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Location: little rock, AR | If you don't watch out your going to have one of those things called, Trailer Queens. Looking Great. |
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Veteran
Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | FIN ME: Thanks. I am just so glad to get the Firesweep after these many years, that I want to get out and drive it. The progress will surely slow down very soon. Lots of minor body work to do and that is not my forte. I am still trying to decide if I should farm out the body work. I don't have a great place to paint within, but it will do in a pinch. My wife, Cathy says to send it out for the paint and upholstery and that will be what I end up doing.
I did find the problem with the gas gauge and have ordered a replacement fuel sender for the car. BIG M also helped me out big time. He had a dash clock and a knob that goes on the heater lever that I was missing.
Edited by baker53 2014-03-18 12:45 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | oldwood: Thanks for the comment on the car. This will not be a trailer queen, that is for sure. I enjoy working on the old cars, but I am not of the caliber of the great restorers that I have seen over the years. Here is a link to a web page of mine that shows some of the cars I built over the years. There is a bunch of radio stuff at the beginning, then some pictures of my shop, (which needs to be updated), followed by the old cars.
https://sites.google.com/site/w5sgbill/
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Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | Cool stuff. Wish I had such a nice shop setup. |
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | Thanks Jim. It all gets used regularly either on a project for me or one of the guys around here.
Edited by baker53 2014-03-18 9:05 PM
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | The brake lines came in a day late so I got busy bending them using the old ones as patterns. The brake assemblies and drums are all mounted and pre-adjusted. Tomorrow I'll install the new brake lines and bleed the system. Also, FEDEX delivered a NOS '57 Desoto muffler which will be going on in the not too distant future.
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 RF Brake and Line.jpg (52KB - 133 downloads)
RR Brake and Line.jpg (44KB - 143 downloads)
NOS Muffler.jpg (55KB - 139 downloads)
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | So, Bill...when can I ship you my '57 Chrysler...?  |
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | Hi Brad, Those '57 Chrysler's are great. I have a friend near here that has a '57 New Yorker 2-door hardtop. He built it about ten years ago and sold it to a guy in CA. He was out in CA a year or so ago and called the new owner. He ended up buying it back and is enjoying it here in TX once again.
Edited by baker53 2014-03-18 11:24 PM
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Posts: 2788
Location: USA - KY | 
Thank you, baker53 for the link! Great shop you have. I'm jealous!
Wow, you've restored a lot of very nifty cars in your day! We could sure use your talents here, closer to home.
AND! Best of all...I am about 90% sure that the black and white photo of the '57 Firesweep that you have on your site, is a photo of my car!
It looks so much like an old photo that I've seen before, of the car sitting in the previous owner's driveway. Ed would likely know for sure.
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1957_DeSoto_Firesweep-large.jpg (38KB - 137 downloads)
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Location: Klein, TX | FIN ME: It very well could be. We lost a number of pictures and albums during a flood in 1994 and many of the older car pictures were lost. I have managed to contact a few friends from the past that had some pictures. I went on line and looked for pictures of the cars I was missing as well as some of the early radio station pictures. BTW, we were flooded again in 1998 and Cathy said we are getting out of here. We sold the house as is and moved to this place in 1998. My request to Cathy who was searching for a new place was to to look for a 12 car garage with a house attached. That didn't happen, but at least I have more shop space than at the old place.
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Location: Klein, TX | Finished installing the new brake lines and bleeding the brakes today. The car is still up on jack stands but the brakes work great. After I finish a few more under the car chores, I'll take it for a test drive. |
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Location: USA - KY | baker53 - 2014-03-19 4:28 PM
...My request to Cathy who was searching for a new place was to to look for a 12 car garage with a house attached...
Sounds reasonable to me!
Leon, the gentleman who used to own my car, confirmed that is a photo of his old car...my "new" Firesweep. 
That's a very cool coincidence!
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Location: New Castle PA | Gee, I didn't even get the chance to confirm that the picture is of Leon's car (now Rosy's), but it certainly is. Bill, you're doing an amazing job. Keep it up! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Bill, I didn't notice your distributor's Sun analyzer's results, on Page-2, until now.
Right now, your stock dissie has X(Engine) + 18 (built-in Mechanical Advancement) + 24 (Vacuum Advance[ment]) = UNK Total
Advancement.
Because a 2-bbl carb can not fill a combustion chamber to the extent that a 4-bbl carb does, a 2-bbl system can withstand
more total advancement (something above 50-degrees) than a 4-bbl system (which can withstand up to about 50 degrees
of total advancement, without the engine detonating--'pinging'--not good)
If you do nothing else, you should install (very-) light weight return springs in your dissie, because it only reaches its (wimpy-)
18 degrees of M.A. until 3,600 RPM which is (at) pretty fast speed.
The lighter return springs will allow the 18 degrees of M.A. to be reached at slower RPM; maybe at around 2,800 rpm, which
will give you better economy and performance.
If the dissie is not re-curved (to increase its M.A. to about 22-24 degrees, from its current 18), you could dial-in about
8 degrees of Engine Initial Advance + 18 M.A. + 24 V.A. = 50 degrees.
The 8 degrees of I.A. should keep your engine from 'pinging' with Regular grade gasoline, at start-up acceleration.
8+18 = 26 degrees of Total Mechanical Advancement, which means that your WOT acceleration will not be as high
as it would be, if you could get the dissie re-curved, so that 8+ 22/24 = 30 or 32, which is still less than the optimum
35-36 degrees, but, considerably better than what you've got now.
Again, because you've got a 2-bbl carb, you can keep your 24 degree V.A......because 8+22+24 =54 or, even 8+24+24=
56 (which is still marginally OK; you might need to use Mid-Level gas, but, the amount of Engine I.A. can be lowered, to
keep you running on Regular gas.
Edited by d500neil 2014-03-19 8:31 PM
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | Thanks Ed, I'll keep plugging along. Hopefully, the replacement fuel sending unit will be here soon and I can install it. I wire brushed all the crud away from around the sending unit and sprayed some penetrating fluid on it. Hopefully, the retaining ring will come off easily. I also have on order a NOS cross-over pipe that I would like to install while the car is still up on the jack stands. The old cross-over pipe still looks good, but I found one and thought I would install it before taking the car and the NOS muffler to the muffler shop. The old exhaust system including the muffler is full of rust holes.
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Location: Klein, TX | d500neil: Thanks for your distributor input. No problem on re-curving the distributor. I have a bunch of springs and the Sun 504 distributor machine here in my shop. I'll make sure to keep your info at hand for the next iteration.
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DIST 1.jpg (86KB - 147 downloads)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | That's GOOD news.
If you can score a Vacuum Advance that provides something less than the 24 degrees that your OEM guy has, you will
be able to dial in some serious M.A. into the dissie.
The V.A.'s have their distributor advancement stamped onto their lever arms; our Crankshaft (or 'engine'-) advancement is
twice that number, so, you're looking for a V.A. with 8-11 stamped onto it....the lower, the better, for your car's accleration
rate.
Edited by d500neil 2014-03-19 8:27 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | Had a set back today. My new fuel sending unit arrived and I decided to check it out before pulling the old one out. The new unit has a broken wire on it that can be fixed but the resistance value for FULL was off. It should be 200 ohms and it reads 130. So I have to send it back and get a replacement. I was hoping to get that issue fixed, but that is the way it goes some days. |
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | Put the wheels back on and took a test drive. Engine and transmission seem to be working well. I need to do some more work on the brakes though. Seems like the shoes are not centered in the drums and the brakes pulsate a bit. It got better after driving a bit, but still needs work.. |
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Expert
Posts: 4044
Location: Connecticut | Bill - Is your original sending unit rebuildable ? If so, you may want to go that route. Another thought is to look on ebay for a NOS unit. They show up from time to time. In either case, be sure that there is a filter installed on the end of the pickup tube. Ron |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 537
Location: Upstate NY | Who rebuilds old sending units? I have a half dozen or more that are so varnished up they don't read. I tried all kinds of solvents but if it worked on the wiper, it killed the winding. I would love to send one off to get fixed. I've read so many problems with the new ones not reading right.
Thanks |
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | I think I found the issue with the brakes on the Desoto. The alignment holes on the drums were distorted. The run-out on the right rear was .070" and the left rear was .150". I setup the right rear drum on the mill and indexed the five holes and re-bore them and the run-out on the right rear is now .007" I'll do the left rear drum in the morning and then try things out again. I could see chattering marks on the rear shoes and that is what I think I was feeling. BTW, the run-out on the front drums was around .007" |
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Location: Klein, TX | ronbo97: Hi Ron, I have not pulled it out of the tank yet. When I measured the resistance it was around 39 K Ohm. It may be just corrosion around the wiper. I may pull it out and check it. |
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Posts: 1488
Location: New Castle PA | bbrasse1, John Wolfe and Co. rebuilt my sending unit. http://johnwolfco.com/
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Posts: 537
Location: Upstate NY | Thanks Ed! |
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Posts: 2788
Location: USA - KY |
Bill, I'm happy to hear that the test drive went well! Won't be long now before you're driving around in style.
BTW - sent you a PM.
Please keep the photos and updates coming - great thread!
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | Thanks Rosy. I received the PM and sent an e-mail back to you. I have been lazy yesterday and today. I'll get back on the project tomorrow. We are being deluged by yellow pollen dust. Everything is covered with the stuff. We need a good rain to wash some of it away. |
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Location: Klein, TX | Started pulling out the old exhaust system. The cross-over pipe and the intermediate pipe going to the muffler looked to be in great condition. I have a NOS cross-over pipe, but I may not put it in due to the great condition of the one already on the car. The muffler and tailpipe are another story. Really rusted up. I have a NOS muffler that will go on the car and I think the old tail pipe will be useable as a model for the tubing bender at the muffler shop.
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exhaust 001.jpg (84KB - 137 downloads)
exhaust 002.jpg (70KB - 138 downloads)
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Location: Klein, TX | Any one know what mounted in the hole to the left of the parking brake handle? I am thinking it was a lamp to indicate that the parking brake was engaged.
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dash hole.jpg (41KB - 131 downloads)
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Posts: 2788
Location: USA - KY |
You'd be right!
Here's a pic from a '57 Firedome; you can just see the yellow light that comes on when the hand brake is operational.
Edited by FIN ME 2014-03-24 11:49 AM
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desoto_dash.jpg (39KB - 130 downloads)
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Posts: 2788
Location: USA - KY |
A '58 Firesweep dash - not a great photo, but at least it's a close up. Shows the missing ashtray drawer from the optional passenger side ashtray, attached to the right hand side of the heater control surround.
Other than the paint colour, the configuration of the vents on top of the dash, and the placement of the rear view mirror, the dash is the same as the '57's - well, I can't tell from this photo if the design in the pressed metal is exactly the same in the '58's as it is in the 57's, but you get the idea. Also, with the '57 Firesweeps, the bases of the two instrument "pods" on either side of the steering wheel are usually painted the same colour as the the dash behind them. I don't know for certain if this was the case originally, or if they just ended up being painted during subsequent restorations. Ed would know for sure. It's one of the very few questions that I haven't asked him yet.
Edited by FIN ME 2014-03-24 12:25 PM
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58-DeSoto-Firesweep-DV-09_GC_i07.jpg (213KB - 130 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 2788
Location: USA - KY |
Here's a 1957 Firesweep that's a pretty good "reference" car for the most part:
http://www.schmitt.com/viewimage.asp?ID=4561
Its dash:
Edited by FIN ME 2014-03-24 12:19 PM
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405237-34.jpg (56KB - 132 downloads)
405237-38.jpg (63KB - 132 downloads)
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | Thanks for the pictures Rosy. |
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | I received the replacement fuel sender and like the first one it has an incorrect range. It should be 10-200 ohms and is 10-124 ohms. I am going to send both of them back and hopefully, get a refund.
I did pull the original sender from the tank and was able to clean it up and re-install it. It works and I now can see how much gas is in the tank. |
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Posts: 4044
Location: Connecticut | Best to stick with original rather than questionable aftermarket units. Was the filter still attached to the pick up tube on the sending unit ? Ron |
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Veteran
Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | ronbo97: Yes, it was still attached and looked very clean. I looked into the tank as best as I could and the tank bottom looked clean and I did not see any rust. The shaft that the wiper arm attaches to was stuck in the empty position. I sprayed it with some lubricant and slowly worked it back and forth till it moved smoothly. I also checked the cork floats in water and was able to move the wiper arm up and down. I noticed that the unit used a conical non-linear resistor which was pretty neat. Presumably that was done to account for the tanks shape. |
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Posts: 1488
Location: New Castle PA | Body of gauges should be argent silver, Rosy... |
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | Talk about a big mess. I forgot how fast the oil came out of the drain plug on the 325 engine. It overflowed my plastic oil collector and I spent a while cleaning up the mess. That oil filter canister is no joy to work with either, but all is well now and the Firesweep has 7 quarts of fresh oil and a new filter. |
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Posts: 4044
Location: Connecticut | baker53 - 2014-03-25 3:57 PM Talk about a big mess. I forgot how fast the oil came out of the drain plug on the 325 engine. It overflowed my plastic oil collector and I spent a while cleaning up the mess. That oil filter canister is no joy to work with either, but all is well now and the Firesweep has 7 quarts of fresh oil and a new filter. Woah Bill. Seven quarts ??? I'm thinking it should be six, including the filter. Please verify before starting the engine. Also, many of us have replaced the PITA canister with an adapter that allows a modern, screw on filter to be used. Ron |
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | Ronbo: Just checked the service manual and it says 6 quarts with filter. I must have an incorrect dip stick it that 7 quarts brought it up to the Full mark on the dip stick. Before changing the oil, I checked the dip stick and it was right at the full mark, so it had been running at that level for I don't know how long. |
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Location: Klein, TX | ronbo97: If you have any info on that adapter, I would be most grateful to get it and order one. |
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Posts: 4044
Location: Connecticut | baker53 - 2014-03-25 5:17 PM Ronbo: Just checked the service manual and it says 6 quarts with filter. I must have an incorrect dip stick it that 7 quarts brought it up to the Full mark on the dip stick. Before changing the oil, I checked the dip stick and it was right at the full mark, so it had been running at that level for I don't know how long. Overfilling the engine with oil is never a good thing. You need to drain a quart from that guy. For the oil filter adapter, try these guys: Hot Hemi Heads Their adapter may fit your 325. Ron |
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | ronbo97: If you have a 325 poly engine, please measure the dip stick from the Full mark to the top of the cap. The dip stick I have measures 21 inches from the Full mark to the top of the cap. |
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Location: USA - KY | 57desoto - 2014-03-25 6:48 AM
Body of gauges should be argent silver, Rosy...
Thanks, Ed!
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Posts: 4044
Location: Connecticut | Sorry, no 325. Maybe Neil can jump in here. Ron |
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Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | Time to tackle the floors on the Firesweep. For the most part, floors are not too bad, but still lots of patching to be done. I have after-market floor panels for the front and will cut portions of them to be be welded in.
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floor 001.jpg (62KB - 139 downloads)
floor 002.jpg (69KB - 132 downloads)
floor 003.jpg (69KB - 136 downloads)
floor 004.jpg (70KB - 136 downloads)
floor 005.jpg (63KB - 133 downloads)
floor 006.jpg (68KB - 139 downloads)
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Posts: 1493
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | Hi-- on my 325 poly engine, the dip stick measures ~20 3/4" inches from the Full mark to the cap. |
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Veteran
Posts: 279
Location: Klein, TX | JT Vincent: Only a 1/4" difference. I checked to see if the tube was not fully seated into the block. It looked to be correct. Did Desoto offer a optional large capacity oil pan by some chance? |
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Posts: 1488
Location: New Castle PA | Nope. |
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Posts: 2788
Location: USA - KY |
BTW, baker53 - the photos and info regarding your Desoto's vintage-after-market AC system have really come in handy, providing important clues as to how to install a similar, modern AC system into my Firesweep's engine compartment!
Thank you!
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New member intro : '57 Desoto Firesweep
