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60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-08-20 6:41 AM (#568683)
Subject: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV


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Hi all
I want to add a PCV onto my 413 which originally had no provision for it.
It just has two original open breathers.
I only have one 3/8 port into the manifold behind the carb which is used for brake booster vacuum.
Is there any reason not to Tee this and tap into into this for PCV as well?
Thanks

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wizard
Posted 2018-08-20 8:15 AM (#568685 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV



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I wouldn't let the engine inhale that gunk. You could weld in a "T-pipe" in one exhaust tube as close to the exhaust manifold as possibe/accessible.


This T will create a slight vacuum and the unburned fumes and gunk will be sucked out and hypothethically burn up in the exhaust.


This is one of my coming projects for to get rid of the smell and not letting the gunk be sucked into the engine....


If you want to go the normal way, for a proper function of the pcv you need to install a spacer plate under the carburator - then, hypothetically all cylinders will suffer equally instead of just the rear ones.....
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57chizler
Posted 2018-08-20 2:04 PM (#568705 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: RE: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV



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For years the factory used a PCV valve in one valve cover plumbed to manifold vacuum with a breather cap on the opposite valve cover. Prior to about '68 it was a push-in as pictured below.

I wouldn't worry about gunk getting sucked in, if the valve cover opening has an oil baffle inside, there will be little oil sucked in unless the motor is very tired.



(PCV_in_Cap (Small).jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments PCV_in_Cap (Small).jpg (18KB - 11 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-08-20 7:50 PM (#568725 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV



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I agree, the pcv works very well and is a great addition. You can usually get the type shown above from ebay, or from an early '60's motor that will fit into place where your current down-draft tube is connected on your valve cover. Also, your 413 carb should have a port on the back of it that could be used for a more uniform pcv connection. It may be there, but not be drilled. If so, you can drill and tap it for a 1/8 pipe connection. A little harder to do than to connect with a Tee to the brake port, but it will distribute the pcv fumes more evenly.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-08-20 8:12 PM (#568730 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV


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Both my valve covers have only a 1.5" straight tube which the open breathers fit onto.
I have to find an adapter to fit a pcv into one of those.

The manifold appears to have a spot where it should have been drilled but is blank.
I would not like to do that in situ without removing the manifold to do it so a Tee will do for now.
The carb has no port on the back :-(

I need to find an adapter to fit the valve cover 1.5" tube but likely I will have to make something to suit a regular pcv valve I guess?

On another note, will this affect the idle mixture as its like having a manifold leak isnt it?

Will take a picture tonight and post up what I have.
Will I need to retune?
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-08-20 8:58 PM (#568733 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV



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The pcv shown in the picture above fits over the top of your 1.5" tube. That's what it is designed for. It fits on there tightly.

I doubt you would be able to tell if your carburetor has an undrilled port without pulling the carb off first. It isn't easy to tell unless you can see it directly. There would be a small indent in the location where it could be drilled.

You shouldn't need to re-tune. The mixture drawn in is small in volume and contains a mixture of combustible gases as well. I have never had to make changes afterward.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-08-20 9:09 PM (#568734 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV


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Thats good to know about the PCV.
Ill see if its possible to source one here in Australia.
Thanks for the info.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-08-22 3:47 PM (#568856 - in reply to #568734)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV



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This is what the PCV assembly pictured above looks like disassembled. The valve itself was used up into the late seventies and simply pushed into a rubber grommet.

Edited by 57chizler 2018-08-22 3:49 PM




(PCV Disassembled.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments PCV Disassembled.JPG (157KB - 10 downloads)
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-08-22 4:50 PM (#568860 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV


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Many thanks :-)
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-02 10:27 PM (#569474 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV


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Update....
I fitted a PCV directly into the manifold in combination with and open breather on the left.
Works fine but still makes a little mess with oil eventually dripping from the open breather.

Added a breather with a tube and fed it into the air cleaner.
Unfortunately once the foam in the breather became saturated with oil it caused enough back pressure to start blowing oil out of the dipstick

Still have PCV on right but back to open breather on the left but would like to solve this.

Shes obviously got a bit more blowby that she should but still goes well for 150k miles so looking for a solution other than an engine rebuild.

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wizard
Posted 2018-09-03 12:04 AM (#569480 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV



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Remember my post above…...
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-03 12:07 AM (#569481 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV


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Which bit?
The PCV is going directly into the manifold same as if it had a spacer plate.
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wizard
Posted 2018-09-03 1:23 AM (#569484 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV



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The spacer plate inlet will divide the fumes and eventual gunk fairl evenly to all cylinders - manifold connection will give more to the cylinders close by the inlet

"I wouldn't let the engine inhale that gunk. You could weld in a "T-pipe" in one exhaust tube as close to the exhaust manifold as possibe/accessible.


This T will create a slight vacuum and the unburned fumes and gunk will be sucked out and hypothethically burn up in the exhaust.


This is one of my coming projects for to get rid of the smell and not letting the gunk be sucked into the engine...."
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-03 1:43 AM (#569487 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV


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Not interested in going the way of the exhaust mod.
Want to keep it conventional and simple.
150k miles, if its not gunked up now it will fine for a while yet :-)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-03 4:12 AM (#569495 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV



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If you were indeed pulling vacuum in your motor, there is no way you could get pressure to blow oil out your dipstick. So, your PCV connection may have a blockage inside the valve cover, or elsewhere. Sounds like it is time to pull it and clean it out really well. Also check the head drain passages. My motor was making a mess at the breather before I installed a PCV, but afterward remains very clean and runs excellent over 15k miles so far without having to mess with the plugs. I do run HEI, a high power coil, and .05" plug gap though.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-03 4:19 AM (#569496 - in reply to #569495)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV


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Powerflite - 2018-09-03 7:12 PM

If you were indeed pulling vacuum in your motor, there is no way you could get pressure to blow oil out your dipstick. So, your PCV connection may have a blockage inside the valve cover, or elsewhere. Sounds like it is time to pull it and clean it out really well. Also check the head drain passages. My motor was making a mess at the breather before I installed a PCV, but afterward remains very clean and runs excellent over 15k miles so far without having to mess with the plugs. I do run HEI, a high power coil, and .05" plug gap though.


I think you are onto something, I just pulled the PCV and it seems near enough to stuck and too small.
Spring is way too stiff and I can barely just crack it open by blowing into it as hard as I can and its only got about a 1/4 outlet inside the valve.

Will change it out with another proper V8 sized one and see what happens :-)
Its an aftermarket Aeroflow unit.


Edited by 1coolbanana 2018-09-03 4:21 AM
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60 dart
Posted 2018-09-03 4:40 AM (#569499 - in reply to #568683)
Subject: Re: 60 Golden Lion 413 Adding PCV



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