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 Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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jaded13640 |
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Veteran Posts: 295   | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193  Location: Lower Mainland BC | jaded13640 - 2015-05-20 12:04 AM I see a kit on Moparmall that has the joint and the ball and trunion. My ball and trunion is fine. I just need the rear U-joint. I am in the same boat  This is what you found, right? http://www.moparmall.com/1603998-1752680-1752623-Universal-Joints-D...  I am hoping that they will sell just the "ear'd" Rear Cross U-joint.  | ||
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| jaded13640 |
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| Powerflite |
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| 60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Passed away 30th Sept 2024. You will be missed Chuck! Posts: 8954  Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | |||
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| mstrug |
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| jaded13640 |
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | |||
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| 57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3805 Location: NorCal | The 315G joint recommended doesn't have the tabs needed for a '57 but the 314G does. https://www.ebay.com/p/NOS-Genuine-Wesco-U-joint-D7225-Borg-Warner-1... Edited by 57chizler 2018-09-14 1:05 PM (U-joint.jpg) Attachments ----------------  U-joint.jpg (133KB - 291 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | jaded13640 - 2018-09-14 7:29 AM Can anyone look up the series of U-joint for the Surburban with the 325 poly v-8? Thanks, Wayne 57Chizler has already posted the PN via a photo but to confirm, it appears that the PN for a rear U-joint on a 57 Suburban should be a 1752 623 (see below). Note that in the second listing below, 1752 623 is made up of several components. Perhaps it will be possible to find those components easier that trying to find the complete assembly. Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-14 2:27 PM (1752623RearUniversalApplicationList.jpg) (1752623RearUniversalComponentList.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1752623RearUniversalApplicationList.jpg (238KB - 285 downloads) 1752623RearUniversalComponentList.jpg (196KB - 322 downloads) | ||
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| Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9911 Location: So. Cal | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 56D500boy - 2018-09-14 2:24 PM 57Chizler has already posted the PN via a photo but to confirm, it appears that the PN for a rear U-joint on a 57 Suburban should be a 1752 623 (see below). Note that in the second listing below, 1752 623 is made up of several components. Perhaps it will be possible to find those components easier that trying to find the complete assembly. My local Chryco NOS guy, Ron W. looked up the cross-overs for my 1643 172 56 Dodge D63 Rear U-joint and came up with this list: 947550, 1450249, 1643172 and 1752623. So if you find a source with more than one 1752 623, please let me (us) know.  | ||
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| local2Ed |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 586 | |||
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| Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9911 Location: So. Cal | |||
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| 60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Passed away 30th Sept 2024. You will be missed Chuck! Posts: 8954 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | |||
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| jaded13640 |
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Veteran Posts: 295 | |||
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| 57chizler |
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| Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9911 Location: So. Cal | |||
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| 57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3805 Location: NorCal | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | I am having trouble tracking down the equivalent 56 Dodge rear U-joint, 1635 099. I am starting to wonder why somebody hasn't figured out how to convert the OE U-joint to use a more common cross, perhaps by machining new attachment From this: To a modified version using one of these (probably the 1310 or 1330):  REFERENCE: http://www.driveshaftspecialist.com/HTML%20Measure/UJ%20ID%20Guide.... | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Sunday afternoon. What to do? What to do? I know!! Remove my driveshaft and investigate the front and rear U-joints. The grease in the front ball and trunion is like thick molasses/thin tar. It's coming out. Here is the diagram of the rear U-joint. I am going to take some measurements and see if I can be matched up to a 1310 or 1330 (plus new caps ??) (56_57DodgeAndOthersStyleRearUJoint.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 56_57DodgeAndOthersStyleRearUJoint.jpg (96KB - 331 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 56D500boy - 2018-09-16 6:35 PM I am going to take some measurements and see if I can be matched up to a 1310 or 1330 (plus new caps ??) Based on what I measured I would say my 1643 172 rear U-joint is very similar to a 1310 (not withstanding the cap issues): "1310 U-Joint Series is the most common U-Joint ever used. It is still used on OE applications. 1.062 cap and 3.219 width. (1 1/16 x 3 1/4 close)" REFERENCE: http://www.driveshaftspecialist.com/HTML%20Measure/UJ%20ID%20Guide.... I forgot to measure the cap diameter(s). Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-17 12:44 AM (56DodgeD500RearU_Joint_2_Annotated.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 56DodgeD500RearU_Joint_2_Annotated.jpg (226KB - 283 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Or maybe, as some one else has suggested, the rear is based on a 7260 "small Dodge" U-joint: "7260 is 2.125 Inside Lock and 1.078 cap. 7260 is referred to as the "small Dodge" joint. It is similar in size to the 1310 but the locks are on the inside. This U-Joint series was used extensively up to 1980's in cars and trucks. The 7260 was even used in Dodge Dually trucks."  REFERENCE: http://www.driveshaftspecialist.com/HTML%20Measure/UJ%20ID%20Guide.... | ||
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| Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9911 Location: So. Cal | It may take you a while, but you get there eventually.  Yes, chizler just stated that the 7260 joint will interchange with the odd-ball caps.... | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2018-09-17 12:01 AM It may take you a while, but you get there eventually. Yes, chizler just stated that the 7260 joint will interchange with the odd-ball caps....Thanks for the slap upside the head. I read 57Chizler's comments before but I got confused about which rear diff he was talking about and what a 315G was *NOW* I get it. 57chizler - 2018-09-15 11:30 AM local2Ed - 2018-09-14 7:29 PM Can a 315g u-joint be used with the normal straps? On my 1957 Sierra, I looked at the rear joint but did not take measurements, and by eye it looked like a 315g with the normal straps would work. I would be surprised if it was that easy. I recently did a complete rear end swap in my '57 Sierra using a later C-body rear and had a chance to compare the two since the new rear uses the 7260 (315G) joint. No chance for an interchange but, in my case, I found the dimensions of the cross shaft to be identical so I merely swapped the end caps. As mentioned above, since the available correct joints are insanely priced, swapping the yokes is the most practical way to go. OFF to a local parts store tomorrow to track down a 7260 like this Dana (or Neapco NEW - DISTRIBUTED BY PDQ / NEAPCO / BRUTE FORCE): 5-788X Dana Spicer U Joint Detroit 7260/1310   Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-17 11:05 AM | ||
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| 60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Passed away 30th Sept 2024. You will be missed Chuck! Posts: 8954 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 60 dart - 2018-09-17 2:25 PM yes , thats how ya know for sure what works and what won't ------------------------------------------later Where's that guy (or guys) that said a 315G was an easy swap "just swap the earred caps onto the new U-joint"??? - WELL, IT ISN"T that easy (why did I think it would be?) - That is, unless I am missing something or I am very stupid. There is a chance of one or the other but NOT both The Moog 315G looks like it should work. The end caps are about the same diameter (1.080") as the OE caps (as near as I can measure with my Vernier caliper). The distance across the caps is a bit larger than the OE drive shaft yoke but that would probably work out with the C-clips installed. The biggest and fatal issue is the diameter of the U-joint shaft. The OE shaft is about 0.579". The Moog 315G is pretty much 0.65". Therefore, the OE earred caps will not fit on the Moog 315G shaft which was going to be the winner solution (if worked). So....FAIL. Unless I am missing something, the only way to make a Moog 315G work would be to have new earred end caps designed and machined. And that won't be cheap. Some photos: Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-17 9:01 PM (Moog315GComparedToOE56Dodge1643172.jpg) (OE1643172WithEarredEndCapsOff.jpg) (Moog315WithEndCapOff.jpg) (Moog315GEndCapComparedToOE1643172EarredEndCap.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Moog315GComparedToOE56Dodge1643172.jpg (180KB - 312 downloads) OE1643172WithEarredEndCapsOff.jpg (150KB - 302 downloads) Moog315WithEndCapOff.jpg (148KB - 314 downloads) Moog315GEndCapComparedToOE1643172EarredEndCap.jpg (110KB - 325 downloads) | ||
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| Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9911 Location: So. Cal | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2018-09-17 7:21 PM You should measure the bearing diameter on both of them too. If they are offset just right, it might work if you swap bearings as well, but it's a long shot. Nathan: I did measure and report the shaft and bearing diameters. The bearing diameters are very similar, e.g. 1.080". The shaft diameters of the OE 1643 172 and the Moog 315G are completely different (0.579" vs 0.65"). As a result, the OE earred caps will NOT fit on the Moog 315G and the Moog 315G caps would be too loose on the OE U-joint. Where are those guys that have done this swap? I need to hear the trick (maybe the 315G isn't the right one to use (??))  | ||
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| Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9911 Location: So. Cal | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2018-09-17 9:18 PM The bearings are the many little cylindrical rods that are packed inside the cap. Compare their diameters as well. Yes, I know that the little cylindrical rods are called needle bearings. One of my first automotive mechanical experiences was in the mid-1960's when I was about 13 (about 54 years ago) and my father tasked me with cleaning and repacking the bearings on the the front trunion bearings on his then 1955 Dodge Regent (later mine when I turned 16). It was instilled on me that there would be hell to pay if I lost any of the needle bearings in the process. I did not lose any. That was in my mind today when I was handling the two U-joints and their respective needle bearing-filled caps. The thing is the difference in the U-joint shaft diameters is massive. I would want somebody with a BTDT to tell me that that is the 100% way to go before I start pulling needle bearings out of the two U-joint caps and swapping them. I am waiting to hear from these "Cap Swappers". | ||
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| 57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3805 Location: NorCal | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 57chizler - 2018-09-18 12:41 PM This is the caveat with cap swapping, any aftermarket maker is free to chose the cross shaft diameter as long as the cap diameter and width dimensions remain the same as the original. In my case, I was lucky because both of my u-joints were original Detroit. Thanks, John. I see now the issue, i.e. if one uses a "normal" Detroit brand cross-type U-joint of the same vintage as the OE capped/earred U-joint, the shaft diameter could be (or was in your case) the same. Therefore, you were able so swap the caps (and the needle bearings) and make it work. Very lucky (for you). No so for me. Any chance you kept the PN of the cross-type Detroit joint so I can try to track one down on the interweb? In the meantime, I have made an attempt at re-packing my existing U-joints (front and rear) and I have painted my driveshaft (Tremclad semi-gloss black rust paint) so I have made some (minor) improvements to my car and made it a bit better than it was on Sunday AM. | ||
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| DepsilonD |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 792 Location: Buena Park, CA | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | DepsilonD - 2018-09-18 5:23 PM Dave F. If you set up some ebay searches (for the conversions below) they do get posted for reasonable prices (I bought one for $19.00), I have also had luck cold calling driveline shops (found one for $80). Here are the cross references: BW: 114-265, A.E.C.: AE-265, Alloy: J72625-2, Lempco: U447, Neapco: 285700G, Pilot: 17228, Precision: 314G, Republic: CB-72625-2, Spicer: 5-1304X, TRW: 20029 Mopar: 1643172, 1752623, 1540249, 947550, 1450249, D-132 Thanks Dave N. I had five of the Mopar numbers, they all supersede to 1752 623. I didn't have the other ones but I think my NOS guy does. I contacted Mopar Mall today about their U-joint kits (front and rear for the 1957 Dodges, etc). The rear U-joint in the kit is a 1752 623 and he has three left. *HE* will NOT break the set up. The front part of the kit is a 1643 287 which is for the "P29 Fury, D63, S23, C71, All" so the parts would be useful. I will check these "new" numbers with my NOS guy to see if he has anything. Otherwise I will keep checking eBay using your info and hoping. OR... Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-18 9:12 PM | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Dave N (Depsilon D): I checked all of the numbers at the Collectors Auto site and NONE of them show up there. Back to eBay I guess. Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-18 8:42 PM | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10193 Location: Lower Mainland BC | This came from a well-known but nameless (for now) supplier. I know NOS things can be less than clean but this is rusty, broken and rough (when the bearing caps are moved it fells chunky) Live and learn. I am not going to live long enough to get it all figured. (NOS1450249RearUJointBoxOct5_2018_closed.jpg) (NOS1450249RearUJointBoxOct5_2018_open.jpg) Attachments ---------------- NOS1450249RearUJointBoxOct5_2018_closed.jpg (121KB - 291 downloads) NOS1450249RearUJointBoxOct5_2018_open.jpg (145KB - 297 downloads) | ||
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| jaded13640 |
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Veteran Posts: 295 | |||
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