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318 Fuel Economy
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-04-02 1:03 PM (#434296)
Subject: 318 Fuel Economy



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While much collector attention is given to making Forward Look cars go faster, I would be interested to
know how 318 fans have been able to tweak them to get maximum good fuel economy, and what numbers
they've been able to achieve.

Anyone ?
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60 dart
Posted 2014-04-02 3:23 PM (#434324 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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what you should of asked for is fuel mileage without fudging the truth -----------------------------------later
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d500neil
Posted 2014-04-02 4:08 PM (#434332 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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...You can start with getting your distributor re-curved, and re-springed, to maximize both performance and MPG.

Then, get or modify a Vacuum Advance to provide about 12-14 degrees of additional (cruise-) timing, so
that your engine's total advancement is close to 50 degrees, at something under 3,000 RPM.



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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2014-04-02 4:17 PM (#434334 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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Are we talking 318 poly's here? Or also 318 LA engines aswell?

Without trying to go too far out of the range of this forum, I've been doing a number of things to improve the mileage of my daily ('73) 318.
Main thing I've found is the lack of compression ratio makes an engine inefficient and not able to get very good mileage.
Also I've found that installing a beafier '90s overdrive transmission with an late '60s inefficient converter plays havoc with mileage aswell



Edited by BigBlockMopar 2014-04-02 4:19 PM
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ttotired
Posted 2014-04-02 7:08 PM (#434362 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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My dodge has gone about 1 mile and used up about 2 tanks of fuel so far, so I think it might be using a bit much?

I am interested to see how it is with the 2x4 on it, but its not driven anywhere while I have had it with the 2 barrel on it, so nothing to really compare it to once I do get to drive it around

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d500neil
Posted 2014-04-02 8:32 PM (#434376 - in reply to #434362)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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The B-series engines' distributors rotate in a clockwise direction, Polys/Hemi's: counter/anti-clockwise, but their
operational specifics are the same.

Initial Advance at and beyond 10 degrees: detonation/pinging

Total Mechanical Advance: (I.A. + whatever your dissie provides, with two LIGHT-weight springs installed): at and beyond 36 degrees: detonation/pinging

Total Advance, at cruise-mode: (I.A + dissie's M.A. + Vacuum Advance's contribution): at and beyond 50 degrees: detonation/pinging.

A 2-bbl carb can allow for higher advancements than the above, because it can not fill the cylinder with as much air/fuel charge as the 4-bbl provides.

Also, with most dissie's combination of one light-weight spring and one (much-)heavier spring, the heavier
spring will slow down the rate of timing advancement until very high RPM's are reached, maybe at 4,800,
compared to two light-weights' fully advanced timing at, maybe 2,800 RPM.







Edited by d500neil 2014-04-02 8:39 PM
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2014-04-03 8:23 AM (#434416 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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I'm running 17-18 initial advance on my daily 318

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FwdLk56
Posted 2014-04-03 9:32 AM (#434423 - in reply to #434416)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy


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BigBlockMopar - 2014-04-03 8:23 AM

I'm running 17-18 initial advance on my daily 318



What octane gasoline are you running?
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1959Dodge
Posted 2014-04-03 9:51 AM (#434425 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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Much depends on how you drive the car Doc, and the rear end ratio, (if you do a lot of cruising).

When the 64 was only a year or so old, and still had the 426 Wedge with the AFB carb, dual ignition points (factory stock),
and the 323 rear end ratio, I decided to drive it as one would in a "Mobile gas economy run".

I never went over 60 mph and I "Took my Sweet time getting to 60 mph".

The car got 19.3 mph and with a little more practice, I probably could have got >20 mpg.

But, as I said, this was NOT normal driving.

The car now has a 413 engine that runs on 89, A Barry Grant Carb and Chrysler Electronic ignition,
and the 727 TF tranny. I will have to measure the MPG, but it's not that bad, at least compared to
the 440 in my 59 Dodge.

I also had a 57 Desoto, that I dropped a 413 in, and alto I never measure the mileage, recalling
those days in the 60's, it wasn't that bad.

I think with a heavy car, and staying off the throttle, plus a high gear ratio, that at least for cruising,
the bigger block "Might" get better mpg as the motor is just "Loafing" pulling the big car around.

Now if you really want mileage, go with the latest ignition and fuel injection, and I bet you can
"Top", 20 mpg with a big block.

"To Me", The Swedes, "have it right", You measure "Smiles/gallon" and that's what I do, usually it's
pedal to the metal and the He** with MPG!!!!!

Gary
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safetymike77
Posted 2014-04-03 10:53 AM (#434430 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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I had a 66 coronet with a 318 that I was getting arould 24 a gallon with on the 2 barrel. The pickle, I would get over 20 with all engines but the clapped out 318 LA I had in it for a season. It was over 20 with the 318 poly in several variations, 2, 4 and 2 4 barrels and the 400 with a 3X2 setup. All were over 20 to a gallon. I would laugh at listening to the chevy guys talking about getting 8 or 9 miles to a gallon. It is all about getting the engine set up for efficiency and planning for good mileage. The pickle had highway gears in it, which helped alot. So did the Coronet. 2.73's for both, or close to that, anyway. Ironically, it shows too in newer vehicles. My blue ram which was a 2011, I was getting 23 miles to a gallon with the hemi. My 2012 with more of a towing gear set in it, I am getting around 15 at best. With a fully loaded trailer, my current truck was running 13 a gallon. That was this last trip to Iowa to pick up a 66 Thunderbird. With my old truck, I got 11 to a gallon when I bought the 60 dodge out of Minneapolis.
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1959Dodge
Posted 2014-04-03 11:00 AM (#434433 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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You might find this interesting Doc.

2014 Chrysler 300 8 cyl, 5.7 L, (350 cubic inch) Automatic 5-spd, Midgrade Gasoline
Compare2014 Chrysler 300

15
City

18
Combined

25
Highway


2014 Chrysler 300 SRT8 8 cyl, 6.4 L, (391 cubic inches). Automatic 5-spd, Premium Gasoline
Compare2014 Chrysler 300 SRT8

14
City

17
Combined

23
Highway

So only 2 mpg less with the "392" hemi as opposed to the "350 hemi"

What seemed to make more difference than engine size was the number of gears the automatic tranny had.
Those that had 8 speeds did better than the 5 speed, and in 2015 they have a 9 speed available.

Part of that would be a higher cruising gear, but the lower gear when you do a lot of start/stopping probably helps too.

Gary
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FwdLk56
Posted 2014-04-03 11:40 AM (#434444 - in reply to #434425)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy


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Location: Indiana
1959Dodge - 2014-04-03 9:51 AM

I never went over 60 mph and I "Took my Sweet time getting to 60 mph".


If you're into or know about "hypermiling", you have this part incorrect.
You're not supposed to take your time to get to 60, but nor are you suppose to floor it either, the sweet spot varies from one car to the next.

It's about "weighted averages" (your car's "combined" fuel efficiency, averaging city versus highway, is a "weighted average").

Consider a 5-minute block.

You can take a whole minute at 12mpg to reach 60mph where you are then at 30mpg for 4.0 minutes.
The weighted averge for the 5-minute block is 26.4mpg.

Or STEP ON THE GAS and take 30 seconds at 8mpg to reach 60 but then sit at 30mpg for a LONGER 4.5 minutes.
The weighted average for the 5-minute block is now 27.8mpg.


Your are BETTER OFF at NOT taking "too long" to get to "highway" mpg !!!...
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2014-04-03 4:41 PM (#434485 - in reply to #434423)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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FwdLk56 - 2014-04-03 3:32 AM

What octane gasoline are you running?



The engine runs on Propane.
Using a custom tailored ignition curve optimized for the gaseous fuel.

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FwdLk56
Posted 2014-04-03 7:43 PM (#434499 - in reply to #434485)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy


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BigBlockMopar - 2014-04-03 4:41 PM

FwdLk56 - 2014-04-03 3:32 AM

What octane gasoline are you running?



The engine runs on Propane.
Using a custom tailored ignition curve optimized for the gaseous fuel.


Ah, very cool!

So if we compare dollars - at $4/gal for gas and 30mpg highway, that puts me at (4 divided by 30) $0.133 per mile.

What dollars per mile are you getting by running Propane?
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1961plymouthfury
Posted 2014-04-03 8:28 PM (#434509 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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My 318 was ran on premium because were I went to fuel there was no ethanol in it. I also put marvel mystery oil in the tank every other fill up. I also wrote down the milage and how many gallons it took to fill up.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-04-04 1:56 AM (#434524 - in reply to #434509)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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So, how many miles per gallon did you average ???

I've seen this all over the board, but the general rule of thumb as I've come to know it is
"Grandpa" type driving, good, high gears for cruising speeds, and an engine choice and sub-
sequent build to maximize efficiency for the car it will go in.

My 66 Coronet ran a 273 2bbl with 2.76 gears and got TERRIBLE fuel economy ... around 10 mpg !

With a built-for-economy 440 Magnum, 4-speed, and 3.23 posi, it gets about 15 !

I have come to believe the 440 simply consumes too much air with that displacement to
squeeze any great numbers out of one. But the "loping along" vs. "wound out" smaller engine
gave me 50% better mileage.

The 318 seems an undersized mill for a Forward Look size/weight car to get really great mpg,
but I could be wrong ???? Anyone ever try and build a 318 car to get 30 mpg ?
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FwdLk56
Posted 2014-04-04 6:53 AM (#434535 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy


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Location: Indiana
I don't know too many in the 60-and-older crowd that rebuild classics with fuel efficiency a higher priority over horsepower/torque.

My dad (turns 70 later this year) is "hoping" to get high 20s for mpg in his '53 Studebaker Starliner.
He's using a 4.3L V6 Vortec LB4 and I keep telling him to expect only 18 to 22 or so, but he's not listening and only time will tell, only after it's on the road will our "bet" be settled.

But he is "striving" for high 20s and I don't see too much of that around.
So I give him credit for that.

More often than not, when you ask a restoration guy what mpg he hopes to get, all you hear are field cricket chirps and a resounding, "Who cares! It's going to get around X hp and Y lb-ft!"...
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1959Dodge
Posted 2014-04-04 9:24 AM (#434544 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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I think You are onto something here Doc.
Recall that I had a 57 "Semi Desoto", (Firesweep).
It had the 326 poly and did not get that great a mileage, alto the engine was "Shot" and it had the powerflite.

The 413 I put in it (if I stayed "off It"), along with the TF got better mileage.

My self I really do like the 413, a smaller bore, so not as much "Air as the 440" but it has lotsa Torque.

So you can have it both ways~~~~~You want mileage, then stay off the pedal,
You want some "Smiles", "Step on It"!!

Gary

Edited by 1959Dodge 2014-04-04 9:25 AM
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firedome
Posted 2014-04-04 9:50 AM (#434547 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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I think it's smart to look for greatly improved mileage or alternative fuels for vintage cars, if we want to be driving them much in the future, as no doubt gas prices will be much higher and availability much poorer. Propane/LNG might be a smart way t go in the long run... but then again as John Maynard Keynes once said "well, in the long run we are all dead!".
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FwdLk56
Posted 2014-04-04 10:22 AM (#434553 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy


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Location: Indiana
I was looking into a compressed natural gas conversion on an 80s Plymouth Horizon a couple summers back.
I can't find my Excel spreadsheet at the moment, but I seem to recall that when it boiled down to DOLLARS per mile, the gains were close enought that now that natural gas prices are higher, it's likely a "wash" now.

But, I'd still love to NEVER have to visit a gas station EVER again, just fill up the tank from my home's natural gas line.


Staying off the pedal - the BIGGEST factor in improving fuel efficiency is to COAST for as LONG as possible.
Don't keep the foot on the gas and wait to hit the brakes when there is a red light ahead.
It also keeps the person in the passenger seat from putting his/her foot through the floorboard.

Most modern cars jump way over 70 mpg when COASTING to that red light, MAXIMIZE that instead of keeping that foot on the gas pedal and braking "last minute".

Edited by FwdLk56 2014-04-04 12:51 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-04-04 1:17 PM (#434588 - in reply to #434553)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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Gary,

I had a 413 crossram New Yorker that delivered astounding fuel economy. I never tracked it,
but one time I discovered I had dropped my "set back" $100 bill on the ground somewhere, and
found myself near Pysht, Washington with a quarter tank of gas and no money or credit card !

I drove the coast highway to Aberdeen to pick up the kid at her Aunt's, and then at the neurotic
wife's insistance, drove all the way home to Olympia on empty ! I fully expected to run out of
gas all along the last half of the trip, but we made it, and I made it to the gas station the next morning
too !

Much can be done to make our cars get better fuel economy, from fresh, high quality bearings
to good lubricants, to gear ratios and engine build, and of course, how we drive them. I tend to
drive the way my instructor taught me to when I was a kid, anticipating hills and lights to speed
up or ease off on the gas to minimize having to get the car up to speed from a stop. This has
served me well over the years in this regard. I just put a new engine in my truck. The machine
shop guy and I were talking tech and I told him I got 26.1 averaged mpg pulling a trailer to California
(Big M's place) and doing the same back, but with a car body on the trailer. He thought I was full
of it, but the trick is in working your build tech to maximum efficiency and then driving with care
to not have your "foot in it". There were times I was dragging 10 mph up some long drags to keep
my gears and rpm's down. Didn't make those people behind me very happy, but since they weren't
filling my tank, I wasn't too concerned with how THEY wanted me to drive.

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60 dart
Posted 2014-04-04 2:32 PM (#434592 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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you can get a ton of fuel mileage when the fuel gauge is wrong ---------------------------------------------------------------later
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60 dart
Posted 2014-04-04 2:34 PM (#434593 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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there's a natural gas , 318 setup right now on ebay . 300 and what ever dollars to start . needs rebuild but buyer has parts ---------------------------------------------later
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2014-04-04 5:24 PM (#434614 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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The fuel guage does nothing for mileage. I think you mean the speedometer gauge.

Virg,
The mileage in my daily Dart is still not what I hoped it would be.
Main reason for that is I pretty much only do short, 15-20 minute commuting trips with a cold engine. For this my daily mileage is around 10mpg in the wintertime and perhaps about 14mpg during summertime.
Another reason is I had installed a large 'bigblock' stall convertor in the A518, behind the low compression 318. That extra convertor diameter and weight has a big effect on the engine, which I found out last week when I installed a better suited, smaller stall convertor, matching the A518 transmission. The engine revved easier in neutral and felt obvious 'snappier' on the road. I also installed another A518, now with converter-lockup aswell and a TransGo kit.
I expect mileage to increase just because of the smaller convertor alone.

Other things I've done already are;
- Recurved the ignition advance curve and propane convertor and fuel mixer-adjustments with an AFR-gauge.
- Installed lightweight wheels.
- Cold air intake.
- Dual exhaust with 2-1/4" pipes.
- Using 5w20 semi synth. oil in the engine. This alone lowered the engine temps by 15 deg. F (!)
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1959Dodge
Posted 2014-04-04 6:55 PM (#434619 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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There was a guy at the Spring or Fall Fling , last year with a 65 Chrysler, (to Me) ugly car, but it
had a real interesting engine. Was either a 413 or maybe a 440 with the long ram induction.
Instead of carbs, He had throttle body fuel injection in place of the carbs, (Ferd, I think).

If he has that car at the Spring fling tomorrow, I will take pictures and quiz him on the
vehicle's performance, Power, fuel mileage, etc.

Gary
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Rodger
Posted 2014-04-04 7:07 PM (#434621 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy


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Hola Yo'll

in the era of this site the only MoPars that had of used The Fluid Drive Engine Fan's was The Imperial Division and The Senior Part of The Chrysler Division
It took until the middle 70's that all engine's in any Division got this unit ... and it was even with non A/C Vehicles.

Because The Fluid Drive Units stop using energy from the engine by 20 MPH - this equals to a better MPG Data. Look into using #271-303 or any other make
that is these spec's.

Add this to all the better comments listed above.



Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs
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1959Dodge
Posted 2014-04-04 8:23 PM (#434630 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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You talking about the "Slip clutch fan", R&G?.
My 64 Dodge came stock with one of those, and it still does, as does my 59 Dodge, (alto not stock).

Gary
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Rodger
Posted 2014-04-04 9:49 PM (#434637 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy


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Gary

If it came as a OEM Item - then it must of been a 361 or 383 with Factory A/C and The Fan Shroud - in a "Senior Series Dodge".



Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs
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VAN HELSING
Posted 2014-04-05 1:55 AM (#434652 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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......

Apart from modifying and tuning an engine for economy the best friend for a fuel miser to get the best MPG is to get a vacuum guage installed in the car, technically speaking the more vacuum you have the less fuel the car is consuming.


.......
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Mopar1
Posted 2014-04-05 5:45 AM (#434657 - in reply to #434652)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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low restriction air cleaner, dual ex system, small 4 bl vs 2 bl all help. Had a '69 Plym S/W that got about 9-10 in town, next car was a '69 Charger, 383 2 bl, 727/3.23s. Got 12 or so in town (20% increase!) & 17 on the road.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-04-05 4:46 PM (#434689 - in reply to #434657)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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My thoughts, perzackly ... Not sure if there is a better head/valve option for the 318, as they
went out of production before that became the science it did later. Small 4bbl carb, electronic
ignition, windage tray, gear ratios seem about the same for a big block.
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60 dart
Posted 2014-04-05 4:53 PM (#434690 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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wonderin how a windage tray figures into fuel mileage ----------------------------------------------------------later
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1961plymouthfury
Posted 2014-04-05 10:11 PM (#434715 - in reply to #434524)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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The highest I got was 23.5 and I did not step on the gas. This was when I went on a mystery cruise that involved classic cars. I filled the car up I drove 235 miles and I filled it up again and it took 10 gallons to fill it back up I also ran Hightest in my car
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-04-05 11:36 PM (#434720 - in reply to #434690)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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Good intel. Thanks.

Chuck, it has been a while since my tech friends presented their arguments for using the windage
tray as a factor in increasing fuel economy, but basically, it increased efficiency by reducing internal
drag and slop. As it was explained to me, the crank, splashing into the oil pool in the pan is something
considered "science" by serious racers, and the tech equally applies toward efficiency in trying to achieve
max fuel economy. There was more to it than that, but that was the basic idea.
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60 dart
Posted 2014-04-06 12:09 AM (#434723 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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tell you friends they don't know what they are talkin about . crank doesn't hit the oil in reserve in the pan . even common sense will tell one , if crank did dip into oil in the oil pan , installing a windage tray ,
what would happen . the crank would hit the windage tray . install a windage tray below oil line , crank would still make oil contact . what a windage tray does , is help stop oil from foaming at high rpm . letting
the oil pick up , pull oil with less air contamination . it just defies common sense unless maybe they have never opened an oil pan . bench racing don't count ------------------------------------------------later

Edited by 60 dart 2014-04-06 12:10 AM
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Mopar1
Posted 2014-04-06 10:12 AM (#434750 - in reply to #434723)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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At least some of the long tail 331s came with windage trays, but they seem to have been discontinued by '54.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2014-04-06 3:17 PM (#434773 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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That 1958 Belvedere sedan I had for a little while averaged 14.5 all around. 318 poly, PowerFlite trans, 3.36 gears all completely stock.
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1960fury
Posted 2014-04-06 5:08 PM (#434795 - in reply to #434723)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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60 dart - 2014-04-06 12:09 AM

tell you friends they don't know what they are talkin about . crank doesn't hit the oil in reserve in the pan . even common sense will tell one , if crank did dip into oil in the oil pan , installing a windage tray ,
what would happen . the crank would hit the windage tray . install a windage tray below oil line , crank would still make oil contact . what a windage tray does , is help stop oil from foaming at high rpm . letting
the oil pick up , pull oil with less air contamination . it just defies common sense unless maybe they have never opened an oil pan . bench racing don't count ------------------------------------------------later


??? actually a windage tray does improve hp AND mileage. a simple windage can give you a free 20+ hp increase at high rpm. you can expect a 2-4% hp gain in a street engine. a windage tray does not use any power and it makes an engine more efficient, this translates into improved mileage.
it has nothing to do with foaming. its about reducing ROTATING MASS. reduced rotating mass means more power and less fuel consumption. at higher engine speeds the oil is sucked up by the crank, so to speak, it wraps itself around the crank and this vortex can hold lots of oil. another plus is less chance of air sucked into the system and less chance of crank failure, also you can "overfill" the crankcase by a quart or so.

Edited by 1960fury 2014-04-06 5:58 PM




(windage.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments windage.jpg (9KB - 25 downloads)
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FwdLk56
Posted 2014-04-06 5:29 PM (#434799 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy


20002525
Location: Indiana
I've always heard from 5 to 10 hp increase for a windage tray...
I've never heard 20+...

But I'm speaking more generally, I'm not sure on the effects specific to a 440...
But for the purpose of the thread, the question wasn't about the 440 but rather a 318...
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1960fury
Posted 2014-04-06 5:36 PM (#434801 - in reply to #434799)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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FwdLk56 - 2014-04-06 5:29 PM

I've always heard from 5 to 10 hp increase for a windage tray...
I've never heard 20+...

But I'm speaking more generally, I'm not sure on the effects specific to a 440...
But for the purpose of the thread, the question wasn't about the 440 but rather a 318...


depends on rpm. the higher the rpm the more power is wasted by weight. mopar performance dynoed a high performance 440, iirc at 6500 rpm it was a 20+ hp gain just from installing a windage tray.
440 or 318 the laws of physics stay the same. even if its only a 5hp increase, i wouldn't run an engine without one. its free hp.

Edited by 1960fury 2014-04-06 5:41 PM
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60 dart
Posted 2014-04-06 7:07 PM (#434813 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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yes as the oil is slung by the rotating mass , it airates , ( foams ) . installing helps stop the airation of oil around the rotating mass (= drag) . stop the drag = ( HP ) . you will gain HP but you aint
feedin HP for free and aint none of the 318's owned here gonna be doin 6500 rpm , including my stroker . where is one going to find a windage tray setup for a poly of any size , one aint . they have
to be custom made , studs , caps . windage trays won't fit a stock poly motor without custom parts . a windage tray in a grocery getter is absurd ------------------------------------------------------later
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1960fury
Posted 2014-04-06 7:49 PM (#434820 - in reply to #434813)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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60 dart - 2014-04-06 7:07 PM
yes as the oil is slung by the rotating mass , it airates , ( foams ) . installing helps stop the airation of oil around the rotating mass (= drag) . stop the drag = ( HP ) .



no, you still did not understand. again, oil becomes rotating mass at higher engine speeds. its rotated by the crank. moving weight requires power. sure there is drag, but its mostly about rotating mass. a windage tray does reduce rotating mass. very simple.


60 dart - 2014-04-06 7:07 PM you will gain HP but you aint feedin HP for free


??? you are not "feeding" hp. its just like a viscous fan. its FREE hp. weight that is not there does not need any power (fuel) to be propelled. sounds logic, not? actually really not difficult to understand. look at it this way. lets say the oil vortex weights 5 pounds. lets assume it takes 5hp to accelerate 5 pounds to 4500 rpm (just guessing and depends on location of the weight) so if you remove 5 pounds with a windage tray, you gain 5 hp at 4500 rpm, absolutely free.
you can easily add a windage tray or crankshaft scraper in any engine without messing with the main caps if you know what you are doing. absurd? its absurd to waste fuel and power.


Edited by 1960fury 2014-04-06 8:05 PM
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FwdLk56
Posted 2014-04-06 8:17 PM (#434825 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy


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I think the most important take-away is that the windage tray is only beneficial at high rpm.
Since most of us only bring 'er up that high when we are "blowing out carbon", then why argue it

All "science" aside, I do know this, I don't need a high HP number just to blow out carbon, something I do when I am PARKED and not driving down the road trying to outrun a four-banger with a 6" exhaust.
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60 dart
Posted 2014-04-06 8:20 PM (#434828 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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sorry everyone for high jacking the thread -------------------------------------------------later
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1960fury
Posted 2014-04-06 8:29 PM (#434829 - in reply to #434825)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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FwdLk56 - 2014-04-06 8:17 PM

I think the most important take-away is that the windage tray is only beneficial at high rpm.


no, there is already windage at cruising speeds. lets say higher engine speeds.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2018-12-06 4:33 PM (#574797 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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I know I'm reviving a very dead thread, but this is actually the route I'm going for with my 1960 Plymouth Belvedere. 1966 318 Poly with older stock 4 barrel intake, 500 cfm Edelbrock carb. Might go for throttle body injection at some point, but not for now. Stock dual exhaust, currently have a A-833 OD 4 speed in it with the stock 3.31 gears. I don't have a working speedo or odometer, but I drove it three times to work last summer, or 150.6 miles. Refill took not quite 8 gallons, so close to 19 mph as-is (my average speed during my commute as computed by my 2018 Ford F150's computer is 32.5 mph). In the spring, I'm hoping to install my rebuilt AX15 5 speed manual from a late 1990s Dodge Dakota along with 2.94 gears. This combo will give me the following final gear ratios:

1st - 11.26
2nd - 6.85
3rd - 4.23
4th - 2.94
5th - 2.32

When I was in college, I had a 1982 Cordoba with a 318 LA in it, stock gear ratio was 2.45 with 904 TF trans. I could squeeze 28 mpg out of that car on a pure freeway trip, 75 mph for 200 miles or more. Hope to creep into the mid to high 20s with the Plymouth on similar trips.

Edited by jboymechanic 2018-12-06 4:37 PM
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1961plymouthfury
Posted 2018-12-11 3:15 AM (#575040 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: RE: 318 Fuel Economy



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I got 23.1 on my previous '61 fury on a 230 mystery cruise . I filled the car up with 93 octane and it stayed at the full mark but when it was half full I filled it back up again .
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westwoodblue
Posted 2018-12-11 11:14 PM (#575096 - in reply to #434296)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy


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Glad someone brought this thread up because I've been thinking about this lately

Has anyone had any benefit going from 14 to 15 rims on mileage? Definitely not a massive difference but I am hoping for 1-2 mpg.
What are some other mods someone could make to a daily driver (ie not ripping apart and doing a complete rebuild) that would be
good enough to gain 6-8 mpg? In a factory 361, would a taller gear (thinking 2.77) be better for mpg, or should I leave it alone?
I don't have a tach but the motor just sounds like it's turning faster than it should at 50-60, is 3000-3500 about normal?

Has anyone tried/or remember the Fish brand carburetors? I have heard a lot about them, originally made in the 40s-50s and
then a second run in the 80s. Not to be mistaken for the 200mpg Pogue rumor mill, seems they were popular with racers.
I am curious if anyone here has tried them and if they were as good as they say. Easier cold starts, better performance,
and good for 2-3 mpg. They made about 3-4 models of them over the years. It won't do miracles but my idea is to have
enough little changes that I can get a reasonable 20-22 on long drives
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-12-16 11:30 AM (#575324 - in reply to #575096)
Subject: Re: 318 Fuel Economy



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The biggest improvement you can make to your fuel economy is to reduce the rpms. Rather than swapping wheels, just change the gear ratio. But yes, 3-3.5K rpm is pretty high at 55mph. Put in 2.76 gears if you have an automatic. 2.94 are about as high as you can go with a manual trans, but depends on your motor low end torque and wheel size. For comparison, the 340 motor in my barracuda averaged around 15mpg with 3.23 gears. I swapped to 2.76 and got 19mpg. That's a big improvement just from a gear swap.
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