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luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | hi everyone I've got a new project I bought a 60 desoto diplomat without any paperwork it is a 4 door hardtop the vehicle no is 4302198641 I need any information about weight-lenght-hight for registration also I need some fender trim parts for the passanger side greetings Jan (027.JPG) (028.JPG) (029.JPG) (031.JPG) (032.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 027.JPG (178KB - 475 downloads) 028.JPG (186KB - 521 downloads) 029.JPG (174KB - 490 downloads) 031.JPG (176KB - 504 downloads) 032.JPG (178KB - 480 downloads) | ||
polara61 |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 417 Location: Bräcke,Sweden | Since it's a 4 door hardtop it should be pretty much like a Dodge Dart Phoenix. | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9904 Location: Lower Mainland BC | polara61 - 2017-04-17 6:31 AM Since it's a 4 door hardtop it should be pretty much like a Dodge Dart Phoenix. And that can be backed up by this: "The 1960 and 1961 DeSoto Diplomats were based on the full-size Dodge Dart." REFERENCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeSoto_Diplomat Which then leads to: Dimensions: Wheelbase 118 in (2,997 mm) (except wagons) Length 210.5 in (5,347 mm)[3] Width 78.7 in (1,999 mm) Height 54.8 in (1,392 mm REFERENCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Dart Which leads to this: REFERENCE (very good): http://www.allpar.com/history/dodge/1960.html | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | Thanks Dave | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | but there were no full size darts ---------------------------------------------------------later | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9904 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 60 dart - 2017-04-17 11:31 PM but there were no full size darts ---------------------------------------------------------later I think that writer meant the 118" wheel base ones, not to be confused with these Darts: Edited by 56D500boy 2017-04-18 1:54 AM | ||
Chrycoman |
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Expert Posts: 1819 Location: Vancouver, BC | The VIN you gave, 4302198641, decodes as 4 - Car Line - Dodge Dart 6 / DeSoto Diplomat 6 3 - Series - Phoenix (Dart) / Custom (Diplomat) 0 - Model Year - 1960 2 - Assembly Plant - Hamtramck 198641 - Sequence Number - 98,641st 1960 car off the Hamtramck line. Which means it was assembled in Hamtramck (Detroit), Michigan, and not a CKD unit assembled in Europe. The CKD units generally had a VIN consisting of the model year, assembly plant and the sequence number. They were issued a local VIN to go with it. Is there a body tag under the hood? Should have a row of letters with numbers below some of the letters. The bottom row is for SO NUMBER, BDY, TRIM, PAINT. If the tag is there, is there a letter "S" on the bottom row? You might also find a broadcast sheet somewhere in the car which would give more detail on what was installed on the car. Chrysler Corp. referred to the DeSoto Diplomat 6 Custom as model PF3-H. Dart 6 Phoenix was PD3-H Diplomat 6 Custom 4dr hardtop was PF3-H-43. The V8 models were PF4 and PD4. Detroit built Diplomats were available in all body styles as the Dart, while the Canadjan plant built only DeSoto Diplomat 6 Deluxe 4dr sedans (PF3-M-41). Some of the side trim is unique for the Diplomat and the design is based on the trim used in 1957. The trim is not interchangeable between 1957 and 1960, though. The upper piece, that runs from the front fender to the rear of the car, was used on all Dodge Dart (Seneca, Pioneer, Phoenix) and Diplomat models. Part number for the section on the front fender is 2196 424 (right) and 2196 425 (left). The lower piece on the front fender is is 2196 705 (right) and 2196 706 (left). You are also missing the "Diplomat" nameplate on the rear quarter panel. It attaches to the quarter panel in the same spot as the series nameplates on the Dart. Part number was 2196 701 while the "Custom" nameplate was number 2240 589. Your Diplomat looks to be in very good condition. And it is a rare model. Bill Vancouver, BC | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | Hi Bill thanks for the info it has a body tag its 0324 9301 S 434 165 (001.JPG) (004.JPG) (007.JPG) (008.JPG) (009.JPG) (010.JPG) (012.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 001.JPG (181KB - 483 downloads) 004.JPG (180KB - 479 downloads) 007.JPG (177KB - 466 downloads) 008.JPG (175KB - 484 downloads) 009.JPG (175KB - 469 downloads) 010.JPG (174KB - 477 downloads) 012.JPG (173KB - 457 downloads) | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | the car had an front accident in 1967 after this it comes in a barn and come out 48 years later | ||
Imp58Alpes |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 558 Location: Grenoble - France | Is it this one? I'm excited to see it returning back to life!!!! Edited by Imp58Alpes 2017-04-18 3:09 PM (1960 Diplomat htp sdn Germany 03.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1960 Diplomat htp sdn Germany 03.jpg (77KB - 464 downloads) | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | Hi Frederic Yes it is the same. ... | ||
spinout |
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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland | I remember the discussion about this Diplomat in this forum 3 years ago. You can find it here: barn find 1960 desoto in germany. The swivel seats are cool, like the whole car. Wondering what were the lamps below the regular taillights, which now removed. Edited by spinout 2017-04-18 4:32 PM | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9904 Location: Lower Mainland BC | spinout - 2017-04-18 4:26 PM Wondering what were the lamps below the regular taillights, which now removed. Those would have been the Euro-mandated orange signal lights. Not sure when that started. | ||
spinout |
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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland | 56D500boy - 2017-04-19 1:48 AM Those would have been the Euro-mandated orange signal lights. Not sure when that started. Could be.. If so, it did not cover the whole Europe. The retrofitted amber rear indicators were unknown thing up here in north, fortunately.. | ||
Imp58Alpes |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 558 Location: Grenoble - France | spinout - 2017-04-18 10:57 PM 56D500boy - 2017-04-19 1:48 AM Those would have been the Euro-mandated orange signal lights. Not sure when that started. Could be.. If so, it did not cover the whole Europe. The retrofitted amber rear indicators were unknown thing up here in north, fortunately.. I don't think these orange turn signal lights would have been euro-mandated. There was no such european community regulation back in the day, in the 60s, as the EC was rather young. It could have been however a country regulation, like Germany in the case of this Diplomat. In France in the 60s, for example, one could have orange brake light, red turn signals, orange backup lights, or have an american iron with the US dual function (turn signals and brake together). Things were clarified in the very early 70s (red brake, orange turn, white backup). One thing that seems however common between that German Diplomat and other cars imported into France in these years is the addition of rear reflectors, as if the US ones were not good enough. | ||
imopar380 |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7207 Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Interesting interior on the car. The seats and door panels are pure Dart Phoenix, as well as the steering wheel. The dash however, while almost identical to the Dodge dash, is DeSoto specific in this car, having the speedometer completely shrouded (as opposed to the open speedo on the Dodge) and with the DeSoto style clock protruding out the front of the dash (as opposed to the Dodge "satellite" clock on top). | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | time to start (37.JPG) (013.JPG) (014.JPG) (015.JPG) (34.JPG) (41.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 37.JPG (178KB - 468 downloads) 013.JPG (180KB - 464 downloads) 014.JPG (181KB - 482 downloads) 015.JPG (184KB - 459 downloads) 34.JPG (181KB - 459 downloads) 41.JPG (175KB - 491 downloads) | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | next step-old frame out-cut out the automatic transmission mount for the new frame | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | pic (34.JPG) (38.JPG) (40.JPG) (42.JPG) (52.JPG) (54.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 34.JPG (181KB - 459 downloads) 38.JPG (182KB - 457 downloads) 40.JPG (185KB - 445 downloads) 42.JPG (174KB - 442 downloads) 52.JPG (187KB - 471 downloads) 54.JPG (180KB - 509 downloads) | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | next (56.JPG) (58.JPG) (63.JPG) (65.JPG) (72.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 56.JPG (178KB - 436 downloads) 58.JPG (179KB - 448 downloads) 63.JPG (181KB - 457 downloads) 65.JPG (184KB - 458 downloads) 72.JPG (178KB - 434 downloads) | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | wasn't easier to find a new front subframe? :0 | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | I take a new subframe It comes from a dodge with v8 so I only changed the motor and transmisson mounts | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9670 Location: So. Cal | Are you sure when you are done, that you aren't going to hit yourself and say: "I coulda had a V8!" ? That's from an old commercial in case you didn't know. | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | maybe yes.....but I wan't this like it come out in 1960 | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7400 Location: northern germany | Powerflite - 2017-10-24 1:25 PM Are you sure when you are done, that you aren't going to hit yourself and say: "I coulda had a V8!" ? i bet this is what this guy thought. slant 6s are said to be good engines but these cars just need a V8, the sound and the effortless power and torque, lives too short for a 6. Edited by 1960fury 2017-10-24 3:11 PM (wishitwasV8.jpg) Attachments ---------------- wishitwasV8.jpg (16KB - 458 downloads) | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7400 Location: northern germany | i just got it.... you mean you really changen the V8 frame into a 6 frame?! that must be a worldwide 1rst, on any car or make. As the car will never be oe anyway, why not switch to a 8?! so much more fun. | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | new from PST (81.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 81.JPG (176KB - 464 downloads) | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | rh side 11mm shorter befor stripping and stretching (82.JPG) (86.JPG) (87.JPG) (89.JPG) (92.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 82.JPG (180KB - 410 downloads) 86.JPG (177KB - 483 downloads) 87.JPG (176KB - 414 downloads) 89.JPG (176KB - 414 downloads) 92.JPG (177KB - 411 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9670 Location: So. Cal | Nice job! Not always easy to figure out how to get that done. | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | now doors and fenders fit again... (93.png) (94.png) (102.JPG) (104.JPG) (105.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 93.png (129KB - 413 downloads) 94.png (140KB - 414 downloads) 102.JPG (183KB - 395 downloads) 104.JPG (176KB - 400 downloads) 105.JPG (172KB - 407 downloads) | ||
drosera88 |
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Expert Posts: 1267 Location: San Antonio TX | Really cool!!! That 57-esque Desoto trim looks great on a "Dodge" body! Too bad the Diplomat was export only. It'd be nice to have more of these on the roads stateside! | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | next step would be the paint job... (106.JPG) (107.JPG) (108.JPG) (109.JPG) (111.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 106.JPG (179KB - 406 downloads) 107.JPG (177KB - 406 downloads) 108.JPG (171KB - 396 downloads) 109.JPG (174KB - 389 downloads) 111.JPG (176KB - 417 downloads) | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7400 Location: northern germany | that red primer is backed on by the factory. i wouldn't remove it, if not necessary! what ever you do you can't get better adhesion with any of the the new paints. | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | found it under rear seat (121.png) Attachments ---------------- 121.png (145KB - 416 downloads) | ||
Chrycoman |
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Expert Posts: 1819 Location: Vancouver, BC | AMP - American Metal Products Company, Detroit.,. manufacturers of formed wire seat assemblies The 2092 413 appears to be a part number. I have the Canadian 1960 parts book but that number is not listed. Not surprising as the US-built Diplomat used US-built Dodge Dart seats while in Canada the Plymouth, Dart and Diplomat all used Plymouth seats. | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | now it´s time for the paint job.... (123.JPG) (124.JPG) (125.JPG) (126.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 123.JPG (178KB - 376 downloads) 124.JPG (175KB - 400 downloads) 125.JPG (172KB - 407 downloads) 126.JPG (176KB - 380 downloads) | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | little update (IMG-20191009-WA0013.jpg.png) (IMG-20191024-WA0028.jpg.png) (IMG-20191024-WA0029.jpg.png) (IMG-20191024-WA0030.jpg.png) (IMG-20191028-WA0019.jpg.png) (IMG-20191028-WA0016.jpg.png) (IMG-20191028-WA0015.jpg.png) (IMG-20191028-WA0014.jpg.png) Attachments ---------------- IMG-20191009-WA0013.jpg.png (153KB - 355 downloads) IMG-20191024-WA0028.jpg.png (298KB - 343 downloads) IMG-20191024-WA0029.jpg.png (284KB - 347 downloads) IMG-20191024-WA0030.jpg.png (167KB - 356 downloads) IMG-20191028-WA0019.jpg.png (185KB - 352 downloads) IMG-20191028-WA0016.jpg.png (158KB - 344 downloads) IMG-20191028-WA0015.jpg.png (112KB - 346 downloads) IMG-20191028-WA0014.jpg.png (154KB - 349 downloads) | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7400 Location: northern germany | 1960fury - 2018-01-22 2:50 PM that red primer is backed on by the factory. i wouldn't remove it, if not necessary! what ever you do you can't get better adhesion with any of the the new paints. "baked" of course. Too bad some people know it better. Edited by 1960fury 2019-10-31 6:33 AM | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | Rust under the Red Primer ... Good some people know it better.. | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7400 Location: northern germany | luedi - 2019-10-31 7:44 AM Rust under the Red Primer ... Good some people know it better.. Nonsense, and you don't. No such thing, maybe a coupe of edges, small areas. I restore the cars for over 30 years and have seen alot. The car is (or was) a VERY low mileage time capsule in a barn since 1967. I was bidding on it on ebay, contacted the seller. Original paint. You mistake the rust-red primer for rust. You pictures tell the whole story, smooth factory baked on primer, no rust. It is always sad when originality is needlessly destroyed, but it is a tragedy if it is an irreversible downgrade in quality at the same time. Edited by 1960fury 2019-10-31 12:05 PM (111.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 111.JPG (176KB - 351 downloads) | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | Wow....30years My paint shop is over 40 years in business... They know the different from rust and primer I would never criticize the work from people only by a few photos.... | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7400 Location: northern germany | luedi - 2019-10-31 12:34 PM Wow....30years My paint shop is over 40 years in business... They know the different from rust and primer Yes? 40 years experience with these cars? Wow. Probably not and if that was the case even worse, because if they told you the smooth even red layer under non bubbling original paint, that can be sanded of with no pitting to a shiny surface is rust, they were either lying to you or are downright stupid. It is impossible that a car rusts that way and it is impossible that a very low mileage car (IIRC 38k miles) that was stored inside since 1967 developes that rust and you know that. Everyone here with experience restoring the unibody cars knows, this was the factory primer and not rust. Period. Edited by 1960fury 2019-10-31 2:37 PM | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | What do you mean you are Now you said my brother lying and is stupid? | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7400 Location: northern germany | luedi - 2019-10-31 2:56 PM What do you mean you are Now you said my brother lying and is stupid? ??? It was you who posted the red factory primer is rust. Make your own conclusions. Your brother has 40 years restoring FL's? Never heard of him or his shop , I live not far from Hamburg. Anyway, it is your car and you can do with it whatever you want, overrestore the hell out of a 38k miles (once) time capsule. Good bye. Edited by 1960fury 2019-11-01 7:19 AM | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9904 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 1960fury - 2018-01-22 11:50 AM that red primer is backed on by the factory. i wouldn't remove it, if not necessary! what ever you do you can't get better adhesion with any of the the new paints. I with you here, Sid. Removal of all the paint and primer down to bare metal wasn't likely necessary. I would doubt that the new primer is any better than the old baked on primer. That said, it is luedi's car and he can do what he wants. We don't have to agree with him. Edited by 56D500boy 2019-10-31 9:03 PM | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7400 Location: northern germany | 56D500boy - 2019-10-31 9:02 PM 1960fury - 2018-01-22 11:50 AM that red primer is backed on by the factory. i wouldn't remove it, if not necessary! what ever you do you can't get better adhesion with any of the the new paints. I with you here, Sid. Removal of all the paint and primer down to bare metal wasn't likely necessary. I would doubt that the new primer is any better than the old baked on primer. That said, it is luedi's car and he can do what he wants. We don't have to agree with him. :) I know what I'm talking about. I did some extensive testing with the factory baked on primer (that can't be done in a paint booth) and the new "environment friendly" new crappy paints for repaints or even factory paint on new cars. The red baked on Mopar factory primer is like galvanized, no comparison with new paints. Of course we don't have to agree with him, it is unfortunately his car, but we don't have to buy the fairytale that there was an even layer of rust under the unmolested smooth factory paint. Everyone here knows this is BS. The car was a 38K miles, 50 years indoor storage time capsule. Too bad the nicest cars always end up in the wrong hands. Edited by 1960fury 2019-11-01 7:20 AM | ||
57burb |
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Expert Posts: 3967 Location: DFW, TX | Sheesh. Looks like the car is coming along very nicely. The primer would have been a good base, but I don't think there's any issue with bringing a car down to metal. Some people don't want to deal with contamination from layers below. (and yes I know what sealer does ) I really like the side trim they put on that car, really makes it look like a Desoto! Enjoy | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | next (144.png) (145.png) (146.png) (147.png) Attachments ---------------- 144.png (162KB - 353 downloads) 145.png (328KB - 345 downloads) 146.png (131KB - 357 downloads) 147.png (304KB - 353 downloads) | ||
luedi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 538 Location: Hamburg-Germany | 1 (IMG-20191119-WA0002.jpg) (IMG-20191119-WA0011.jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG-20191119-WA0002.jpg (88KB - 369 downloads) IMG-20191119-WA0011.jpg (171KB - 350 downloads) | ||
wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13049 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Looks great! Keep up the good work. | ||
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