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Location: northern germany | for those with high mileage engines and/or restrictive exhaust systems that don't like oily valve covers, i thought i share. works great. and btw completely eliminated the slow hot starting problem i had. i have a very high mileage engine and the oily blowby oiled down my starter motor. i didn't know that was the cause of the so called starter "heat soak" on my engine. made out of a cheap small aluminum donut pan.
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Extreme Veteran
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| Can be modified from inside the valve cover also to prevent splashed oil from getting to the breather. There are also aftermarket breathers that allow the oil to flow back into the cover instead of out the breather. Just depends on what you want to do and how you want to do it. If that simple thing solved your problem then awesome. Nice job with a cheap easy fix! |
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Location: northern germany | i found it difficult to modifie the vc to prevent oil from going to the breather. if i would have added a mesh or someting, this would have probably made thinks worse. also i'm not aware of any other breathers that fit OE fl valvecovers. do you have a link of that aftermarket breathers that prevent oil on the vc's? i might use that on my other cars |
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Location: Netherlands | About the mesh, instead of using the factory type 'scrubbing' mech, how about fitting a simple strainer/mesh inside the tube to catch the oil vapour and turn it into droplets?
http://sg-live-03.slatic.net/p/3/the-guile-foundation-island-304-st... |
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Location: Netherlands | Googling "oil filter mesh" gives plenty ideas to work something out as well perhaps.
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Location: northern germany | BigBlockMopar - 2017-07-18 2:49 PM
About the mesh, instead of using the factory type 'scrubbing' mech, how about fitting a simple strainer/mesh inside the tube to catch the oil vapour and turn it into droplets?
yes, i was thinking about that but i thought it might makes things worse as it would trap oil and under wot it would act like a soap bubble "thing". i believe the way i tackled it, is the only, or at least the easiest, way with the oe breather.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-18 4:24 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Hilltown, PA | Have used these in the past on both my own and some customer cars. While meant for racing applications they can provide some additional negative pressure and subsequent scavenging on high mileage engines.
http://www.jegs.com/i/RPC/707/R2050/10002/-1?CAWELAID=2300061800027...
Are you currently running a PCV system? Is it clear and functioning if you are?
If not I would retrofit that first.
Another option is to use this type of breather and connect the hose to the air cleaner, thereby sending the excessive crankcase vapors back into the intake.
Gregg
Edited by LostDeere59 2017-07-20 4:27 PM
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Location: northern germany | LostDeere59 - 2017-07-20 4:24 PM
Are you currently running a PCV system?
Gregg
certainly not. over the years there have been a couple of heated discussions about that. i made my point of view clear. i will never run something that feeds my engine with hot (mostly) exhaust gasses. |
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Location: Netherlands | The PCV-system where engine fumes are vented into the exhaustsystem is indeed 'mostly' a racing thing on cars without restrictive mufflers. Works quite well and also aids in pistonring seal.
The system is however less effective when mufflers are downstream.
I kinda share the same views about feading an engine its own dirty fumes again... Not helping the engine's life span and oily fumes can/will also cause pinging.
Although on some engines, a good working PCV system can aid in preventing engine leaks around the rear main seal and oil pan.
The 318 in my daily driven '73 Dart will start to leak oil if the PCV system is disconnected or a valve with not enough flow is installed.
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| You can use a oil separator or a oil catch can if you want to clean the air pretty well before being put back in. Its more about the pressure being the problem.
These cars used road draft tubes... dumps constant oil gunk all over the car and stinks. They don't work at low speed.
without a pcv valve your crankcase will be under pressure, this is not a desired situation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_ventilation_system
Your removing condensation, oil/gas vapor and some exhaust gas.
I am using a pcv and a breather on my hemi. they don't do much under wot but your breather will push when that happens. Coming off wot the pcv will "clean" up inside the engine.
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| here is how the exhaust dumper works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw1EPnEoHJM
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| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KrSn3BoeLE
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Location: northern germany | mikes2nd - 2017-07-20 9:26 PM
Your removing condensation, oil/gas vapor and some exhaust gas.
removing? no, feeding your engine with it. not a good idea. try to ignite blowby. it wont. its mostly exhaust gas and it heats the intake charge, for maximum efficiency the intake charge has to be as cool as possible. cooler air equals more oxygen. cooler air=more complete combustion=more power/better mileage. simple fact.
my engine when run with a pcv runs noticeable rougher at idle and there is alot more blowby at higher engine speeds/wot. pcv has been forced upon passenger cars starting in 61 in CA. engineers hated it.
hot exhaust gas as a benefit for the intake charge? why not routing the exhaust directly back to the intake manifold? those who believe in pcv probably also believe in a perpetuum mobile.
my engine at least never had a pcv and will never use one as long as i live. its still going strong at over 330 000 miles.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-21 8:41 AM
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Location: Netherlands | This happens when pcv is still used as designed on well seasoned engines with quite some blowby;
I've had an engine that had intake valves like these.
Port diameter was effectively halved in size and serverely hindering mixture flow.
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Location: Hilltown, PA | 1960 Fury, all I can say is you and I are going to have to agree to disagree.
I'm not going to try to change the hardened thumbnail opinion of someone else - I'm too old, and have dealt with too many individuals of that ilk. (Seems like cars and firefighting collect them like warts on the wicked witch). I know the engineering and applications of the things I recommend, and that includes a full understanding of both the positive and negative aspects of not only the modification, but the basic system itself.
PCV systems have many positive benefits which far outweigh any negative effects.
I'm not impugning your right to your ideas, if its been working for you then obviously you're going to stick with it.
I'm a new member here, and a past member of numerous boards in the automotive field. I have no wish to offend anyone, or get caught in arguments over trivial matters. I offer my advice based on over 30 years of professional experience, and a tad more as a hobbyist and participant in many fields of interest. Take it or leave it - no matter to me.
Gregg
Edited by LostDeere59 2017-07-21 4:11 PM
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Location: Hilltown, PA |
Big Block - deposits like those on high mileage engines are typically NOT related to PCV use, but excessive oil passing both the valve guide seals and the guides themselves. There are different issues on modern engines (EGR, cam timing, dry intake ports, etc.) but even now guides and seals are a primary causal factor.
Gregg |
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Location: Netherlands | I agree that worn valve guides are also a cause of carbon buildup as well, but it doesn't really matter how the oil enters the intake, any oil fed onto a hot intake valve will buildup over time.
Newer cars/engines also have these issues I've noticed.
I don't think there's an argument present that says that a PCV system is bad as such. Disposing crankcase fumes is a good thing.
Although feeding it back into the intake is frowned on, because it makes the engine even more less efficient.
Feeding crankcase fumes directly back into the exhaust system is a 'better' option for the engine.
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| I guess the pcv haters don't know what a catch can or oil separator is? if you blowing oil, the catch can is great for that. The exhaust venturi vent valve isn't a bad idea also. It will put the oil in the exhaust so it will smoke and fill you muffler if you blow by has alot of oil in it. The pcv valve is about emissions and it does have good benefits as well as drawbacks. If you drive a car tons of miles it has drawbacks as it can need cleaning and cause carbon buildup ill stick with keeping my seals and oil in the engine... the smart choice is a pcv valve or vacuum pump. if you want to be original thats fine, keep the road draft tube. i dont want to ride in that car or behind it though. most here admit its not robbing power, if any thing its very minor any real engine tuner or builder will insist on a pcv valve on a normal engine https://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/tech-section/9961-pcv-valve-horsepower-robber
Edited by mikes2nd 2017-07-21 7:15 PM
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Location: northern germany | LostDeere59 - 2017-07-21 4:04 PM
1960 Fury, all I can say is you and I are going to have to agree to disagree.
Fine, but the laws of physics that I posted remain the same. And I believe at 330+ k miles and a perfect running engine (never rebuild/heads never off, perfect oil pressure, no unusual noises) that still revs to 6k, goes easily beyond 120 and in sub 6 sec to 62 mph I believe the absence of a pcv didn't do too much damage 
I also believe with 29.5 absolutely engine troublefree years driving this car almost daily I know very well how to keep it running reliable and effecient.
And even if the smartest brains on planet earth tell me that a perpetuum mobile works, I'm not gonna buy it and always let common sense prevail. Thats why I'm still driving it.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-22 8:06 AM
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Location: Hilltown, PA | "That's why I'm still driving it."
That, my friend, is the most important part of the whole shebang 
Gregg |
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| of course the world would be great without crankcase blow by pressure and emissions and carbon build up. Your essentially using a catch can modern pcv valves work quite well and provide more benefits than drawbacks and riding behind your car isn't a nightmare for those people. I can understand they type of people who don't care about what the guy behind him is experiencing. Again this is about cars that are old, rings shot etc that are making alot of blow by. Id be suprised if your 330k engine isnt putting some kind of blow by out that breather.
Edited by mikes2nd 2017-07-22 10:04 AM
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Location: N.W. Fla. | 1960fury - 2017-07-20 4:02 PM
. i will never run something that feeds my engine with hot (mostly) exhaust gasses. You seem to be confusing a PCV valve with EGR, EGR pumps ex fumes into the intake. PCV is called positive crankcase ventilation for a reason, it sucks nasty fume, condensation, ect out of the crankcase. A lot better for the oil, preventing sludge, ect. |
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Location: N.W. Fla. | BigBlockMopar - 2017-07-21 2:44 PM
This happens when pcv is still used as designed on well seasoned engines with quite some blowby;
I've had an engine that had intake valves like these.
Port diameter was effectively halved in size and serverely hindering mixture flow.
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Location: northern germany | Mopar1 - 2017-07-25 8:00 PM
1960fury - 2017-07-20 4:02 PM
. i will never run something that feeds my engine with hot (mostly) exhaust gasses. You seem to be confusing a PCV valve with EGR, EGR pumps ex fumes into the intake. PCV is called positive crankcase ventilation for a reason, it sucks nasty fume, condensation, ect out of the crankcase. A lot better for the oil, preventing sludge, ect.
well, no. those hot "nasty fumes" are fed into the intake manifold or air cleaner hsg so they end up in the combustion chamber.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-26 9:14 AM
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Location: So. Cal | I couldn't even enjoy driving my '58 DeSoto because of the blowby that it was spewing at idle. My '58 Dodge has much less, but even that one would be much more enjoyable with a PCV setup. I was choking on the oil fumes from the 361 and the cars next to me were choking on it. Then I installed a PCV setup on it and all was perfect. No noticeable detriment to the motor, power or ignition. But I do run an HEI ignition system that is hotter than most with larger plug gaps. So although I agree with the potential detrimental "physics" of the situation, experience shows that it isn't very bad compared to the alternative which can get to be nearly unbearable. What good is an ounce of extra power if you can't stand driving it? I'm putting a PCV on all my cars for my own benefit; and what the heck, for the benefit of the environment too. It doesn't cost me much in terms of performance (=unnoticeable), so I will gladly do it. I haven't tried just routing it to the side of the air cleaner. That might be sufficient and not require a pull from the engine vacuum. But as stated before, applying a vacuum to the crankcase has it's own benefit too, so I will probably just continue to do that. That said, I'm sure that you, Sid, will continue to not run one, and that's OK by me too. Your catcher seems like a better alternative to not having anything. |
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| good read here but these are high performance racing engines.
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine/tech-crankcase-pressur...
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Location: northern germany | Powerflite - 2017-07-26 10:20 PM
I couldn't even enjoy driving my '58 DeSoto because of the blowby that it was spewing at idle. My '58 Dodge has much less, but even that one would be much more enjoyable with a PCV setup. I was choking on the oil fumes from the 361 and the cars next to me were choking on it. Then I installed a PCV setup on it and all was perfect. No noticeable detriment to the motor, power or ignition.
do you drive a convertible? engine fumes actually can't reach the interior with a cowl seal, rustfree body and a sealed firewall. so you are saying you were choking on it and the cars next to you too and in the same breath you are saying you routed that messy fumes that choked your entire environment directly into the intake manifold (combustion camber) "without a noticeable detriment in power". sorry, that is not possible. maybe YOU didn't notice it but your engine is suffering.
my 383 blowby is not nearly as bad as you described, i do not smell it at idle, but my engine runs noticeable rougher at idle with a pcv and at WOT or higher engine speeds there is alot more blowby. feeding hot exhaust gases back into the combustion chamber WILL have a negative effect on engine efficiency and power, it can't be any other way.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-27 9:21 AM
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Location: northern germany |
quote from that article:
"Not only does a properly operating PCV system reduce the overall emissions output of a vehicle while at the same time not sacrificing horsepower"
you can find all sorts of "information" in the www, if you search long enough you can find proof that the earth is a disk. f.i. some time ago i found a very scientifically written article about why ram air can't work. everyone knows it does work, as proven again and again.
AGAIN, blowby is mostly exhaust gas. the result of burning fossil fuels is carbon monoxide/co2 the same stuff used in fire extinguishers. blowby does NOT ignite and it is HOT to boot. so if you are replacing part of the intake charge, that should be as cool as possible, with HOT exhaust gases/carbon monoxide the result WILL be reduced efficiency and power. it CAN'T be any other way.
i wish i could find the article in a 1960-62 magazine about the mandatory use of PCV's in california cars in 61. the SAE protested and didn't like it for above mentioned reasons. but these were they days when common sense still ruled, before the environment nazis took over.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-27 9:22 AM
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| Engine fumes will reach especially with these cars, their seals are not perfect in any way and yes you will fog out anyone behind(if more blow by) you also but you don't seem like the type to care what anyone else suffers. There are many now days who enjoy to see others bothered or suffering.
Your way overblowing the amount of exhaust gas being put out under normal conditions through a pcv, you act like your putting your whole exhaust pipe back down your engine.
And the guys at engine labs know ALOT more than you and I and they are correct. If you think they are saying something impossible I suggest you do more research.
"Not only does a properly operating PCV system reduce the overall emissions output of a vehicle while at the same time not sacrificing horsepower"
But yes, this is true, sorry to break it to you. It's been proven time and time again. You claiming this is somehow some stupid myth like the earth is flat is absurd. Go watch the video of the CTS-V and these are 650 hp supercharged engines. I will still run an catch can and a pcv and see if I get much oil. http://youtu.be/Y9klkDCItEY
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Location: So. Cal | 1960fury - 2017-07-27 5:36 AM
do you drive a convertible? engine fumes actually can't reach the interior with a cowl seal, rustfree body and a sealed firewall. so you are saying you were choking on it and the cars next to you too and in the same breath you are saying you routed that messy fumes that choked your entire environment directly into the intake manifold (combustion camber) "without a noticeable detriment in power". sorry, that is not possible. maybe YOU didn't notice it but your engine is suffering.
my 383 blowby is not nearly as bad as you described, i do not smell it at idle, but my engine runs noticeable rougher at idle with a pcv and at WOT or higher engine speeds there is alot more blowby. feeding hot exhaust gases back into the combustion chamber WILL have a negative effect on engine efficiency and power, it can't be any other way.
Not a convertible... I just had the windows down. I didn't think that would be difficult to discern. But my DeSoto is by no means rust free either!  Other cars had their windows down too until they smelt the fumes exhuming from my vehicle; at which point they rolled them up in disgust. I actually agree with you Sid, that it is a detriment; but the fact is that it isn't a very noticeable detriment. I don't know why you seem to notice it more than I do, but there is seriously no noticeable difference in performance when I hooked it up, and a huge difference in enjoyment. Maybe your motor is not sealed very well so that you end up with a vacuum leak??
Edited by Powerflite 2017-07-27 1:47 PM
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Location: Muskego, WI | Modern cars with improved seals are not perfect, let alone 50 to 60 year old cars. Hell, I can tell when the person driving in front of me is smoking a cigarette, even if I have my windows up and we're cruising at 60 mph. But regardless of whether having PCV is considerate to other drivers or better for the environment, I think you're missing the point. If there is no evacuation system, all that hot exhaust and oil vapor that we're all so worried about is just hanging around the crank case and other areas of the engine. I've been working on old cars my whole life and I've opened up valve covers and crank cases on a lot of old engines. The engines without a PCV system have ALWAYS been, without a doubt, the sludgiest by far. If you want to keep the harmful crap out of your engine, get some sort of evacuation system. If you don't want to pump it back into the intake, fine, but get a vacuum pump and air-oil separator. |
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Location: northern germany | jboymechanic - 2017-07-27 2:17 PM
Modern cars with improved seals are not perfect, let alone 50 to 60 year old cars. Hell, I can tell when the person driving in front of me is smoking a cigarette, even if I have my windows up and we're cruising at 60 mph. But regardless of whether having PCV is considerate to other drivers or better for the environment, I think you're missing the point. If there is no evacuation system, all that hot exhaust and oil vapor that we're all so worried about is just hanging around the crank case and other areas of the engine. I've been working on old cars my whole life and I've opened up valve covers and crank cases on a lot of old engines. The engines without a PCV system have ALWAYS been, without a doubt, the sludgiest by far. If you want to keep the harmful crap out of your engine, get some sort of evacuation system. If you don't want to pump it back into the intake, fine, but get a vacuum pump and air-oil separator.
not my experience and i'm working on old cars for 30 years. i once got an engine running that has been run with the blowby routed back to just one intake runner, not the carb or a/c hsg. that cylinders valve was totaly gummed up, so was the intake passage in the head. this is what you get with a pcv, its only more noticeable when its hooked up to just one cylinder.
my engine that i ran almost daily for the past 29 years without the PCV crap (which makes it instantly running rougher when hot) accumulated absolutely no sludge in the oil pan in the past almost 30 years. just checked that. there are carbon deposits on the rockers but thats how i got it and it didn't get any worse.
the key is quality (synthetic) oil, good adjustment, a heat riser, regular oil changes and to let it always warm up to operating temperature. anyway, believe what you want, i repeat what i said above:
I believe at 330+ k miles and a perfect running engine (never rebuild/heads never off, perfect oil pressure, no unusual noises) that still revs to 6k, goes easily beyond 120 and in sub 6 sec to 62 mph I believe the absence of a pcv didn't do too much damage.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-27 6:35 PM
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Location: northern germany | mikes2nd - 2017-07-27 9:50 AM
Engine fumes will reach especially with these cars, their seals are not perfect in any way and yes you will fog out anyone behind(if more blow by) you also but you don't seem like the type to care what anyone else suffers. There are many now days who enjoy to see others bothered or suffering.
what a nonsense. totaly brainwashed by the green nazis and just like them you start with insults when out of arguments. now i'm someone who likes to see other people suffering? what makes you think so? do you have a mental problem?
your next statement is:
mikes2nd - 2017-07-27 9:50 AM
Your way overblowing the amount of exhaust gas being put out under normal conditions through a pcv, you act like your putting your whole exhaust pipe back down your engine.
but i'm "fogging out" people behind me just with blowby... yeah, not the exhaust, its blowby, i'm "fogging out" people with blowby.... no need to answer the question about your mental state.
i just run my car the most efficient way, thats why its still around at 330k miles and running it efficiently is the most environment friendly way. without my care and knowledge it would have been gone and turned into a new car 3 times many years ago. thats when the environment suffers most. sorry, only an idiot can believe that a car runs better when you route hot exhaust gases back into the combustion chamber. thats not an insult, its a fact.
my car puts alot of smiles on peoples faces over here. if my car would make its immediate environment "suffer" it would be me who's most effected. don't you agree? i'm not suffering at all. in fact i'm healthy as a horse and at 48 i'm build and fitter than any teenager
Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-27 5:30 PM
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Location: N.W. Fla. | So, to get more power out of a new Challenger delete the PCV system & install a puke tube..... |
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Location: Beaumont TX | I have a 1955 Plymouth Savoy 259 VI and I have an issue with the crankcase breather on the back of the engine leaking oil on the garage floor. My engine has been rebuilt and I don't think it has a lot of blowby. Is it normal for oil to drip from these breathers? Has anyone put a mist screen anywhere in one of these engines to catch some of the oil? |
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Location: Perth Australia | Not personally.
I myself went the PCV road and apart from a minor "misting" of oil over time on the rocker cover, I never had an issue.
If you want to try and stop the oil coming out a bit, the suggestions at the top of this thread could work, but I think
that with positive engine crank case pressure, it will still blow the droplets out onto your rocker cover and down the draft tube.
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Location: Beaumont TX | Thanks Michael,
I think it will too. The cam cover pan has a pretty big disengaging space for the oil to fall out before the vapors go out the tube in the back of the engine. I'm wondering if you could put some of those stainless steel scouring pads in this pan around the tube outlet to give the oil droplets a chance to collect and drop down. But I've been hesitant to try this because if something this simple would work, you wonder why Plymouth didn't install some kind of mist pad in the first place. I may have to go with a PVC system because it has a lot of advantages and is pretty easy. I just have not found a good place to connect to the air filter, or carburetor, or the intake manifold.
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Location: N.W. Fla. | ttotired - 2023-01-10 2:43 PM
Not personally.
I myself went the PCV road and apart from a minor "misting" of oil over time on the rocker cover, I never had an issue.
If you want to try and stop the oil coming out a bit, the suggestions at the top of this thread could work, but I think
that with positive engine crank case pressure, it will still blow the droplets out onto your rocker cover and down the draft tube.
Typically the PCV valve eliminates the tube...
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Breather modification
