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58 Plymouth Sedan
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-02-22 4:54 PM (#309119)
Subject: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Nebraska		Just brought it home this weekend. It has a 241 hemi with a 3 speed with overdrive. I have most of the trim but do need a few parts. It hasn't run in a few years but it does turn over. I filled the cylinders with oil and oiled up the top and and letting it soak until the weekend before I start it. If it doesn't run it will probably get a big block and a 4 spd. It has solid rust free floors and trunk floor. I can't wait to have a 58 on the road again.





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d500neil
Posted 2012-02-22 6:17 PM (#309134 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		Nice score, Todd!

How do you know that it's a 241?

A 241 would be either a 1953 or a 1954 Dodge Hemi.

Here's some background info to whet (wet-) your whistle...

In 1953, the 241.1 c.i.d. Red Ram (Hemi) V/8 was introduced.

It had a bore of 3 7/16" and a stroke of 3 1/4" (over-square), and a c.r. of 7.1: 1

It generated 140 (gross, at 4,400 RPM) HP and 200 ftlbs of torque at only 2,000 rpm.

In 1954, the engine's power (its c.i.d. was increased to 241.3) was increased to 150 (at the same 4,400 RPM), by shaving
the heads to provide a c.r. of 7.5: 1 which increased torque to 222 (at 2,400 RPM).

A 1953 engine will be stamped D44-1xxx and a 54 model will be stamped D50-1xxx .

Tom McCahill was very impressed with the performance prospects for the 3 speed manual/o.d. transmission.

The 241 engine would have a restrictive 2-bbl carb and single exhaust.

Increasing its carb/camshaft/exhausts/headers will do wonders for that vintage hot rod look, and performance.

Your engine should have a dual-points distributor on it, which will allow you to install a Pertronix under-cap electronic-
ignition system in it.

Think I've got specs on the 241 dissie's mechanical advancements, but, what is its "IAZ" part number?

When you remove the distributor, you should check to see if its vacuum advance is still working, and also see what its
small stamping number may be, on its lever-arm?

Having a shop Modify that dissie, to increase and to dial-in its advancements will greatly and inexpensively enhance
its performance.

I'll send you some literature on your engine, and its performance/hop-up prospects.






Edited by d500neil 2012-02-22 6:38 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2012-02-22 6:27 PM (#309136 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		Here's some literature....



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twistedpower
Posted 2012-02-22 6:43 PM (#309139 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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nice ride,the bigblock will be sure cool,,yet the hemi sounds interesting
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d500neil
Posted 2012-02-22 7:19 PM (#309144 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		The Hemi/3-sped o.d. will be KOOL, and properly vintage/retro looking.



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savoy_man
Posted 2012-02-22 8:53 PM (#309169 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Nebraska		Neil,

Thanks for the info. I was told it was a 241 but to be honest I haven't checked on that for sure yet. It is a red ram but I hadn't done the research for numbers. Where are the numbers stamped on the engine and how do I decode them. I also have been some conflicting instructions on how to use the overdrive. The 58 has a lever in the dash that looks like it turns. I don't think it pulls out. I've also read different things on whether you can have the OD engaged in reverse and what not. Still gotta do some more research on that.

It's funny because I used to have a 58 sedan that I built a long time ago that I put a 330 Desoto hemi in and I never should have gotten rid of that car. Now I'm starting over with the same thing.

My old car...




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d500neil
Posted 2012-02-22 9:38 PM (#309187 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		The engine number will be stamped at the base of the oil filler tube.

The engine might be a 1955 Hemi, in case the engine will be stamped : D553-1xxx

If it's a 56, it will be stamped D500-1xxx

The 53-55 Hemis are very understressed; nice looking rides, up above !

The heads, if not previously overhauled, could be cleaned up/ported and have hardened valve seats installed.

Unless the engine is really going to be stressed, like pulling a boat/trailer or raced, the lead that has been deposited around
the seat area should be sufficient to protect the area from valve recission.

But, if the heads are off of it, the SOP is to install those stellite seats 'just-because' you are working around there.




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savoy_man
Posted 2012-02-22 9:50 PM (#309190 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Nebraska		Neil,

The number stamped is D502-I09174

Thanks,
Todd
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d500neil
Posted 2012-02-23 12:49 AM (#309215 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		Ok; "502" would identify the top-of-line 1954 Coronet series, which engine does have the 7.5:1 c.r. .

Its distributor is the dual point IAZ 4003A, according to the AMA Specification sheets; I don't have that 1954 dissie's
specs recorded, but, I'll see what I can do.




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twistedpower
Posted 2012-02-23 1:20 AM (#309222 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Posts: 53
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do most of ya change the wheel lug bolts to regular studs and nutts?
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ttotired
Posted 2012-02-23 9:27 AM (#309259 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Perth Australia		Personally, no

I was always tought not to mess with what isnt broken

Although in saying that, it just occured to me that the wheel studs will most
likely be 50+ years old and would have put up with a lot of abuse in that time, maybe
they are broken (stretched, metal fatigue?)

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savoy_man
Posted 2012-02-23 9:33 AM (#309262 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Nebraska		I have never switched them in the sense you are talking. I have switched out the spindles on the front for Lebaron discs and swapped for a later model 8 3/4 rear and that got me regular studs instead of lug bolts. I have wondered how easy it would be to drill them out and add studs though. I'm a big fan of mags on my cars.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2012-02-23 11:03 AM (#309271 - in reply to #309262)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Parts Unknown		I'm a big fan of blackwalls and dog dishies on my dumpy green 58 Plymouth sedan.
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d500neil
Posted 2012-02-23 2:55 PM (#309306 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Location: bishop, ca		Like Mick says, just unbolt the wheels (left sides go off clock-wize) and inspect the threads.

It's usually the rear threads that can get worn, from too-many-times pulling off the rear brake assemblies.

Todd, what you could start doing is checking ebay for the new 12" x 2 1/2" brake drums that are being sold,
or, you can check with Big M, on this website, for some serviceable OEM assemblies (off of Chryslers/IMPs).

Those are the big brakes; you can, then, send their shoe assemblies to Firm Feel company so that carbon metallic
linings can be bonded onto the shoes.

With new or turned drums, those modern linings, and new wheel cylinders, the brakes will be fine, and, obviously,
are a bolt-on protocol.

If you don't like their performance, you can sell them to someone else at a nice profit, and then go to the time/expense
of installing disc brakes onto the car.

Meanwhile, you should send out the master cylinder for an overhaul and orifice bushing so that it will never leak or fail.

If you do go with the Hemi, you can buy a 60's-70's Jag XJ fan clutch; they're not spendy ($45.00-ish), and it will eliminate
the noise generated by the fan, and will provide some extra performance and economy, and, they are relatively easy to
retrofit onto that engine.









Edited by d500neil 2012-02-23 7:19 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2012-02-23 5:20 PM (#309326 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		Todd, I just checked with the 1954 Dodge A.M.A. Specifications Sheets, and your car's 3-speed o.d. trannie has gearing in
it of 2.57, 1.83, 1.00, and the o.d. is .7

If your Plymouth was OEM manual transmission, it probably has the 3.73:1 rear gear in it, so, get-away in that Hemi should
not be a problem.

A 3.73 will probably allow you to start off in 2nd gear.

That .7 o.d. means that you'd be cruising in 2.61 gearing in high gear, if I understand that 'math' application.




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twistedpower
Posted 2012-02-23 9:25 PM (#309362 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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i need two left hand thread lug-bolts for my 57, and i can not find them anywhere around here,,,,anyone have a couple??

r
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d500neil
Posted 2012-02-23 9:49 PM (#309364 - in reply to #309362)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		PM sent.
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-02-27 11:54 PM (#309934 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Nebraska		The sanding has begun.





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big m
Posted 2012-02-28 1:37 PM (#309993 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Williams California		Looks to have a good solid body!!

---John
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BarnFind57
Posted 2012-02-28 1:59 PM (#309998 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Signal Mountain, TN		I agree... was it surface rust on the body or just crappy primer? It does look really solid.



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savoy_man
Posted 2012-02-28 4:26 PM (#310020 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Nebraska		It was surface rust coming through crappy primer. The body seems really solid so far except for part of the rocker where it was wrecked. Not sure how they did it but it was shoved up inside the quarter. Other than that there is just some minor rust on the bottom sides so far.



Edited by savoy_man 2012-02-28 4:29 PM




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savoy_man
Posted 2012-02-28 4:33 PM (#310021 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Nebraska		I also started the car this weekend. It ran good but when I put water in it I heard splashing on the floor. I looked for the source and it looks like the head probably has a crack in it. The little hemi will probably get extracted and a big block with a 4 spd put in its place. So I may have a hemi for sale and a factory 3 spd with factory overdrive for sale. I would be selling everything for the overdrive including the lever and dash piece.



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BarnFind57
Posted 2012-02-28 9:05 PM (#310047 - in reply to #310020)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Signal Mountain, TN
savoy_man - 2012-02-28 4:26 PM

It was surface rust coming through crappy primer.




So, pretty much the variety combo platter, then....


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JGomez
Posted 2012-02-28 9:08 PM (#310048 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan


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Location: Metro Detroit		PS - I love to look of your old car, 1 color and tinted w/ std trim, I would like to do that to my '57....
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LookForward
Posted 2012-02-28 11:44 PM (#310073 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Mistake on the Lake		Nice work, that car really does look relatively un-rusted. Any idea if it's a Nebraska native?
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-02-28 11:50 PM (#310076 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Nebraska		It was from Oklahoma. I can't imagine any 58 in Nebraska surviving that well.
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-03-05 10:11 AM (#310834 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Nebraska		More progress was made this weekend. Most of the car is stripped. It is really quite solid. The rockers are the worst part of the car. There are some patch panels on the upper part of the quarter. I still need to dig all that putty out. Not sure what happened there but it looks like the repair must have been for a big hole. The hemi was also pulled. Quite a disappointment there. I found a big hole in the side of the head. I can't believe that it ran so good with a hole like that. This means my 413 will be going in the car. Now I need to sell this 241 if anyone is interested. I also dropped the gas tank and I think it can be repaired. There is a small hole in one of the corners and a lot of scaling on the inside to be cleaned out and then sealed. I didn't get any pictures of the tank yet. I will post them later.





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twistedpower
Posted 2012-03-06 11:49 PM (#311077 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Posts: 53
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that hemi of yours is just toooo awesome, polish it and hilbourne injection,and them 8 cool tubes sticking out da hood,,i can see it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-03-07 8:58 AM (#311109 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Nebraska		I don't think I'm going to spend the time or money on the hemi at the moment. I have a 413 already built and ready to go that I think I will put in the 58. I just want to get it on the road quickly and enjoy it. I haven't had a car of my own for a few years because I've been working on cars for other people. I really need to get back behind the wheel of my own hot rod.
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BarnFind57
Posted 2012-03-07 11:16 AM (#311125 - in reply to #311109)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Signal Mountain, TN
savoy_man - 2012-03-07 8:58 AM

I don't think I'm going to spend the time or money on the hemi at the moment. I have a 413 already built and ready to go that I think I will put in the 58. I just want to get it on the road quickly and enjoy it. I haven't had a car of my own for a few years because I've been working on cars for other people. I really need to get back behind the wheel of my own hot rod.



I can completely feel you on that one....


I have been in the resto business on the side for years. It seems like everybody's stuff is getting fixed but mine just sits collecting dust. I too am looking forward to getting my own junk back on the road before long.

Yours is coming along quite nicely.





Edited by BarnFind57 2012-03-07 11:17 AM
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twistedpower
Posted 2012-03-07 2:02 PM (#311156 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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yes i've been there too,everyone else first,,,,what is the 413? and i have 3 of those hubcaps if you need them,,,,,rich
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-03-07 3:21 PM (#311170 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Nebraska		The 413 is stock bore with a 509 lift mopar cam. It has an M1 intake with Demon carb and some other external goodies like aluminum water pump and water dampener. It's a good street motor. I was going to use it for the 63 but I will probably build a 383 for that since i want the 58 on the road for now. I am probably going to use some stainless steel headers that my grandpa made for my uncle over 40 years ago for his 57 Plymouth. They don't look super great but the nostalgia aspect to me is too cool to pass up.

As for the hubcaps they are not staying on the car. It will have mags on it for sure. Thanks for the offer though.
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-03-07 3:25 PM (#311172 - in reply to #311125)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Posts: 191
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Location: Nebraska		I'm trying to get 2 cars done at once. I am doing the gasser for a friend so I have him sanding on my car while I do bodywork on his. I'm not sure how I will divide my time when the bodywork starts on my car. We put on a car show every year and we hope to have them both done for the show. It sucks putting on a show and not having your own car in it. There are others in our car club who have cars but they are Fords. We need to represent with the Mopars.
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-03-07 3:26 PM (#311173 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Posts: 191
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Location: Nebraska		BTW...how do you get the quote thing to work? I tried it on both of the last posts but nothing showed up.
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twistedpower
Posted 2012-03-07 3:55 PM (#311176 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Posts: 53
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i can't get the quote thing to work either,i'm not that good on computers,,ok the 383 would be cool for the car ,sounds like the 413 will deliver good power,,,that is why i went to a big block,i don't like being passed by toyota's and rustangs,,,,,
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-03-07 4:00 PM (#311178 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Posts: 191
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Location: Nebraska		I want some giddy up in my ride too. I had a 330 Desoto hemi in my red 58 and it looked great but had no power. Everyone would ask me if I raced it (they think every hemi is fast) and I would just laugh and say no.
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-03-27 10:37 PM (#314117 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Posts: 191
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Location: Nebraska		I've been meaning to post update pictures but life has been busy. The car is almost entirely stripped. I've started doing bodywork. I've been fixing the dings and dents with the shrinking disc. I've dismantled the extra quarter that I have. The horrible bodywork that was done to the passenger side quarter has to be fixed.





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dukeboy
Posted 2012-03-27 11:14 PM (#314120 - in reply to #314117)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Big pimpin'		NICE! That thing just screams BB and 4 gear. Love the look of those wheels. Again, NICE!

PS, just make sure you get rid of that old,weak,out dated rearend...(8 inch, which looks ALOT like an 8 3/4).
An E-body rear will bolt in it.

Edited by dukeboy 2012-03-27 11:16 PM
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-03-28 2:25 PM (#314200 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Posts: 191
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Location: Nebraska		Thanks dukeboy. I'm working on a replacement of the rear. Had a guy that was going to sell me an 8 3/4 with a 3.92 posi but he hasn't gotten back to me. I have a Ford 8 inch with a mini spool in it that i might put in there for the moment. I need a newer rear so I have an e-brake. Plus the parts for those old things are just way too expensive. I'd rather have something newer with available parts.
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JT Vincent
Posted 2012-03-28 2:46 PM (#314206 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: Jamaica Plain, MA		I love this car. I melded a 58 Savoy 2 door sedan with a burned out 300 H. Was probably similar performance wise. Dukeboy is right, I nuked the 6 cyl rear on the first day out. I used a 4.11 from an E body. I had to use a body jack to get it on the springs. Maybe 1/4 inch difference. It did nice burnouts. I really love these super light 2 door sedans.
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58sportsuburban
Posted 2012-03-28 6:54 PM (#314257 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Location: jersey		Love the look! any more pics of the maxie scoop on the car? was thinkin' of doin that to my wagon.
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-03-28 11:17 PM (#314287 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



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Posts: 191
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Location: Nebraska		Here are a few more pics. With the scoop and the roof stripped.



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LookForward
Posted 2012-04-08 7:21 PM (#315964 - in reply to #314287)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Regular

Posts: 78
252525
Location: Mistake on the Lake		Nice work! These cars really do look nice in bare metal.
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-04-09 12:42 PM (#316054 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Veteran

Posts: 191
100252525
Location: Nebraska		Here are a couple of pictures of the engine that is going in the car. The headers were made by my grandpa almost 40 years ago for my uncles 57 Plymouth. He hand built them out of stainless steel. Once I get them polished up they should look great.





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Attachments IMAG0962.jpg (100KB - 128 downloads)
Attachments IMAG0963.jpg (108KB - 236 downloads)
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58sportsuburban
Posted 2012-04-09 8:08 PM (#316136 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 449
10010010010025
Location: jersey		I have the same Valve covers on my wagon, 413 decals and all!
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BarnFind57
Posted 2012-04-11 8:34 AM (#316370 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Elite Veteran

Posts: 957
5001001001001002525
Location: Signal Mountain, TN		Hand-Me-Down custom fabbed headers.... why can't I get anything cool like that? I like.

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savoy_man
Posted 2012-04-15 10:47 PM (#317072 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Veteran

Posts: 191
100252525
Location: Nebraska		Finally have the whole thing sanded and sprayed with a coat of primer. Time to start the bodywork.





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Attachments IMAG0973.jpg (55KB - 136 downloads)
Attachments IMAG0975.jpg (54KB - 136 downloads)
Attachments IMAG0979.jpg (50KB - 125 downloads)
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-04-23 10:08 AM (#318025 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Veteran

Posts: 191
100252525
Location: Nebraska		More progress this weekend. Cut the quarter panel out and removed the 3 spd shifter lever. I also got the rear end out and started messing with the new rear. I decided to put in a Dana 60 that I had from an old Ford truck. It is the exact right width and it is a 4.10 posi. I will just need to move the spring pads which is no big deal. I put my order in to Speedway and the new ones should be here in a couple of days. The only real big issue is the 5x5.5 bolt pattern. I think I am going to try to drill out the axles and drums but maybe I will just run steel wheels for ease in the beginning.





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Attachments IMAG0983.jpg (54KB - 128 downloads)
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Attachments IMAG0987.jpg (78KB - 216 downloads)
Attachments IMAG1002.jpg (69KB - 234 downloads)
Attachments IMAG1005.jpg (50KB - 228 downloads)
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-04-23 10:14 AM (#318027 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Veteran

Posts: 191
100252525
Location: Nebraska		I took some pictures of the trunk floor and above the rear with everything out. Very little rust even though it is hard to tell from the pictures. The undercoating just flakes off to reveal the bluish grey paint. I think the original car color was copper so i am assuming this is the color they painted the trunk and under the hood? I've never had one this nice on the bottom side to see this.





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Attachments IMAG0986.jpg (53KB - 133 downloads)
Attachments IMAG0994.jpg (34KB - 130 downloads)
Attachments IMAG0995.jpg (53KB - 132 downloads)
Attachments IMAG1000.jpg (58KB - 164 downloads)
Attachments IMAG1001.jpg (80KB - 134 downloads)
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savoy_man
Posted 2012-05-07 12:35 PM (#320003 - in reply to #309119)
Subject: RE: 58 Plymouth Sedan



Veteran

Posts: 191
100252525
Location: Nebraska		More updates. I got the rear end in. I still need to take it out again to paint it but wanted to fit it first. Also have the motor mounted and the trans mount made so the drivetrain is almost complete. Everything coming together. Now I will have to take everything back out for cleaning and painting.





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Attachments IMAG1019.jpg (128KB - 145 downloads)
Attachments IMAG1018.jpg (93KB - 130 downloads)
Attachments IMAG1017.jpg (96KB - 144 downloads)
Attachments IMAG1013.jpg (80KB - 125 downloads)
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