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Master Cylinder
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1956RoyalLancer
Posted 2018-05-23 3:43 PM (#563900)
Subject: Master Cylinder


Member

Posts: 5

Hello,

Does anyone know if there is a master cylinder that will retrofit my 1956 Dodge Royal Lancer? The car has power breaks but it only a single cylinder.

Thanks,

Will

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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-23 5:46 PM (#563917 - in reply to #563900)
Subject: RE: Master Cylinder



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Posts: 3226
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Location: Lower Mainland BC
1956RoyalLancer - 2018-05-23 3:43 PM

Hello,

Does anyone know if there is a master cylinder that will retrofit my 1956 Dodge Royal Lancer? The car has power breaks but it only a single cylinder.

Thanks,

Will



Will: I have a 56 Custom Royal, PS/PB car. I replaced my single channel Master Cylinder with one from Raybestos (probably made in China).

Rock Auto has one by Raybestos and one by Cardone:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,1956,custom,5.1l+315cid+v8...

HOWEVER, before you go for one of those, consider that you have the opportunity with a little more work and cost to add some significant safety by going to a dual channel (front/rear) circuit Master Cylinder like the Cardone 13-1323M:

The Cardone 13-1323M (manual, drum/drum) is still available and cheap. Looks like it would bolt right up (I'm thinking for my 56 CR)

http://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/cardone+select,131323M,master+cyli...

http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product-Detail?productId=131323M&p=...

Regardless, any new Master Cylinder will need to be Bench Bled before installation. (I learned the hard way)

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1956RoyalLancer
Posted 2018-05-23 6:09 PM (#563919 - in reply to #563900)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder


Member

Posts: 5

Thank you, I will look into it
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-23 6:52 PM (#563924 - in reply to #563919)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
1956RoyalLancer - 2018-05-23 6:09 PM
Thank you, I will look into it


I just put my money where my mouth is and ordered the Cardone 13-1323M and it's Raybestos equivalent. The Cardone will be about CDN$42 which would be CDN$43 from Rock Auto Shipped (extra $15). The Raybestos will be CDN$51 so not much difference. They said that the Raybestos would be better. I will take the better value one of the two.

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57chizler
Posted 2018-05-24 3:16 PM (#563973 - in reply to #563900)
Subject: RE: Master Cylinder



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There are numerous tandem 4-bolt master cylinders that will fit the older Mopars but it's wise to take into consideration the bore size of the MC i.e. some 1" MC's might not be a good replacement for the original 1 1/8" bore MC's. Smaller bore MC's like the Cardone 13-1323M might result in excessive pedal travel.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-24 7:51 PM (#563987 - in reply to #563924)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
56D500boy - 2018-05-23 6:52 PM
I just put my money where my mouth is and ordered the Cardone 13-1323M and it's Raybestos equivalent. The Cardone will be about CDN$42 which would be CDN$43 from Rock Auto Shipped (extra $15). The Raybestos will be CDN$51 so not much difference. They said that the Raybestos would be better. I will take the better value one of the two.
:)


The two dual channel four bolt master cylinders that I ordered yesterday came into today. The Raybestos one is an MC36221 (Made in China). The Cardone was the 13-1323M, new (also made in China). Contrary to some photos of the Raybestos MC 36221 looked *IDENTICAL* to the Cardone, down to the same colour dust plugs in the outlet ports. I asked the store (LORDCO) manager which one I should take given that they looked the same. His answer was "Well, we get more returns (for what ever reason) on the Cardone". Case closed. I went with the Raybestos. Now to find the fittings.

Sometimes you find photos of the MC36221 that look like this, with the taller cap and the wire bale. (Might be too tall for my 56 power brake bellows):



Other times you will find it like this:



The Raybestos that I got looks like this one from Centric (which also looks like the Cardone):



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-24 8:51 PM (#563990 - in reply to #563987)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
Hmm.... Might have problem.

When I changed the plugs on my engine (315 hemi), getting at the left rear most cylinder (7?) was "interesting". Because the brake light pressure switch is "hot" all the time, before I clued in and disconnected the battery, I shorted something (ratchet, extension, whatever) on the switch. Now that I have this new MC 36221 which will stick out further, I might not even be able to access that cylinder without removing or at least moving the dual channel master over a bit. Not sure.

Some photos:





(ExistingD500MasterCylinderShowingOverlapOnToCylinderHead.jpg)



(ExistingD500MasterCylinderShowingProximityToHead.jpg)



(NewDualChannelMCBesideExistingSingleChannelMC_side.jpg)



(NewDualChannelMCBesideExistingSingleChannelMC_Front.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments ExistingD500MasterCylinderShowingOverlapOnToCylinderHead.jpg (133KB - 8 downloads)
Attachments ExistingD500MasterCylinderShowingProximityToHead.jpg (144KB - 8 downloads)
Attachments NewDualChannelMCBesideExistingSingleChannelMC_side.jpg (120KB - 8 downloads)
Attachments NewDualChannelMCBesideExistingSingleChannelMC_Front.jpg (128KB - 8 downloads)
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51coronet
Posted 2018-05-29 8:21 PM (#564213 - in reply to #563900)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder


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I think you should consider doing a few things. Run hard line off the master cylinder, you should only have 3 flex lines (front wheels and rear axle). Its not hard to do and isn't expensive. The hardest part is bleeding the brakes completely afterwards. Flaring kit, cutter and some line should run less than $100. Next you can relocate the brake light switch just about anywhere you like if you do run hard line. It just needs to be exposed to brake fluid pressure which will be all over below the master cylinder. You can T it in anywhere you like just protect it from water and dirt exposure. One thing to keep in mind is the front wheels will get more pressure and faster than the rear so may affect how soon or slow the brake lights turn on. Hope this helps.
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1956RoyalLancer
Posted 2018-05-30 12:37 PM (#564246 - in reply to #564213)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder


Member

Posts: 5

Do the master cylinder mentioned above retrofit the stock brake booster?
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-30 4:47 PM (#564264 - in reply to #563900)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder



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Location: So. California
Do you mean, Is it compatible with the stock brake booster? If so, then yes, as long as it will physically fit under it. The booster doesn't care what master is used, but the piston size will make a difference as stated earlier to give you more or less pedal travel. And Dave, I recommend that you plumb that new master with small 3/16" lines so you can easily move it around to get at your plugs. If you go with 1/4" line (like I foolishly did), you will have to disconnect it every time and re-bleed it.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-05-30 4:49 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-30 5:34 PM (#564268 - in reply to #564264)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder



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Posts: 3226
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Location: Lower Mainland BC
Powerflite - 2018-05-30 4:47 PM

Do you mean, Is it compatible with the stock brake booster? If so, then yes, as long as it will physically fit under it. The booster doesn't care what master is used, but the piston size will make a difference as stated earlier to give you more or less pedal travel..


Agree. 56RoyalLancer might want to review the diagram below.

Powerflite - 2018-05-30 4:47 PM
And Dave, I recommend that you plumb that new master with small 3/16" lines so you can easily move it around to get at your plugs. If you go with 1/4" line (like I foolishly did), you will have to disconnect it every time and re-bleed it.


I have come to the conclusion that to access my No. 7 spark plug, I will need to move the new dual chamber master cylinder. To do this with out rebleeding, I will need to have flexible connections from the dual chamber master cylinder to the front and rear brake lines. However, I am not understanding the issue with 1/4" vs 3/16". To be honest I was going to investigate rubber lines (after a 90 deg fitting in the master cylinder).



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-05-30 5:37 PM




(BellowTypePowerBrakeMechanism.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments BellowTypePowerBrakeMechanism.jpg (160KB - 8 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-30 6:23 PM (#564272 - in reply to #563900)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder



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Location: So. California
Rubber is a different story, but if you have a coil of 3/16 hard line, it is easily bent enough to move the master out of the way without issue.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-05-30 6:25 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-06-01 1:12 AM (#564353 - in reply to #564272)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder



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Posts: 3226
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Location: Lower Mainland BC
Someone (anyone?) want to explain what is going on with this 66 Plymouth master cylinder and distribution block. I think I have it figured out but I am not sure. HINT: The car has front discs and rear drums.

The car is here:

http://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/HOU/1160/1966-Plymouth-Fury

The pertinent photos:



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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2018-06-01 4:57 PM (#564378 - in reply to #563900)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder



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Location: Netherlands
Nothing special imo.
Looks alright and exactly like how every disc/drum Mopar was plumbed in the later years (minus the position of the prop.valve ofcourse).
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mstrug
Posted 2018-06-01 5:16 PM (#564379 - in reply to #563900)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder



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Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth)
Here is a 1962-1972 proportioning valve, Mopar style if you want all Chrysler parts: http://piratejack.net/mopar-proportioning-valve/ There is probably a kit to mate it under roadrunner/coronet Master.

http://therammaninc.com/products/shop_view/Mopar-TA-Disc-Brake-Prop...



Edited by mstrug 2018-06-01 5:27 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-01 6:01 PM (#564381 - in reply to #564353)
Subject: Re: Master Cylinder



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Location: So. California
56D500boy - 2018-05-31 10:12 PM

Someone (anyone?) want to explain what is going on with this 66 Plymouth master cylinder and distribution block. I think I have it figured out but I am not sure. HINT: The car has front discs and rear drums.


What is going on is he was trying to make all the lines as loopy, long, and as visible as possible. My guess is he stared too long at the old 3D pipes screen saver and it messed with his brain.
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