|
|
Veteran
Posts: 114
Location: South Australia | This could well be seen as a dumb question but here goes.
Was a manual floor shift ever offered in any of the Chrysler car range in '57-'58,in particular Plymouth??
Or could have one been special ordered by any of the Chrysler racing programs?
Or i suppose has anyone ever come across one is the question?
Thanks in advance.
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 308
Location: Newcastle Australia | 1958 Plymouth Fury had a 3 speed floor shift. Later models even had an overdrive.
The Fury came with a 305 hp Golden Commando 350 sporting dual four-barrel carburetors coupled to a 10-1/2 inch heavy-duty clutch 3 speed manual transmission.
I think the terminology over there is a stick shift. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2289
 
Location: Eastern Iowa | Yes, and we were all on the lookout back in the day for "stick & hook-ups"
I fell into that trap in 1964 w/my mint condition 56 D-500 Coronet Lancer coupe.
It involved swapping a 3 speed stick set-up out of a 55 Dodge Suburban to the coupe
using a "Foxcraft floor shift kit"
It quickly turned into an unmitigated disaster a E-3 PFC could ill afford and I have regretted it to this day.
And that, mind you, was back in the days when these care were a dime a dozen so to speak,
and populated salvage yards from coast to coast.
If you have a 1/2 day or so sometime, I'll tell you all about it complete w/pictures.
Dave S.
Edited by finsruskw 2012-05-08 7:06 AM
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6500
  
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | I would love to see pics of the 3 speed floor shift Fury! Who made the shifter? Marc. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1316
Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels | lozrox58 - 2012-05-08 12:49 PM
1958 Plymouth Fury had a 3 speed floor shift. Later models even had an overdrive.
The Fury came with a 305 hp Golden Commando 350 sporting dual four-barrel carburetors coupled to a 10-1/2 inch heavy-duty clutch 3 speed manual transmission.
I don't know where you got that information, but I never heard about it ...
All books or articles I have ever read never spoke about a 3-speed floor shift in a '58 Fury.
Even the Benjaminson book ...
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4042
Location: Connecticut | lozrox58 - 2012-05-08 6:49 AM 1958 Plymouth Fury had a 3 speed floor shift. Later models even had an overdrive. The Fury came with a 305 hp Golden Commando 350 sporting dual four-barrel carburetors coupled to a 10-1/2 inch heavy-duty clutch 3 speed manual transmission. I think the terminology over there is a stick shift.
Any standard-tranny-equipped 57-9 Mopar had the shifter on the column. There were overdrives going back to the early 50s (and maybe even earlier).
Ron |
|
| |
|
Location: Under the X in Texas | The first post-WWII floor shift in a MoPar (other than a truck) was the '60 Chrysler 300F Special GT with the Pont-a-Mousson full synchro 4speed. No Chrysler product car of the '57-59 years had a factory installed floor shift. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown | StillOutThere - 2012-05-08 10:40 AM
The first post-WWII floor shift in a MoPar (other than a truck) was the '60 Chrysler 300F Special GT with the Pont-a-Mousson full synchro 4speed. No Chrysler product car of the '57-59 years had a factory installed floor shift.
1960 Valiant . . .
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 114
Location: South Australia | The reason i ask is that,I recall reading on a forum (maybe here or Plymouthcentral,it was a while ago?!)That there may have been a '57-'8 Plymouth found with a factory "looking" floor-shift.And i think for some reason Europe is ringing a bell.
Now in saying that,that dosn't mean it wasn't a later conversion,but after reading about some odd's-and-sodd's that have popped up over there like Rolands (on the ICC forum) Swiss '57 Fury with '58 pieces and 240kph speedo!and apparently there's a Suburban in France that has a GC 350 with duals and i just read that there may have been a Chrysler converted R/H drive '57 Fury here in Australia,it just made me want to ask the question?...
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6500
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | Hmmmm 1957 Fury/belvedere in Germany?
Edited by mstrug 2012-05-08 8:20 PM
 (58plymanualtranspowersteering1.jpg)
 (58plymanualtranspowersteering2.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 58plymanualtranspowersteering1.jpg (64KB - 102 downloads)
58plymanualtranspowersteering2.jpg (70KB - 118 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 114
Location: South Australia | Opps!Sorry Marc,I got that a bit mixed up!i thnk i should have read that story again!
I suppose that shows how these storys can be a bit like Chinese whispers.
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Anyone have a photo of chinese whispers ? 
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | There have been a number of discussions on this board about sticks and floor shifters.
I'm not the wiz to hunt the links up ....
As Wayne said, the first post-war floor shifter was made for the 300F and quickly the
concept got spread down range to the other makes, albeit using different shifters than
the french-made Pont-a-Mousson 300 unit used and employed behind the T-85 3-speed.
I have seen them in anything from non-300 Chryslers to Valiants, ... DeSoto, Dodge, and
Plymouth.
The early ones were genuinely FLOOR MOUNTED, with the entire mechanism hung on a
poorly welded in hump that looked quite amateur in its installation. The few weld points,
combined with the constant "rowing" of the box, caused metal fatigue in the floor pan,
making the already sloppy shifter movements even worse. This led to a number of mfr's.
producing transmission mounted shifters to replace the OEM floor mount units.
Any of these would retrofit into an earlier car, but would not be stock. |
|
| |
|
Location: Under the X in Texas | B/G 61 - 2012-05-08 3:11 PM StillOutThere - 2012-05-08 10:40 AM The first post-WWII floor shift in a MoPar (other than a truck ) was the '60 Chrysler 300F Special GT with the Pont-a-Mousson full synchro 4speed. No Chrysler product car of the '57-59 years had a factory installed floor shift. 1960 Valiant . . . Valiant! I hadn't thought of that. Have never seen a stick '60 V that I recall. Whereas I see a stick '60 300F every time I enter the barn. Thanks.
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 114
Location: South Australia | Doctor DeSoto - 2012-05-09 12:05 AM
Anyone have a photo of chinese whispers ?
Marc's photo's above are of Rolands "Belverdere/Fury" with the 240kph speedo,if that's what your after Doc?
On the current members rides page,i think the thread is "58 Plymouth wagon from France" or somthing close to that,is mention of the dual quad GC 350 Suburban in France.
And Glenn Barrett has the '57 Fury that was converted to R/H drive by Chrysler Australia.Back to L/H now.(Beautiful car too)
So was "Hurst" and the such operating in '57-8?Were Chrysler using three on the tree when racing NASCAR and the such back then?How did that play out?
Edited by muddy 2012-05-09 8:07 PM
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | As far as I know, all of the 56-58 stick car racing was done with the 3-onda-tree. I have
never seen a vintage pic of floor shifted manual in those years.
I have an aftermarket trans-mounted shifter for the T-85 that I removed from a converted
58 Plaza. Not sure when these aftermarket units came on the scene, but this particular Plaza
still had the column shifter hanging in place.
I have MY answer worked out. I will be using a 60 DeSoto floor shifter mated to a modern
5-speed (geared to 4-speed w/ overdrive) for an *almost OEM* period appearance. 
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1207
Location: Ponder, TX | A dirt track racer friend ran a '58 Plymouth with a 350 at our local track in the early sixties. There were no race quality floor shifts available at the time, so he cut a hole in the floor, ran the shift rods up through it, and shifted by manipulating the rods.
Along those lines, there was a very successful figure-8 racer in the Pacific Northwest who raced a '69 Dart with a four speed manual. Not a big deal...unless you have only one arm. I never did figure out how he did it. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
Hurst was around in '58 - really didn't start mass producing shifters till '60 . . .
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2289
Location: Eastern Iowa | I cuold shift my Dodge w/my foot.
Right arm was occupied, you know, and left arm waas on the wheel.
Dave S. |
|
| |
|
Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | Those 'special' step up to a Chrysler for a Plymouth price, cars. 61-64 Windsors/Newports all had 3-speed manual floor shifters |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1207
Location: Ponder, TX | alumcanTandThd - 2012-05-10 9:23 AM
Those 'special' step up to a Chrysler for a Plymouth price, cars. 61-64 Windsors/Newports all had 3-speed manual floor shifters
In 1964, I special ordered a '64 New Yorker hardtop with three on the floor for a customer who didn't trust automatics. It was probably a one of one. |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Doctor Desoto would have the lusties for a 61 NY'er soft top with a stick !!! 
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 114
Location: South Australia | Thanks for the input anyway,but it looks a pretty sure thing that floor shifts didn't happen in '57-8.
Just wondering if anyone might have a pic of the '60 Chrysler 300F special shifter in place?It would be very interesting to check out.
It could be a start point for a (like Doc says) "almost period appearance..." floor shift for my '57. |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | I posted photos of my shifters in an old thread, but do not have them on my laptop here
to post again. Perhaps someone knows how to pull that thread up ?
Be advised, the 60F Pont-a-Mousson shifter is altogether different than the Chrysler-made
unit offered in the other cars. The Valiant *likely* uses the same shifter mechanism, but the
shaft is quite different, with a much more dramatic bend in a shorter shaft. In 61 the shifter
ball was changed to a non-round "knob". My previously posted pix show these differences.
I am most familiar with the DeSoto and non-300 Chrysler shifters. They have a tapered shaft,
about 14" long (?), gently arcing back to hook over the bench seat. The shaft is chromed steel,
a unique, squarish black rubber boot mates it to the carpet or floor mat, with a chromed steel
ring screwed over the ass'y to pin it to the hump, which is tack-welded over a rough cut hole
in the floor.
You will think this set up is home made by the crudeness of the installation. A piece of plywood
buffers the mechanism from the flat top surface of the hump and the hole int he stock floor looks
like a chimpanzee cut it out with a torch. But I have seen enough of them to see the pattern ...
... this is how they were built originally ! 
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i guess these are the ones refered to-----------------------------------------------------------------------later
 (60-61 floor shifters.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
60-61 floor shifters.jpg (239KB - 104 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Yup ! Them's the ones. Thanks Chuck. The white ball unit is from a 60 DeSoto. The grey
knob unit is from a 61 Chrysler. I believe the only difference between them is the ball vs. knob.
One might presume that this shifter remained in production through 64 on those "Chrysler for
the a Plymouth price" cars.
I have never compared the actual shifter mechanism with those used on Valiants and Lancers,
but I would guess they are the same, with a different shaft that is shorter and more dramatically
curved.
Can't remember if I ever posted pix of the aftermarket unit I took out of a 58 Plaza. Back in
the 80's-90's, people told me it was a "Super Stock" item ... implying something akin to today's
Mopar Performance, but I really have no idea who made it. It has HEAVY brackets that bolt up
to the tranny case, getting away from the trouble prone tin-mounted OEM shifter. Oldtimers told
me these were problematic, and my DeSoto showed all the telltale metal fatigue cracks like they
described. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | The first 57 Fury I bought had been converted to a manual 3 speed and came with an aftermarket floor shifter (don't remember the brand), it worked well but the stock Plymouth trans. is very weak. I used a Hurst shifter in my other 2 Furys on the T-85 trans. and it worked very well. BTW several years ago a man in my area (Anchorage) had 3 61 Newports for sale as a package and 2 of them were factory manuals with the floor shifter and I think 2 were 2 dr. hardtops. Not sure if he still has them, they had typical rust for this area which is usually a lot. Are these cars somewhat rare? |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 114
Location: South Australia | Thanks heaps for the pic's and info,it helps a lot.
Has also got the grey matter ticking on a floor shift for my Plymouth |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 449
Location: jersey | GaryS - 2012-05-10 8:04 AM
A dirt track racer friend ran a '58 Plymouth with a 350 at our local track in the early sixties. There were no race quality floor shifts available at the time, so he cut a hole in the floor, ran the shift rods up through it, and shifted by manipulating the rods.
Along those lines, there was a very successful figure-8 racer in the Pacific Northwest who raced a '69 Dart with a four speed manual. Not a big deal...unless you have only one arm. I never did figure out how he did it.
Like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioYQzjGYcBk |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1207
Location: Ponder, TX | That's impressive, but it is in a straight line. Trying to navigate a figure-8 track with constant up and down shifts during a race still leaves me wondering.
FWIW, shifting three-on-the-tree with your arm around a girl takes somewhat the same technique...although less reach...and I did practice that trick in the days before automatic transmissions. One girlfriend was pretty good at handling the shifting duties while I operated the clutch. |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Gee, Gary .... now look what ya dun !
Start talking about girls and hand coordination and the thread goes "crickets" !
I guess this tells us something about our membership here ?
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 398
Location: Watertown South Dakota | mstrug - 2012-05-08 7:13 PM
Hmmmm 1957 Fury/belvedere in Germany?
Hmmmm indeed. Wasn't there just a recent discussion about power steering never being offered on manual transmission (column shift) cars? This car has the PS horn ring and sure looks to be a stick..... |
|
| |
|
Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | highpockets - 2012-05-16 3:16 AM
mstrug - 2012-05-08 7:13 PM
Hmmmm 1957 Fury/belvedere in Germany?
Hmmmm indeed. Wasn't there just a recent discussion about power steering never being offered on manual transmission (column shift ) cars? This car has the PS horn ring and sure looks to be a stick.....
'57- 9, right. See that 'hole' to the left of the Fury's speedo? That is where the pushbutton shifter pod was orginally installed. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | highpockets - 2012-05-16 3:16 PM
mstrug - 2012-05-08 7:13 PM
Hmmmm 1957 Fury/belvedere in Germany?
Hmmmm indeed. Wasn't there just a recent discussion about power steering never being offered on manual transmission (column shift ) cars? This car has the PS horn ring and sure looks to be a stick.....
Power steering was available on all models. The 1960-61 Valiant offered power steering only on cars with Torqueflite.
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 114
Location: South Australia | mstrug - 2012-05-08 8:13 PM
Hmmmm 1957 Fury/belvedere in Germany?
Hey Marc,I just finnished re-reading Rolands Story on the ICC forum about his Fury find,and i thought i was on the money!
It was found in a Swiss wreckers yard in "Kaufdorf",and he trailered it back to his home in Germany.turns out she was quite a mix.
Basicly a '57 Fury,but had some '58 stuff like dual headlights,no fender "V's",that sweet 240kph speedo and a couple other things that slip my mind right now.
Unfortunatly,the original motor wasn't with it (had a two bbl 318 in the boot) with a stick shift and over-drive.
He also found a '57 four door Belverdere (called it rustydere!) that was a good find as it was loaded with options,but rust had got the better of it as with the Fury.
Quite a shame as both would have been beautiful cars on the road:(
The story makes a very good read as Roland put on heaps of photo's and video. |
|
| |
Floor shift Plymouth??
