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Expert
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Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | After several years of discussion, my son and I have determined that we will rebuild out 1961 361 instead of using a larger engine. Questions- 1 Everything I have read indicates the 1961 engine was detuned to run "regular" fuel. The specs I have seen say that the 1961 is 9:1 compression and the 59-60 engines were 10:1. I have had forum members tell me that I am wrong. What are the facts? 2 If the two engines are indeed different, does anyone have knowledge of any other differences? 2.1 Should I be able to use a 1960 kit? 3. I want to squeeze more hp/torque out of this engine. Besides higher compression pistons, what are some suggestions for increasing low end performance? I have 4bbl set up and dual exhaust already. 4. What are the best sources for kits? I have been able to find very few; which is probably understandable. Two different RPM companies and Egge. I don't think I am interested in Kanter. Thanks guys and gals, Ray and son Brent We want it ready for the big show in our neighbord this summer. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | Ray, are you using the Auto trans that REQUIRES the Extended flange crank?? If NOT (1962-up Torqueflite), you can get a pretty good STROKER crank for that thing and send the cubes into the 480-ish C.I. range, but custom pistons will cost. Small bores limit the amout of Cylinder head/Valve size you can run too. One of the Engine challenge engines came apart, but made almost 600 HP with a 361. |
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Expert
Posts: 1497
Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | Yep, it is a cast iron transmission. I would be happy with 350 hp, but I don't know how to get there with this engine. Many of the builders (one Mopar shop) I have talked to have nver built a 361 and act as if they are not interested. Thanks |
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Expert
Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | Ray
Just think of The 361 as a "not bored that much" 383. Other than Pistion Size it uses every other part of a like year/ era 383.
The OEM Performance Cam Shaft Spec's became:
With the 4 bbl Carburator ( Dual Snorkel ) and Dual Exhaust.
Intake Lift .............................. 0.425"
Exhaust Lift ............................ 0.435"
Intake Opens ( BTC ) .....................18
Intake Closes ( ABC ) .....................58
Exhaust Opens ( BBC ) .................. 66
Exhaust Closes ( ATC ) .................. 14
Valve Overlap ............................... 32
Intake Valve Duration .................. 256
Exhaust Valve Duration .................260
As you can see by adding the factory OEM Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner Housing - the Dual Exhaust with a slightly different spec'd Cam Shaft the orignal 361 was a little more enhanced from other 361's such as yours.
You can enhance your 1961 361's Power with out effecting your MPG in a negitive manner ( this same information also applies to any 1959 - 1966 BB or RB MoPar Engine ) the same about by using ... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=SEPCS327... - ... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=TEM27130... .
Take a moment to look at all the data, compare prices and etc.
Rodger & Gabby
COS
Edited by Rodger 2013-03-28 12:04 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | Ray - 2013-03-28 10:59 AM
Yep, it is a cast iron transmission. I would be happy with 350 hp, but I don't know how to get there with this engine. Many of the builders (one Mopar shop) I have talked to have nver built a 361 and act as if they are not interested. Thanks
Ray, it just so happens that our own Joey C (Christines revenge here) built a 350 Golden Commando that made an impressive 340 HP with twin fours, small aftermarket camshaft, and GOOD closed chamber stock 350 heads that were masaged with 440 Valves and ported lightly. (2.080X INT. 1.740 EX.), and headers on the dyno.
I would think with a GOOD set of Mildy ported heads, 10.0:1 compression pistons, GOOD machine work, and 440 valves, and mild aftermarket camshaft with somewhere in the 225 @ .050 Duration, with something like .500 Lift, you could hit 350 HP easily with a 361; even with a single 650 CFM four BBL carb.
I'd be interested to see if it could be done relatively on the cheaper side as well.
Here's my reciepe if interested.....
Stock block 361, Bored .030 With Deck plate.
Align bored to square up crank mains.
Recondition, Stock connecting rods.
Forged/cast your choice, Pistons with about .013 "In the hole"(Below the deck surface at TDC), with Eyebrow valve reliefs if possible.
Good ".010/.010" crank forged steel stock.
Set of Closed chamber "915" 6-bolt valve cover heads, with 2.080 In. and 1.740 Ex. valves, ported lightly - (High flow Stainless, like Manley).
GOOD intake like stock twin four, or RPM Eddy aftermarket single four.
"HP" Manifolds from a leter B-body like a GTX- (Repro); Provided they fit well...
Camshaft with above mentioned specs; and valve springs to match.
Electronic ignition distributor, with GOOD ignition like MSD, or your choice.
Set timing as close to around 36-38 degrees and run Premium fuel.
Edited by dukeboy 2013-03-28 12:14 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1497
Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | Just heard from one of the perfrormance vendors that I mentioned earlier. He said that there are no aftermarker performance cams available for the 361. I guess he is no longer on my list of knowledgeable vendors. |
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | The cam specs. that rodger mentioned above,were those for a 383? I am pretty sure that the 59 and 60 GC 361s that were factory rated at 305 HP and 395 tq. had a cam with the following specs, 268 degrees and 430 lift. 24-64 and 64-24 on the opening and closing degrees. Not a big deal as Dukeboy says to get this engine to 350HP and I think you can do it without stroking if money is tight. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: STL, MO | Ray, is the Maple Grove you live in the same Maple Grove that hosts the big NHRA sportsman race? if so going to the track and talking to some of the local MoPar class racers as to who does their machine work is a easy way to find a good machine shop who can build a B motor. You probably won't find a "kit" for a 361 but so what, you can go to individual companies and buy compatible parts. Buy a copy of Mopar muscle or Action for vendors or better yet get Andy Finkbiener's ? book on how to build a B motor or look on Moparts. Chaney's recipe is solid and if you can close the the hood with the rpm intake will have good quench for ping free pump gas operation. |
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Expert
Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | Ray and Brent
"... The cam specs. that rodger mentioned above,were those for a 383?"
A quick look in any Chrysler Corperation Parts Book will show that all Cam Shafts are spec'd the same; be it they are for a Hydralic Design such as your 361 or what other Cubic Inch 361
to ~. The Standard Engines are grouped together and the Hi-Perf Engines ( Mechanical ) are grouped together. The yester-year reason for Mechanical Adjusted Valve Train assemblies
was The High RPM Tech Engineering Knowledge was not "good enough" for other than General Public Usage Yet.
This means if the 361 - 383 - or 413 had only one carburator it was Hydralic. It also means that all 361's ( 1959 to 1965 ) can use any other Hydralic Cam Shaft.
Here is the OEM 361 single carburator Cam Shaft Lift Spec's MoPar Part Number which was superceded to #2129 203 by the 1963 Production Year ...
Intake Lift .............................. 0.389"
Exhaust Lift ............................ 0.389"
This is also the same with any single Carburatored 383 or 413.
Rodger & Gabby
COS |
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | Rodger, I am still not sure of your specs, as the 2 bbl. camshaft was listed in my information as having 252 degrees and .390 lift and the 4 bbl. cam specs were as i listed above, both hydraulic. I know that any big block cam can fit any other big block as long as the sprocket is correct and I know the very few solid lifter cams that Chrysler made for big blocks had different specs. than hydraulic. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | Uh gents, just some FYI here, but there really were NO high performance camshafts in these year cars. the most bada$$ cam was "only" something like .480 lift. We have way better now... |
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | You're absolutely right Dukeboy,none of those old factory cams are worth running today and cannot compare to what's available now. I have on hand a 361, 383 and 400 and also a couple of 440s, you can guess which one is going in my 58 Plymouth with a big thumping cam. |
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Member
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Location: Frozen north | Hi there, Looks like a nice car, I had the same model only a four door- love the fins and the front end!!! I also had a 62 Windsor with a 361 2bbl. I am still impressed with the efficiency and power delivery. At 80 mph it would pull you back and float down the road oh ya my grandpa towed a holiday trailer as well  What a torque monster. My opinion would be to build it stock. I once got caught up in the "big" performance build leaving me broke and thirsty for more power. The 361 is a darn fine engine in my opinion...
Al |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | A 350 HP 361 is certainly NOT "Big" performance. It is basically a WELL tuned/built 361...Now, the engine challenge engine I mentioned? That one made almost 600 HP..THAT is a radical 361. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1060
Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | dukeboy - 2013-04-01 12:04 PM
A 350 HP 361 is certainly NOT "Big" performance. It is basically a WELL tuned/built 361...Now, the engine challenge engine I mentioned? That one made almost 600 HP..THAT is a radical 361.
Would said 361 require a fan shroud with this enhanced performance? |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | 60 Plymouth - 2013-04-02 5:03 AM
dukeboy - 2013-04-01 12:04 PM
A 350 HP 361 is certainly NOT "Big" performance. It is basically a WELL tuned/built 361...Now, the engine challenge engine I mentioned? That one made almost 600 HP..THAT is a radical 361.
Would said 361 require a fan shroud with this enhanced performance?
Why I'm glad you asked Aaron. YES! A 361 Of this caliber would REQUIRE a fan shroud and fan clutch. |
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Expert
Posts: 1497
Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | Rodger - 2013-03-30 12:29 PM Ray and Brent "... The cam specs. that rodger mentioned above,were those for a 383?" A quick look in any Chrysler Corperation Parts Book will show that all Cam Shafts are spec'd the same; be it they are for a Hydralic Design such as your 361 or what other Cubic Inch 361 to ~. The Standard Engines are grouped together and the Hi-Perf Engines ( Mechanical ) are grouped together. The yester-year reason for Mechanical Adjusted Valve Train assemblies was The High RPM Tech Engineering Knowledge was not "good enough" for other than General Public Usage Yet. This means if the 361 - 383 - or 413 had only one carburator it was Hydralic. It also means that all 361's ( 1959 to 1965 ) can use any other Hydralic Cam Shaft. Here is the OEM 361 single carburator Cam Shaft Lift Spec's MoPar Part Number which was superceded to #2129 203 by the 1963 Production Year ... Intake Lift .............................. 0.389" Exhaust Lift ............................ 0.389" This is also the same with any single Carburatored 383 or 413. Rodger & Gabby COS Rodger, pleae check your forum inbox when you can Thanks, Ray |
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Posts: 1497
Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | Handygun - 2013-03-30 12:23 PM Ray, is the Maple Grove you live in the same Maple Grove that hosts the big NHRA sportsman race? if so going to the track and talking to some of the local MoPar class racers as to who does their machine work is a easy way to find a good machine shop who can build a B motor. You probably won't find a "kit" for a 361 but so what, you can go to individual companies and buy compatible parts. Buy a copy of Mopar muscle or Action for vendors or better yet get Andy Finkbiener's ? book on how to build a B motor or look on Moparts. Chaney's recipe is solid and if you can close the the hood with the rpm intake will have good quench for ping free pump gas operation. Nope, I wish we were. The only NHRA races that I know of in the state are at Brainerd International Receway and a strip at Grove Creek . |
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361 build questions
