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1960 desoto diplomat
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luedi
Posted 2017-04-17 4:35 AM (#538226)
Subject: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		hi everyone
I've got a new project
I bought a 60 desoto diplomat without any paperwork
it is a 4 door hardtop the vehicle no is 4302198641
I need any information about weight-lenght-hight for registration
also I need some fender trim parts for the passanger side
greetings Jan




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polara61
Posted 2017-04-17 6:31 AM (#538227 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Bräcke,Sweden		Since it's a 4 door hardtop it should be pretty much like a Dodge Dart Phoenix.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-04-17 10:17 AM (#538234 - in reply to #538227)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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polara61 - 2017-04-17 6:31 AM

Since it's a 4 door hardtop it should be pretty much like a Dodge Dart Phoenix.


And that can be backed up by this:

"The 1960 and 1961 DeSoto Diplomats were based on the full-size Dodge Dart."

REFERENCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeSoto_Diplomat

Which then leads to:

Dimensions:

Wheelbase 118 in (2,997 mm) (except wagons)
Length 210.5 in (5,347 mm)[3]
Width 78.7 in (1,999 mm)
Height 54.8 in (1,392 mm

REFERENCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Dart

Which leads to this:



REFERENCE (very good): http://www.allpar.com/history/dodge/1960.html

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luedi
Posted 2017-04-17 3:16 PM (#538260 - in reply to #538234)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		Thanks Dave
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60 dart
Posted 2017-04-17 11:31 PM (#538286 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-04-18 1:51 AM (#538290 - in reply to #538286)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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60 dart - 2017-04-17 11:31 PM
but there were no full size darts ---------------------------------------------------------later


I think that writer meant the 118" wheel base ones, not to be confused with these Darts:



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-04-18 1:54 AM
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Chrycoman
Posted 2017-04-18 7:30 AM (#538295 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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The VIN you gave, 4302198641, decodes as

4 - Car Line - Dodge Dart 6 / DeSoto Diplomat 6
3 - Series - Phoenix (Dart) / Custom (Diplomat)
0 - Model Year - 1960
2 - Assembly Plant - Hamtramck
198641 - Sequence Number - 98,641st 1960 car off the Hamtramck line.

Which means it was assembled in Hamtramck (Detroit), Michigan, and not a CKD unit assembled in Europe. The CKD units generally had a VIN consisting of the model year, assembly plant and the sequence number. They were issued a local VIN to go with it.
Is there a body tag under the hood? Should have a row of letters with numbers below some of the letters. The bottom row is for SO NUMBER, BDY, TRIM, PAINT. If the tag is there, is there a letter "S" on the bottom row? You might also find a broadcast sheet somewhere in the car which would give more detail on what was installed on the car.

Chrysler Corp. referred to the DeSoto Diplomat 6 Custom as model PF3-H. Dart 6 Phoenix was PD3-H Diplomat 6 Custom 4dr hardtop was PF3-H-43. The V8 models were PF4 and PD4.

Detroit built Diplomats were available in all body styles as the Dart, while the Canadjan plant built only DeSoto Diplomat 6 Deluxe 4dr sedans (PF3-M-41).

Some of the side trim is unique for the Diplomat and the design is based on the trim used in 1957. The trim is not interchangeable between 1957 and 1960, though. The upper piece, that runs from the front fender to the rear of the car, was used on all Dodge Dart (Seneca, Pioneer, Phoenix) and Diplomat models. Part number for the section on the front fender is 2196 424 (right) and 2196 425 (left). The lower piece on the front fender is is 2196 705 (right) and 2196 706 (left).

You are also missing the "Diplomat" nameplate on the rear quarter panel. It attaches to the quarter panel in the same spot as the series nameplates on the Dart. Part number was 2196 701 while the "Custom" nameplate was number 2240 589.

Your Diplomat looks to be in very good condition. And it is a rare model.

Bill
Vancouver, BC
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luedi
Posted 2017-04-18 2:09 PM (#538310 - in reply to #538295)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		Hi Bill
thanks for the info
it has a body tag
its
0324 9301 S 434 165



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luedi
Posted 2017-04-18 2:14 PM (#538311 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		the car had an front accident in 1967
after this it comes in a barn and come out 48 years later
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Imp58Alpes
Posted 2017-04-18 2:46 PM (#538313 - in reply to #538311)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Grenoble - France		Is it this one? I'm excited to see it returning back to life!!!!

Edited by Imp58Alpes 2017-04-18 3:09 PM




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luedi
Posted 2017-04-18 3:02 PM (#538316 - in reply to #538313)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		Hi Frederic
Yes it is the same. ...
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spinout
Posted 2017-04-18 4:26 PM (#538319 - in reply to #538316)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland		I remember the discussion about this Diplomat in this forum 3 years ago. You can find it here: barn find 1960 desoto in germany.
The swivel seats are cool, like the whole car. Wondering what were the lamps below the regular taillights, which now removed.

Edited by spinout 2017-04-18 4:32 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-04-18 4:48 PM (#538321 - in reply to #538319)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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spinout - 2017-04-18 4:26 PM Wondering what were the lamps below the regular taillights, which now removed.


Those would have been the Euro-mandated orange signal lights. Not sure when that started.

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spinout
Posted 2017-04-18 4:57 PM (#538322 - in reply to #538321)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland
56D500boy - 2017-04-19 1:48 AM
Those would have been the Euro-mandated orange signal lights. Not sure when that started.


Could be.. If so, it did not cover the whole Europe. The retrofitted amber rear indicators were unknown thing up here in north, fortunately..
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Imp58Alpes
Posted 2017-04-19 3:28 AM (#538355 - in reply to #538322)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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spinout - 2017-04-18 10:57 PM

56D500boy - 2017-04-19 1:48 AM
Those would have been the Euro-mandated orange signal lights. Not sure when that started.


Could be.. If so, it did not cover the whole Europe. The retrofitted amber rear indicators were unknown thing up here in north, fortunately..


I don't think these orange turn signal lights would have been euro-mandated. There was no such european community regulation back in the day, in the 60s, as the EC was rather young. It could have been however a country regulation, like Germany in the case of this Diplomat.

In France in the 60s, for example, one could have orange brake light, red turn signals, orange backup lights, or have an american iron with the US dual function (turn signals and brake together). Things were clarified in the very early 70s (red brake, orange turn, white backup).

One thing that seems however common between that German Diplomat and other cars imported into France in these years is the addition of rear reflectors, as if the US ones were not good enough.
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imopar380
Posted 2017-04-19 12:43 PM (#538397 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada		Interesting interior on the car. The seats and door panels are pure Dart Phoenix, as well as the steering wheel. The dash however, while almost identical to the Dodge dash, is DeSoto specific in this car, having the speedometer completely shrouded (as opposed to the open speedo on the Dodge) and with the DeSoto style clock protruding out the front of the dash (as opposed to the Dodge "satellite" clock on top).
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luedi
Posted 2017-07-15 11:57 AM (#544180 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		time to start



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luedi
Posted 2017-09-30 4:37 AM (#549454 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		next step-old frame out-cut out the automatic transmission mount for the new frame
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luedi
Posted 2017-09-30 4:39 AM (#549455 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		pic



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luedi
Posted 2017-10-23 2:45 PM (#550868 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		next



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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-10-23 5:45 PM (#550883 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat


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wasn't easier to find a new front subframe? :0
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luedi
Posted 2017-10-24 12:54 PM (#550945 - in reply to #550883)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		I take a new subframe
It comes from a dodge with v8
so I only changed the motor and transmisson
mounts
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-10-24 1:25 PM (#550948 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: So. California		Are you sure when you are done, that you aren't going to hit yourself and say: "I coulda had a V8!" ? That's from an old commercial in case you didn't know.
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luedi
Posted 2017-10-24 1:53 PM (#550949 - in reply to #550948)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		 maybe yes.....but I wan't this
like it come out in 1960
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1960fury
Posted 2017-10-24 3:09 PM (#550953 - in reply to #550948)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Powerflite - 2017-10-24 1:25 PM

Are you sure when you are done, that you aren't going to hit yourself and say: "I coulda had a V8!" ?


i bet this is what this guy thought. slant 6s are said to be good engines but these cars just need a V8, the sound and the effortless power and torque, lives too short for a 6.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-10-24 3:11 PM




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1960fury
Posted 2017-10-24 3:18 PM (#550957 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: northern germany		i just got it.... you mean you really changen the V8 frame into a 6 frame?! that must be a worldwide 1rst, on any car or make. As the car will never be oe anyway, why not switch to a 8?! so much more fun.
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luedi
Posted 2017-10-31 6:26 AM (#551385 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		new from PST



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luedi
Posted 2018-01-09 4:26 AM (#555898 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		rh side 11mm shorter befor stripping and stretching



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Powerflite
Posted 2018-01-09 8:31 AM (#555903 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: So. California		Nice job! Not always easy to figure out how to get that done.
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luedi
Posted 2018-01-10 4:48 AM (#555958 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		now doors and fenders fit again...



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drosera88
Posted 2018-01-10 4:18 PM (#556003 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: San Antonio TX		Really cool!!! That 57-esque Desoto trim looks great on a "Dodge" body! Too bad the Diplomat was export only. It'd be nice to have more of these on the roads stateside!
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luedi
Posted 2018-01-22 2:35 PM (#556752 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		next step would be the paint job...



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1960fury
Posted 2018-01-22 2:50 PM (#556753 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: northern germany		that red primer is backed on by the factory. i wouldn't remove it, if not necessary! what ever you do you can't get better adhesion with any of the the new paints.
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luedi
Posted 2018-01-31 2:06 PM (#557271 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		found it under rear seat



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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-01-31 8:55 PM (#557297 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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AMP - American Metal Products Company, Detroit.,. manufacturers of formed wire seat assemblies

The 2092 413 appears to be a part number. I have the Canadian 1960 parts book but that number is not listed. Not surprising as the US-built Diplomat used US-built Dodge Dart seats while in Canada the Plymouth, Dart and Diplomat all used Plymouth seats.

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luedi
Posted 2018-06-03 5:48 AM (#564450 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		now it´s time for the paint job....



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luedi
Posted 2019-10-31 4:52 AM (#589549 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Posts: 517
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Location: Hamburg-Germany		little update



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1960fury
Posted 2019-10-31 6:31 AM (#589551 - in reply to #556753)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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1960fury - 2018-01-22 2:50 PM

that red primer is backed on by the factory. i wouldn't remove it, if not necessary! what ever you do you can't get better adhesion with any of the the new paints.


"baked" of course. Too bad some people know it better.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-10-31 6:33 AM
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luedi
Posted 2019-10-31 7:44 AM (#589552 - in reply to #589551)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		Rust under the Red Primer ...
Good some people know it better..
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1960fury
Posted 2019-10-31 11:59 AM (#589555 - in reply to #589552)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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luedi - 2019-10-31 7:44 AM

Rust under the Red Primer ...
Good some people know it better..


Nonsense, and you don't. No such thing, maybe a coupe of edges, small areas. I restore the cars for over 30 years and have seen alot.
The car is (or was) a VERY low mileage time capsule in a barn since 1967. I was bidding on it on ebay, contacted the seller. Original paint.

You mistake the rust-red primer for rust. You pictures tell the whole story, smooth factory baked on primer, no rust.
It is always sad when originality is needlessly destroyed, but it is a tragedy if it is an irreversible downgrade in quality at the same time.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-10-31 12:05 PM




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luedi
Posted 2019-10-31 12:34 PM (#589556 - in reply to #589555)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		Wow....30years
My paint shop is over 40 years in business...
They know the different from rust and primer
I would never criticize the work from people only
by a few photos....
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1960fury
Posted 2019-10-31 2:29 PM (#589558 - in reply to #589556)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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luedi - 2019-10-31 12:34 PM

Wow....30years
My paint shop is over 40 years in business...
They know the different from rust and primer


Yes? 40 years experience with these cars? Wow. Probably not and if that was the case even worse, because if they told you the smooth
even red layer under non bubbling original paint, that can be sanded of with no pitting to a shiny surface is rust,
they were either lying to you or are downright stupid. It is impossible that a car rusts that way and it is impossible that a very low mileage car
(IIRC 38k miles) that was stored inside since 1967 developes that rust and you know that.
Everyone here with experience restoring the unibody cars knows, this was the factory primer and not rust. Period.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-10-31 2:37 PM
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luedi
Posted 2019-10-31 2:56 PM (#589560 - in reply to #589558)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Hamburg-Germany		What do you mean you are
Now you said my brother lying and is stupid?
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1960fury
Posted 2019-10-31 3:17 PM (#589561 - in reply to #589560)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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luedi - 2019-10-31 2:56 PM

What do you mean you are
Now you said my brother lying and is stupid?


???

It was you who posted the red factory primer is rust. Make your own conclusions. Your brother has 40 years restoring FL's?
Never heard of him or his shop , I live not far from Hamburg. Anyway, it is your car and you can do with it whatever you want,
overrestore the hell out of a 38k miles (once) time capsule. Good bye.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-11-01 7:19 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-10-31 9:02 PM (#589566 - in reply to #556753)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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1960fury - 2018-01-22 11:50 AM

that red primer is backed on by the factory. i wouldn't remove it, if not necessary! what ever you do you can't get better adhesion with any of the the new paints.


I with you here, Sid. Removal of all the paint and primer down to bare metal wasn't likely necessary. I would doubt that the new primer is any better than the old baked on primer.

That said, it is luedi's car and he can do what he wants. We don't have to agree with him.



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-10-31 9:03 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2019-11-01 7:17 AM (#589581 - in reply to #589566)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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56D500boy - 2019-10-31 9:02 PM

1960fury - 2018-01-22 11:50 AM

that red primer is backed on by the factory. i wouldn't remove it, if not necessary! what ever you do you can't get better adhesion with any of the the new paints.


I with you here, Sid. Removal of all the paint and primer down to bare metal wasn't likely necessary. I would doubt that the new primer is any better than the old baked on primer.

That said, it is luedi's car and he can do what he wants. We don't have to agree with him.

:)


I know what I'm talking about. I did some extensive testing with the factory baked on primer (that can't be done in a paint booth)
and the new "environment friendly" new crappy paints for repaints or even factory paint on new cars. The red baked on Mopar factory primer
is like galvanized, no comparison with new paints. Of course we don't have to agree with him, it is unfortunately his car, but we don't have
to buy the fairytale that there was an even layer of rust under the unmolested smooth factory paint. Everyone here knows this is BS.
The car was a 38K miles, 50 years indoor storage time capsule.
Too bad the nicest cars always end up in the wrong hands.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-11-01 7:20 AM
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57burb
Posted 2019-11-01 5:54 PM (#589592 - in reply to #589581)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: DFW, TX		Sheesh. Looks like the car is coming along very nicely. The primer would have been a good base, but I don't think there's any issue with bringing a car down to metal. Some people don't want to deal with contamination from layers below. (and yes I know what sealer does )

I really like the side trim they put on that car, really makes it look like a Desoto! Enjoy
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luedi
Posted 2019-11-09 8:11 AM (#589939 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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luedi
Posted 2019-11-25 12:27 PM (#590725 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: RE: 1960 desoto diplomat



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wizard
Posted 2019-11-25 12:38 PM (#590728 - in reply to #538226)
Subject: Re: 1960 desoto diplomat



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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island		Looks great! Keep up the good work.
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