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Captive-Air Tires
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2014-12-01 9:34 AM (#463282)
Subject: Captive-Air Tires



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Posts: 1071
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Location: Wild Wonderful		I was just wondering if anyone use to have these tires on their cars, or might still have one. How rare are they?
Has everyone/anyone seen one "in person"?
I know that Tom McCahill test drove a 1959 Dodge Custom Royal with these tires on it. He described them as being "heavy".



(ca59.jpg)



(cap59.jpg)



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PlymouthFury
Posted 2014-12-01 10:11 AM (#463287 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Expert

Posts: 1323
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Location: Hickory, NC		I've always been interested I these tires. There's a section in the 60 Plymouth manual describing how to inflate them. Shoving a needle into the sidewall seemed a bit odd. I've never seen one in person. I can't imagine very many people bought them as I'm sure they were pricey. Wonder how long they were made?
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58coronet
Posted 2014-12-01 8:39 PM (#463325 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires


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These were fairly common on Chrysler 300s in the late 50s to early 60s. I have seen them on 300s years ago, and they were made in Goodyear's Blue Streak line of high speed tires of the day, as well. They had a blue dot on the outer sidewall where the needle valve was inserted to inflate the outer chamber.
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2014-12-02 12:44 AM (#463339 - in reply to #463325)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1071
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Location: Wild Wonderful		How pricey were they / are they?



(captiveair58.jpg)



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LD3 Greg
Posted 2014-12-02 2:09 AM (#463345 - in reply to #463325)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires


Expert

Posts: 1922
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Location: Ontario, Canada		They are listed in my 58 Chrysler literature separately and not as Blue Streaks.

I remember the blue dot as you describe. A point of inflation using a football/basketball needle! I remember driving on them and thinking they were horrible! I would have said that the ones I drove were Uniroyal, though. Seems to me that I replaced them Uniroyal Masters. Expensive tires in those days!!

BTW, I just had a set of new Bridgestone Runflat tires installed on the Sebring convert on a trial basis. You know, "state of the art for today". Way too hard and noisy! I had the dealer replace them.
Greg
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d500neil
Posted 2014-12-02 2:27 AM (#463351 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Location: bishop, ca		The captive air tires were known to be very heavy and generally un-responsive to sportive
handling.



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miquelonbrad
Posted 2014-12-03 10:42 AM (#463469 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Expert

Posts: 1735
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada		Some wagons came with them, because they didn't have room for a spare tire in the back...I think it was the wagons with the third seat...correct me if I'm wrong.
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58sportsuburban
Posted 2014-12-03 11:55 AM (#463475 - in reply to #463469)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 449
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Location: jersey		9 passenger wagons have the spare behind the passenger rear tire.
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2014-12-03 11:06 PM (#463536 - in reply to #463475)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1071
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Location: Wild Wonderful		Here is the rest of that first Ad. And others.



(captive59.jpg)



(captive58.jpg)



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imopar380
Posted 2014-12-03 11:30 PM (#463540 - in reply to #463536)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7147
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada		On an Imperial ...




(goodyearCaptiveAire Double Eagle.jpg)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2014-12-03 11:30 PM (#463541 - in reply to #463536)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1071
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Location: Wild Wonderful		Well, so far, what everyone has said makes sense.
The more expensive tires on the more expensive cars.
I can see why you would want these on a station wagon. No father wants to be changing a tire in the middle of taking his family across the states to Wally World.
And, you don't put these tires on a sport car.

Edited by 58DeSoDodge59 2014-12-04 10:46 AM
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imopar380
Posted 2014-12-03 11:34 PM (#463542 - in reply to #463541)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7147
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada		Another ad



(Goodyear.jpg)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2014-12-03 11:39 PM (#463544 - in reply to #463542)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1071
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Location: Wild Wonderful		It looks like these tires have been given different names over the years. From Blowout shields to Double Eagle.



(blowoutshields2.jpg)



(ca1962.jpg)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2014-12-08 9:16 PM (#464017 - in reply to #463544)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1071
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Location: Wild Wonderful		Guess what I found?
Yep, I found someone who had, not only one , but two of these tires. I bought both of them, but only one has the inner lining.



(c12.png)



(c24.png)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2014-12-08 9:38 PM (#464019 - in reply to #464017)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1071
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Location: Wild Wonderful		I removed the inner liner to see how this thing works. It is just a liner that tucks in between the tire and wheel. See pictures. I bet this was a nightmare for the tire mounting guys.



(innerair1.jpg)



(innerair2.jpg)



(innerair4.jpg)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2014-12-08 9:44 PM (#464021 - in reply to #464019)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1071
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Location: Wild Wonderful		The inner lining is called a Nylon, Life Guard , Blowout Shield.



(innerair8.jpg)



(innerair10.jpg)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2014-12-08 9:54 PM (#464025 - in reply to #464021)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1071
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Location: Wild Wonderful		I always thought that the button on the out side wall of the tire, inflated the inner section of the tire. Wrong. The valve on your wheel inflates
the inner section, then the button on the side wall will inflate the outer section.



(c24.png)



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soiouz
Posted 2014-12-08 10:27 PM (#464027 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: RE: Captive-Air Tires



Expert

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Location: Montreal, Canada		Wow, rare find!
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2014-12-09 1:27 AM (#464051 - in reply to #464025)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1071
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Location: Wild Wonderful		In order to mount this tire, I'm sure that you would have to put the tire on the wheel first, then put the inner section in the tire. Making sure it is wrapped around the lip/bead of the tire. Then seat the tire on the wheel by inflating the inner section. Or maybe you would inflate both sections a little bit at a time. What a pain in the butt. No wonder these things are not popular. A pain in the butt to mount. Heavy on the car, which makes bad performance, poor gas mileage. I wonder if the valve on the side wall ever leaked?



(c22.png)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2015-03-20 12:06 AM (#472936 - in reply to #464051)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1071
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Location: Wild Wonderful		I did not know that information on this tire is actually in the 58 Desoto Service Manual. I'm sure it is in other manuals also.
Here is the info on it.



(de1.jpg)



(ca1.jpg)



(ca2.jpg)



(ca3.jpg)



(ca4.jpg)



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NicksGarage
Posted 2020-01-16 7:16 PM (#593060 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA		Anyone know if cars that came with Captive Air tires came with a jack?
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NicksGarage
Posted 2020-01-17 1:49 PM (#593106 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



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Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA		January 1958 Popular Science. Says that all 1958 Chrysler wagons have Captive Air tires. Was that true?





(captiveair1958.jpg)



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GregCon
Posted 2020-01-18 10:35 AM (#593136 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Expert

Posts: 2524
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Location: Houston		Since the dawn of the pneumatic tire some 600 years ago, man has sought to rid himself of the evils of the very air he breathes, inside the tire, anyway. Soon, you will drive a rolling electric safety-pod that rides on airless tires.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/10/17/michelin-uptis-tires/?guccounter...
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-18 10:57 AM (#593137 - in reply to #593136)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		.
And

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rebel
Posted 2020-01-21 7:03 PM (#593292 - in reply to #593137)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires


Veteran

Posts: 293
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Location: Western Colorado		The Popular Science article was incorrect. My line card shows a spare tire. That's on a 58 New Yorker, 6 passenger wagon.
Perhaps the 8 passenger wagons did not have a spare??
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NicksGarage
Posted 2020-01-21 7:21 PM (#593293 - in reply to #593292)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



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Location: Ramona, CA
rebel - 2020-01-21 4:03 PM

The Popular Science article was incorrect. My line card shows a spare tire. That's on a 58 New Yorker, 6 passenger wagon.
Perhaps the 8 passenger wagons did not have a spare??


Is that the IBM card? Where is the spare listed? Trying to figure out why my '60 had 99 code for tires.
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rebel
Posted 2020-01-21 7:41 PM (#593296 - in reply to #593293)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires


Veteran

Posts: 293
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Location: Western Colorado		It was on the IBM card. If I remember correctly it was written on the card. I don't have the card available right now, but we had discussed it in a thread years ago. I'll see if I can find the thread and maybe a picture tomorrow.
Bob
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NicksGarage
Posted 2020-01-21 10:01 PM (#593300 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA		Here is my build card showing 99 for the tires. There are other codes for Captive-air whitewalls and regular blackwalls so I'm not sure what they ordered since I don't have any other documentation.





(buildcard_tires.jpg)



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NicksGarage
Posted 2020-02-01 10:24 PM (#593727 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



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Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA		Here is more Captive Air information I found from Kiplinger's in 1959.

https://books.google.com/books?id=iwAEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA4&dq=kiplinger'...

The original article in July 1959 is a tire guide and an interesting read in itself. In the August issue, they printed a correction because the first row of tires was under Goodrich. Also, this confirms that Captive Air tires were available in Blue Streaks and blackwalls. What sizes, I don't know.

The image below is a combination of pages from the two issues.





(captive_air_kiplingers_1959a.png)



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NicksGarage
Posted 2020-09-12 5:56 PM (#603137 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



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Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA		While doing some research online I found these interesting ads. One for a 1960 Fury Sonoramic convertible loaded with options including Captive-Air tires. And then a Valiant wagon ad also with Captive-air tires. And lastly a Jeep ad where they're trying to compete with Plymouth and Ford wagons and this "Maverick" Jeep wagon comes with Captive-Air tires.




(The_Sacramento_Bee_Fri__Apr_1__1960a_.jpg)



(Quad_City_Times_Fri__Jan_22__1960a_.jpg)



(Daily_News_Post_Mon__May_11__1959a_.jpg)



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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-10-13 12:03 PM (#615833 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



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Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA		I recently picked up this glove box manual for the Captive Air tires.





(CA_owners_01.jpg)



(CA_owners_02.jpg)



(CA_owners_03.jpg)



(CA_owners_04.jpg)



(CA_owners_05.jpg)



(CA_owners_06.jpg)



(CA_owners_07.jpg)



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58coupe
Posted 2021-10-14 11:32 AM (#615877 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



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Location: Alaska		These tires must not have worked well or we would still have them today.
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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-10-14 12:32 PM (#615878 - in reply to #615877)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



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Location: Ramona, CA
58coupe - 2021-10-14 8:32 AM

These tires must not have worked well or we would still have them today.


Like a lot of things, they were ahead of their time. They had them for almost 10 years but they cost more than regular tires and were heavy so they affected handling. New run-flat tires are still expensive and a lot of cars don't come with spares anymore, just a can of tire sealant and a compressor. I'm sure the percentage of people who deal with their own flat tires is pretty small these days.
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60 dart
Posted 2021-10-14 5:13 PM (#615889 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-10-14 6:09 PM (#615890 - in reply to #615889)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA
60 dart - 2021-10-14 2:13 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUzDgqmHBOc


Not the first time for a racing application. This is from 1965.




(The_Akron_Beacon_Journal_Wed__Apr_21__1965_1024.jpg)



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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-10-14 6:24 PM (#615891 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA		And when there's no man around...

https://youtu.be/KBezbhua3hI

From 1966. Interesting how they mention that it's a full tire inside, not just a shield. The honeycomb design was supposed to let the inner tire ride over whatever punctured the outer tire.



Edited by NicksGarage 2021-10-14 6:26 PM




(Orlando_Evening_Star_Mon__Oct_17__1966_1024.jpg)



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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-10-14 6:30 PM (#615892 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA		And here's an explosive one showing a 1962 Dodge driving over a land mine!

https://youtu.be/0seNSXwHLLw
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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-10-15 6:39 PM (#615914 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA		The comment about these "not working well or we'd still have them today" lead me down the rabbit hole of Goodyear run flat tire history in the newspaper archives.

The Goodyear Captive-Air tires were announced in 1955 and were sold into 1963. The inner shields started out as nylon belted but by 1959 were steel belted. It appears that production ended in 1962 as advertisements for sales in 1963 noted that.

In the summer of 1963, the new LifeGuard Safety Shield tires with the honeycomb inner shield tread came out. The honeycomb pattern allowed the inner shield to ride over whatever was puncturing the outer tire without damage. This new design also just used the one standard valve stem to fill instead two valves like on the Captive-Air and was said to be easier to mount. The smallest Double Eagle Lifeguard tire retailed for $70.45 in 1963 when regular whitewall tires started around $14.

It seems by 1969, the Goodyear LifeGuard Safety Shield tires were no longer being advertised. The Lifeguard name was previously used in the 1940s for a double tire tube that was semi self sealing and could be reused if punctured and patched. These just slowed down the flattening of the tire so not really meant to be driven on when flat.

In 1978 there are articles about new "Run-Flat" tires being developed as well as a lot of discussion about temporary spare tires even though temporary spares were used in the late 1960s and the early 1970s. Hardly a mention given of the earlier Captive-Air and LifeGuard tires. Goodyear's new Run-Flat tire had sidewalls twice as thick as regular tires. None of these seemed to catch on.

In 1985 there are articles about Goodyear and Pirelli developing a special wheel to make conventional tires have run-flat capabilities by keeping the tire bead seated when flat. But again, that didn't come to pass. Again, no mention of past efforts.

In 1993, Bridgestone came out with a run-flat tire that was used on the Calloway Corvette. The first true production car with modern run-flat tires was the 1994 Corvette which offered the Goodyear GS-C EMT (Extended Mobility Tire) as an option. Even then the articles state that they doubt the tires will catch on due to the price premium.

It appears that the problem has always come down to price and people nervous about not having a spare tire.


Edited by NicksGarage 2021-10-15 7:43 PM




(Rutland_Daily_Herald_Sat__Sep_7__1963_1024.jpg)



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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-10-15 7:50 PM (#615915 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA		This article talks about the new design Lifeguard tire. It mentions that it only uses one valve and that there were problems in nthe past with people driving around without the inner tire on Captive-Air versions inflated.




(The_Cincinnati_Enquirer_Sat__May_11__1963_1024.jpg)



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Attachments The_Cincinnati_Enquirer_Sat__May_11__1963_1024.jpg (234KB - 52 downloads)
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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-12-08 1:52 PM (#617468 - in reply to #463282)
Subject: Re: Captive-Air Tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1122
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Location: Ramona, CA		Captive-air valve kit found on ebay.





(valve_kit1.jpg)



(valve_kit2.jpg)



(valve_kit3.jpg)



(valve_kit4.jpg)



(valve_kit5.jpg)



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Attachments valve_kit5.jpg (167KB - 40 downloads)
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