edited by d500neil 2011-12-16 3:32 PM
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1961 Dodge Phoenix - Need help with decoding
