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Location: northern germany | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rwur6xqYcM |
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Location: Branson, MO | Very interesting video - at least to me. Brings back memories of the Imperials I used to have even though they were much later models. I believe the last one I had was a 1975 which was the last year for the land yacht version. Then for 1976 the New Yorker took over as the flagship using the Imperial body and trim. No more Imperial until the early 80's which was a glorified Cordoba.
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Location: North Australia | Thanks for posting Sid. great promotion for these under-rated cars (in my biased opinion!). Thankfully they banned them from the derby's!
My 60 with the 12 x 2 1/2 inch brakes actually stops really good. I did have a problem with a front brake grabbing ( on the first application) after the car sat for a while, but it has got better believe it or not, I have not figured that out yet, but probably because one shoe needed to bed in.
Do any owners on here with original 58 Imperial brakes have an opinion? Are they as bad as Leno says?
Steve. |
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| all old cars have bad brakes, he is correct if you want to drive them, you should upgrade the brakes. |
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Location: North Australia | No offence, but I disagree. I dont drive my car a lot, just 4000 miles in the last 20 months or so and the cars brakes work very well.
I have done a number of practice e-stops and she pulls up good, In fact I put them through their paces regularly. I have done more than a couple of stops from high speed, around the ton, and as I said she stops good. I also test the park brake and it is good too.
I am driving in North Australia though. We dont have a peak hour, just a peak minute!  No need for repeated panic stops in frantic city traffic.
Seriously though, I have confidence in the brake system of this car, all the systems for that matter now I have ironed out a few bugs. These are great driving cars. (just got to figure out the coordinated window washer and wiper park)
Steve.
Edited by 60 Imp 2016-09-06 8:27 AM
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Location: Victoria, Vancouver Island, BC Canada |
Our '58 Imperial has been wonderful to drive this year following a 40 year slumber in a heated warehouse. When we got the car the top end of the engine was in the trunk and there were no brakes at all.....after going through the engine and driveline we went through the brakes with new cylinders and shoes.....the drums are round and all within spec...this car stops with no problem at all. We're waiting for the 235/75R/14 American Classics to arrive to give this thing a chance to really show it's stuff......lovely Imperial... |
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Location: northern germany | 60 Imp - 2016-09-06 8:00 AM
Do any owners on here with original 58 Imperial brakes have an opinion? Are they as bad as Leno says?
Steve.
this vid is basically a wilwood commercial. i run wilwoods too, front/rear, GREAT brakes and of course an improvement, but the OE brakes are not as bad a leno claims.
Edited by 1960fury 2016-09-06 1:38 PM
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Location: Vermont | Fixed the brakes on my 59 with new shoes, cylinders and hoses when I first got the car 4 years ago and they work great. No pulling and the car stops fine. I do only put about 1000 miles on the per year. |
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| Lads --
The stock drum brakes on my C are very good, but they have the larger swept area of the B and thus bigger than those of the other models of the Chrysler line and the Imperial. Plus, they do have the ducting from vents under the headlights to supply an outside air flow to cool them. My '65 Vette has 4-wheel disks and weighs only about 3500 pounds, so even the unboosted brakes are very effective.
However, I am thinking about getting some sort of Hemi for my '60 Fury -- not to replace the ram-inducted B engine, but rather to put in the trunk to use as an anchor. If I attached a chain to it, I could kick it out when stopping and thus supplement the old drums.
Since I spent my salad days with cars like these when they were new and all the other cars on the road were similar, I am used to them and really don't intend to change anything. But I must admit that I rather not go in convoy with other aficienados since I have to give plenty of room in front of us. This gets to be a problem on freeway travel as any extra space is quickly filled by other cars so the leading cars in the convoy start getting too far ahead. Still, even solo runs have their compensations as we get to enjoy the "thumbs-ups" and other compliments as we cruise along.
Joe Godec |
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Location: Kansas City, KS | 60 Imp - 2016-09-06 7:00 AM
Do any owners on here with original 58 Imperial brakes have an opinion? Are they as bad as Leno says?
Steve.
Brakes are always an opinionated topic. For driving a few hundred or a few thousand annual miles around my local neighborhood, or slowly going to cruise nights or car shows, then yes, OEM drum brakes and bias-ply tires are adequate. And by adequate, I mean they will stop my 1958 Imperials when I slam on the brake pedal. I have to be constantly aware of distances from other cars and ready for any potential reason to stop but they are adequate in this scenario.
For regular use or in modern traffic, the issue isn't about OEM brakes just being adequate, it's about matching the stopping capabilities of the cars in front of you. If comparing my Imperial's stock brakes to the Honda or Toyota that stops suddenly in front of me on the highway, then yes they are as bad as Jay Leno says.
For heavy traffic in a major metropolitan area like L.A. I would definitely have the largest Wilwood discs that Jay Leno money could buy! |
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Location: northern germany | KcImperial - 2016-09-06 3:42 PM
If comparing my Imperial's stock brakes to the Honda or Toyota that stops suddenly in front of me on the highway, then yes they are as bad as Jay Leno says.
okay, i admit i never drove an imperial but i bet they can lock the wheels from, lets say, 65 mph. maybe even faster than a disk, as the shoes are self actuated (or self applying). so how much more stopping power do you want?
problem is repeated panic stops. an old imperial will always have a longer stopping distance than a honda since they weight more, nothing a disk will (noticeable) change. i'm all for disks but the stock brakes are not that bad. drove around daily with them without problems (until the drums wore out, very high mileage car) just like many, many millions of people around the world back in the day.
Edited by 1960fury 2016-09-06 3:59 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Leno is a good fella! He knows his stuff. This was a great little segment on a fine car. When I first started the video, I thought "Geez, Leno can get a better car than this!"
but then he said it was untouched, unrestored - except for the brakes and a respray.
Leno is the Man. |
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| Mike --
I kinda disagree with you in that Leno "knows his stuff." I cannot believe that anyone who puts wires on a 300G knows his stuff -- even among the old guys back then, wires were out, especially among hard drivers who knew what those high torquing Chrysler mills would do to them and they never were a factory option (only a dealer one) after 1956. I also watched his show on the '63 Split Window in which his Corvette "expert" made several mistakes:
1, side vents were made functional in the '65 model year (my '65 Fuelie has them);
2, that dumb parking brake didn't end with the '63 as the '67 was the first to replace it; and
3, the '63 did make "Route 66" and, in fact, Martin Milner almost bought the farm when one of the wheels with knock-off hubs on his car came off (knock offs were a dealer installed, not production, option late in the '63 model year).
Overall, though, he does well since he is a true car lover and he does seem to look for help in learning about cars. It was interesting that the 300G guy made no comment on the wires. But I do credit him with driving his cars.
Joe |
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | His comment about the 58 Imperial being the largest US built car.............. I think the 58 Lincoln was actually larger. |
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Location: northern germany | Sonoramic60 - 2016-09-07 1:03 PM
Mike --
I kinda disagree with you in that Leno "knows his stuff." I cannot believe that anyone who puts wires on a 300G knows his stuff -- even among the old guys back then, wires were out, especially among hard drivers who knew what those high torquing Chrysler mills would do to them and they never were a factory option (only a dealer one) after 1956.
Joe
yes, wire wheels look so out of place on a late 50s jet age automobile and were not really popular back in the day. in all those years collecting magazines, postcards, photos from the 57-61 period i only saw one 57+ period car with wire wheels (posted by someone here). there is not a single 57+ wire wheeled car in the postcard thread.
funny that leno, with all his money, apparently can't hire a decent mechanic and he really seems to believe "changing lane" when braking is a natural thing with these cars.
Edited by 1960fury 2016-09-07 5:47 PM
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| Sid --
You're not just kidding! "Our" first Vette was actually my wife's as she bought a used '63 vert right after she graduated from college. That baby had drums and with slightly more weight on the rear tires (it had a 51%/49% weight distribution), I swapped ends with that thing twice on panic stops.
I also tend to disagree with the idea of that Corvette expert that open louvers on the hood would have keep the front wheels of small block '63-'67 Vettes down. That magnificent styling was its downfall in that it was an airfoil shape and so generated an aerodynamic lift over the front suspension. My '65 does have three real side vents, but they don't alleviate the problem which was only solved by the Mako shark design of the '68s and later. Carroll Shelby tried to talk to Mitchell and company about that flaw, but they chased him over to Ford.
Joe |
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Location: northern germany | Joe, i was referring to MOPARS  not a big fan of vettes and don't know much about them. imo the 58-60 is the nicest. just saw a tear jerking documentary about the 1960 le mans corvettes. well worth seeing! |
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Location: Branson, MO | 1960fury - 2016-09-07 3:56 PM
Sonoramic60 - 2016-09-07 1:03 PM
Mike --
I kinda disagree with you in that Leno "knows his stuff." I cannot believe that anyone who puts wires on a 300G knows his stuff -- even among the old guys back then, wires were out, especially among hard drivers who knew what those high torquing Chrysler mills would do to them and they never were a factory option (only a dealer one) after 1956.
Joe
yes, wire wheels look so out of place on a late 50s jet age automobile and were not really popular back in the day. in all those years collecting magazines, postcards, photos from the 57-61 period i only saw one 57+ period car with wire wheels (posted by someone here ). there is not a single 57+ wire wheeled car in the postcard thread.
funny that leno, with all his money, apparently can't hire a decent mechanic and he really seems to believe "changing lane" when braking is a natural thing with these cars.
Re: Wire Wheels
I have Kelsey-Hayes factory Chrysler style wire wheels on my '59 Firesweep 4 door sedan and get more compliments than negative comments by at least 10 to 1. Perhaps it's because wire wheels flatter the elegance of a sedan or luxury car more than the sportiness of performance cars - and I feel the same way. If my car was a 300 or Adventurer, it would not have wire wheels. However if it was an Imperial, New Yorker, or Fireflite, I'd opt for the wires. Just me and my preference - everyone has their own opinion(s) and I respect that. What the heck, some even prefer dog dish poverty caps - whatever floats their boat. |
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Viper Guy - 2016-09-07 7:22 PM
Re: Wire Wheels
I have Kelsey-Hayes factory Chrysler style wire wheels on my '59 Firesweep 4 door sedan and get more compliments than negative comments by at least 10 to 1. Perhaps it's because wire wheels flatter the elegance of a sedan or luxury car more than the sportiness of performance cars - and I feel the same way. If my car was a 300 or Adventurer, it would not have wire wheels. However if it was an Imperial, New Yorker, or Fireflite, I'd opt for the wires. Just me and my preference - everyone has their own opinion(s) and I respect that. What the heck, some even prefer dog dish poverty caps - whatever floats their boat.
Actually, those original wire wheels for Chrysler products were not built by Kelsey-Hayes, but by Motor Wheel Co. I like em too, have a reproduction set on our 60 Saratoga.
Edited by imopar380 2016-09-07 11:13 PM
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| Vipeand Ian --
I agree. Those wires look great on the Imperial; in fact, they are absolutely perfect for that car (or for most other luxury cars for that matter). But they just don't fit the image of a high performance automobile as they serve no real purpose other than to present their great good looks and, except in the case of the front wheels of rail job, are actually quite heavy and prone to various kinds of failure. Way back when, in my younger days when the Forward Look was new, there was that trend for dog-dish hubcaps and "baby moons" (which were nothing more than cleaned-up dog-dishes). Thus, on the streets where we used to "cruise the gut," the cars that were most likely candidates for a "stop light Grand Prix" were those with dog-dishes, baby moons on plain red or black steel wheels, a few with chromed and reversed wheels (with baby moons or "spider" hubs), and a fortunate very few with aluminum (Pontiac 8-bolt, Vette knock-offs) or mag (Hallibrand). On the strip or track, plain unadorned steel wheels were the norm. Even the fabulous Poncho 8-bolts were missing at NASCAR and USAC functions (three more lug nuts to remove in a hurry). My '60 Fury, '65 Sport Fury, and '67 R/T all ended up with baby moons as did my wife's '63 Vette (but with chromed, reversed wheels).
So I love wires on Imperials and Cadillacs (even on C-300s and 300Bs), tolerate them on T-Birds, and appreciate the engineering in fitting them to a custom show car or rod. But when I see them on later Letter Cars, Furys, or D-500 Dodges, I ask myself, "Who is he trying to kid with his 'authentic' or 'period correct' restoration?"
Sid --
I think the '62 Corvette is the best looking one of all time, especially with its bucket seat interior, and it did have the 327/360 horse engine, but it is impossible for this old man to get in or out of it with the top up. Plus, you sit with your legs stretched almost straight out, so if you're an old fudd like me, after any time in one, you almost have to be extracted surgically. The point I was trying to make about the brakes is that I agree with you that you have to drive any 1960s-era car, even the ones that were comparatively light with good stopping power, like it was still that day and age and give ample room to forward and side to deal with any emergency.
Joe
Edited by Sonoramic60 2016-09-08 12:06 AM
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Location: Branson, MO | imopar380 - 2016-09-07 10:11 PM
Viper Guy - 2016-09-07 7:22 PM
Re: Wire Wheels
I have Kelsey-Hayes factory Chrysler style wire wheels on my '59 Firesweep 4 door sedan and get more compliments than negative comments by at least 10 to 1. Perhaps it's because wire wheels flatter the elegance of a sedan or luxury car more than the sportiness of performance cars - and I feel the same way. If my car was a 300 or Adventurer, it would not have wire wheels. However if it was an Imperial, New Yorker, or Fireflite, I'd opt for the wires. Just me and my preference - everyone has their own opinion(s) and I respect that. What the heck, some even prefer dog dish poverty caps - whatever floats their boat.
Actually, those original wire wheels for Chrysler products were not built by Kelsey-Hayes, but by Motor Wheel Co. I like em too, have a reproduction set on our 60 Saratoga.
Cool, I did not know that Motor Wheel made those wheels as they have always been referred to Kelsey-Hayes. If it's the same Motor Wheel company in Lansing, MI, a college classmate of mine became president of the company before being sold to a foreign company. He retired then and unfortunately passed away just over a year ago. |
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Viper Guy - 2016-09-08 7:53 AM
Cool, I did not know that Motor Wheel made those wheels as they have always been referred to Kelsey-Hayes. If it's the same Motor Wheel company in Lansing, MI, a college classmate of mine became president of the company before being sold to a foreign company. He retired then and unfortunately passed away just over a year ago.
Yeah, nearly everyone refers to them as Kelsey Hayes wheels, and I thought the same until I bought my reproduction set about 6 years ago. |
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Location: northern germany | Sonoramic60 - 2016-09-08 12:05 AM
I think the '62 Corvette is the best looking one of all time, especially with its bucket seat interior, and it did have the 327/360 horse engine,
Joe
oh no, its probably the better, faster car, with aluminum heads etc, but its a homely mishmash between 50s and 60s. imo the rear end is pretty ugly. the facel vega like 58-60 taillights are much nicer than the boring holes in the sheetm.... plastic, also the rear bumper of the 58-60, with the integrated desoto like exhaust ports is pretty nice, but i always preferred 50s over 60s, in every way. |
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Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | Mac Daddy wheels are nice:
http://cadillacworld.homestead.com/chryslerkelseyhayeswheels.html
and Hobbycar:
http://www.hobbycar.com/chrysler.html
Roadster via coker:
http://www.roadsterwirewheel.com/chrysler-style-wire-wheel
Coker:
https://www.cokertire.com/wheels/wire-wheels/chrysler-wire.html
Only oldies:
http://onlyoldiesgarage.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16770&cat=2...
http://onlyoldiesgarage.com/xcart/cart.php
Wheel Vintiques:
http://www.wheelvintiques.com/chrysler-wire.html
not these:
http://jesda.com/2014/05/29/something-awful-from-texas/
Edited by mstrug 2016-09-08 7:24 PM
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| Lads --
Looks like I done been whupped agin! I'll try to get back into Vipe's and Ian's good graces by admitting I like wires on some cars, primarily the big luxury ones and the true classics that came before WWII. On those cars, they really are more appropriate than even the fanciest of wheel covers. My only issue with them is that in this day and age they really don't belong on the post '56 "muscle cars" of the Forward Look because they simply weren't in vogue with those kinds of cars then. That's why I don't like them on Leno's 300G (did I see a C or D somewhere in the background?) but think they're great on his '58 Imperial; and they are just plain bogus on the "authentic" restorations of the red and the gold '60 Sonoramic Furys that have been on the block at Barrett-Jackson. If you put them on a car because you like them, that's a matter of taste and is perfectly fine; but if you try to pass them off as "period correct" or as factory approved "dealer installed options" on a car such as a later D-500 or a 300F that's a different story.
I don't think I'll be able to placate Sid on aesthetic qualities of the '63-'67 Corvettes, but "That's my story and I'm stickin' to it." I love the bobtail and sidemount exhausts although the fuzz, boom rappers, and bicycle riders don't. But again, differences in opinion lead to horse races and I love races.
Incidently, I want to reiterate that I admire Leno in the way he deals with his cars. I just think that he should be more careful in his research -- not on the cars themselves, but on the so-called "experts" that advise him. That guy with the '63 Split Window may have known some things (and only some things) about '63s, but he would have lost the bet if anyone would have called him.
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Location: northern germany | Sonoramic60 - 2016-09-08 10:41 PM
I don't think I'll be able to placate Sid on aesthetic qualities of the '63-'67 Corvettes, but...
Joe
Joe, you said 62 corvette, not 63. i can understand why you like the stingrays but the 62 is a mishmash between 50s and 60s. i'll never like "sports" cars and the snobby "aura" around them but the 63-67 is an interesting design. |
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Location: Grenoble - France | Did you notice the VIN ? 6666. Almost the Devil's car.  |
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Location: Upstate NY | Great video! Thanks for posting |
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| Sid --
I wuz jist funnin'.
Joe |
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1958 Imperial Jay Lenos garage
