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My first real Barn find!
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Beltran
Posted 2013-08-24 11:05 AM (#393164)
Subject: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Michigan		Well today I went to go see the Windsor I heard about through a friend of a relative of a ... well you get the idea.

Unfortunately it wasn't in the barn anymore. The barn actually fell on it decades ago and is now completely gone except for the foundation. Here are some pics. Apologize for the blurriness of some of the pics. It was difficult with all the vegetation and sunlight to get the camera phone to take a good picture. Oh and it has 67k or 167k miles on it... I think it was the later as it has been there for over 4 decades. I could identify power windows as the only option on this convertible. I think that odd switch is the Top control.

Edited by Beltran 2013-08-24 11:15 AM




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big m
Posted 2013-08-24 11:21 AM (#393167 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Williams California		Cool find!!

Although dilapidated, there are some very valuable convertible specific parts still on the car. Wonder how long it's been exposed to the elements?

---John
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fenix
Posted 2013-08-24 11:22 AM (#393168 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: atlanta		What a shame, why do people do that?
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catman
Posted 2013-08-24 11:53 AM (#393173 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: RE: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Montreal, Canada		Easy restoration !!!!!!!



A good wash can do wonder.

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oldwood
Posted 2013-08-24 12:11 PM (#393175 - in reply to #393173)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!


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Location: little rock, AR		I know a blind man looking for a project car.
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garrettwilson30
Posted 2013-08-24 4:22 PM (#393189 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!


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Location: bossier city, louisiana		LOL! At oldwood
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ronbo97
Posted 2013-08-24 4:33 PM (#393191 - in reply to #393189)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!


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Location: Connecticut

Did you buy it ? Lots of good parts to resell. Can you get it at a reasonable price ?

Ron

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Windsor59
Posted 2013-08-24 5:43 PM (#393198 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Posts: 2596
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden		What images almost as one would was in place
Hoping for more pictures when Chrysler is taken out, cool
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Beltran
Posted 2013-08-24 6:24 PM (#393206 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Michigan		We have worked out a deal. I am going to get parts off the car and try and sell them. We will split the profits. The tail lights are mine. Can't believe they are not cracked. He has no interest in the car and is willing to work with me on getting some good out of whatever can be salvaged.
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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-24 6:27 PM (#393207 - in reply to #393198)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		This 1955 Windsor vert resembles that certain French 57 Fury, with the 150KPH speedo, from a few years ago.

you've got the VIN, so "restoring (re-creating)" this car is very possible.

The P/T plate may be relatively hidden, installed way-down-low on the valance/filler panel, on the passenger's side, in front
of the radiator.



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christine-lover
Posted 2013-08-24 6:32 PM (#393209 - in reply to #393207)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Sept. 1958
d500neil - 2013-08-24 6:27 PM

This 1955 Windsor vert resembles that certain French 57 Fury, with the 150KPH speedo, from a few years ago.

you've got the VIN, so "restoring (re-creating)" this car is very possible.

The P/T plate may be relatively hidden, installed way-down-low on the valance/filler panel, on the passenger's side, in front
of the radiator.





240 kph
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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-24 6:32 PM (#393210 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		Mark, what you should do is get a "Bill of Sale" on this car, referencing its VIN, and then buy a copy of its Build Card,
because the CHS will require Proof of Purchase/ownership of it....so that it might be able to be re-created in the future.

You can tell the CHS that you intend to restore your "car", but that you need its IBM card to confirm 'how' it should be
correctly restored.

I would also suggest that you photograph it with as much of the 'camouflage' removed from around
it, so that the CHS can see that you've got a 'complete' restoration project, there, and not just a
random VIN plate.


(150KPH---90 MPH; the top speed of a Fury, right?)







Edited by d500neil 2013-08-24 6:37 PM
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Beltran
Posted 2013-08-24 6:47 PM (#393215 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Michigan		This car is so rotted I don't think it's restorable. Sure you could get all the special trim pieces but you would need a complete body from another vehicle. I am not sure I could pull it out of the mud. I could see the frame as there was no floor. It was fully buried and rusting through in many places. I will try and salvage all the plates. The firewall is there and of course the vin tag.

Is the P/T plate what they put on it to identify all the options? I think that is on the firewall next to the master cylinder, at least it is on my 55 Windsor.
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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-24 6:51 PM (#393216 - in reply to #393215)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Location: bishop, ca		The CHS doesn't need to know that.

On a friend's 56 NY'er, the P/T plate is where I describe it; very-difficult to see/find, in that remote location.

I would definitely try to get its IBM card, as its information might well influence the desirability of anyone's restoring it.

Just be sure to say the right words to the CHS about your needing that info in order to restore it, properly.


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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-24 11:13 PM (#393239 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Location: bishop, ca		This is heresy, but this car could provide 80% of the necessary parts to restore this convertible, for
only $9,800.00.

Heresy, but availability.


http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/chrysler/windsor/15...


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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-25 7:28 PM (#393339 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: RE: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca
Just to preserve this car's appearance...



(Heresy.jpg)



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ttotired
Posted 2013-08-25 7:49 PM (#393345 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Perth Australia		It would be a fun (but hard) w/e cutting that out of all that brush to see if there was any hope left for it

That car Neil has put up is nice and it would be a shame to kill it, but then, this is what happens

The frame on the "doner" car would be different (yes?) and would need that X piece (or another X piece made)

Just looking at the pics above, it really looks like its one of those cowl and behind the seat cars that would need everything else replaced

lots of work, but not impossible

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Powerflite
Posted 2013-08-26 3:24 PM (#393484 - in reply to #393345)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: So. Cal		I think it would be a mistake to separate the convertible parts from the VIN & other numbers. You just need a 2dr '55 Windsor to donate all the other parts for it. But yeah, it isn't a project for the timid. Nevertheless, convertibles are hard to get so I would bet that there would be interest somewhere to get the job done.
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Beltran
Posted 2013-08-26 9:26 PM (#393540 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Michigan		You need a 2 door Neil. Not a 4dr sedan. Even more heresy by some peoples standards...

Sadly it is just a shell left. I bet you could lift the body off in pieces with a couple of guys helping as I doubt it is attached to anything on the frame.

Edited by Beltran 2013-08-26 9:29 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-08-27 12:48 AM (#393575 - in reply to #393540)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Parts Unknown		Far worse condition cars have been rebuilt from piles of parts like this. I doubt mine required
any less work to build it back, and my old Adventurer was delivered to me on pallets ! ... all I
got was the cowl, tub section, and center of the frame ! I had to rebuild it ALL from scratch !

Don't underestimate the "value" (not talking DOLLAR value here) of those convertible-specific
parts and those body tags. Without either, it is a major PITA to rebuild the car. With both, at
least the poor guy doing it has a fighting chance !


Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2013-08-27 12:50 AM
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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-27 2:16 AM (#393593 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		Mark; yes-and-no....this particular "parts car"....could furnish a running engine/driveline and all the critical electrical parts/
pieces, gauges, floor pans, plus yadayadayada....except for some very particular body panels, that any nasty wrecking yard
car could provide.

In regards to a convertible's re-creation, a decent/good condition drivable parts car, for a reasonable price, is being
thousands of dollars 'ahead' in the process.



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kmccabe56
Posted 2013-08-27 7:53 AM (#393604 - in reply to #393540)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!


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I've done what I think is fairly thorough research on converting a 2dr hdtp into a convertible. What's required most is the top 2/3 of the cowl & windshield frame, the top frame and cylinders (obviously) as well as the convertible specific parts from around the rear deck opening. Chrysler was an absolute expert at mixing and matching parts and pieces to come up with a specific body style. Much of the lower 1/3 of the cowl is common to every body style, but differs above that point along with the windshield frame itself.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-08-27 2:18 PM (#393671 - in reply to #393604)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Parts Unknown		As someone who HAS done it (and carefully researched both closed and open cars to see
how the factory did it), ... and understand it *could* be a little different on a 55 vs. a 57-8,
... you will need a proper frame to start with ... for 58, it is a 58 126 WB coupe frame ONLY.
both 57 and 59 have differences and non-coupe frames are also different. I do not know the
specifics for a 55. That would have to be researched.

Next, you need the convertible X-member and properly locate this to properly support the
transmission and other details.

The rest of the chassis is common to all of the same model.

The body is where it gets complicated. The windshield frame and trim is, of course, convertible-
specific, as well as the heavier and reinforced rockers. The entire rear wheel tub and top well
section of the body is convertible-specific, so one basically needs the body from the back edge
of the door openings to the front edge of the decklid. Some cars also have a convertible-unique
rear deck, however I do not know if the 55 Chrysler did. The 57 and later Mopar ragtops shared
a common rear deck. Some cars have added frame stanchions and corresponding body mounts.
This would also have to be researched.

Mechanical and trim parts follow suit based on the above.

Other than that, .... piece of cake !

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Beltran
Posted 2013-08-27 8:46 PM (#393807 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Michigan		You guys are gifted with this ability to fab metal back into the art it was originally. I agree I could attempt this but I will have to do some real convincing of the wife. Then of course, if I have to put 25k plus into it, will I ever see it worth that if I sold it? Not like its a really sought after convertible. It's a low line Windsor Deluxe. With Power windows, power steering and a clock in the dash. Got a poly 301. It's white with a Turquoise interior... just like my current 55. What is it really worth? This is no D500....

Edited by Beltran 2013-08-27 8:49 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-27 8:56 PM (#393811 - in reply to #393807)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		If it is a convertible, it IS sought after.

This re-creation project is what our hobby is all about...not: making money by turning-cars that are bought for Speculation
purposes.

All of the vert-specific parts are still there (to varying extents).



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-08-27 10:23 PM (#393821 - in reply to #393811)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Parts Unknown		To put what Neil said in a more user-friendly format, this *should be* about doing it for
the love of the car / an appreciation for the history represented. When it becomes about
money, we have become just another douchebag.

That said, I think anyone is kidding themselves if they think they could resurrect this car
to a presentable state with a $25K budget. Just a single bumper rechromed is WAY over
$1K ... and that is if it is nice to begin with.

But if this was THE CAR for someone, it is very do-able with a lot of determination and
patience. There is a degree of "talent" that goes into doing cars and cars like this, but it
is not rocket science and I feel anyone can do it if they dial in a good mentor and just "give
it a whirl".

If you need convincing, go look at Raffaele's thread about the 57 Adventurer and think
about those LONG winters where a project like this would make those evenings and weekends
fun and the satisfaction of doing yourself would really make it all "worth it".

Is it "worth it" to YOU ? That is a question only each person can answer for themselves.
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dukjupiter
Posted 2013-08-27 10:49 PM (#393827 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!


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Location: lakeview, ny 14085		get that car out of the dingweeds in one piece, inventory it, don't remove a thing, take a thousand pics (they are worth one word or something like that) get the word out that its available and you will be surprised how many offers you will get on that car. don't start taking parts off it, you will be breaking $1000 pieces to sell $50 dollar parts. do not remove any parts till you have bonafide offers on stuff. you will be shocked what one of those cars will crap out, especially since al gore invented this old internet deal. ideally you sell it in one piece, but if not it will be worth your while parting. trust me, I've done it both ways. key is getting the word out. this is a wonderful site for info, aint nothing about these cars that somebody on here hasn't done or knows how to do, and they know what everything is worth. but this group doesn't like to buy that often. they always say they should of, or were too far, or if they didn't have, or had extra money, etc. so get your info here and get the word out, you'll have fun and make some hay.
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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2013-08-27 11:08 PM (#393830 - in reply to #393827)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: CA		It's a convertible WITH power options? It IS desirable then, have you ever taken a peek at the Scandinavian region and taken a look at the photos posted? That's all you see over there (nearly to be fair) HIGH option convertibles, 300 letter cars, all the top cars OR convertibles WITH power options. Have a look..
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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-27 11:56 PM (#393835 - in reply to #393830)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		The "$25,000.00" re-creation budget becomes VERY do-able, when about 80% (+/-) of the restoration parts are
available for less than $10K.

The Budget depends (as it always does) upon the amount (and quality) of the owner's Sweat Equity that he can invest into the project.




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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-08-28 1:46 PM (#393915 - in reply to #393835)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Parts Unknown		Let's just say the guy who will restore this car gets a decent coupe as a donor/parts car for a
typical price of around $4.5K.

Add in an engine kit and machining - $2K

Add in welding and paint supplies - $3K

Add in the considerable amount of chrome to be redone - $5K

Add in the considerable amount of stainless to be straightened and polished - $2K

My very basic Plaza interior will end up costing about $8K finished. A Chrysler will only be more.

Add in new wiring harness and related electrical - $1.5K

Recast steering wheel - $1K

New set of 5 tires - $1K

Incidentals - we all know how this adds up ! - $5K

================================================

Right there we have $33K ! So far I left off exhaust system, any sort of misc. parts that are unserviceable
in the mix, replacement glass, gas tank work, new top and installation, new top pump and rams, new rubber
throughout. Let's not kid ourselves. A typical restoration of a car like ours will run north of $40K if one starts
with a very nice car AND you can do a bunch of the work yourself. My numbers above purposely leave out
the entire body and chassis reconstruction as an "assumed" do-it-yourself premise. Oh yeah, forgot new front
end kit, spring replacement or rebuild ....
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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-28 3:26 PM (#393946 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		It's all hypothetical, but that's what a lot of our threads are about.

Taking that (or another...) $9,800.00 RUNNING high #3/low #2 condition "parts car" into consideration, a lot of Brent's costs
can/could be eliminated from the restoration equation.

The 'wild card' is the extent to which the owner could do some of the re-creation work on the car himself.




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Beltran
Posted 2013-08-28 9:21 PM (#394029 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Expert

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Location: Michigan		First of all, I never got into the hobby for the money. That should be obvious, I mean I am driving a 55 4dr Windsor that I have put 13k into at least. Oh and I modified it. So lot's of tabu's there and I enjoy my car and drive my car... Dangit.
However, there is the reality check one must do before taking on a project of this magnitude. I am one of those people that is not afraid to dig in and do something I have not done before. I read and learn and then do... then reread.. well you all know how it goes.
So this is a great opportunity to get new tools! I have always wanted a plasma cutter. :D.

But this is a project that is a whole different scale than my current Windsor. I don't have the storage or garage to own two cars with one being a work in progress... for 5-10 years. I could pull it out of there and then try and sell it as a package to someone who wants to restore this type of vehicle. Stay tuned...
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Fins/413
Posted 2013-08-29 6:01 AM (#394073 - in reply to #394029)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!


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Location: Wake Forest, NC		Beltran whatever you do with the car good luck. As an aside those vines look like poison ivy to me. I wasn't aware it grew that far north so it may be something else. If you are allergic be careful, it will eat you up.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-08-29 1:45 PM (#394174 - in reply to #394073)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Parts Unknown		Party Naked
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DIF-RNT
Posted 2013-08-29 1:50 PM (#394178 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: NE Ohio		That IS a project car
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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-29 4:16 PM (#394235 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		As mentioned elsewhere, to re-create this vert, all that is needed is: MONEY/location/time/interest/ability....that's not
asking too much?

Plan B would be selling its remains to someone who meets the above qualifications.




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Beltran
Posted 2013-08-29 6:42 PM (#394287 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Michigan		Hmm. thanks for the heads up Eric. My wife can pick it out right away but I don't know it that well. It does grow up here and is quite common. I was dressed for the occasion but did not have gloves. I will be more careful next trip.
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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-29 8:48 PM (#394307 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		No pain, no gain...yech; never had the 'Ivy, but a lot of people in the mid west, when I was growing up, there, got it.


http://www.home-remedies-for-you.com/remedy/Poison-Ivy.html
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carjock
Posted 2013-08-29 9:19 PM (#394315 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!


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Have I moved into some other sphere of reality? Is D500 Neil actually advocating the creation of a "phony" recreation of a car just because there is a build sheet, data plate, and a rusty hulk available? I seem to remember the very same "voice" condemning such practice on any such project presented on this forum, mostly worrying that some "unscrupulous" rebuilder would try to pass it off as an original. I am shocked that Neil (the purist's purist) would become an advocate of such treachery and "commoner" activity!!
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ttotired
Posted 2013-08-30 3:12 AM (#394355 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Perth Australia		I have to say that (and not just Neil here), what is the difference between what has been talked about here and the 60 plymouth vert that was recently for sale (from Merto if I remember correctly) that had been re created using a coup body?

A lot of people seemed to think the car was less of a car because of it?

I have seen threads on here about verts that were not much more than rusted out hulks that really only had a cowl and trunk (rear wheel inners) left and were pieced back together, using a doner coup and the parts specific to a vert to complete the project.

I dont see anything wrong with this, its just one car being sacrificed to complete another.

Not sure I could do this to a running complete car myself, but if its the type of car you want, then why not.

I was looking at that 4drht that some clown cut the roof off as a possible doner for my plymouth and I still think it would be a good idea, but not that financial at present to do it (my plymouth would end up with its body details as mine are missing).

I know I am talking like for like there, but not really that different if you put the vert specific parts on it, is it?

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carjock
Posted 2013-08-30 1:20 PM (#394408 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!


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I am all for "creating" a dream car out of a rust bucket if that's what turns you on! I have done it myself with no regrets. My point here is the hypocrisy being promoted by a member who used to condemn any such action. The point was that "if it isn't fully documented and original", it would be a crime to "recreate" it for any reason, including just because an individual liked the car! Anyone has the right to alter his position, but I am just very surprised by this particular reversal.
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big m
Posted 2013-08-30 1:59 PM (#394411 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Williams California		I still do not see what is wrong with taking the rusty remains of a car, and use another donor to recreate it, as you are not creating something that never existed before, as long as the work is performed properly.

It is somewhat laughable when the same naysayers take a totally rusted out hulk, and rebuild it with aftermarket patch panels and Chinese reproduction parts, that never came close to a Chrysler stamping plant, and consider their finished product 'Better' because of it.

---John
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-08-30 2:05 PM (#394412 - in reply to #394408)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Parts Unknown		I will let Neil speak for himself on an ethical "hinge point" in his thinking, IF one has
occurred.

I see it this way ... after years and years of fruitless search, THOUSANDS of dollars
spent on long distance phone calls, Old Car Traders, Hemmings, and cross-country road trips
as follow up, only to meet up with dead ends or Mopar Mel (another dead end), I came
to a point of thinking that if the factory built cars out of the same sheetmetal (just swapping
in key pieces) to create different body types, ... if I were to find those same key pieces
and proper body ID tags, what difference is rebuilding a rusted heap of scale back into a
car from rebuilding a nice, preserved driver IF it is done like the factory did it AND you
have all the proper parts to do it like the factory would have done it ?

If all those parts were on the racks, just waiting for that build sheet to come down the
line, and THIS build sheet said "convertible", Joe the line worker, simply grabbed those
pieces necessary to build a ragtop body, as opposed to any other type, and they got
welded together into THAT body type.

Today, that same parts rack is scattered over the earth like fallout, but it is the same
bunch of parts (if you can find them).

Like I said, I can't speak to Neil's position, but I am quite sure he and I are on the same
page when it comes to hack jobs and cars built with no real base in an original hulk - great
importance here: being passed off as real cars that were restored from genuine factory-built
cars.

There are 30 shades of grey in between, but a factory convertible (no matter the end condition)
being built back (using the bulk of a donor car) .... if done correctly to factory practice, is no
different than restoring a nice survivor in terms of ethics. It involves a boatload more work
and money, but some times these old POS's are simply unobtainium and no other options are
out there.

The recent discussion about Wayne's 59 Firesweep ragtop offers a few twists. Many have
suggested he restore the car as it was built or sell it to someone who will. But Wayne WANTS
a 57-58 big body DeSoto ragtop. So close, yet so far !

Now, he could restore it as a 59 Firesweep and have a car *kinda-like* what he wants, but it
is not THE car he wants. It does have a lot of the correct unobtainium correct factory parts he
could use to build a proper factory spec car (the one he wants), but he'd still need to find a donor
frame and body and a correct frame X-member (his is small body specific). And of course, there's
the issue of body tags.

But if Wayne said, ... "Look, I'll be dead before I ever find that car I really want", he COULD
build the car he wants and enjoy it for all those years otherwise spent looking for a car he may
never find, and just focus on finding a correct X-member and body tags, all the while spending
all that time in pleasure, as opposed to agonized frustration.

And let's just say he doesn't ever find those "correct parts" and the car remains "not quite right" ...
... the only issue I see with that is if someone tries to pass it off as a correct, as factory-built car.
If it was really done right otherwise, and could still be made to be 100% factory correct, then sell
it as that, ... a well done, very presentable and functional rebuild, missing a few key pieces that
can be added as found.

I mean, how many people on this board have restored their cars to EXACTLY as built ? Who hasn't
added an option or two or 20 ??? How is substituting in basic factory sheetmetal any different than
adding mirrors or upgrading the radio or side trim ?

If it is done well and not misrepresented, I see no issues, ethically or otherwise.
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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-30 4:46 PM (#394451 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		I'm with John & Brent....at which point is a car not its OEM self?

How much of the OEM car can be removed and still have it be considered as being its 'original' self?

Start with the OEM service parts, and end-up removing major body panels...

George Washington's axe, with new blades and handles on it....

IMO, if you have the frame (most of it), the firewall/A-pillar section (most of it), the OEM engine (block), and the OEM VIN &
P/T plates...you've got the core-basis of that particular car.

"50%" of the car? Which "50%" can be removed, and why, if it still has its OEM engine, frame, firewall/A-piller,
and VIN & P/T plates on it?








Edited by d500neil 2013-08-30 4:49 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-30 5:00 PM (#394455 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		A good question might be: what is the difference between a re-creation, or a replica, and a restoration?

At what point does a project (like using a hardtop body to produce a convertible) become a re-creation and not a restoration?

IMO, A "replica" is a re-creation WITHOUT having the OEM engine, and/or the OEM VIN and/or the OEM P/T plate in regards to what the "finished" product is 'supposed' to be.




Edited by d500neil 2013-08-30 5:02 PM
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ttotired
Posted 2013-08-30 6:55 PM (#394470 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Perth Australia		I think insisting on the orriginal engine would be harsh, or am I mis understanding?

50+ year old car with a replaced engine would not shock me

If its the wrong breed of engine, I agree with you

chevy engines do not belong in a mopar ect

But I would put a later SRT or Viper engine in one

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d500neil
Posted 2013-08-30 7:15 PM (#394474 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		Ours aren't Muscle Cars, where the engines were routinely destroyed w/i a short time.

I posited "and/or" in my criteria; if the engine or the body/interior were installed to try to 'create' another car model, the resulting
car would clearly be a "replica" of whatever it purported to be.

The various classes of our cars might be;

Survivor
Restored
Re-created
Replica
Hot Rod
Kustom



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carjock
Posted 2013-08-30 9:50 PM (#394495 - in reply to #393164)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!


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I agree with what you guys are saying.....I ALWAYS have! Not so with "others" on this site. I can remember the endless arguments about whether or not a particular, potentially valuable car could be sold for big $'s because it was NOT 100% original and fully documented as such. I'm really happy to see the change in attitude, but it sure is a shock!
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Beltran
Posted 2013-09-15 10:16 PM (#397891 - in reply to #394495)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Michigan		Well I went back today and got to clearing up all the brush from around the vehicle. Here are some pics. Let's see if you guys come to the same conclusions.





(IMG_1336 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1337 (700x525).jpg)



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(IMG_1339 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1340 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1341 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1343 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1344 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1345 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1346 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1348 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1349 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1350 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1351 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1352 (700x525).jpg)



(IMG_1353 (700x525).jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_1336 (700x525).jpg (265KB - 118 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1337 (700x525).jpg (248KB - 112 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1338 (700x525).jpg (258KB - 112 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1339 (700x525).jpg (116KB - 118 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1340 (700x525).jpg (238KB - 124 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1341 (700x525).jpg (120KB - 113 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1343 (700x525).jpg (124KB - 115 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1344 (700x525).jpg (207KB - 126 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1345 (700x525).jpg (272KB - 111 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1346 (700x525).jpg (262KB - 111 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1348 (700x525).jpg (288KB - 116 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1349 (700x525).jpg (212KB - 117 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1350 (700x525).jpg (154KB - 118 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1351 (700x525).jpg (258KB - 109 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1352 (700x525).jpg (231KB - 121 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1353 (700x525).jpg (244KB - 115 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-09-15 10:43 PM (#397896 - in reply to #397891)
Subject: Re: My first real Barn find!



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Location: Parts Unknown		I am afraid this poor beast might be too far gone for all but the most committed desirer of
a 55 ragtop.

I am no expert on 55-56's, but if they are the same as 57-59's, you are going to need a
coupe frame and coupe body to get the ball rolling. The X-member is made of really heavy
stuff, and likely can be salvaged.

How does the top mechanism look ?

It is going to be a deep project, but it IS possible if someone is committed. My Adventurer
came to me as CHUNKS on pallets, and my Fireflite required going almost this deep on. If you
remind yourself it is "just metal" and keep pounding and welding, it can be made beautiful again.
The sense of satisfaction for doing it would be pretty intense.
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