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Does this master cylinder exist?
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Ev's62Chrysler
Posted 2015-11-08 11:02 AM (#494554)
Subject: Does this master cylinder exist?



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Location: Suwanee, GA
Hi all,

I have a 62 New Yorker station wagon with stock power drum brakes and single reservoir master cylinder. Master and wheel cylinders are all 1-1/8" diameter.

I've searched the forum, read numerous posts, and cannot find the answer. Does anyone know if a dual reservoir master cylinder with 1-1/8" bore exists that will bolt up in place of my original? It must have the floating secondary piston and be for drum brakes, not discs. Also must have same 4-bolt mounting flange. Not interested in 1" bore.

I guy selling new master cylinders at Hershey had what he claimed to be correct for my car, but I didn't ask bore size (nor did I know at the time what I had). I also failed to get his business card. He was sort of out on his own on the other side of Hershey World. Anyone remember him?

Thanks,
Robert
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jimntempe
Posted 2015-11-08 1:23 PM (#494566 - in reply to #494554)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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I saved this from a past question on this subject... The part between the ======= is someone else's old post, don't recall who. The rest is from me...

=========================

Just FYI -- I put dual MC on all 5 of my FL cars, EZ and works fine. Factory rebuilt MC at Autozone for a 68 Plymouth with drum/drum was less than $20 (with lifetime guarantee) bolts right in, then minor plumbing (plug T that lead to rears, and connect rears to other MC port). Then a brake-light switch on a home-made bracket at the pedal. Total cost = less than $50 and 3 hours work. ps- you do need an adjustable push-rod between the pedal and MC - most are already. And for the purists -- it can all be replaced back to original at any time !!!!!

=========================

Looking at rockauto this looks like the right MC is... [A-1 CARDONE 101323 Reman. w/ Reservoir Info Fury Base Model; Power brakes] It's a 1.00" bore

You can see from the table in the pictures that there are two different port sizes so I assume an adaptor would be needed for at least one of them. You can also see that there is a version with a 1-1/8" bore but as the other picture shows, that one is a much taller MC and I doubt it would bit under the powerbooster.



(master cylinder interchange cardone bore size brake1323 1327.jpg)



(master cylinder interchange cardone bore size brake1323 1327 why the 27 won't work too tall.jpg)



(master cylinder dual 1323 orielly auto parts new with better cap.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments master cylinder interchange cardone bore size brake1323 1327.jpg (143KB - 152 downloads)
Attachments master cylinder interchange cardone bore size brake1323 1327 why the 27 won't work too tall.jpg (87KB - 141 downloads)
Attachments master cylinder dual 1323 orielly auto parts new with better cap.jpg (148KB - 141 downloads)
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udoittwo
Posted 2015-11-09 9:20 AM (#494646 - in reply to #494554)
Subject: RE: Does this master cylinder exist?



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Cardone master cylinders beginning with 10-XXXX are rebuilds. Look for 13-XXXX, they are new not rebuilts and they are still available.
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57chizler
Posted 2015-11-09 1:56 PM (#494666 - in reply to #494554)
Subject: RE: Does this master cylinder exist?



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Ev's62Chrysler - 2015-11-08 8:02 AM
Does anyone know if a dual reservoir master cylinder with 1-1/8" bore exists that will bolt up in place of my original? It must have the floating secondary piston and be for drum brakes, not discs.


Not sure what you mean by "floating" but, if you mean the front piston not physically attached to the pushrod, all tandem MC's share that feature...not only drum brake MC's. Basically, the difference between drum and disc MC's is the reservoir size and the presence or not of a residual pressure valve in the rear outlet.

I doubt if you'll find a 4-bolt 1 1/8" drum MC...you could use a disc MC and install a 10 psi RPV in the front brake circuit.

Edited by 57chizler 2015-11-09 1:57 PM
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Ev's62Chrysler
Posted 2015-11-22 1:53 PM (#495872 - in reply to #494554)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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Thanks guys.


57chizler - I've been thinking about using the disc MC with RPV as you mention. Would this be an external, inline RPV, or are there ones that can be inserted into the port of the MC? Do you know where I might source one?

Thanks,
Robert
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57chizler
Posted 2015-11-22 3:10 PM (#495879 - in reply to #495872)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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One could probably rob the RPV from as drum brake MC and install it internally on the disc MC but the external valve would be the most practical way.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rsd-rv10/overview/
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-23 5:58 PM (#526991 - in reply to #494566)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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jimntempe - 2015-11-08 1:23 PM
Looking at rockauto this looks like the right MC is... [A-1 CARDONE 101323 Reman. w/ Reservoir Info Fury Base Model; Power brakes] It's a 1.00" bore.


Looks like the Cardone 13-1323M (manual, drum/drum) is still available and cheap. Looks like it would bolt right up (I'm thinking for my 56 CR)

http://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/cardone+select,131323M,master+cyli...

http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product-Detail?productId=131323M&p=...



Edited by 56D500boy 2016-11-23 7:56 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-23 7:59 PM (#526999 - in reply to #526991)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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56D500boy - 2016-11-23 5:58 PM
Looks like the Cardone 13-1323M (manual, drum/drum) is still available and cheap. Looks like it would bolt right up (I'm thinking for my 56 CR)


I found the 13-1323M locally for $60 CDN. On-line through Rock Auto CDN$41 delivered to my US mail drop (35 minutes away) or $43 CDN delivered to my door. Might be a no brainer.
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Richbo
Posted 2016-11-24 3:44 AM (#527051 - in reply to #494554)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?


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The 10-1323 type has better clearance to remove the cover bolt. And yes - you do need to find adapters for the ports.
Plus - I've seen some labeled "F" and "R" ( with F at the rear port ) but not sure if it really matters !!
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Ev's62Chrysler
Posted 2016-11-24 7:58 AM (#527065 - in reply to #494554)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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The 1323 has a 1" bore. I wanted the 1.125" bore as the original master had. I bought the original type, single reservoir, but will eventually convert the fronts to disc and buy the appropriate one then.

Something to think about: when bleeding brakes as per the shop manual, I could never could get a firm pedal with the shoes fully retracted. My shoes are new, but my drums may be at their limits as to why. Since these brakes are non-self adjusting, the larger bore master offers more fluid "in reserve" within its bore as the shoes start to wear and offers a little comfort in keeping the pedal further from the floor. The booster easily overcomes the additional pedal force too.
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57chizler
Posted 2016-11-26 1:22 PM (#527200 - in reply to #527065)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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Another alternative is to use an adapter that mounts to the 4 holes in the firewall and has provisions for a 2-bolt MC. There seems to be a wider variety of 2-hole 1 1/8" MC's.

http://www.doctordiff.com/master-cylinder-adapter.html
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2016-11-27 6:01 AM (#527253 - in reply to #527065)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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Ev's62Chrysler - 2016-11-24 1:58 AM

The 1323 has a 1" bore. I wanted the 1.125" bore as the original master had.


Since these brakes are non-self adjusting, the larger bore master offers more fluid "in reserve" within its bore as the shoes start to wear and offers a little comfort in keeping the pedal further from the floor. The booster easily overcomes the additional pedal force too.



A brake system is a little more complex than that and has a lot more engineering behind it.
Bore size is related directly to displaced fluid and resulting hydraulic pressure created.
Then there's the stroke of the piston and also the brakepedal ratio which converts mechanical force into hydraulic fluid pressure.

Going from a single 1.125" diameter MC to a dual 1.125" MC means you doubled the amount of fluid displaced to the wheel cylinders, with the stroke staying the same. Meaning; pedal force will be increased greatly.
A brakebooster will not 'fix' an overly large MC in a brake system.

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Ev's62Chrysler
Posted 2016-11-27 9:43 AM (#527260 - in reply to #527253)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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BigBlockMopar - 2016-11-27 6:01 AM.

Going from a single 1.125" diameter MC to a dual 1.125" MC means you doubled the amount of fluid displaced to the wheel cylinders, with the stroke staying the same. Meaning; pedal force will be increased greatly.
A brakebooster will not 'fix' an overly large MC in a brake system.






I'd buy your argument if a dual master cylinder had a single, rigid plunger with two sets of seals rather than two independent plungers and sets of seals separated by a spring. I believe most are the latter.




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57chizler
Posted 2016-11-27 4:15 PM (#527283 - in reply to #527260)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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I agree, the only way to double the volume with a given stroke would be to mount the MC's side-by-side with a connector bar.
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-27 4:37 PM (#527284 - in reply to #527283)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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"The most common type of MC in use today is known as a “dual-tandem” master cylinder. It has separate circuits (pistons and outlets) for front and rear brakes (“dual”), with each circuit having its own independent reservoir. The reason for this is safety – the theory is: if one circuit (front or rear brakes) should fail, there remains the other separate, independent circuit. The two pistons are arranged inline in a single bore (“tandem”). The piston closest to the pedal is the “primary” piston, and the other is the “secondary” piston. Normally, the primary piston operates the font brakes and the secondary piston the rear. Fluid reservoirs may be integrated or remote (attached to the cylinder via hoses). The most common design has the reservoir attached directly to the cylinder."

REFERENCE: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Brakes/

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mstrug
Posted 2016-11-27 5:29 PM (#527292 - in reply to #494554)
Subject: Re: Does this master cylinder exist?



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Adapters:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Brake+Adapter+Fittings+-+S...

I installed a standard PV2 disc/drum valve in my Belvedere. Ran prebent lines from a standard mopar 4 bolt style 1-1/32" MC to it using a a kit for a #0rD and made a bracket to make it work. Marc.

 photo 20160730_175309_zpszt4r0fok.jpg

 photo 20160331_172029_zpsqmu2efwa.jpg
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