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Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips
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jeffaary
Posted 2014-04-25 12:28 PM (#437786)
Subject: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips


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I'm curious about how hard it would be to turn the front of a 1957/58 Firesweep into a Fireflite. Is it just a matter of bolting on the fenders/bumper/header panel, or is there more to it? Can you turn a 1958 Dodge into a 1957 DeSoto by just turning wrenches?
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GregCon
Posted 2014-04-25 12:29 PM (#437787 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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you'd have to add 4" to the frame, one supposes.
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JT Vincent
Posted 2014-04-25 2:15 PM (#437806 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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Some things are super-simple, this one isn't. For 57-59-- Dodge, Plymouth and DeSoto Firesweeps can share front sheet metal. But Fireflites share their frame with senior Chryslers and the distance between the front wheel and door is 4 inches longer. The Firesweep fenders in question are basically modified Dodge items. To make the dog leg area longer, you'd have to graft it to a long wheelbase fender. A lot of work.

You can't really turn a 58 Dodge into a 57 DeSoto Firesweep (122 wheel base) without changing the roof (Dodge borrowed Plymouth's roof) and the quarters are fairly different-- the Dodge having the fin isolated by seams and trim, and the tail lights are totally different.

If you want a Frankenstein (I think they can be cool) you can put a 57-9 Firesweep clip and bumpers on a 57-59 Dodge. When this is done with Plymouth bodies and Dodge front clips (as with exports), they are sometimes called "Plodges" although I prefer the name 'Drymouth."



Edited by JT Vincent 2014-04-25 2:22 PM




(Plodges.jpg)



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Swept57
Posted 2014-04-25 2:50 PM (#437812 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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Aren't the Fireflites wider than the Firesweeps?
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firedome
Posted 2014-04-25 2:56 PM (#437813 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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I believe not.
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JT Vincent
Posted 2014-04-25 2:59 PM (#437814 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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No. Width doesn't vary from 1957-59 on Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler. Imperials are different in almost every way except drive line.
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jeffaary
Posted 2014-04-25 3:28 PM (#437830 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips


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I may have confused the issue. I'm only interested in swapping front clips, not a total conversion (roof, etc). And more specifically, I'm interested in wagons. Could you just bolt a '57 Fireflite wagon's fenders/bumper/header panel onto a 58 Sierra wagon, for example?
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imopar380
Posted 2014-04-25 4:04 PM (#437837 - in reply to #437830)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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jeffaary - 2014-04-25 12:28 PM

I may have confused the issue. I'm only interested in swapping front clips, not a total conversion (roof, etc). And more specifically, I'm interested in wagons. Could you just bolt a '57 Fireflite wagon's fenders/bumper/header panel onto a 58 Sierra wagon, for example?


No, you cannot. The Fireflite frame is 4 inches longer at the front than the Dodge frame, and the Fireflite fenders are 4 inches longer than the Dodge fenders. You cannot make the swap. The Fireflite wheelbase is 126 inches, whereas the Dodge WB is 122 inches, and all the extra 4" is ahead of the cowl, which means the front wheels sit four inches further ahead on the Fireflite compared to the Dodge.
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jeffaary
Posted 2014-04-25 4:14 PM (#437838 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips


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That explains why a Fireflite wagon looks sleeker than a Sierra...

So what is the overall length of a 1957/58 Fireflite or Chrysler New Yorker wagon?

Thank you all for your help/info.
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JT Vincent
Posted 2014-04-25 4:17 PM (#437839 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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OK, yeah the clip in that case (Fireflite) would be too long to fit on the Dodge. 4 inches too long. Side note: the clips on the cars in question are assemblies comprised of 2 outer fenders, 2 inner fenders, a radiator yoke and assorted sheet metal valences that correspond with the bumper arrangement, and the trim/grille. The hood is separate from the clip and bolts directly to the body shell. There is no header panel, per se. FL clips can come off easily as a unit and this often the best way to remove/replace them.
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FIN ME
Posted 2014-04-25 6:43 PM (#437855 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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Not sure if this is helpful, but for the 1957 DeSoto station wagons:

- the wheelbase for the Fireflite station wagon is 126 inches
- the wheelbase for the Firesweep station wagon is 122 inches

- the overall length of the Firelfite station wagon is 219.5 inches
- the overall length of the Firesweep station wagon is 217.3 inches

- the over all width for each is 78.2 inches

- the over all height for the Fireflite station wagon is 57.6 inches
- the over all height for the Firesweep station wagon is 57.2 inches

- the front tread for the Fireflite station wagon is 61 inches
- the front tread for the Firesweep station wagon is 60.9 inches

- the rear tread for the Fireflite station wagon is 59.7 inches
- the rear tread for the Firesweep station wagon is 59.7 inches


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GregCon
Posted 2014-04-25 7:07 PM (#437861 - in reply to #437855)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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I think it would be great to swap a Firesweep front end onto a Fireflite. When people saw that 4" gap they would freak out and probably say, 'What the...?!?!?!'

Go for it.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-04-25 10:24 PM (#437890 - in reply to #437861)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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I am thinking 58 Oldsmobile front clip fitted to a 60 New Yorker wagon. Huatchoo think ?
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jeffaary
Posted 2014-04-26 12:32 AM (#437906 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips


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Thank you for the dimensional info!
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mikes2nd
Posted 2016-09-28 12:36 PM (#522258 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips


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I am thinking about having an alternate front end on my New Yorker.

How about putting a 57 300 front end on a 57 New Yorker?

Its a straight fit right? I thought there was a slight difference.

Simply swap it out? Put the hood, grill on it? swap it back when I want to go back?

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finsruskw
Posted 2016-09-28 5:09 PM (#522276 - in reply to #522258)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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A few differences between the 2 clips, Mike. You probably know this already
Hood mainly, and the special support bar, 300 items only.
Then you have to have the lower fender panels, again, 300 only.
NY'er lower fenders could be modified to accept those though
But then again, IF you have a COMLETE 300 front clip, should bolt on w/no problem.
But then again, why not just buy a reall 300??!!
Here are a few ideas to choose from!
At the 300 Club meet in WI last weekend
27 Letters were there. All years represented but for 300D and Hurst


Edited by finsruskw 2016-09-28 5:20 PM




(DSCN3899.jpg)



(DSCN3898.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2016-09-28 5:28 PM (#522277 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips


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Why not enjoy both?

A new Yorker and a 300? Just change the hood and grills out...

Its a minor change. It will be a new Yorker at heart though. I think I know where a damaged 300 hood is for a donor. Gonna take a ton of work though. Heck I will probably have to make a lot of the pieces.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-09-29 5:21 PM (#522339 - in reply to #522277)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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How about a plymouth front end on a firesweep?

The New Yorker to 300 swap has been done before. But why would you want to do it? The New Yorker front is so much better. I would rather swap the 300 to a New Yorker front.

Edit: But if you do decide to make the swap, I want your New Yorker front end!

Edited by Powerflite 2016-09-29 5:30 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-09-29 5:27 PM (#522340 - in reply to #522339)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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Oh, and jeffaary, if you are serious about doing this swap, I have a big body frame that you could use if you aren't too far away. It is from a sedan though, so I'm not sure what the differences are between the sedan and wagon.
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Chrycoman
Posted 2016-09-30 2:03 AM (#522356 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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Yes, you can put a Plymouth front clip on a Firesweep. The Dodge/Firesweep models are on a 122" wheelbase while the Plymouth is on a 118" wheelbase, but that 4" difference is in the rear seat floor.

Besides, Chrysler put Firesweep clips on Plymouths to get the DeSoto Diplomat (a Plysoto). So you can do the reverse to get a DeSmouth.

From 1957 to 1959 Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler shared the same basic body. The Plymouth body was extended 4" for the Dodge, DeSoto, and Chrysler. All wagons used the same body, which is why the Plymouth wagons were on a 122" wheelbase. Front clips from the 118" and 122" wheelbase models can be interchanged. There will be some differences in the way the front grille areas and bumpers attach. The 126" wheelbase models have the extra 4" ahead of the cowl placing the wheels 4" further forward as the frame is 4" longer.

Imperials used a completely different body which was used from 1957 to 1963, with a major restyling for 1964 that carried through to 1966.

Also, the 1960 and up bodies are different from the 1957-59 models and used unibody contstruction. However, you could interchange 1960-61 Plymouth, Dodge, Polara, DeSoto, Chrysler Windsor and 1961 Newport front clips. The Saratoga, New Yorker and 300F/G used a 4" longer clip giving a 126" wheelbase.

The one I would like to do is take a Canadian-built 1961 Plymouth Fury with its Plymouth instrument panel and Dart door panels and seats and replace the front clip with a 1961 Dart unit. Put Viscount or Mayfair series nameplates on it and will have a one of none 1961 Plodge. Compared to the production 1961 Plymouths and Darts it would look pretty tame. Or bland. We have seen what a Plymouth front clip will do to a 1961 Polara.

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mikes2nd
Posted 2016-09-30 7:44 AM (#522368 - in reply to #522339)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips


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Powerflite - 2016-09-29 5:21 PM How about a plymouth front end on a firesweep? The New Yorker to 300 swap has been done before. But why would you want to do it? The New Yorker front is so much better. I would rather swap the 300 to a New Yorker front. Edit: But if you do decide to make the swap, I want your New Yorker front end!

I want to keep both front ends.

I can swap them back and forth... maybe one season i want to run a new yorker, the next year the 300... 

 

New yorker front ends are alot easier to come by than a 300 though.

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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-02-19 10:18 PM (#578420 - in reply to #437837)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips


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back to front end swapping...

My "57" Regal Royal will have 3 front ends... 57, 58 and 59... Im stupid I know but I want 3 cars without owning 3 cars

 

I had the 57 done... 58 regal lancer trim waiting for another donor car i had... and i was slowly gathering 59 parts...

Some 59 front end parts showed up cheap so i grabbed them... 



Edited by mikes2nd 2019-02-19 10:20 PM




(59WillowWhite2.jpg)



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drosera88
Posted 2019-02-21 8:23 PM (#578489 - in reply to #578420)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips



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mikes2nd - 2019-02-19 9:18 PM

back to front end swapping...

My "57" Regal Royal will have 3 front ends... 57, 58 and 59... Im stupid I know but I want 3 cars without owning 3 cars

 

I had the 57 done... 58 regal lancer trim waiting for another donor car i had... and i was slowly gathering 59 parts...

Some 59 front end parts showed up cheap so i grabbed them... 

Did you ever consider making a 59 Regal Lancer that looked more like the unbuilt concept for the actual 59 Regal Lancer? 

 





(1959-dodge-custom-royal-regal-lancer-prototype_28500423 (1).jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-02-21 11:19 PM (#578493 - in reply to #437786)
Subject: Re: Question About Swapping 1957-58 Front Clips


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Ive seen that and yeah I would love to make that, but that would require a full car.

Since the trim is straight it wouldn't be insane, but I am working with a 57 car as a base vehicle.


Hah dont give me anymore ideas it is great looking. I have only seen that picture so I dont know where the "Regal Lancer" emblem is...



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