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'57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-07-02 2:18 AM (#543336)
Subject: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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I noticed that my '57 Windsor 4dr Sedan built in Detroit has a different cowl design than my '57 New Yorker 2dr hardtop built in Los Angeles. The vent mechanism on the New Yorker is removable, whereas it is built as part of the firewall on the Windsor. Also, the cowl drains have 2 mounting holes in them on the Windsor, whereas the New Yorker doesn't. The cowl drip guard is also VERY different. The New Yorker version is a simple, single piece of bent sheet metal, whereas the Windsor version is much more complicated and heavy, consisting of a bunch of parts spot welded together with a strange folded piece of metal at the underside of it. I checked my '58 New Yorker 2dr hardtop built in Detroit and it was similar to the Windsor 4dr sedan. So I am guessing that these differences are either an early vs. late build or a Detroit vs. Los Angeles build. Does anyone know why they might have made the drip guard so complicated on the Detroit version? It doesn't seem to need to be complicated like that.

But I am thinking of using the Detroit drip guard in the New Yorker because it looks a little thinner so that it would let more air into the cabin when the vent is open.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-07-02 2:26 AM




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(57CalHardtop.jpg)



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Attachments 57DetroitSedan.jpg (157KB - 16 downloads)
Attachments 57CalHardtop.jpg (113KB - 18 downloads)
Attachments DripGuardDifferences1.jpg (180KB - 16 downloads)
Attachments DripGuardDifferences2.jpg (95KB - 16 downloads)
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StillOutThere
Posted 2017-07-02 7:37 AM (#543345 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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Location: Under the X in Texas
There are differences between AC and non AC firewalls.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-07-02 12:04 PM (#543362 - in reply to #543345)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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Do you know what the differences are? I wouldn't expect this Windsor 4dr sedan to have A/C, and I don't think that my New Yorker had it either, although it did have an aftermarket unit in there. And neither of these cars had the special air box.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-07-02 12:06 PM
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2017-07-02 2:12 PM (#543369 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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I don't believe that the build difference has anything to do with A/C v/s non-A/C...it has to do with early v/s late build differences. They changed the firewall vent design, to incorporate the vent housing in, and eliminate steps in the build process. They also improved the drip shields, and the drain design for the heater/air box.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-07-02 3:35 PM (#543376 - in reply to #543369)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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So do you think that there would be an improvement of some kind if I were to install the newer drip guard? It is so much more complicated than the other one, but I don't really know what improvement it would make other than being less wide to possibly let more air into the vent.
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2017-07-02 3:58 PM (#543378 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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The only reason that I can think of, as to why the Detroit version might have been more complicated, is that the "eastern" cars would have seen MUCH more rain/snow than the California-built cars, and would have needed better water protection. The Canadian-built cars here use the more complicated shield, with the rubber, etc.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-07-02 5:29 PM (#543385 - in reply to #543362)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences


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Powerflite - 2017-07-02 12:04 PM

Do you know what the differences are? I wouldn't expect this Windsor 4dr sedan to have A/C, and I don't think that my New Yorker had it either, although it did have an aftermarket unit in there. And neither of these cars had the special air box.


The 57 Cal hardtop cowl is suitable for factory a/c and the Detroit sedan cowl is not. The entire fresh air door assembly for the Cal hardtop is screwed to the cowl and those same screw holes are used to fasten an a/c evaporator housing to the cowl if required.

Greg
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2017-07-02 7:03 PM (#543388 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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But...if that's the case, then why do the '57 Windsors built in Canada, have the screw-in fresh air door assembly? A/C wasn't available from the factory, on Canuck built cars...
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-07-02 8:34 PM (#543391 - in reply to #543388)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences


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miquelonbrad - 2017-07-02 7:03 PM

But...if that's the case, then why do the '57 Windsors built in Canada, have the screw-in fresh air door assembly? A/C wasn't available from the factory, on Canuck built cars...


I guess some do and some don't. I never saw any pattern to it regardless of where they were built. It wasn't an early or late thing because 58 was the same mixed bag.

Greg
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-07-02 10:58 PM (#543396 - in reply to #543391)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences


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LD3 Greg - 2017-07-02 8:34 PM

miquelonbrad - 2017-07-02 7:03 PM

But...if that's the case, then why do the '57 Windsors built in Canada, have the screw-in fresh air door assembly? A/C wasn't available from the factory, on Canuck built cars...


I guess some do and some don't. I never saw any pattern to it regardless of where they were built. It wasn't an early or late thing because 58 was the same mixed bag.

Greg


For example, my CDN built 58 Custom Royal sedan had an A/C cowl and my Detroit built Regal Lancer did not!!

Greg
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2017-07-03 1:10 AM (#543406 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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Ok, I looked at some of my pictures tonight, and compared them to the parts book and A/C drawings...I think I see the reason for the "removable" air door assembly. If you have A/C, the automatic recirculation door replaces the fresh air door.
Weird that Canadian cars would come built with an A/C adaptable cowl, when it wasn't available.

Also means that I will have to cut out the welded in fresh air door, from the Detroit-built donor body, that I am using on my 2 door build. I have a factory A/C set-up to go in it.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-07-03 2:34 AM (#543410 - in reply to #543406)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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I just checked all of my cars/parts to see what they have. The drain design with the 2 mounting holes is definitely a late-early feature. The later versions used these 2 holes to mount the flaps, but the earlier ones had no holes. This is irrespective of the cowl vent design. But the removable cowl vent design does seem very random. There is no pattern that I can see to it. Here are the results in descending order of build serial number/date. All are 2dr hardtops except the one indicated and none of these cars came with factory A/C.

'58 New Yorker, Detroit, Non-removable, 2 hole drains
'58 Firedome, Detroit, Non-removable, 2 hole drains
'58 Coronet, Los Angeles, Non-removable, 2 hole drains
'57 Windsor 4dr sedan, Detroit, Non-removable, 2 hole drains
'57 Windsor, Detroit, Removable, 0 hole drains
'57 Windsor, Los Angeles, Non-removable, 0 hole drains
'57 New Yorker, Los Angeles, Removable, 0 hole drains

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miquelonbrad
Posted 2017-07-03 2:35 PM (#543455 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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Ok, I've done a check on all my 57-58 cars (parts/restoration) and have come to the conclusion that there was no rhyme or reason as to removable/non-removable fresh air vent. But I will conclude that the drain assembly was a early/later production change. All early '57's have the "drain tube" and metal insert, with no holes. The later '57s and '58s all have the holes, with the simple flap.

I've *tried* to keep them in order, as to production dates, but since the data on production dates for Canadian-built cars was not kept, I'm guessing by serial number, and drain design.

1958 DeSoto Fireflite 4dr sedan, Detroit, non-removable, 2 hole drains
1958 Chrysler Windsor 4dr sedan, Windsor, non-removable, 2 hole drains
1957 Chrysler Windsor 2dr, Windsor, non-removable, 2 hole drains
1957 Dodge Regent 4 dr sedan, Windsor, Removable, 2 hole drains
1957 Chrysler Windsor 2dr, Detroit, Non-removable, 2 hole drains
1957 Chrysler Windsor 4dr sedan, Windsor, Removable, 0 hole drains
1957 Chrysler Windsor 2dr, Windsor, Removable, 0 hole drains
1957 Plymouth Savoy 2dr sedan, Windsor, Removable, 0 hole drain
1957 Chrysler New Yorker 4dr hardtop, Detroit, Non-removable, 0 hole drains
1957 DeSoto Fireflite 4dr sedan, Detroit, Removable, 0 hole drains (car has A/C)
1957 Plymouth Belvedere 4dr sedan, Windsor, Removable, 0 hole drains
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ToMopar
Posted 2017-07-04 2:53 AM (#543482 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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Brad,

you have done a detective job!
I own a 57 Flite Wagon, and I have two reliable evidence, that i have an early 57 Car. And it has the holes with flap.
Maybe the time calculation works differently on Wagon Bodys.



(1402017966.jpg)



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Attachments 1402017966.jpg (86KB - 15 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-10-04 5:11 PM (#549767 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences


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the removable design has the "weakness" and potential leakage

If you think about where the water sits, its sits at the bottom of the removable piece and inside that lip, my car had an insane amount of the sealant tape in that area.

They must have had leaking issues very quickly and engineers said "weld it up" please and eliminate that lip.

I will take extreme action in that area, its best to eliminate the lip so that it can drain freely but if you fill it up completely with good seam sealer water shouldn't be able to sit and potentially leak.

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LostDeere59
Posted 2017-10-04 5:40 PM (#549770 - in reply to #549767)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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Something else you aren't considering is simply parts availability.

Even today there are often subtle differences in components manufactured to the same specification by different vendors.

So, which precise design a particular car was fitted with simply depends on which suppliers parts happen to be "in the chute" when the car is built.

What can confuse this even further is that sometimes vendors can be generally regional - so the factory on the west coast tends to receive a certain part from vendor A, while east coast cars tend to get parts from vendor B. But if vendor B has an availability issue (other work, late order, delivery issue, etc) then the east coast cars may well get parts from vendor A. A vehicle manufacturer will outsource small parts to multiple vendors for just that reason - they certainly can't afford to stop an assembly line because a vendor had a bad week . . .

I see this on the cars I work on every day from time to time - supposedly identical parts from different suppliers that look different, but function essentially the same.


Gregg
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springsweptwing
Posted 2017-10-04 7:03 PM (#549780 - in reply to #549770)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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Hi Brad,

Would you have a paid of those drain tubes for sale?

Thanks Paul.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-10-04 7:32 PM (#549782 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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Location: So. California
I believe you can get them from Gary Goers.
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springsweptwing
Posted 2017-10-05 8:56 AM (#549808 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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Gary goers just give up with him, how you supposed to deal with someone who will not reply to you, I have money to spend with him but don't know how much to pay, what do you do just send him a big amount of cash and hope hope for the best?
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-10-05 2:29 PM (#549823 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences


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yeah pretty much. Seems inefficient but hey.

I actually got a response about the rear antennas and they replied they are out of gaskets and tips so I am making some.

I would email a list of what you want and see if its available. I heard your supposed to add 10% to everything also. I would confirm that in the email.
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springsweptwing
Posted 2017-10-05 6:58 PM (#549841 - in reply to #549823)
Subject: Re: '57-'58 Chrysler Cowl Differences



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mikes2nd - 2017-10-05 7:29 PM

yeah pretty much. Seems inefficient but hey.

I actually got a response about the rear antennas and they replied they are out of gaskets and tips so I am making some.

I would email a list of what you want and see if its available. I heard your supposed to add 10% to everything also. I would confirm that in the email.


Don't really want to send over $4K and not know what's happening

On another note not to take up Nathan's post with Gary,


there are also differences in the top part of the cowl where the supports brackets bolt to for the inner fenders 57 does not have the indentations for the captive nuts?


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