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Need longer wheel studs...
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ViperMan
Posted 2018-05-30 3:08 PM (#564255)
Subject: Need longer wheel studs...


Member

Posts: 38
25
Boy oh boy I didn't think this would be so hard...

Project K-Rod - my '56 Dodge Coronet hot rod project - is getting ready to kick off, and phase 1 is better wheels/tires. Now, I know you guys like all original, but I'm going with 20 x 8.5 Savini Black di Forza BM15 wheels, and a 245/40R20 tire. Doing some measurements, it looks like I can run a .5" spacer on the back and 1" space in the front to bring the wheels out just a smidge, improving the look and track of the car. However, to do the .5" spacers, I'm going to need longer studs. It looks like our cars have a 1/2-20, 1 7/16" long stud with a .645" knurl, non-serrated stud. A handful of internet searches hasn't found ANYTHING longer than the 1 7/16" length, so I gotta get creative and quick!

Anyone know any sources for custom machined wheel studs??

Thanks in advance for any help!
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-30 4:02 PM (#564258 - in reply to #564255)
Subject: RE: Need longer wheel studs...



Expert

Posts: 3373
200010001001001002525
Location: Lower Mainland BC
This Dorman one is 1.9" long but only 0.627 knurl:

https://www.amazon.ca/Dorman-Autograde-610-569-1-Serrated-Length/dp/...

More from Dorman (including 1 5/8") : https://www.dormanproducts.com/gsearch.aspx?year=1956&make=Dodge&mod...



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-05-30 4:05 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-30 5:08 PM (#564266 - in reply to #564255)
Subject: Re: Need longer wheel studs...



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Posts: 4542
2000200050025
Location: So. California
You could (precisely) drill out your flange to a larger size and put these into it.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-46490/overview/

Or you could install a longer rear end into it. But getting wide wheels with large offset onto the axle can be very tricky to get it in place without disconnecting the shocks first.
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LostDeere59
Posted 2018-05-30 8:56 PM (#564275 - in reply to #564255)
Subject: RE: Need longer wheel studs...



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Posts: 309
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Location: Hilltown, PA

I don't know where you hail from, but I can tell you that here in PA those spacers are illegal. We allow 1/4 inch max. and no bolt-on spacers.

In any event spacers that large do bad things to bearing loading - think off-center load - especially when you exacerbate it with larger wheels - think longer lever.

If you're ordering/buying wheels why not get wheels with the correct/desired back-spacing and offsets so that you don't need the spacers? The bearing loading will still be negatively affected, but at least the mounting will be proper and secure.


Gregg
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-30 9:14 PM (#564277 - in reply to #564255)
Subject: Re: Need longer wheel studs...



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Posts: 4542
2000200050025
Location: So. California
^^What he said.^^ I agree.
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ViperMan
Posted 2018-05-30 10:28 PM (#564279 - in reply to #564275)
Subject: RE: Need longer wheel studs...


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Posts: 38
25
LostDeere59 - 2018-05-30 8:56 PM


I don't know where you hail from, but I can tell you that here in PA those spacers are illegal. We allow 1/4 inch max. and no bolt-on spacers.

In any event spacers that large do bad things to bearing loading - think off-center load - especially when you exacerbate it with larger wheels - think longer lever.

If you're ordering/buying wheels why not get wheels with the correct/desired back-spacing and offsets so that you don't need the spacers? The bearing loading will still be negatively affected, but at least the mounting will be proper and secure.


Gregg


That's interesting - is that from a PA inspection standpoint? I used to be an inspection mechanic years ago but frankly don't remember what the laws were regarding spacers.

I do hear what you're saying - on the same token, it's mostly a show-car. I will certainly be wearing the bearings a little harder, but at 1,000 miles a year tops, I'm not sure it's that much of a concern. Down the road I'll be putting a bigger axle on it, converting to disc brakes, and who knows what else - I'm just trying to shine her up before Carlisle.

Also, they don't MAKE wheels like the ones I want with a 0 offset - everything is either American Racing or Cragars, and I can't stand those things.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-05-31 12:58 PM (#564310 - in reply to #564255)
Subject: RE: Need longer wheel studs...



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ViperMan - 2018-05-30 12:08 PM
I'm going with 20 x 8.5 Savini Black di Forza BM15 wheels, and a 245/40R20 tire.


That should look nice......not.



(carriage.jpg)



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Attachments carriage.jpg (26KB - 10 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-31 1:39 PM (#564315 - in reply to #564255)
Subject: Re: Need longer wheel studs...



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Posts: 4542
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Location: So. California
Those are great wheels! Imagine if you were transported back to 1830, and were tasked to come up with a better designed wagon wheel. How would you do it? With all our engineering improvements over the years, there's really no better design for traversing the wilderness - over every type of terrain, thick mud and through water ways. No rubber to wear out or pop, extremely high center of gravity, and very rugged. The only improvement might be to make them out of aluminum instead and protect the simple grease-bearing a little better, but then you wouldn't be able to repair them on the way. I really like that design for it's intended purpose.

Everyone has an opinion on wheels. Best to let people do as they wish.
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57burb
Posted 2018-05-31 3:04 PM (#564321 - in reply to #564315)
Subject: Re: Need longer wheel studs...



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Posts: 3348
2000100010010010025
Location: DFW, TX
A '56 Coronet donk with the stock 11" drum brakes behind them, that will look great. Okay, I'll be nice about the wheels.

I'm going to say something about your spacer idea though. Please do not swap longer studs and run a shim-type spacer.
As mentioned before, that puts a significant stress on the studs themselves, as the forces of the wheel are able to act on a longer lever.
One good pothole and it will bend one stud, which then breaks, which then adds more stress to the remaining studs. This is just
a recipe for disaster.

Someone above mentioned avoiding a bolt-on type wheel spacer. But I think these are usually okay - IF you get a high quality one
with a reasonable thickness; avoid anything over 1.5", and don't drive it hard on the street. Personally when I see a deep wheel
spacer I figure the person didn't know how to order a proper set of wheels. But there I go with an opinion on wheels.

I do see one problem though. I'm almost certain you don't have enough room up front for an 8.5" wide wheel. Something is going to
rub when you turn or on a rough road.I think the back will fit fine but you're dealing with a '50s car with a shrouded rear wheel even
at stock height. That means you need to be really careful about your backspacing (offset for the kids). You are planning to run a very
narrow tire on it so you might be able to get away with that size all around but we'll just have to see if your measurements work out.

PS, I think I know what you're shooting for here, but I gotta tell you it takes a ton of work to make a '50s car look good with a set
of modern wheels. Suspension, steering, brakes, tire width and diameter... it doesn't all just fall together. Good luck.



(3May%201,2011%20cruise%20002.jpg)



(57-20-22.jpg)



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Attachments 3May%201,2011%20cruise%20002.jpg (156KB - 11 downloads)
Attachments 57-20-22.jpg (73KB - 10 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-31 4:50 PM (#564326 - in reply to #564321)
Subject: Re: Need longer wheel studs...



Expert

Posts: 3373
200010001001001002525
Location: Lower Mainland BC
On the clearance issue, I will offer my 2 cents:

Until I decide to pony up and buy TorqueThrusts, I am running 1985 Dodge Diplomat 15" x 7" cop car wheels with 235/75/15 radial tires.

Before I bought the tires, I had the shop mount one up on one of the wheels. Then I tried it on the front and rear (one at time obviously). It looked like there were no issues on the front but the inner lip of the upper wheel well had to be trimmed about 1/2" to 3/4" the top(ish) area of the wheel to prevent rubbing. That worked fine. Subsequently, I found out that under low speed (parking and getting the car out the garage maneuvers with full lock on the steering, the front tires are rubbing on the forward frame rail (a bit), possibly increasing my turning radius. Under normal driving, there are no issues.



And a sketch of the wheel well trim zone (not my car but the same colour, etc) (I did the annotation):



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-05-31 8:46 PM




(ExampleWheelWellTrimWidthsForTireClearanceTrimming.jpg)



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Attachments ExampleWheelWellTrimWidthsForTireClearanceTrimming.jpg (91KB - 10 downloads)
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ttotired
Posted 2018-05-31 5:14 PM (#564328 - in reply to #564255)
Subject: Re: Need longer wheel studs...



Expert 5K+

Posts: 8242
50002000100010010025
Location: Perth Australia
What do you mean?

Do you mean rim diameter and tyre diameter?

Width is measured across the tyre.

There isn't a lot of room on a standard car to get big tyres on and off, I didn't have much problem once they were on, but to change
the rear tyre, I had to let the air out and take the shock absorber off and have the car jacked off the body, not the diff or spring

I like the look on the 56, but the 57 chev above has got the tyres to narrow.

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LostDeere59
Posted 2018-05-31 7:20 PM (#564340 - in reply to #564279)
Subject: RE: Need longer wheel studs...



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 309
100100100
Location: Hilltown, PA
ViperMan - 2018-05-30 10:28 PM

LostDeere59 - 2018-05-30 8:56 PM


I don't know where you hail from, but I can tell you that here in PA those spacers are illegal. We allow 1/4 inch max. and no bolt-on spacers.

In any event spacers that large do bad things to bearing loading - think off-center load - especially when you exacerbate it with larger wheels - think longer lever.

If you're ordering/buying wheels why not get wheels with the correct/desired back-spacing and offsets so that you don't need the spacers? The bearing loading will still be negatively affected, but at least the mounting will be proper and secure.


Gregg


That's interesting - is that from a PA inspection standpoint? I used to be an inspection mechanic years ago but frankly don't remember what the laws were regarding spacers.

I do hear what you're saying - on the same token, it's mostly a show-car. I will certainly be wearing the bearings a little harder, but at 1,000 miles a year tops, I'm not sure it's that much of a concern. Down the road I'll be putting a bigger axle on it, converting to disc brakes, and who knows what else - I'm just trying to shine her up before Carlisle.

Also, they don't MAKE wheels like the ones I want with a 0 offset - everything is either American Racing or Cragars, and I can't stand those things. :)



Yes - that is from the current PA Inspection procedure.

Wheel spacers have become an issue in recent years, probably because many wheel manufacturers no longer make wheels to accommodate proper installations. Same issue with lack of hub centering.

Unfortunately truly quality and correctly fitted wheels are expensive and sometimes hard to find in the morass of "me too" wheels on the market.

I'm not really looking forward to making the wheel journey myself . . . lol


Gregg
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