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| 1960 plymouth stripped to bare metal, i ran into snag, my orig painter is too busy right now to take my car in, no room, and has pushed me back to august, i searched craigs list just for kicks , as a back up and found 2 people, one sent me a quot from my pictures only, of 5 grand, the other guy came over and we talked, he seemed to know his s**t, he gave me a price of 3500, to do it in black, my concern is he thinks he needs the car from 45 to 60 days to do body work/paint, right now he says he has nothing else to paint , does 45 to 60 days seem normal, is this a red flag iv commited to nothing, but am concerned im asking around right now trying to find out what this guys story is 45 to 60 days to paint a car from steel?????? |
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Location: So. Cal | As long as there isn't a lot of body work, it sounds like he isn't planning to work on it full time. Maybe as a side job sort-of thing. |
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| that's my concern, I sent him an email, for an explanation on why he needs 45 to 60 days, this could be a score or a nightmare its my baby |
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Location: Perth Australia | Really, its a peice of string question
It comes down to what your expectations are and what reality will be
Black is the hardest colour to paint because it will show the slightest imperfection very well
As said above, it comes down to the bodywork required, If you dont expect perfect panel and paint and there are no glaring dents or rust holes and all you want is it basically painted, then 2 or 3 days max
If you want a rolling mirror (what a perfectly straight black car is), it could take months (and thousands of dollars)
$3500 sounds cheap to me (you will get what you pay for)
If I was to paint a car black (might yet, still havnt decided with my plymouth), I would prime it and then paint it black, then see how wavy it is and then get into trying to get the waves out
A black car has to be "file finished" takes forever, but looks awesome
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| <p>thanks, what a mess iv made, cant sleep, im ganna pass on this guy, stinks, smells like do do, could be scam, I talked to this guy for a couple hours tonight , he almost had me convinced , but my gut says no, 3500 is I feel a good price,</p>
Edited by 196061SAVOY 2015-07-02 1:01 AM
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | Being I was a collision repair tech 26+ years , I will present my thoughts. A skilled staff/person to paint a car all over not including jambs is a 1 week deal, pending on body condition. If there is rot, dents dings and so on depends on the severity of the before mentioned.
When you said $3500-5000 for a paint job, I myself would be very leery. Good material will cost you on average $2500-3200 to do a car. Last time I bought a gallon of clear it was $450 a gal activator was close to $200 a quart reducer was $85 a gal. A quart of base color will range between $110 a quart and up. then you have epoxies and primers and sealers fillers sandpaper and on and on.
If the car is just a outer paint 1 week No buffing. sanding and buffing could be up to a week and $1000+ also. To do jambs, under hood trunk a week. Consider the whole job at least 3 weeks + If the person you had do your stuff in the past did good work, WAIT for him. If its about the $$$ and your a tightwad, do it yourself or go to macco |
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| <p>not a tightwad, just don't like getting ripped off, as most do, 3500 for a paint job on a clean metal body is a fair price, all the money, I would never pay above that, I mean its just paint sanding, min wage work right im not paying some guys boat payment , gambling habit drug or a**hole habit to paint my car its grunt work, ill be fine, thanks for your knowledge</p>
Edited by 196061SAVOY 2015-07-02 7:04 AM
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Location: Perth Australia | Why dont you do it yourself?
Theres about 1000 u tube videos on how to do it, but basically, prime the car in an etch primer (dont matter what colour), if you want it really straight then put a medium grade paper on a body file (long board about 1 foot long) and start sanding in line with the car mostly, but across the car as well, where the metal comes through fast are high spots and where it doesnt touch the paint are low spots
If the low spots are not to deep, you can just give it a fine layer of filler
Obviously bad high or low spots and rust need to be repaired, but take them as they come
Do your fixes, re prime then spray high fill primer on the car, this will take out very minor low spots and scratches, spray some other colour primer or paint (dont matter and just a dusting) sand the whole car down with 400 on a block until you get rid of all the second paint, if you sand through the high fill, just give it more primer and sand that
when you have finished that the car should be smooth and quite shiny, then comes your top coat, this is proof of the pudding time, but is also the most rewarding
Depending on your paint choice will determine wether you need to clear coat or not (enamel paint will be high gloss out of the gun, acrylic is not so shiny and clear coat brings it out
If you get a metallic paint, dont sand the top coat, just clear over it and then you can sand it
Make sure you use a wax and grease remover before you paint anything and between each paint stage (very important, paint wont stick to dirt or oil including the oil from your skin)
I am not a panel beater or spray painter and other will have a differing method, but thats how I do it
I have left a lot out, but this should give you an idea if you want to have a go
Depending on how much you want or have to do, you will be doing this for a month or more of weekends
5 grand here would get the car driver quality painted (that means it will have waves), 10 to 15 grand would get it fairly high end, but I still think you should re consider your colour choice
If you do it yourself, you wont get a show quality paint job for the simple reason you dont have the equipment or the training and experience the pros have, but if your realistic with your expectations, you will be pleased with your hard work and (of coarse) you get the bragging rights to say "I did it"
I think (never added it up) I used about $1500 in paint and materials on the dodge and that was paint everything, not just the outside panels
If you really think its beyond you, then get it into a shop, but unless you have an open wallet, be realistic when you get the car back (will take some time as resto work is not as profitable as insurance work and will always take a back seat), but you should be able to be confident that the preparation and paint has been done properly
Painting a car is a major job and some delay should be expected
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Location: Connecticut | When it comes to painting cars, you get what you pay for. If you're expecting show quality paint for 3500, you're smoking crack. At that price, you'll get the equivalent of Maaco's cheapest paint job. If you want any kind of panel straightening, rust repair, panel alignment, etc. you have to pay for it, since it's time and materials. And nobody works for free. To get a decent, presentable paint job including body work, expect to spend three times that much where you live. And if you're going to rush the guy or tell him you need it back in two weeks, he will likely tell you to go elsewhere. When I have a car painted, I allow 3 or 4 months so the body guy doesn't feel rushed and cut corners. BTW, if your car is presently stripped to bare metal, it is rusting away in the humid air that we experience here in the northeast. So that may not have been the best idea. Ron |
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Location: Ponder, TX | I had a reputable restoration shop do the body work and paint a '64 Valiant convertible. They estimated six months, but it took 13 months. There was no major body work to do except for patch panels behind the rear wheels. The time issue was frustrating, but understandable. Besides restorations, he also did insurance repairs and they had priority as he needed the cash flow. The body work was perfect and the paint was beautiful, but it wasn't cheap. That part of the bill was something over $7,000, which was his original estimate. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | What ever happened to lacquer paints at $80 a gallon ? 
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Location: Branson, MO | Just my 2 cents worth. About four years ago, I had a white '67 Plymouth Satellite I needed painted for a show/driver. I got an estimate from a body guy I knew which was $3500.00 for just a standard color factory type paint job - no base coat/clear coat. The car had no rust but did have some minor dents. I took it upon myself to do the body work, then took it to Maaco stripped down to just the body, and took advantage of their half-price special that cost me about $500.00.
When I got it back in about three days, I assembled the car, took it to an annual all MoPar show, got 3rd place, and the paint was judged a 9 out of 10. I'd say that wasn't too bad - would you? Basically it's mostly the prep that makes the difference. I'll try sending some pics a little later.
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | Exactly. Waiting for some guy to do a profitable job on your body work in 14 months and lose half the parts in his shop is never a good idea anyway. Just do all the heavy prime, sanding, guide coats, sanding, etc. yourself and take it in, ready to be sprayed, by a paint only place. Get it done in 2-3 days and pay for the quality & type of paint that you want. It really is the best way to get it done if you are willing to do it. If you really can't do the work because you need help, I have seen people hire out body guys to come to their own garage and work with them. Pay them by the hour. You are much more likely to be happy with the results and time. |
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| <p>I got it, thanks to all for all your knowledge , even ronbo97</p>
Edited by 196061SAVOY 2015-07-02 6:10 PM
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Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | If you live in an urban area like me, there are little shops with paint masters in them, and it wont cost $3,500. While we are knocking Maaco, there are 2 Maaco shops I've used in the past-- i did the prep and the jambs, and these shops put out perfect single-stage enamel like the factory did. They do it every day, they are skilled in their own way. If you want a crazy deep colorful show car, taken apart at the base and reassembled, it's going to cost you, but it's not a "restoration,"paint job, because our cars were originally painted in 20 minutes at Highland Park and associated plants-- without clear coating or wet-sanding. I think clear coat looks odd on an antique car. If you want a nice driver to look original, you can still get a good paint job for $1.5-3K. Maybe less if you know someone's uncle, and you know how to wet-sand. Chrome on the other hand, i don't think will ever be affordable again until they perfect some new technology. Oh, plus a good shop can paint your car in a week if you do the prep and disassemble-reassemble stuff with the trim and so forth. The actual spraying on of paint is a fairly short process.
Edited by JT Vincent 2015-07-03 3:50 AM
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| thank you jt Vincent, some common sense, some pay 10 grand for a 3500 paint job, others pay 1500 to 3500 for a 10 grand paint job, same thing, I might just dump it of at macco, and tell the manager/owner I want a 2500 dollar paint job to look like I paid 10 grand, and if the kids do a great job, ill give each kid 200 $ cash after its done , I wanna paint it but ill f**k it up, thanks again for all your knowledge |
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Location: Perth Australia | I have never heard of a place like these Macco shops
What a great idea
Hows it work, do they do final rubdown, mask up and shoot or just shooting the paint?
Really, that sounds like your answer if you think your bodywork is good enough
Really though, its the preparation that makes the paint
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Location: Branson, MO | ttotired:
Re: Maaco
As I previously posted above, Maaco has done a credible job for me, my friends, and family. Over the years we've had about 8 cars painted at Maaco some of which they did everything including the prep and the others we did the prep ourselves. The ones we did ourselves turned out better and all of them were done for $500.00 or less as we took advantage of their half price specials.
As for their prep work for these paint specials they do nothing but mask, surface sand and wipe down with their prep chemicals, primer, and spray a standard color single stage paint. The paint has always turned out good but their job of masking could be better.
When I did my own prep, I took off every possible piece of trim I could remove, filled and wet sanded till I was satisfied, primed the bare metal areas and lightly wet sanded, and finally did my own masking. They did whatever they felt necessary after that and painted. The cars came out at least as good as a factory paint job (see my '67 Plymouth Satellite above).
Maaco is a national chain here in the states but not all facilities are equal. I found one close by that I am on a first name basis with the owner and I'm sure that helps.
Hope this helps.
Edited by Viper Guy 2015-07-03 9:17 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Painting a car is easy. There are a few tricks, but nothing a person can't learn
from a pro with a little tutorial and maybe watching it being done. Metallics are
much fussier than non-metallics.
The killer with any new paint work is the rust repair, body work, and prep. That
can take 100's of hours !!! And some MANY HUNDREDS of hours !!!
But if a guy does not have the equipment to paint (which really doesn't take that
much), but CAN do the rest, ... getting it all blocked out and masked and handing
it off for spraying should not be terribly expensive or take that long. I usually took
2 days of paint application (about 5 sprays to put in 1.5 to 2 gallons of material)
with a light wet sand between each spray. This allowed ample drying time between
each spray. This is old school using acrylic or nitrocellulose lacquer. I quit doing it
before all this fancy "stage" stuff came along. When the time comes to paint again,
I'll need to update my methods.
One thing I learned from the old hats was that wet sanding can fix almost any
screw up. We had a moth go "spread eagle" on the hood of a Buick once. What a
#@! mess ! Or so I thought .... the old hat said just let it croak and the paint to
dry. We wet sanded it out in the morning and you would never have known that
moth had ever crash landed on the hood.
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Location: So. Cal | Because I don't have a clean environment, a good place for it to cure, and the skills to do a great job - especially on the top, it is well worth the expense to let someone else spray it. People nailed it when they stated that the quality is mostly in the prep, so that is where you can really make a difference without headache, waiting endlessly, or spending gobs of money. It's really a win-win all around. And places like Maaco will spray whatever paint you are willing to pay for. |
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Location: Connecticut | So how do you assure that the primers that you use are compatable with the top coats that Maaco uses ? Yes, since it's time and materials, the big expense is in the prep work. Many hours of smoothing, guide coats, sanding, more sanding... If you have a perfectly straight car, or are happy with a few ripples down the sides, then take it to Maaco and roll the dice. Ron |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | This Maaco thing sounds like the answer
I can relate very well to what Doc said about the moth, also goes with runs
The worse thing you can do (I still tried) is to fix it while its wet, all you do is make it worse
Metallics just dont want to play ball, if something happens, you have to fix it first, then re coat because the metal flake makes a sort of outline
where the stuff up was
I was able to paint this car without a single run, but what I did have was a curious bug that wanted to see what this stuff was that I was putting on its landing strip and when I was doing the clear, the top on my spray gun dripped and I had a few 5 cent sized circles in the paint that sanded out without any evidence that anything happened
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | ever use or hear of a run cutter -------------------------------------------------later
aka , nib file
Edited by 60 dart 2015-07-04 4:28 AM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | Actually no 
I did find in the suggested stuff an air operated panel file, I have 2 manual ones and it doesnt take long until my arms feel like they want to fall off
I will be buying one of these sanders before I get into the plymouth
Cheers Chuck
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| <p>i took an early morning blast this fine 4th day of july , and ended up in the outback, micky Ds parking lot, got myself a nice hot coffee, as I left the place , I saw an old timer checking out my 1961 savoy ,never seen one before he said , during our conversation , I found out he has a 65 gto 4 speed 389 with trips , during our friendly talk , I asked about if he was going to the 4th of july big car show being held today , he said I don't like taking my gto to car shows, quote "I don't like people near my car", the subject of paint jobs came up, lol, he told me he paid 20 thousand usa dollars for his paint job, orig his estimate was 10 grand, but by the time the painter got through bending him over it cost him 20 grand, true story, not to beat a dead horse, but the old saying is still true today "a sucker is born everyday" and " a fool and his money never meet" the guy has never recovered from that pork over, I had to ,had to, tell him I PAID 3500 fro my 65 olds 442 paint job 'GTO eater' I tried to exsplain that the paint jobs that autobodys charge are the biggest rip offs going, the guy was still mubbling to himself, about how he got screwed over as he left, 20 GRAND , TRUE STORY</p>
Edited by 196061SAVOY 2015-07-04 7:00 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | 20 grand is a lot, but without a close up look at the car, I wouldnt be so sure he was screwed
I wouldnt pay that much, but it also (as said above) comes down to what was involved in that "paint job"
Paint job may have involved a lot of rust and panel repairs (as the price doubled, perhaps the floor was found to be gone and replaced) and a fastidious owner (sounds like he could be?)
A lot of time can very easily be soaked up in a "paint job"
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| <p>nope, he first said, it was a clean orig car from Illinois, then he said it had a lot of bondo, then he said it had 4 coats of paint, then he said the guy told him the rear quarter were full of bondo and asked what he wanted to do, the owner said replace them, it sounded like a owner who relied on someone being honest and true, as he would or is , it sounded to me and to him as he finally came clean and finally told someone, that just happened to be me, this day, this morning, this place , that he got scammed, yes he should have known his car, yea he should have stripped it him self to see what he had, I feel 100% that 70%of autobodyshops are predators , autobodyshops will, do, screw u, just like a transmission shops, same people, they will bend u over , that's there busssness bending metal and bending people over</p>
Edited by 196061SAVOY 2015-07-04 7:52 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | I suspect that any of these major panel replacement jobs we see Jan Fridberg
doing in another thread would rack up 20 large by the time the paint was sprayed,
wet sanded, and buffed. Cubic time = cubic dollars
If a guy is long on time and short on bucks, developing a little skill and putting
that time "to work" can greatly reduce end costs.
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| yup, your right, but diff animals, |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | Yep
I am not a rich man, but I dont have a lot of time either, but I make time and asking questions, taking advice and having a go will save you plenty (most times, there have been, and will be, monumental stuff ups as well)
Oh, this isnt directed at anyone, just what I have done
I have to say, I am really looking forward to seeing this car when it comes out of paint
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | a nib file is a small square @ 1" file mounted in wood . used only to remove drips/runs . i tried one once and threw it away . those air operated . i bought a rodac air straight line sander 40 yrs.
ago didn't like it much either . even though its easier on the arms it takes longer to remove fillers . a hand board is much quicker . i'd say 50% quicker --------------------------------later |
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Location: Connecticut | Another factor is whether the owner wanted the car stripped to bare metal, or just have existing paint sanded and then have a seal coat applied. The GTO guy probably wanted a first class job and that's why his bill was 20K. I'll bet his car is beautiful. Ron |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | not everyone wants mortgage money for paint work . i've seen great paint done in barns , kinda like big john fowlie's paint . -----------------------------------------------later |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The paint rub-out (color-sanding) is critical to a good paint job, as is the clear coat, which covers-over a LOT of
paint-application imperfections.
But, 'you' will, still, have to do a lot of general pre-painting preparation work, to ensure and attain good final results.
Let's do some math....ALL of the paint materials could cost $2,000.00...maybe/depending/etc...
That leaves $18K for all of the labor to remove trim and strip/prep the body (color changes?) and
to paint the body.
At a West Coast labor rate of $75.00/hour...anything more would be a rip-off, as there are
Economies-of-Scale, and differing labor costs, within the various labor operations.
So, at a flat-rate of $75.00/hr, there would be 30(!) full-days for total painting labor, on this one car.
THAT'S excessive...but, the painter might reply that $18,000.00 IS the retail-value for the
"quality" of his painting work.
Also, the applied-paint might well be the easy-to-apply water-based paint...I'd certainly want to get a
price/cost breakdown on this job, but EXNER-forbid that the painter be asked to substantiate
his labor and materials costs!
Edited by d500neil 2015-07-05 5:17 AM
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | Patrick I think what your going to have to do is break this down in your head. If, key word IF your car is ready to spray. IE no corrosion starting on the metal. NO dings DENT imperfections No rust Just the simple aspect for whomever YOU choose to do it is ALL they have to do is MASK windows and jambs Epoxy seal and single stage it NO color sanding no buffing Just unmask it windows and jambs. Push it outside and have you bring them the $$, Then yes $3500 is a reasonable number.
When I use to paint cars for others, I would call the Jobber (paint supply store) give them a list of what's needed. Then send you the owner to go pickup and pay for all materials needed and bring them to me. Every response I got from everyone I ever did this was initially is ok that's fine ( they felt I was lying about material costs) when they delivered EVERY single time response is THATS unbelievable how expensive this crap is.
IF (again) I found anything that did not pertain to the original agreement ( see above what spraying consisted of) I would call have them stop and look and discuss what is needed to be done. Your/their decision.
Getting back to your original question How long should a paint job take??? You state your car is ready to spray, the person needs to do nothing OTHER then spraying it. 2 days tops. Matter a fact 1 day at most.
You need to keep in mind that any monkey can spray a car. But the secret and success behind having either a soo so job to a wow type is in the prepping and above all the pride one takes in their workmanship.
Myself if your happy with what the first guy did for you, WAIT for him END OF STORY.
PS The GTO guy, if quarters had to be replaced, did that lead into outer and inner wheelhouse replacement, What about trunk turn downs, how about rocker panels inner and outers that may of been rotted away. What about the rear panel that goes under the rear window that rotts away on those cars also. Which leads into removing the rear window which leads into removing the interior which leads into removing the headliner which in most cases is so dry rotted that it needs replacing which means you have to pull the windshield which in most cases breaks on the way out and after its out finding the rot in the troff for the windshield which in some cases leads to removing the front clip which leads to.......................................................
So you question can go so far with variables. Wait for your guy |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Wayne ..... why so pessimistic ? You say this like things can, and will go wrong ! 
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio |
Yeah I guess I shouldn't live in the real world then |
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Location: Connecticut | A lot of body guys won't even touch a car that you've primered/bondoed. They don't want to deal with an irate customer that comes to them six months down the road, complaining that the paint is cracking, lifting, bubbling, etc. What kind of guarantee does Maaco give you with their paint job ? Ron |
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | ronbo97 - 2015-07-05 11:08 AM
A lot of body guys won't even touch a car that you've primered/bondoed. They don't want to deal with an irate customer that comes to them six months down the road, complaining that the paint is cracking, lifting, bubbling, etc. What kind of guarantee does Maaco give you with their paint job ? Ron
BINGO DING DING DING DING You hit it right on. When it comes to this type of work, either A) you know what your doing or B) your a know it all that cant but think you can dictate the "way" things should be in our own eyes. My self, I never would paint behind ANYONE unless I knew that person and dealt with their work
Material alone for this car was in excess of $4500 The red base was $850 a gal we had to use 3 gal of it (its my dads car that we did took close to 3 years)
Edited by w.weiland 2015-07-05 1:04 PM
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Posts: 2003
Location: Branson, MO | Maaco's warranty is one year against fading and peeling regarding their paint "specials". I'm not sure if there is a better warranty on their higher dollar paint jobs or not. Their "specials" that we had done never presented a problem but we didn't abuse the cars either. They were always garaged and kept clean especially from tree sap and bird s**t. |
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Location: Connecticut | Viper Guy - 2015-07-05 5:46 PM Maaco's warranty is one year against fading and peeling regarding their paint "specials". I'm not sure if there is a better warranty on their higher dollar paint jobs or not. How about lifting, cracking, bubbling, rust through ? That is far more likely to happen. Once Maaco (or anyone that agrees to paint your car for 1000 or less) finishes their work, they never want to see you again. Guaranteed. Higher dollar paint jobs ? When the paint on the hood on my Olds started bubbling about six months after it was professionally painted by one of the shops I use, they took the car in immediately, stripped, reprimed and repainted it. The following week, I took it to the Olds Nationals and got second in class. That was 14 years ago. Today, the hood and the rest of the body still look great ! Note: The only reason that the paint was delaminating was because of problems PPG had with a batch of their primer. My shop found out about it shortly after they completed my car. Ron |
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Posts: 2003
Location: Branson, MO | Hey Ron,
Glad you are satisfied with your paint results - can't argue wth success.
From my experiences, my friend's and family's experiences, I say it again - WE HAVE HAD NOTHING BUT GREAT RESULTS FROM MAACO AND FOR THE MONEY, WE CANNOT FIND ANY FAULT IN THE VALUE WE RECEIVED! No blisters, no cracking, no rust, no lifting, no fading, no peeling, no problems! Do you think we would have gone back time after time if we got screwed? Our son kept his car the longest after his Maaco special (black Lebaron convertible) and it withstood five years of service and it looked just as good then when he sold it as it did when he got it out of the shop - which was like factory original.
Nuff said. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | It is for all the reasons above that I always advocate building your car as
an Army staff car. You can get a 5 gallon bucket of OD green at the surplus
yard. Grab a $1.35 paint brush while you're there, and you're off to the rodeo !
And as if that isn't good enough, .... that flat green will make a prune look
as smooth as a hen's egg at ten paces ! And if it cracks or peels, just crack
bucket open and give 'er a second coat !
New car paint, and all for under twenty bucks !
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Expert
Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | Doc's right on there... I did a CJ-7 up in Korean era Army OD years ago after major panel replacement and it was a breeze and I'm the world's worst painter!
Still have an unopened gallon, just in case! |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | This all got lost in a side track
Did you get the paint sorted?
I might have missed it?
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how long should a paint job take
