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Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-10 8:20 PM (#554060)
Subject: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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When I got my 56 Dodge in Sept. 2016, the carpet that was in the car was not OE, it was thin and it was tattered. I removed it fairly quickly because it was just too ugly. Blue but ugly.

Recently I ordered carpet from Stock Interiors (supplied by ACC). They handle the area around the steering column by cutting big hole for the column and providing a slit fish the carpet around the column. All good until you (I) realize that there is nothing behind the carpet to protect it from rain, mud, engine fluids, etc. I think I know what to do but I am a little hampered by the fact I don't know how the OE carpet worked (because I never had any).

I think the big rubber grommet was supposed to do what I am looking for. However, if that is true I have a conflict between the carpet and that grommet.

Here are some photos from today's investigations of the situation.





(AfterMarketCarpetSteeringColumnInteractions_1.jpg)



(AfterMarketCarpetSteeringColumnInteractions_2.jpg)



(AfterMarketCarpetSteeringColumnInteractions_3.jpg)



(AfterMarketCarpetSteeringColumnInteractions_4.jpg)



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Attachments AfterMarketCarpetSteeringColumnInteractions_1.jpg (240KB - 119 downloads)
Attachments AfterMarketCarpetSteeringColumnInteractions_2.jpg (246KB - 127 downloads)
Attachments AfterMarketCarpetSteeringColumnInteractions_3.jpg (227KB - 126 downloads)
Attachments AfterMarketCarpetSteeringColumnInteractions_4.jpg (168KB - 125 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-11 9:04 PM (#554122 - in reply to #554060)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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Here is a photo taken today, from the engine bay side of the steering column/inspection plate situation showing how, at this point, the carpet will be very vulnerable to contamination and/or water, to say nothing of lack of "fire wall". Surely (don't call me Shirley), that is not how the carpet steering column interaction was designed. I must be missing something.

Be assured that somehow, this is not the way that I will be installing the carpet. How I am not sure, but it won't be like this.

Note to self: You still need to seal one edge of the X-Mat High profile you put on the inspection plate Dave. I can see it in the photo, exposed foam (not really an issue but I said that I would seal the edges so I will).

This is what the factory seal looks like from the passenger compartment (without carpet). Looks feasible - if you ignore the carpet:



*BUT* this is the real situation from the engine bay side, totally exposed carpet:



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-12-12 1:39 AM




(AfterMarketCarpetSteeringColumnInteractions_FromTheEngineBaySide.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-12 1:41 AM (#554136 - in reply to #554122)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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I do have most of that EDPM rubber plumbing roof vent rubber left from my taillight gasket experiments. Might have to try it out (a split would be required but that could be taped up.

One of these (I think the hole is about 3" in diameter):



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-12-12 1:42 AM
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LostDeere59
Posted 2017-12-12 12:21 PM (#554162 - in reply to #554060)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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I'm not sure what the arrangement on your car would have been originally since I am not directly familiar with it. However a few things come to mind. First, shrinkage. The rubber column seal you have may not be quite the same shape and size it was originally. Second, thoroughness of design. Back in the 50's keeping out "most" of the engine compartment stuff was probably considered acceptable, and if the carpet did some of that work, just as well.

Like you I would prefer a good dependable seal between the floor and the column, to be followed by something to keep the carpet properly positioned around the column.

Unless someone else familiar with the factory set-up lends some advice I think you'll be fabricating your own best solution - as usual


Gregg
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-12 7:52 PM (#554192 - in reply to #554162)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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LostDeere59 - 2017-12-12 12:21 PM
Like you I would prefer a good dependable seal between the floor and the column, to be followed by something to keep the carpet properly positioned around the column.
Unless someone else familiar with the factory set-up lends some advice I think you'll be fabricating your own best solution - as usual
Gregg


Thanks Gregg. I am still hoping to find so photo of what the factory did (good or bad). In the meantime, I found my Waterline brand EPDM roof flashing piece (that I bought to make taillight gaskets out of). I've only nibbled a bit off it and there is more than plenty to solve this problem.

Mine is like this:

http://www.waterlineproducts.com/roof_vent_d_1.html



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swed57
Posted 2017-12-13 4:06 AM (#554203 - in reply to #554060)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column


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It looks like the carpet you have is made to lie on top of the rubber seal and it's not as original.
Unfortunately, there has been no original carpet in any of the cars I have. I have cut out the carpet like the hole in the floor and used the original rubber seal. I do not think it has been completely waterproof originals, only as "dust seal"
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-13 10:51 AM (#554213 - in reply to #554203)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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swed57 - 2017-12-13 4:06 AM
It looks like the carpet you have is made to lie on top of the rubber seal and it's not as original.
Unfortunately, there has been no original carpet in any of the cars I have. I have cut out the carpet like the hole in the floor and used the original rubber seal. I do not think it has been completely waterproof originals, only as "dust seal"


Thanks for the comments Per. I might just put the carpet over the dust seal instead of under it.

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DepsilonD
Posted 2017-12-13 2:36 PM (#554236 - in reply to #554060)
Subject: Re: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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That is probably the best idea Dave.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-13 8:02 PM (#554271 - in reply to #554213)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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56D500boy - 2017-12-13 10:51 AM
Thanks for the comments Per. I might just put the carpet over the dust seal instead of under it.
:)


DepsilonD - 2017-12-13 2:36 PM
That is probably the best idea Dave.


Before I make the final decision on carpet OVER the dust seal *OR* carpet UNDER the dust seal, I decided to see whether I could make a suitable rubber gasket from the EPDM rubber roof vent flashing. Nice(ish) afternoon (around 50 F and sunny(ish) so I got the car out. Removed the inspection plate and started whacking away at the roof vent flashing, trying to free-cut/trim it in the gap left by the inspection plate. Didn't work out (too floppy).

So I got out what is turning out to be my "Go To" template-making material: a large empty box of Raisin Bran. (I've kept several of these, they have lots of uses including as a moveable hand-held spray painting shield). So I started cutting the template to use on the rubber flashing. I didn't get very far because some old guy (older than me!!) stopped by out of the blue and wanted to inspect my car and chat (and admire is 2005 Mustang). That was fun(ish) but I didn't get done what I wanted to do before it got cold and dark(ish) again and I had to put the car back in the garage.

There's always tomorrow.

Making the cardboard Mark 1 template (I probably could have used the inspection plate to make part of the template but I didn't - the tricky bit is at the top where there is no inspection plate material - which is the problem):

(I think I will use the resulting rubber gasket even if I put the carpet over the so-called dust seal - it just seems like a good idea water-proofing-wise)



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-12-13 8:15 PM




(DaveFs56DodgeMakingATemplateForALargeRubberSteeringColumnInspectionPlateGasket.jpg)



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Attachments DaveFs56DodgeMakingATemplateForALargeRubberSteeringColumnInspectionPlateGasket.jpg (221KB - 131 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-13 9:04 PM (#554272 - in reply to #554271)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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56D500boy - 2017-12-13 8:02 PM
Before I make the final decision on carpet OVER the dust seal *OR* carpet UNDER the dust seal, I decided to see whether I could make a suitable rubber gasket from the EPDM rubber roof vent flashing.....
(I think I will use the resulting rubber gasket even if I put the carpet over the so-called dust seal - it just seems like a good idea water-proofing-wise)


Went through the 56 Dodge Shop manual to see if they had any comments or photos or diagrams showing the OE dust shield. I couldn't find anything. The closest I came was this brake pedal diagram that shows that there wasn't carpet padding up very high (where the dust shield would be attached). Information to digest but doesn't really help. Might imply that the dust shield went OVER the OE carpet.

I am going to put felty carpet padding on the footwell floor area but keep the X-Mat High Profile on the slanting upper bit (but no felty padding).

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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-14 8:59 PM (#554354 - in reply to #554272)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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56D500boy - 2017-12-13 8:02 PM
There's always tomorrow.
Making the cardboard Mark 1 template (I probably could have used the inspection plate to make part of the template but I didn't - the tricky bit is at the top where there is no inspection plate material - which is the problem):
(I think I will use the resulting rubber gasket even if I put the carpet over the so-called dust seal - it just seems like a good idea water-proofing-wise)


56D500boy - 2017-12-13 9:04 PM
Went through the 56 Dodge Shop manual to see if they had any comments or photos or diagrams showing the OE dust shield. I couldn't find anything. The closest I came was this brake pedal diagram that shows that there wasn't carpet padding up very high (where the dust shield would be attached). Information to digest but doesn't really help. Might imply that the dust shield went OVER the OE carpet.
I am going to put felty carpet padding on the footwell floor area but keep the X-Mat High Profile on the slanting upper bit (but no felty padding).


I hunted down and saved photos of 55 and 56 Dodge interior yesterday evening. Pretty much every one had the rubber dust shield OVER the carpet.

This afternoon, I carried on with making a template to cut the rubber roof vent gasket into a steering column/inspection plate gasket. I cut the rubber and it didn't turn out too bad (as shown in the photo(s) below. That said, it is S-L-O-W-L-Y sinking it that the dust shield was supposed to go OVER the carpet or rather the carpet was intended to fit into the groove in the underside of the dust shield. I tried the new "gasket" on the gap and it would work. HOWEVER, it will block the dust shield from sitting properly against the upper edge of the inspection plate opening.

Some photos from today, starting with the gap that is between the inspection plate and the firewall, also showing the inner edge of the dust shield where the carpet is probably supposed to fit. (This will require cutting the carpet with a squarish hole and eliminating the split and bound hole that ACC provides, as shown below.

I don't know if there is a compromise solution that keeps some aspects of the new rubber water shield while at the same time permitting the dust shield to fit properly in that gap.



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-12-14 9:06 PM




(AfterMarketCarpetSteeringColumnInteractions_2.jpg)



(DaveFs56DodgeShowingTheGapBetweenTheTopOfTheInspectionPlateAndTheFireWallAndSteeringColumn.jpg)



(DaveFs56DodgeShowingAnEPDMRubberRoofVentCutToFitUnderTheInspectionPlate.jpg)



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Attachments AfterMarketCarpetSteeringColumnInteractions_2.jpg (246KB - 120 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs56DodgeShowingTheGapBetweenTheTopOfTheInspectionPlateAndTheFireWallAndSteeringColumn.jpg (222KB - 130 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs56DodgeShowingAnEPDMRubberRoofVentCutToFitUnderTheInspectionPlate.jpg (179KB - 120 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-15 12:34 PM (#554384 - in reply to #554354)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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Finally found a photo where the carpet was installed OVER the dust shield. I think this is the way to go - provided I can get the steering column cover to fit through the carpet hole (and into the dust shield).





(55StRegisWithAfterMarketCarpetOVERTheDustshield.jpg)



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Attachments 55StRegisWithAfterMarketCarpetOVERTheDustshield.jpg (99KB - 115 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-16 5:49 PM (#554427 - in reply to #554384)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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I wish that I could see this better but it does look like the carpet over the dust shield and is going around the steering column cover.

1955 Chrysler 2dr hardtop

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56D500boy
Posted 2018-03-22 1:17 PM (#560307 - in reply to #554427)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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In the end, I decided to "armor" the inspection plate with a full rubber gasket and then install the dust shield to the top of the inspection panel (with my High Profile X-mat removed in that area).

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=66997&...



The metal tape is to keep the exhaust pipe heat from messing with the rubber gasket (I hope).

Then I installed the inspection panel to the floor board with new No. 14 hex-headed (7/16") captured washer screws. Then I sealed the new rubber gasket on the inspection panel to the steering column with "Big Stretch" rubberized caulking and foam backing rod. I left that to cure over night and then I installed the OE dust shield with mixed new and old hardware and some silicone caulking and duct tape at the edges. Then I used double-sided carpet tape to install the carpet padding to the floor board in the driver's footwell. I will install the carpet finally in the next few days with the carpet going over the dust shield and around the steering column, as shown below. (The steering column cover fits into the little groove in the OE dust shield as per its original intent/design.)

I don't mind the lack of visible dust shield.





Edited by 56D500boy 2018-03-22 1:21 PM
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dlyle
Posted 2018-03-23 12:16 PM (#560356 - in reply to #554060)
Subject: Re: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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Looks like it turned out great. Good work.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-03-24 1:13 AM (#560392 - in reply to #560356)
Subject: Re: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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dlyle - 2018-03-23 12:16 PM
Looks like it turned out great. Good work.


Thanks Doug. I am getting there and I think that I will be happy with the final product. I have to fight with the front piece a bit more though. I added padding on top of the transmission tunnel that has resulted in the kick-panel ends of the carpet pulling it a tad more than I wanted. I think that I can win the tug-of-war but it will take a bit of time.

I need to get this done so I can put the front seat back in and actually drive the car more than just around the block sitting on a plastic milk crate and a foam pad.

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sermey
Posted 2020-04-18 3:54 AM (#597028 - in reply to #554060)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column


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Dave, I like the many items you do by yourself. Mostly in high quality, long lasting and and even cheaper. A guide for all who are lacking some creativity and wants just NOS parts.

My compliment!  - SERGE -   ;)

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56D500boy
Posted 2020-04-18 10:47 AM (#597043 - in reply to #597028)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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sermey - 2020-04-18 12:54 AM Dave, I like the many items you do by yourself. Mostly in high quality, long lasting and and even cheaper. A guide for all who are lacking some creativity and wants just NOS parts.My compliment!  - SERGE -  


Thanks Serge. My standards are not as high as yours but I try.

Sometimes I win. Sometimes I almost win. But, regardless, I have fun and like to share the outcome (and the steps to get there) so the next person can learn from my efforts and hopefully improve on what I have (tried to) do.

Stay safe.


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hemidenis
Posted 2020-04-18 6:52 PM (#597056 - in reply to #554060)
Subject: Re: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column



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Dave, at this point you probably have a good understanding of how beneficial will be the concept of a flexible carpet as working material. Something more like a "quilt" as the original carpet actually was and nobody believe it. Lucky for me, my finding of this flexible carpet in my car, were confirmed last summer by one of most respected Chrysler 300 restorer. Carpet looks awesome BTW.

Edited by hemidenis 2020-04-18 6:54 PM
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22mafeja
Posted 2020-04-20 2:49 AM (#597104 - in reply to #597043)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column


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Here you can see how I did on my two 56 dodges. I think I cut the carpet so it didn`t show when you looked from the engine bay side and so it fit in the rubber seal as good as possible.
It was easy for me since I make my carpets out of the roll.

Edited by 22mafeja 2020-04-20 2:54 AM




(""ldre bilbilder 270fwl d56.JPG)



(DSCN0091fwl d56-2.JPG)



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Attachments ""ldre bilbilder 270fwl d56.JPG (32KB - 64 downloads)
Attachments DSCN0091fwl d56-2.JPG (57KB - 62 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2020-04-20 9:51 AM (#597110 - in reply to #554060)
Subject: RE: Issues with Carpet Installation and The Steering Column


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Hello Ralf!
I can see on the upper picture of your car a serial number starting from 426…
It is LA-built 1956 Dodge!
We have large discussion about optional codes, located on the cowl tag here:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=67614&...

… and here:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=69565&...

Can you post the picture of your cowl tag for our further exploration?

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