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3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby
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ronbo97
Posted 2018-02-13 7:47 PM (#558062)
Subject: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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With so many parts for our FL cars being made of 'unobtanium', it would be nice if FCA or an individual with deep pockets would do what Porsche is doing, as described in this article:

3D Printing Hard to Find Parts

Ron

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mstrug
Posted 2018-02-13 8:49 PM (#558065 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Wouldn't that be great. What do the machines go for now 300K or more? I watched the Makerbot documentary film on Netflix, 2014, They made plastic items that I suppose you could cast in metal with a mold or lost wax method.
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1956DeS
Posted 2018-04-03 12:27 PM (#561044 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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I had a spark plug boot printed a few years ago. I did not need to buy a 3D printer or hire a designer. I just measured
precisely an existing part, made a CAD drawing and Shapeways did the rest. It was affordable and would have been
more affordable had I ordered in quantity.

If it can be drawn in CAD, it can be 3D printed. If I can do it, you can do it, because I'm as dumb as a brick and yet
was able to do it.

Lenses could be made at a reasonable cost, less than resin casting. Yeah, I tried casting too and it is very difficult and
the materials are very expensive. Hats off to George who seems to have mastered a difficult art.

So why isn't there already a repository of 3D CAD drawings here? I donno. It is beyond me.

Have a nice day
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wizard
Posted 2018-04-03 1:36 PM (#561050 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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I guess it's for the same reason that you didn't upload your drawing here

Joke asides, it takes many hours of work to make the 3-D drawings so I Think that noone will just give them away for to have someone else printing them out and profit on them.

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sermey
Posted 2018-04-03 2:36 PM (#561057 - in reply to #561050)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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wizard - 2018-04-03 7:36 PM . . . . it takes many hours of work to make the 3-D drawings so I Think that noone will just give them away for to have someone else printing them out and profit on them.

In fact, modeling a part in 3D with free surfaces need more man power time than just printing 3D, similar to write a document and then print it. I did already some parts in 3D using my own CAD models, and they became very accurate without paying 330k for the printer. For small parts the resolution may be critical for a fine surface. Soon I will show some results with printable STL-Files.

But interesting will be 3D-Metal Printing coming soon. Thus, today high expensive items as emblems, antenna sockets, rear fins will become cheap, even at lower quantities.

  - SERGE -  

N.B. A part for 3D-Print: 1958 D500 Emblem



Edited by sermey 2018-04-03 3:03 PM




(1958 D500 Emblem USD1000.jpg)



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Attachments 1958 D500 Emblem USD1000.jpg (195KB - 409 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-03 2:52 PM (#561061 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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wizard - 2018-04-03 10:36 AM

I guess it's for the same reason that you didn't upload your drawing here

Joke asides, it takes many hours of work to make the 3-D drawings so I Think that noone will just give them away for to have someone else printing them out and profit on them.



He actually did upload them here. I helped him do it.

No one? I have posted nearly everything I have drawn. The only thing I haven't posted is the HEI bracket that I sell on a regular basis. Not posting up CAD files that you don't sell anything from is being selfish in my opinion. Not everyone has the capability to do it and it's not like you are going to make a fortune selling most of this stuff. Most of the things that people draw out never even get offered to others to purchase so why not post the files? 3D printing in metal, polishing, and then chroming is so expensive & time consuming as well, that you aren't likely to be able to sell any of them with any kind of worthwhile profit.

It really pissed me off when I bought my house and the builder refused to sell me a copy of the plans for it. He built 2 houses like mine and had no plans to build any more. What was he afraid of? I just wanted a copy to figure out where all the electrical and plumbing lines were located. What a jerk. Don't be like him.




Edited by Powerflite 2018-04-03 2:55 PM
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wizard
Posted 2018-04-03 3:20 PM (#561064 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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I stand corrected - I finally found the thread with the spark plug insulators http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=50245&... plug&highlightmode=1#M420408
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sermey
Posted 2018-04-04 2:31 AM (#561117 - in reply to #561061)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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I no have problems to upload CAD-Files, but: files too big, and if done, many downloads and no responses at all.
As well I didn't got any support for modeling FWL-Parts. . . . . . . 

Here as sample an STL-File I uploaded for the rear antenna guide.

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=59449&start=77

On request (ronbo97) I modeled the Coronet Name Plate, but not finished for missing the attached emblem. Such parts, when 3D-printed,
need only polishing the front. Can see, so simple, the base is a 1 :1 scan, no dimensions required, copy the contour and extrude.

A game of less than 1 hour!  - SERGE -  :laugh:



Edited by sermey 2018-04-04 2:46 AM




(2014 Coronet Name Plate.jpg)



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Attachments 2014 Coronet Name Plate.jpg (156KB - 411 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-04 2:54 AM (#561119 - in reply to #561117)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Well, Serge, if you make a model of the '58 D500 emblem above, I will thank you greatly. That would save me a lot of work trying to do it myself. As you are probably aware, the shield part is easy, but the knight's head can take some time. I modeled up the '58 CRL seat buttons with pretty much no response too. Not sure if anyone cared or not.
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sermey
Posted 2018-04-04 7:27 AM (#561127 - in reply to #561119)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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Years ago I started to model the Rear Knight Emblem, and got stuck with the knight head. The result of the face was not perfect, so as I stopped. From time to time I go on. Or must find somebody for 3D-scan, but best quality is when modeled. Could use it anywhere on my car (D500 Emblem, HubCaps, Glove Box Emblem, Horn Ring Emblem, Front Emblem, . . . .). This 1959 knight is more complex than the 58 one.

You will understand, that I should first model my own knight before others - except you model my knight and I do yours????  - SERGE - 

Modeling Rear Knight Emblem:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=34070&start=48



Edited by sermey 2018-04-04 7:51 AM




(2014 Knight Left Side.jpg)



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Attachments 2014 Knight Left Side.jpg (108KB - 406 downloads)
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sermey
Posted 2018-04-05 7:42 AM (#561177 - in reply to #561127)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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Here a list of actual available materials and alloys for metal 3D Printing:

•Steel
•Stainless steel
•Titanium (pure)
•Titanium alloys
•Aluminum alloys
•Nickel-based alloys
•Cobalt chrome alloys
•Copper-based alloys

Soon 3d models of FWL parts can be metal 3d printed in an affordable way. Then fine-coat them to get a chromable finish.

Thus to all: go on modeling FWL parts.  - SERGE - 

 

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1956DeS
Posted 2018-04-05 9:42 AM (#561180 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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Appologies if I assumed people should give away their hard work. CAD files could be sold, perhaps on ebay or wherever.
Finished parts also. It is good to see interest picking up. Good work, sermey.

-1956DeS
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-05 10:32 AM (#561182 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: RE: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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I have used 3D printing quite a bit for my work. This part is printed in Stainless. Some of the other materials (like aluminum) are worse quality than others, but stainless is better than most. Nevertheless, the surface finish isn't good enough to just chrome straight out of the box. You have to polish it first, which is difficult for a small part. This part is about 1.375" in length and cost about $130 each in small quantity.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-04-05 10:38 AM




(PrintedStainless.jpg)



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Attachments PrintedStainless.jpg (198KB - 260 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-04-05 11:34 AM (#561185 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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eh i don't think it would be cost effective.

I don't think the future of FWL is based on small parts, its simply based on project cars left. If there is none left to restore? why make parts?

And i know everyone loves to say they are everywhere but the supply is drying up. The converts are pretty much gone.

Again I'm not saying there isn't ANY supply but to the general/hobby restorer they supply is pretty much gone.... I know the old timers know of some final scraps sitting in someones garage.

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wizard
Posted 2018-04-05 3:21 PM (#561194 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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We do what we do just because we can and want to, not because it's cost effective.
The true spirit in restoring old cars is to pour down money by the bucket load in a hopeless wreck that noone wouldn't care for

The stainless part above could have been milled out in a CNC mill as well.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2018-04-05 4:09 PM (#561195 - in reply to #561194)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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I have mused that in some distant day, no restoration would be necessary. 

Perhaps you could contact a company, tell them what car you want (year, make, model, options, color, interior), pay the price, and they could just fabricate the whole thing for you.

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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-14 5:24 PM (#561619 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: RE: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Look at what I picked up at Spring Fling today! I told my friend that if he bought the Dodge/DeSoto Fuel injection setup, that he needed to let me measure out the emblems from it so we could make some reproductions. So he let me take them to do that. Looks like I have some work to do now.



(58Fuel Injection.jpg)



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Attachments 58Fuel Injection.jpg (171KB - 22 downloads)
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1956DeS
Posted 2018-04-14 5:55 PM (#561621 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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What about making silicone castings? That was quite a find
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2018-04-14 6:07 PM (#561623 - in reply to #561619)
Subject: RE: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Great stuff, Nathan!!!

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ttotired
Posted 2018-04-14 6:24 PM (#561625 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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I wanted to make that emblem when I had my dodge, but the guys that had one wernt keen on
giving out measurements so I could make one.

I think if you make one, there will be howls of disapproval from those with them, just like the D500 repo emblems that
get heavily criticised when they appear

Silicone moulding will produce a good copy, but will loose a little detail and more importantly, size once the process (silicone to
wax, wax to metal, metal polishing) has been finished.

I think that's the advantage of printing. You can model the original part, then blow it up a little to cover shrinkage and for a part
without fine detail like this one, it would come out good

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mstrug
Posted 2018-04-14 7:09 PM (#561628 - in reply to #561619)
Subject: RE: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Powerflite - 2018-04-14 4:24 PM

Look at what I picked up at Spring Fling today! I told my friend that if he bought the Dodge/DeSoto Fuel injection setup, that he needed to let me measure out the emblems from it so we could make some reproductions. So he let me take them to do that. Looks like I have some work to do now. :)


Just to cool! I would buy a couple sets. Even in the Raw. Marc.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-15 12:14 AM (#561647 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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I am currently on a 4hr layover on my way to China with nothing better to do so I have Solidworks set up on my laptop and i will do a first draft and fix the dimensions when i get back home. My goal is to create a very accurate model that these things could be made from without relying on the quality of the original part. I don’t want to do 3D printing because it will make them too expesive and require too much polishing afterward. I’m not sure of what vendor to use to pull it off from a CAD model so if anyone has suggestions, I am all ears.
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1956DeS
Posted 2018-04-15 9:23 AM (#561657 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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It seems no one on the forwarlook has a 3D printer. I don't think the DeSoto club has any interest either last time I mentioned it although they keep George in business, lol. I think I put Georges kids through college (just kidding).
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sermey
Posted 2018-04-21 3:21 AM (#562004 - in reply to #561619)
Subject: RE: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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The most accurate and professional is first to do an exact model on 3D-Cad, accuracy of 0.01m from the original sample*. Then produce a molding tool by electro-erosion, respecting the shrinking of the material.

All other is a nice hobby.  - SERGE - 

 

* Even this is not engineering but copy, it needs fundamental practical knowledge in technical construction and spheric thinking. Cobbler, stick to your last!



Edited by sermey 2018-04-21 4:12 AM
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mstrug
Posted 2018-04-21 5:42 AM (#562006 - in reply to #561647)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Powerflite - 2018-04-14 11:14 PM

I am currently on a 4hr layover on my way to China with nothing better to do so I have Solidworks set up on my laptop and i will do a first draft and fix the dimensions when i get back home. My goal is to create a very accurate model that these things could be made from without relying on the quality of the original part. I don’t want to do 3D printing because it will make them too expesive and require too much polishing afterward. I’m not sure of what vendor to use to pull it off from a CAD model so if anyone has suggestions, I am all ears.


China! You are in the heart of cheap Manufacturing. Go get 'em Tiger.
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hemidenis
Posted 2018-04-22 12:04 AM (#562049 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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FL parts manufacture are not cost effective in any way or form. Only people with a full blown running business can do reproductions like theses, like Vans-Auto. I would be like getting a chrome machine to chrome your parts and pretending chrome for others, doing it part time. Been there, done that.

I have a College friend who can do any thing in 3D, he is actually an excellent 3D Cad expert, but he would probably need the part or the exact measures to do it. I'm sure his fees will be very affordable.

Lucky for me I do not own a Dodge. but how cool will be do a 3d scan of a part, correct/erase flaws and then 3D printed it in SS.



















Edited by hemidenis 2018-04-22 3:58 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-22 8:26 PM (#562082 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: RE: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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I didn't get much done at the airport because my laptop was not cut out for handling the display requirements of Solidworks and I realized that I had a later version there, than what I had at home, so I would need to redo it anyway. Oh well, I made a good start on it and the time gave me good idea for getting the more complicated curves done. I had some trouble with a faulty pair of calipers that periodically added .2" to everything, but got a different pair and got the base mostly done, except for details like small radii, draft angles, and carving out the backside. The devil is in those details.... and the lettering was more difficult to measure properly so I need to check everything on it with a picture at a much higher resolution. But making good progress nevertheless.



(EFI Base Pic1.jpg)



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Attachments EFI Base Pic1.jpg (48KB - 19 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-04-22 10:36 PM (#562090 - in reply to #562049)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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hemidenis - 2018-04-22 12:04 AM FL parts manufacture are not cost effective in any way or form. Only people with a full blown running business can do reproductions like theses, like Vans-Auto..


Even Vans knows its not very profitable to make parts for forward look cars.  I am not even sure they made their money back on 57 dodge exhaust tips?    think about how many 57 chevy parts you can buy, how many makers are there? how many things you can buy at summit...  Its absurd. 

The rust and the rarity hurts us and the fact that someohow we still dont command what a very very common reproduced 57 chevy does in price.

And the projects are seriously drying up.  I think 57 fords are also.  Forward looks cars are super fricking rare.  I think we know this... Even a handful only show up to huge chrysler shows...  you get 1000 Chargers... 1 plymouth?

They reproduce 57 chevy bodies...  could you imagine if someone repops 57 dodges?  58 plymouths?   You see more 58 GM cars than you do of ALL forward look cars..

they made TONS of 57 Chevy convertibles alone, 50,000!  dodge had 5000,  so...  a plain jane 57 Dodge convert sells for less than a 57 chevy convert? supply an demand says it should be many more times higher, its 10x rarer.  The problem is people don't even know these cars exist. 

add Pontiac, Olds, Cadillac, Buick and you get ALOT more GM cars.  Chrysler didnt get a good rep with the 57's due to production issues, rust and leaking.

So these cars were not valued heavily so they smashed tons.

 

They made 680k of plymouth though?  They made 580k of 57 chevies. but GM outsold Chrysler with the other brands by a huge margin.  all the other FWL brands didnt sele in huge numbers, Dodge sold 280?

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/1109sr-real-deal-steel-1957-chevy-body/

 57 Chevy numbers

150
4 Door sedan 52,266
2 Door sedan 70,774
Handyman Wagon, 2 door 14,740
Utility Sedan, 2 Door 8,300

210
4 Door Sedan 260,401
2 Door Sedan 160,090
Townsman Wagon, 4 Door 127,803
Delray Coupe 25,644
Handyman Wagon, 2 Door 17,528
Sport Hardtop Coupe 22,631
Beauville Wagon, 4 Door, 9 pass. 21,083
Sport Hardtop Sedan 16,178

Bel Air
2 Door Sedan 62,751
4 Door Sedan 254,331
Townsman Wagon, 4 Door 27,375
Nomad Wagon, 2 Door 6,103
Convertible Coupe 47,562
Sport Hardtop Coupe 47,562
Sport Hardtop Sedan 137,672

 

 

 

 

 

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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-24 2:04 AM (#562170 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Would it be sacrilege to make this as one piece? I am thinking it would be a lot cheaper and easier to make that way. But I wonder why they didn't do it that way originally?
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57burb
Posted 2018-04-24 2:16 AM (#562173 - in reply to #562170)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Powerflite - 2018-04-24 1:04 AM

Would it be sacrilege to make this as one piece? I am thinking it would be a lot cheaper and easier to make that way. But I wonder why they didn't do it that way originally?


Because one piece is chrome and the other is gold. If you ask me, I say do it in two pieces as original so it can be plated correctly.



(28397398496_0a0501e521_b (1).jpg)



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Attachments 28397398496_0a0501e521_b (1).jpg (102KB - 20 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-24 2:53 AM (#562174 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Yeah, I figured there had to be a good reason for it because it wouldn't make sense otherwise. Masking the plating process is possible but really not easy, so 2 pieces it is.
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sermey
Posted 2018-04-30 2:59 AM (#562513 - in reply to #562173)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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The script I N J E C T I O N from the geometrical point of view is a challenge to construct due to the special perspective. For curiousity I did a first attempt:

Project the letters on a slanted face, then project again the resulting letters on another rotated face. The rounding as initial circles become first ellypses, then spline curves.
The final optical illusion is to see all as twisted in a room, but as shown on the bottom as TopView (01), all is on a flat plane, as the letters  F U E L. 

Interesting how intelligent many FWL items have been designed! - SERGE -  


N.B. Can as well be done with the "sunshine" option in SolidWorks and generate instantly the correct shape by the shadow.
(Unfortunately I was not given the dimensions of the emblem, all is done by pictures. Is there somebody to support? 57burb?)



Edited by sermey 2018-04-30 3:05 AM




(01 FUEL INJECTION 250 TopView.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-04-30 11:18 PM (#562577 - in reply to #562174)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Nathan, ... what are those parts you have there .... original or unplated re-pops ?

If this project is really going to go forward, I have an original base on which measure-
ments can be based. If Nathan's pieces are original, then we have everything we need to
put the puzzle together. If they are re-pops, then an original might be needed to check
for shrinkage.

Anyway, I offer this part of mine for use in making a run of dead-on reproductions if
it is needed.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-30 11:52 PM (#562584 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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I think they are unplated re-pops...it would be good to check a couple of dimensions against yours. I am speaking with 2 vendors to make a run on them now. Their minimum draft angle is 1 degree on most surfaces, which is less than the originals I have in most places.
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sermey
Posted 2018-05-03 9:02 AM (#562731 - in reply to #561619)
Subject: RE: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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"Look at what I picked up" . . . . . . and what I did for fun (without sample or dimensions):

Comparison in pot metal (part somewhat deformed) versus white plastic (CAD).  - SERGE - 



Edited by sermey 2018-05-03 9:14 AM




(FUEL - - I N J E C T I O N Comparison.jpg)



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wizard
Posted 2018-05-03 12:26 PM (#562739 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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That's a dead ringer Serge!!! Very nicely done indeed - I hope that someone can give you the dimensions.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-03 2:24 PM (#562748 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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I could give him the full model - but for what purpose? 3D printing of these in metal will be at least $450-$500 a set, then polishing, then separate gold & chrome plating. You would end up with close to $1K invested into it. That isn't my plan. I plan to do a full run of zinc casting & plating so I can potentially keep the cost at a reasonable value. Any objections?
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wizard
Posted 2018-05-03 3:59 PM (#562753 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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I don't think that Serge have any intentions to print out that emblem, he's doing this for fun and for the challenge.

Also, there should not really be a market for those emblems since that there are only a few cars that had the fuel injection.

It could be a man-Cave item to hang on the wall though.....
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-05-03 4:29 PM (#562754 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby


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Those big pieces are a pita to cast
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mstrug
Posted 2018-05-03 5:07 PM (#562757 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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3D printing isn't 'cast. If these can be printed in a chrome-able plastic that is strong, (it's out there), I would be just fine with that. My 2x2 throttle body 1958 DeSoto hemi would be fine with that. Now lets see the gold 'X' emblem.


Edited by mstrug 2018-05-03 5:10 PM
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1960ny
Posted 2018-05-06 6:57 AM (#562867 - in reply to #562757)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Had some parts for 1957-58 Convertible sunvisor hard ware printed out a few years ago

A friend did the cad drawing and Kraftwurx in TX printed them out in a brass alloy, Sent them to be chromed at Sherm,s
in Sacramento CA



(IMG_0275 (002).jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_0275 (002).jpg (173KB - 20 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2018-05-06 9:27 AM (#562871 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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Very nice printed parts Jörgen - I see that there was some polishing needed, but the final result is very good.
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ttotired
Posted 2018-05-09 6:49 PM (#563046 - in reply to #558062)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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As for a market, I wanted to get a set for my dodge because I was planning to put a twin throttle body injection kit on it. I thought it would be cool to have the factory emblems (or a close copy)

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mstrug
Posted 2018-05-11 4:21 PM (#563172 - in reply to #563046)
Subject: Re: 3D Printing and the Future of Our Hobby



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ttotired - 2018-05-09 5:49 PM

As for a market, I wanted to get a set for my dodge because I was planning to put a twin throttle body injection kit on it. I thought it would be cool to have the factory emblems (or a close copy)



How about Printing some of these...?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-392-Hemi-Fuel-Injection-intake-manifo...





(electrojectorebay1.jpg)



(electrojectorebay2.jpg)



(electrojectorebay3.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments electrojectorebay1.jpg (342KB - 19 downloads)
Attachments electrojectorebay2.jpg (348KB - 16 downloads)
Attachments electrojectorebay3.jpg (423KB - 20 downloads)
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