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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
   
Location: bishop, ca | John, I'll PM you my cam's specs, which Chris can compare to what he intends to do to yours; it provides good low-middle
response, which is where you want your cam to come alive.
The dissie can be bench tested/adjusted away from your car, and it should be 'done' before the engine is fully ready for
installation in the car.
Does your vacuum advance have a 'removable' (adjustable) flat lock-nut on its 'nose'?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | d500neil - 2013-07-14 7:06 PM
John, I'll PM you my cam's specs, which Chris can compare to what he intends to do to yours; it provides good low-middle
response, which is where you want your cam to come alive.
The dissie can be bench tested/adjusted away from your car, and it should be 'done' before the engine is fully ready for
installation in the car.
Does your vacuum advance have a 'removable' (adjustable) flat lock-nut on its 'nose ?
neil
yep.... dist 4003A does have the flat nut on nose . spring behind it .
I probally could work this distrib over now while I'm waiting for the hemi do be finished .. but won't run it during breaking in the cam period. don't need any issues then..
I could change the heavey spring to a light one in the dist for now.
what should I do for the vac adv can .. ? heavy /light spring ?----- more washers or less ?
or pipe tube sleeve over the linkage arm like that article said to do ?
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Expert
Posts: 3035
Location: N.W. Fla. | You do know a modern 318-340 LA points or electronic dizzy is a bolt in on the 241? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I'd have to know the built in mechanical advance and the vacuum advance on those engines' dissies before I'd ever consider
installing one of them, even though they might 'drop in'.
Also, they would need to have a dual points breaker plate to accommodate a Pertronix E.I. system.
John, what your dissie doc does with the vacuum advance depends upon what he does to the cam-curve, in getting
it to around 28 degrees (he does that by cutting and/or welding the cam's slot so that his Sun Analyzer testing machine
records the proper M.A., so that, when the V.A. is adjusted by him, he records about 40-42 degrees to total advance.
With the 40-42 degrees thus obtained, AND with the two light weight springs now installed, you can dial-in 6-8 degrees
of engine Initial Advance, to realize 48-ish (safely under 50) degrees of Total Advance.
Along with the Pertronix system (since your dissie is a dualie-points, already), you'll have a killer distributor which will take
full advantage of your hot-rodded engine.
Edited by d500neil 2013-07-15 2:34 AM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | Mopar1 - 2013-07-14 10:41 PM
You do know a modern 318-340 LA points or electronic dizzy is a bolt in on the 241?
mopar1
yes ... that is what I have read before here . it will drop in .
but........... I have 6 volt system and don't plan on a upgrade to 12volt.
or............ will it work with 6 volt?
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-15 10:17 AM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | d500neil - 2013-07-15 1:33 AM
I'd have to know the built in mechanical advance and the vacuum advance on those engines' dissies before I'd ever consider
installing one of them, even though they might 'drop in'.
Also, they would need to have a dual points breaker plate to accommodate a Pertronix E.I. system.
John, what your dissie doc does with the vacuum advance depends upon what he does to the cam-curve, in getting
it to around 28 degrees (he does that by cutting and/or welding the cam's slot so that his Sun Analyzer testing machine
records the proper M.A., so that, when the V.A. is adjusted by him, he records about 40-42 degrees to total advance.
With the 40-42 degrees thus obtained, AND with the two light weight springs now installed, you can dial-in 6-8 degrees
of engine Initial Advance, to realize 48-ish (safely under 50) degrees of Total Advance.
Along with the Pertronix system (since your dissie is a dualie-points, already), you'll have a killer distributor which will take
full advantage of your hot-rodded engine.
neil
why can't I set my old oem dist up like a newer style late 60-70's small block dist with around 19* initial and 32* total all in by 2500 rpm.. that is how I set quite a few mopar dists up already in some of my previous hotrods before and they would scream ! of course they have more lift and duration than a 241 hemi ..
my latest upgrade was in my 65 dart/charger 273 4 speed. 17* inital and 32* total . loves it.
is it because these hemis don't need all that timing ?
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-15 10:34 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3402
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | 32 total is in the ball park for a hemi, wedge engines usually want about 36 total. I have raced both of these engines and the modern 426 ran the best at about 32-33, the 426 Max Wedge about 36-38. all in both at 3k. For a street engine all in at 2500 may be too quick unless you have a fairly agressive cam that tends to bleed off the effective compression or cylinder pressure, if it is a high compression engine say 10 or above using pump gas, 2500 could be on the edge, of course every engine is slightly different., My race engines were a blue printed 12.5. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Our Hemi/Poly engines will absolutely detonate with Initial advance above say 12 degrees.
Detonation can/will occur if the I.A. is too high (say above 12) and/or if the total M.A. is above
36 degrees.
Due to the poor built-in mechanical advance on the 57 318 Poly Fury, Hot Rod got 12 degrees of I.A. dialed
in, for drag racing purposes....( but they were running mega-Premium gas in it, too)....to get the total
mechanical advance to 31 degrees---meaning that its dissie had a lousy 19 degrees of built-in
mechanical advancement in it!!
Our Hemi/Poly engines can accept up to about 36 degrees of I.A + M.A. but, at or above that rate you will be running at least
91 octane gas, to avoid detonation (from the piston being too-far down in the cylinder when the spark goes off, so that you get
a secondary ignition of unburned gas when the piston rises to the top of the cylinder).
I'm at 4K' elevation, so my Hemi can tolerate Regular gas with no (detonation) problems, with my 6 I.A. + 27 M.A. (as
bench-tested by the dissie doc; it was supposed to have 28 degrees of M.A in it)= 33 degrees total mechanical advancement.
We want to use as low of octane gas as possible, as there are more hydrocarbons (what actually gets burned, in gasoline)
per volume in Regular grade than exist in the higher octane blends (with anti-knock, etc-etc additives).
The two light weight springs will allow our dissies to achieve full advance at lower RPM, like Shep says, at about 2500
RPM, instead of at the sometimes virtually-unobtainable rate of 4800 RPM, with the heavier spring installed.
Here's what H.R has to say, in their omnibus 57 Plymouth evaluation issue (5/57):
Edited by d500neil 2013-07-16 5:00 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | Thanks guys !
say......... just got another 241 hemi crank wih standard mesurements . machine shop did a quick inspection with out cleaning it yet ... says it mics out good , no apparent cracks or anything welded up. only issue was where the rear rope seal , seals to crank .. few rust pits there . have to see how it cleans up first .. but all in all , Good crank |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | As long as 'we' are discussing the ramifications of detonation (pinging), there are two more causes for pinging to occur.
As mentioned elsewhere, you can also get detonation when the Total Advance exceeds about 50 degrees.
T.A. is the (cruising speed) accumulation of (the engine's) Initial Advance setting, plus the dissie's built-in Mechanical
Advance, plus the Vacuum Advance's additional (steady-state cruising) contributed advancement.
At WOT, the V.A. is inoperable, so only the I.A + M.A. applies, so their total should be less than about 36 degrees.
So, ideally, at high speed cruise-mode, we would want 6-9 degrees of I.A + 24-28 degrees of M.A. + 12-16 degrees of V.A. =
46-49 degrees of T.A. (with a 4-bbl carb system; 2-bbl's are less efficient than the 4's, so they can live
with higher timing advances).
The 4th possibility for detonation to occur is when the engine coolant contains a too-high water content.
Your water temperature gauge can be misleading to you, because water is a relatively poor transfer agent of heat, and
is repelled (bubbles off) by a hot surface, like the surface of the combustion chamber in a cylinder head.
The water temperature reading can be fine, while the engine is imitating Chernobyl.
As water gets hotter, it can absorb less heat (and it can boil-off), which creates a compounded metal super-heating.
The increased temperature and pressure inside the cylinder can ignite the unburned gasses in the cylinder, as the piston
rises up after the power stroke/spark occurs.
Fortunately, glycol type anti-freeze is an excellent transfer agent and it causes the water-mix to adhere to a hot engine
surface, to allow for efficient heat release from it.
Edited by d500neil 2013-07-16 4:57 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | This is how I curved a bunch of mopar sb dizzies .
works great !
To limit the total advance you need to shorten the travel of the slots on
the T bar. Remember distributor advance is x2 to the total. So if I am
setting my initial at 18 and I want 34 total that leaves me 8 degrees
advance in the distributor, 8x2=16 +18=34.
You will need to weld or solder the outside of the slots to shorten the
travel to limit your total. The numbers I have are close and should get you
within 2-4 degrees. I have found I am about 2 degrees off but it might
vary from distributor to distributor. Use the numbers below for reference.
dist. degrees / slot size
6.............. .340
7............... .355
8............... .375
9............... .390
10.............. .405
11.5 ........... .420
12.............. .435
13.............. .445
14.............. .460
15.............. .475
16.............. .490
17.............. .505
18.............. .520
This photo shows the shortened slots.
Make sure all the sharp edges are removed and the slots are clean to the
weight pins can move freely in the slots.
The tricky part for the curve is getting the springs to come in when you
want. If you are happy with your current curve, put it all back together
and away you go. If you want a performance curve to bring in your total
around 2200-2500 rpm you will have to play with springs to get that set
right. Many have had luck with just removing the heavy spring. For me
that just brought my total in by 1500 rpm which is too low. I have two
of the lighter stock springs in and will fire that up tomorrow and let you
know how that works.
Attached Images
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-16 11:54 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | this is how I will curve the 4003A dist in my hemi.
12* dist degrees which is a .435 slot opening ,
x 2 is 24* ma + 8 IA = 32* total plus VA ( dont know what I will do with that yet. and the light spring..
should work great ! just a ball park figure .
what do you think ?? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | You got it!
You want your total advance to be somewhat below 50 degrees.
At 32 degrees, you can dial-in 16 degrees to the Vacuum Advance (if it is adjustable...like yours is---has that flat nut guy on
its nose)....to get 48 total degrees, and with two light weight springs, you'll get to the 48 degrees at around 2500 rpm.
A Vacuum advance with a "8" stamped onto its lever arm will provide the 16 degrees that you need.
V.A.'s stamped with a "7" or an "8" are NOT really easy to find, on the 'web'.
The '8' I.A. will help your car to accelerate-away from a stop a tad better than would a '6', so the '8' I.A. will be really nice
for your 241.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | As you note, there are relatively many different "light-weight" dissie springs, out in the world, and the two (your dissie's existing light-weight one, and some other dissie's donor-spring)....which are best, for your hot-rodded dissie's overall performance, is a question that is open for a Sun Analyzer evaluation.
It is definitely possible to have two too-light-weight springs installed, or two springs which are, still, too-stiff-for-optimum distributor performance.
Edited by d500neil 2013-07-17 5:22 PM
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Expert
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | You can also use a set back timing lite and tach to set it up on the engine. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | thanks for the info guys !
sure do appreciated it.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | update on the new crank for the 241 hemi..
machine shop magnafluxed it today and it is GOOD To GO.
NO Cracks !
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | got a question for you guys
I'm having my 241 hemi stock cam reground .. chris neilson wants to bump it up on size larger to these specs approx. >> dur 246-256 and lift 330..
will this effect my gas miliage? >>> will it be better or worse?
compression will still be around 7:1 and a bore of .040 from .030 ........... after the rebuild .
This 241 hemi got 24 mpg in the" mobil gas run " back in 1954 .. that is incredible !
I don't want to hamper that .
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-18 1:39 PM
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Expert
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Is the 246-256 at .050 lift, if so that is way too much duration for normal usage. Any time to increase duration especially with a low compression engine you will lose low and mid range performance unless you have increased the gear ratio ( numerically). Either way all else being equal the mileage would suffer. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | shep
I would assume chris neilson cams means 246-256 advertised duration .
here is some cam spec info I found >>>>> I thought I remember him saying that the 241 hemi has aprox 330 lift .. these specs below show more lift .
I've been messing with these old Desoto hemis for over 40 years now and have had several stock cams reground for performance. I just got a new roller From Don Johanson. Does anyone out there know the specs on stock early hemi cams? I'd like to know what the duration of these old cams are. Is there any way to estimate duration if you know the lift? I have the specs on the Dodge, Chrysler, and Desoto cams as far as lift goes and here they are;
Dodge Intake Exhaust
53 241 .360" .364"
54 241 .365" .365"
55 270 .360" .360"
56 315 .360" .360"
56-D500 .400" .409"
57 325 .389" .389"
57-D500 .388" .388"
57-D5001 354 .444" .435"
Desoto
53 276 .361" .361"
54 276 .361" .361"
55 291 .360" .360"
56 330 .381" .357"
56 Adventurer .431" .413"
57 341 .389" .389"
57 Adventurer .430" .413"
Chrysler
53 331 .378" .361"
54 331 .378" .361"
55 331 .381" .357"
55 300 331 .444" .435"
56 354 .381" .357"
57 300 354 .444" .435"
58 392 .389" .389"
58 300 392 .435" .442"
58 300 Injected 392 .445" .445"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-18 3:42 PM
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Expert
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Location: N.W. Fla. | dodge59 - 2013-07-18 2:31 PM
shep
I would assume chris neilson cams means 246-256 advertised duration .
here is some cam spec info I found >>>>> I thought I remember him saying that the 241 hemi has aprox 330 lift .. these specs below show more lift .
I've been messing with these old Desoto hemis for over 40 years now and have had several stock cams reground for performance. I just got a new roller From Don Johanson. Does anyone out there know the specs on stock early hemi cams? I'd like to know what the duration of these old cams are. Is there any way to estimate duration if you know the lift? I have the specs on the Dodge, Chrysler, and Desoto cams as far as lift goes and here they are;
Dodge Intake Exhaust
53 241 .360" .364"
54 241 .365" .365"
55 270 .360" .360"
56 315 .360" .360"
56-D500 .400" .409"
57 325 .389" .389"
57-D500 .388" .388"
57-D5001 354 .444" .435"
Desoto
53 276 .361" .361"
54 276 .361" .361"
55 291 .360" .360"
56 330 .381" .357"
56 Adventurer .431" .413"
57 341 .389" .389"
57 Adventurer .430" .413"
Chrysler
53 331 .378" .361"
54 331 .378" .361"
55 331 .381" .357"
55 300 331 .444" .435"
56 354 .381" .357"
57 300 354 .444" .435"
58 392 .389" .389"
58 300 392 .435" .442"
58 300 Injected 392 .445" .445"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. From the refs I use, all the 53-5 Dodges used the same cam. Allthe DeSotos 52-55 ex Adv used the same cam. And all of the 51-55 used the same cam ex for the 300. Talking car hemis. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | I went to look at my stock /original 4003A dist for my 241 hemi and it has a stamped # 11.5 vacumn advance arm in it. is there any way I can modfy mine with a lighter spring,thicker spring or more or less washers .. I need a # 8 arm for my application. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | OK ... update
I opened up the 4003a dissie and here is what I found .
t-slot measurement of .415 ,two stock springs (appear to be really light ) and a stamped 11.5 VA arm .. suppose to be all stock oem dissie 241 hemi .
why would one spring be painted red? primary spring ? both look the same and feel the same for tension.
.415 slot equals approx. 11* x2 = 22* built into the ma. not much ma !
I'll see what my other parts disssies have , maybe I'll find a # 12 or 13 t-bar slot .
my goal here is
12x4=24 ma + 8 IA 32 total w/o va
OR
13x2=26 ma + 8 IA 34 total w/o va
probally use the 12x2 slot for 24 ma then I can bump the ia up to 10* if needed.
here a cuple pics of the Iaz 4003A dissie insides
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-20 4:46 PM
 (inside 4003a dissie springs 40%.JPG)
 (4003a dissie t- slot.JPG)
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inside 4003a dissie springs 40%.JPG (205KB - 143 downloads)
4003a dissie t- slot.JPG (98KB - 142 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | found a coupe more t-bars .. modified one for measurements .435 slot 12*
question on the springs .. appears my oem spring look weak .. is that what they are suppose to look like or should it have had springs somewhat like this one that came out of a newer 440 mopar with a cast iron dissie? see pic .
should mine of had a spring that has a loop in it .. what was that for again ? what did that do to the timing ? ... I forget.
thanks guys !
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-20 4:39 PM
 (modified t slot .435.JPG)
 (440 dizzie 40% springs.JPG)
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modified t slot .435.JPG (118KB - 142 downloads)
440 dizzie 40% springs.JPG (144KB - 145 downloads)
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Expert
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Location: Arizona | To me that one spring looks weak. Years ago I had my 69 400 Pontiac distributor redone by a speed shop. It was ok when I got it back but then it seemed like more and more I could not get good enough gas to keep it happy. I was dumping in octane booster and looking for the absolute highest octane premium fuel I could find. Thing still pinged like crazy with some knocking. Took the distributor apart and discovered that the springs were all stretched to hell and the wights were just sloppy loose as a result. So I cliped the end off the springs, bend the end loop down to make a new end anchor and put it back n place. Car ran better then it had in many years. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | found this article about the loop adv spring .
The springs adjust the advance rate. Where the distributor is bolted down determines the initial advance, the amount of travel in the mechanical advance determines the total advance, and the springs determine what RPM total advanced is reached. Lighter springs allow the mechanical advance to move more easily so you will reach total advance at a lower RPM. Stiffer spring will delay the total advance. Most distributors use two springs, a small one and big one. The big one will usually have a bit of lash so the small one does all the work at low speeds. This allows the advance to come up quickly off idle. Once the lash on the big spring is used up the weights will be trying to pull both springs so the advance rate will slow down. The chart below shows a typical stock advance "curve". It is the dual springs that give it the curve. If there were only one spring the chart would just be a straight line.
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-21 12:09 PM
 (440 dizzie 40% springs.JPG)
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440 dizzie 40% springs.JPG (144KB - 124 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | ok back to my 241 hemi dist ........
Sooooooo ... there are no heavy adv springs in my dist both advance springs are appear identicle in ( coils size, diameter and tension) .. except for one being red . so I should just replace one of them with a lighter spring then? that would give me a quicker advance.
Thanks !
 (inside 4003a dissie springs 40%.JPG)
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inside 4003a dissie springs 40%.JPG (205KB - 155 downloads)
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Expert
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Location: Arizona | The red spring looks like it has smaller coils to me. Is there some reason you think the springs are wrong? Until you run it and see what the advance curve is you are just proposing changing things for no apparent reason. Or did I miss something earlier in this thread? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | If you refer to my first post (so long ago), you'll see that your dissie is to have 24 degrees of built-in Mechanical
Advancement, and that it is supposed to have 14 degrees (stamped with a "7'" on its lever-arm) of Vacuum advance.
You may also recall that my car's 1955 Windsor V/8 dissie (the beloved IAZ 4001E) was officially to have 28 degrees of
built-in M.A. in it, but that the Dissie Doc recorded an actual 27 degrees in it.
You need to get your V.A. to whatever total advancement would not exceed 50 degrees (unless you like listening to
your engine playing The Anvil Chorus).
And, that 'red' spring is light weight; you need another one of them to make your dissie fast-reacting to increased engine RPM.
Edited by d500neil 2013-07-21 10:39 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | neil
from what I have found and posted in ealier posts is that my 241 hemi oem 4003a dizzie does not have 24* ma . it miced out to be .415 and that is approx 22* ma . has two identicle adv springs, not a light and heavy spring and the va arm is #11.5 .
The adv weight springs are identicle the pic is just deseiving ......... with same number of coils , thickness,diameter .. and length etc.
I have reason to believe that the dizzie was not altered in any way..
I got the correct amount of ma in the t-bar now 24*. now just wondering if it needs one lighter spring still since these oem ones are light weight already ..
then trying to find a #8 va arm .. or maybe alter the oem 11.5 one that is in there now.
that is going to hard to find that #8 va arm
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-21 11:59 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | jimntempe - 2013-07-21 9:12 PM
The red spring looks like it has smaller coils to me. Is there some reason you think the springs are wrong? Until you run it and see what the advance curve is you are just proposing changing things for no apparent reason. Or did I miss something earlier in this thread?
jimntempe
just recurving the dizzie for better overall performance.
this dizzy only had 22* ma built in it . just needs a better set up all around . |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The heavy-er of the two springs slows down the dissie's rate of advance.
The A.M.A. specs call for 4 degrees of I.A. (not very good for low speed performance) + 24 M.A. = 28 degrees
of total Mechanical Advance (not great, either), so, with 23 V.A. (11.5x2) added to the sum, you'd get Total Advancement
of 51 degrees, but, that heavy spring might restrict/retard the arrival of those 51 degrees until maybe 4,800 RPM.
Installing 2 light-weight springs will speed up the advance rate, so you'd get those 51 degrees at maybe 2,800 RPM,
and you'd be stuck with those 4-degrees of I.A., and you'd probably have to use Premium gas to avoid pinging
at high speed cruise mode.
Installing (or, dialing-in) a lower V.A. of 14-16 will allow you to up the I.A. to 8-9 ish + 24 M.A. + 14/16 = 46/49
and with you possibly being able to run Regular of Mid Grade gas.
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | neil
anyway to modify my va ? by slipping that tube over the va arm to restrict it? mine has 11.5 stamped on it .
pic is the inside ma springs ... going to replace one with a lighter one.
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-23 12:05 AM
 (inside 4003a dissie springs 40%.JPG)
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inside 4003a dissie springs 40%.JPG (205KB - 138 downloads)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I got no specific info on adjusting a V.A., other than the general 'word' that the flat-nut on the nose allows the advance
to be changed.
A dissie doc would be able to record the actual degrees of change, on his Sun Analyzer (I believe).
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | d500neil - 2013-07-23 2:14 AM
I got no specific info on adjusting a V.A., other than the general 'word' that the flat-nut on the nose allows the advance
to be changed.
A dissie doc would be able to record the actual degrees of change, on his Sun Analyzer (I believe).
your correct neil
behind that flat nut is a springs a nd washer to adjust the amount desire I believe.. someone would have to varify that . but I know you can curve that va .
on a previous post neil on the 241 hemi build they had metioned to install a pipe tubing over the va linkage arm to limit or block out the travel..
here is a pic of my va stamped 11.5 on the arm and the red arrow showing where I think they would have plced the tubing over the linkage arm.
 (my va can arm 40% w arrow.JPG)
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my va can arm 40% w arrow.JPG (131KB - 143 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | more info specs from Bubba's hotrod shop...Greatly appreciated info ..
here it is >
The numbers inside the unit " Z26R" show that the distributor has 26 degrees of advance and is a right hand unit.
A good clean and lube will more than likely restore the factory curve as needed, these get gummed up and restrict the advance action.
The springs are adjustable by bending the mounting tabs and very seldom require replacement. The spring tension changes the advance rate to a working curve of progressive advance..
To limit the vac advance just slip a piece of winshield wiper rubber hose inside the spring inside the diaphrahm.
These cast iron units are some of the best distributors ever made and work very well with a little care.......
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888-809-3835 TOLL FREE s on my dist curving
That stamped plate says what the slots size is , but mine were far from that .. they measured not even 22* @ .415
according to what the Z26R stamped shows that is 26 dist degrees . mine is less that 22*. wonder what happened there. who knows what mopar did back in the day. maybe someone intalled the wrong t-bar on assembly day.
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-24 11:37 AM
 (inside 4003a dissie springs 40%.JPG)
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inside 4003a dissie springs 40%.JPG (205KB - 136 downloads)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The number/thickness of the washers is how the V.A.'s advancement is adjusted.....IIRC.
Someone with an Analyzer would be needed to dial in the advancement, I think.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | distributor curve update ...........
worked on my hemi distributor today and finished the curve in it..
t-bar slots have 24* MA.... two light ma springs ,..... 8* IA and 16* VA . = > 48*
may need smoe minor adjustments after the engine is running.
this dist curve should really wake this hemi up !
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-25 7:12 PM
 (my hemi dist curved 40%.JPG)
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my hemi dist curved 40%.JPG (144KB - 142 downloads)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | My hero.
"Get 'em up, Scout! That right Kemo Sabe!"
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | Thanks Neil
here is pic of my 241 hemi distributor 4003A , finished with the curve .
Update on hemi
all machine work on Block is done .
still waiting for chris neilson cams to regrind the cam , should be this week , ( he has had it now for 3 weeks ) .
heads are almost done too > new valves ,guides , intake seals and a port cleaned up and polish .
still have to regrind the crank .
won't be long now!
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-26 11:56 AM
 (my recured dist finish 40%.JPG)
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my recured dist finish 40%.JPG (164KB - 136 downloads)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | All you need NOW is the Pertronix Ignitor 1383 electronic ignition system
(But you'd still have to be careful around Kryptonite).
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | d500neil - 2013-07-26 11:13 AM
All you need NOW is the Pertronix Ignitor 1383 electronic ignition system
(But you'd still have to be careful around Kryptonite).
Neil
will that pertronix work with a 6 volt system? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I think that it will; call them and confirm, and let us know what they have to say.
How did you dial in (and record) the V.A. unit to provide its 16 degrees?
You say, above, that your "26" cam&plate didn't even produce 22 degrees; as I mentioned, my "28" C&P only produced 27 degrees
of advance.
"Your results may vary"....
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | d500neil - 2013-07-26 3:51 PM
I think that it will; call them and confirm, and let us know what they have to say.
How did you dial in (and record) the V.A. unit to provide its 16 degrees?
You say, above, that your "26" cam&plate didn't even produce 22 degrees; as I mentioned, my "28" C&P only produced 27 degrees
of advance.
"Your results may vary"....
neil
I'm going to try the old trick of inserting that rubber hose insde the VA coil spring to limit travel and it does work... they used this trick back in 1954 as the above article states. I'll give it a whirl and I may have to tweak that accordingly.
I will call pertronix about the kit for a 6 volt system monday.
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-26 6:13 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | update on the regrind of my hemi cam.
Here are the stock specs on a 241 hemi cam :
dur ...... .172 @ .050
lift......... 360
My new specs will be :
Dur ... .192@ .050
lift........ .392-.395.
"Chris Neilson cams " knows is stuff.
no other valve train alterations are needd with this new cam .
I should have the new reground cam next week .
Edited by dodge59 2013-07-26 6:15 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3035
Location: N.W. Fla. | what springs did they recommend? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | There are quite a few different 'light-weight' and 'heavy' springs that could be installed in a dissie.
You could end up with one/two too-light/weak 'light' spring(s) or one/two too-heavy 'light' springs.
The Sun Analyzer would evaluate the rate of advancement provided by the two springs, so that the full advancement
would not occur until the 2800+ RPM sweet-spot is reached.
OOPS...if you mean valve-springs, they'd better have recommended the stock ratings, to preserve
the cam lobes.
Edited by d500neil 2013-07-26 8:49 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | Mopar1 - 2013-07-26 6:20 PM
what springs did they recommend?
chris neilson cams said that I would not have had to change the valve springs , That's ok with me, but my machine shop doing the hemi said the oem springs are so weak , that he would like to see a little stiffer spring also the valve seals would fit better and no rub on the inner spring..
all looks good ! |
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Expert
Posts: 3035
Location: N.W. Fla. | dodge59 - 2013-07-26 8:04 PM
Mopar1 - 2013-07-26 6:20 PM
what springs did they recommend?
chris neilson cams said that I would not have had to change the valve springs , That's ok with me, but my machine shop doing the hemi said the oem springs are so weak , that he would like to see a little stiffer spring also the valve seals would fit better and no rub on the inner spring..
all looks good ! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1018
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin | Mopar1 - 2013-07-26 9:50 PM
dodge59 - 2013-07-26 8:04 PM
Mopar1 - 2013-07-26 6:20 PM
what springs did they recommend?
chris neilson cams said that I would not have had to change the valve springs , That's ok with me, but my machine shop doing the hemi said the oem springs are so weak , that he would like to see a little stiffer spring also the valve seals would fit better and no rub on the inner spring..
all looks good ! Probably didn't mean keeping 60 yr old springs, I'd hope.
Right........ mopar 1 |
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rod knock in my 241 hemi
