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Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??
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Mackey58
Posted 2018-08-31 5:06 PM (#569324)
Subject: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Member

Posts: 21

Location: port leyden ny
Hello everyone! I will start with my story-. I recently acquired my fathers first car. It’s a 58 Belvedere hardtop. It was parked in 68 with a spun bearing . My uncle dragged it out of the woods 20 years later, disassembled it, blasted and painted the chassis. Backyard rust repair was started but interest was lost. The body and chassis were put back outside but the parts remained in his garage. The body is very rough but I have fixed worse cars.
About the car.... 58 Belvedere , Black with a red roof and red sport one slash. Someone painted the top black and the slash white but my father says this is how it was new. The interior is black and white. Drivetrain is 350 golden commando, auotomatic with possi rear. The gear ratio is unknown as the original rear is lost. Dad broke it and swapped it out with a non possi. It has the 150 speedo . I have two 350s the original and one Dad swapped in from a 58 cop car after blowing up the first one. I take was stolen but I have the carbs.
I looked for the paper on top of the glovebox liner and everywhere else, it’s not there. The only I’d tag on the. At is the vin plate in the door jamb. Is it possible to verify everything about this car? How?
Looking forward to talking with you guys and getting to work on the car I grew up hearing crazy stories about !
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GregCon
Posted 2018-08-31 6:38 PM (#569334 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Expert

Posts: 2394
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Location: Houston
Is it a two or four door? Either way, I'm not hearing 'very rare'.
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Mackey58
Posted 2018-08-31 6:51 PM (#569335 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Member

Posts: 21

Location: port leyden ny
I can’t find a pic of a 2 door hardtop with this paint scheme let alone with the 350. Was the posi rear and 150 speedo included with the optional 350 or are they separate options?
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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2018-08-31 7:29 PM (#569336 - in reply to #569335)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Elite Veteran

Posts: 986
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Location: CA
The 350 engine was optional and could be had in any plymouth in 1958 but the 150 speedometer was Fury specific, NOT an option and did not accompany the 350 motor. Clearly that was not factory installed. It sounds like a neat car and black/red is a neat color scheme. It would be cool to see. You should try to get FCA to give you the build sheet if they are still doing that.
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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2018-08-31 7:31 PM (#569337 - in reply to #569336)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Elite Veteran

Posts: 986
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Location: CA
BTW the build sheet is usually under the bottom of the rear seat IF it survived which is unlikely.. I've never heard of them being on the glove box for Plymouths..
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Mackey58
Posted 2018-08-31 7:42 PM (#569338 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Member

Posts: 21

Location: port leyden ny
Thanks. What is the fca.
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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2018-08-31 8:26 PM (#569343 - in reply to #569338)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Elite Veteran

Posts: 986
500100100100100252525
Location: CA
Fiat Chrysler Automobiles.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-08-31 9:23 PM (#569346 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: RE: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Expert

Posts: 3567
200010005002525
Location: Lower Mainland BC
You might want to visit this website:

http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/plymouth/ply8/ply8.html

Where they have these:





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Mackey58
Posted 2018-08-31 11:23 PM (#569348 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Member

Posts: 21

Location: port leyden ny
I have that sales brochure. How do I contact FCA? Thanks
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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2018-09-01 1:02 AM (#569353 - in reply to #569348)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Elite Veteran

Posts: 986
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Location: CA
Try this link, let us know how it goes!
http://chryslergroupllc.extra.chrysler.com/company/Heritage/Pages/H...
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westwoodblue
Posted 2018-09-01 12:07 PM (#569365 - in reply to #569334)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Regular

Posts: 63
2525
GregCon - 2018-08-31 6:38 PM

Is it a two or four door? Either way, I'm not hearing 'very rare'.


What a way to welcome a new member, let's drown his enthusiasm for his new project before he even gets to his second post.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-09-01 12:29 PM (#569367 - in reply to #569365)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



50005000500050002000100252525
Location: Parts Unknown
Or, .... he got a minor reality check about what "rarity" really means.

58 Plymouths are one of the best Forward Look designs. The 2HT was
the best of all the body types. As far as seeing them around, one *could*
say they are "rare". But amongst genuine rarities of the Forward Look
type, if a person really wanted a 58 Plymouth 2HT, there are always a
few out there for sale. Just pulling one off the top of my head, try finding
a 58 Fireflite Explorer wagon. I believe there are 2-3 confirmed survivors,
and probably not for sale. THAT is how I define "rare".

But going back to awesome design, or seldom-seen on the road or even
at car shows, you can bet your biffy, the 58 Plymouth 2HT is a top shelf
car.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-09-01 12:49 PM (#569370 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Expert

Posts: 3002
20001000
if its a real GC 58 fury its rare... yes there are ultra ultra insane rare cars...

Unless you think 58 Furys are falling out of trees... they aren't. They are like hens teeth to the normal car guy.


Your perspective is "skewed" again
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westwoodblue
Posted 2018-09-01 2:25 PM (#569373 - in reply to #569367)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Regular

Posts: 63
2525
Doctor DeSoto - 2018-09-01 12:29 PM

Or, .... he got a minor reality check about what "rarity" really means.

58 Plymouths are one of the best Forward Look designs. The 2HT was
the best of all the body types. As far as seeing them around, one *could*
say they are "rare". But amongst genuine rarities of the Forward Look
type, if a person really wanted a 58 Plymouth 2HT, there are always a
few out there for sale. Just pulling one off the top of my head, try finding
a 58 Fireflite Explorer wagon. I believe there are 2-3 confirmed survivors,
and probably not for sale. THAT is how I define "rare".

But going back to awesome design, or seldom-seen on the road or even
at car shows, you can bet your biffy, the 58 Plymouth 2HT is a top shelf
car.


Seriously? Any one of these big-finned clunkers not junked before 1971 is rare. A "reality check" for a member making his first post, interpreting whether or not he wants to join an already dwindling community of an ever-decreasing supply of finned MoPars? It wouldn't have hurt an ounce to save face and let him find his way around than to downtalk his car.

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Mackey58
Posted 2018-09-01 4:24 PM (#569380 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Member

Posts: 21

Location: port leyden ny
I have thick skin . My idea of rare is a low production #. Somebody show me a pic of a another this color then another this color with th GC. Rare is not an opinion. I contacted the FCA , thanks for the link. I ssembled the chassis into rolling today this week I will take my guysd lift the body from its resting place. I am not going to put up pics here because it’s a pain in the ass. I may make a page on my website where anyone interested can look at progress. Maybe not.
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Mackey58
Posted 2018-09-01 4:59 PM (#569382 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Member

Posts: 21

Location: port leyden ny
Anybody want to post pics for me? I can email them??
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-01 5:59 PM (#569384 - in reply to #569382)
Subject: Primer on Posting Photos - Methods 1 and 2



Expert

Posts: 3567
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Location: Lower Mainland BC
Mackey58 - 2018-09-01 4:59 PM

Anybody want to post pics for me? I can email them??


You can post your own photos. Just takes a little learning and a little work.

First thing is no (NO!!) iPhone "jpeg" photos. The system does not like them. Need to be "jpg" (no 'e')

Second thing is they need to be smaller than 250 kB to be up loaded directly to the forum. Linking to the photo source (not on your computer) has no limits.

Have a read on this:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=64340&...

Good luck.

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mstrug
Posted 2018-09-01 6:08 PM (#569385 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Expert 5K+

Posts: 5556
50005002525
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth)
No Pictures?



(thisthread2.png)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments thisthread2.png (107KB - 11 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-09-01 7:52 PM (#569388 - in reply to #569373)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



50005000500050002000100252525
Location: Parts Unknown
westwoodblue - 2018-09-02 11:25 AM
Seriously? Any one of these big-finned clunkers not junked before 1971 is rare. A "reality check" for a member making his first post, interpreting whether or not he wants to join an already dwindling community of an ever-decreasing supply of finned MoPars? It wouldn't have hurt an ounce to save face and let him find his way around than to downtalk his car.


=========================

Damm, Dude, ... got a case of the thin-skins ? No one is talking down
his car. It's an awesome car. One of the best ever made during the FL
era. Go fill out a Hurt Feelings Report and quit trying to turn this into
something it isn't.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-09-01 8:20 PM (#569390 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Expert

Posts: 3002
20001000
Yeah doc your always "gah these cars are everywhere!!" They arent
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57DODGECONV
Posted 2018-09-01 10:21 PM (#569394 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Elite Veteran

Posts: 642
50010025
Welcome to the site ,I find it hard to post pictures also ,with the options your Plymouth has and color combo it’s a rare 58 Plymouth.Good luck with it.
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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-09-01 10:40 PM (#569395 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Expert

Posts: 1706
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Location: Vancouver, BC

The FCA can supply a copy of the IBM build record on your car. It will have all the options listed as well as info on colour and trim,when it was built, etc. They need a copy of the registration, in your name, for your car. They used to decode the the options, etc. but they no longer do it. Now they will send you a copy of the IBM card gratis. You post a copy of the IBM card on this forum (with the card large enough to read) and let everyone here have a go at decoding it.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-09-01 11:57 PM (#569398 - in reply to #569390)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



50005000500050002000100252525
Location: Parts Unknown
mikes2nd - 2018-09-02 5:20 PM

Yeah doc your always "gah these cars are everywhere!!" They arent


======================================

Given current market funds, there is not a day where several 58 Furys aren't
available for purchase through the usual hobby channels. More, if you include
other models. If that means "rare" to you, we have different opinions of the term.
The car you could spend a lifetime trying to find and buy and perhaps never find,
THAT is my definition of "rare".

Are 58 Plymouth 2HT's on every street corner ? Of course not. Could a person
buy one any day of the week if they had money in hand and the knowledge of
where to look ? You bet they could.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-09-02 12:12 AM (#569399 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Expert

Posts: 3002
20001000
there is not any complete 58 furys for sale and certainly not "Several"... Compare this to a 57 Chevy...

There is one project for sale... that it... if you willing to pay big money any car is normally obtainable. Maybe a classic seller might have a high priced car?

https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1958/plymouth/fury/1010...

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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2018-09-02 12:55 AM (#569402 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Elite Veteran

Posts: 986
500100100100100252525
Location: CA
For me, the problem with specifically 1958 plymouths is that whenever you DO see one it will likely be some derivation of red and nearly every one being rebuilt will also likely have a big block motor.
1957 cars, 58 Savoys, Plazas all getting the belvedere trim treatment. I much prefer original-ish cars. There is NO question at all that a 1958 Plymouth Belvedere with a red/black sport tone color combination
factory equipped with the big block commando motor is rare. I have an appreciation for factory oddballs which seems like this car is regardless of what the rebuilding population is ruining, rather rebuilding...
I like seeing them regardless but only ever seeing the red paint being represented is getting darned old.. I spend about as much time around the red ones as I do a 57 chevy or a mustang.. not much.
The only exception for me would be a factory oddball which this one certainly seems to be. I look forward to seeing and following the rebuild!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-09-02 1:08 AM (#569403 - in reply to #569398)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



50005000500050002000100252525
Location: Parts Unknown
Maybe I should explain myself better ....

I think most car guys see "value" in having something rare. I see things
the other way around. I wish all these cars we love were everywhere, like
they were in 1963. I wish they were all $50 beaters, and I just got to enjoy
seeing them wherever I might go.

I see rarity as a negative. It drives surviving cars off the road and into
hideaways and museums. It drives values out of sight of the common car
guy. Who is going to "just drive" these cars when they get so expensive to
buy (and buy parts for) ? It ruins these cars as a hobby for anyone but those
with deep pockets. A bad thing, in my opinion.

My DeSoto is a rare car. 474 made, six confirmed to survive. That is a bad
thing in my eyes. I don't dare leave this thing anywhere for concerns of theft
or vandalism. Back when it was "just an old beater" and people weren't touting
how "rare" it was, I could park it anywhere and walk away for a week, come
back to find it just as I left it. Today, that "rarity" means ripping the trim and
parts off it and selling them on eBay of I do that.
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Mackey58
Posted 2018-09-02 8:29 AM (#569414 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Member

Posts: 21

Location: port leyden ny
I am actually hoping it is not something super special. I am a hot rodder not a restorer but I understand the importance of not ruining a special rare car. This was my fathers first car so it has sentimental importance to me.
So i went and got some #s for you guys to ponder. Both blocks are stamped L-350 underneath this 53706 on one 42562 on the other. My Vin is LP2 underneath this is a star symbol followed by 84063
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-09-02 1:52 PM (#569435 - in reply to #569414)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



50005000500050002000100252525
Location: Parts Unknown
L = 1958, so they are both correct 1958 blocks.

LP2 and the serial number sound right for the car you describe.

Other details of the build will be on the data tag, but often not all
are stamped there. The FCA printout is more detailed and accurate.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-02 2:21 PM (#569438 - in reply to #569414)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Expert

Posts: 3567
200010005002525
Location: Lower Mainland BC
Mackey58 - 2018-09-02 8:29 AM
I am actually hoping it is not something super special. I am a hot rodder not a restorer but I understand the importance of not ruining a special rare car. This was my fathers first car so it has sentimental importance to me.
So i went and got some #s for you guys to ponder. Both blocks are stamped L-350 underneath this 53706 on one 42562 on the other. My Vin is LP2 underneath this is a star symbol followed by 84063


Here is a list of 57 and 58 Plymouth model designations and VIN ranges for you to ponder:



(57-58PlymouthModelDesignationsAndVINs.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 57-58PlymouthModelDesignationsAndVINs.jpg (138KB - 8 downloads)
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Mackey58
Posted 2018-09-02 3:00 PM (#569443 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Member

Posts: 21

Location: port leyden ny
Ok great thanks! No data tag. I hope to find it in a box. Where was it located? Did all cars have them?
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1960fury
Posted 2018-09-02 3:48 PM (#569446 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Expert 5K+

Posts: 5423
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Location: northern germany
If a 58 Belvedere HT with a GC isn't rare, no car is, and we all know that. I wonder what was the reason to denie that. I bet just a handfull were built, guessing 40 at most, so maybe it is the last one in existence.
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57DODGECONV
Posted 2018-09-02 5:21 PM (#569454 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Elite Veteran

Posts: 642
50010025
Mike ,I went to check out that 58 Fury project car a few weeks ago.
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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-09-02 7:26 PM (#569464 - in reply to #569438)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Expert

Posts: 1706
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Location: Vancouver, BC
56D500boy - 2018-09-02 2:21 PM

Mackey58 - 2018-09-02 8:29 AM
I am actually hoping it is not something super special. I am a hot rodder not a restorer but I understand the importance of not ruining a special rare car. This was my fathers first car so it has sentimental importance to me.
So i went and got some #s for you guys to ponder. Both blocks are stamped L-350 underneath this 53706 on one 42562 on the other. My Vin is LP2 underneath this is a star symbol followed by 84063




For your engines :

If the info quoted on the engines is stamped on the blocks :

L-350 -
L - 1958 model year
350 - 350-cid (B block)

53706 - 52,706th L-350 built
42562 - 41,562nd L-350 built

For 1958 Plymouths (US built) the 230-cid flathead six engine number prefix was LP6 until March 26, 1958 when it became L230, the 318-cid V8 was LP8 while the Fury 318 was FLP.

For the 350-cid engine, the production sequence numbers would include all 350-cid engines built -
- Dodge Custom Royal and Wagons (295 bhp standard equipment)
- DeSoto Firesweep (280 bhp standard & 295 bhp optional)
- Plymouth (305 bhp optional Golden Commando V8 & 315 bhp EFI optional all but wagons)


VIN - LP2-84063
L - 1958 model year
P - Plymouth
2 - V8 engine
(No letter for assembly plant) - Lynch Road, Detroit
84063 - 83,063rd 1958 Plymouth V8 car of 139,484 1958 Plymouth V8 models built at Lynch Road.

The star was used to fill the sequential production number to 6 digits. The first car built was 1001 but Plymouth left two blank spots to the left of the 1001 and used the stars to fill the blanks. Thus the sequence would run **1001 to **9999, then *10000 to *99999 and finally 100000 to 140484.

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58Jackie
Posted 2018-09-03 12:47 AM (#569483 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Regular

Posts: 65
2525
Is there any way to tell if a motor is numbers matching to that car or not? Or do you just go off the L sign for 58 cars?
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arizona mopar gold
Posted 2018-09-03 1:26 AM (#569485 - in reply to #569483)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Extreme Veteran

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58Jackie - 2018-09-02 9:47 PM

Is there any way to tell if a motor is numbers matching to that car or not? Or do you just go off the L sign for 58 cars?

the IBM card will have the engines ID number on it
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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-09-03 1:36 AM (#569486 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Expert

Posts: 1706
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Chrysler started stamping the last eight digits of the VIN on the engine, transmission and various parts of the body in mid-1968. From 1960 through to mid-1968 it was the SON (Shipping Order Number) plus digits for the model year and assembly plant that was stamped on the body and appeared on the body tag, broadcast sheet and IBM card. Before 1957 or so Chrysler used to stamp the serial number and engine number on the chassis frame (hard to locate). But the 1957 to 1959 models had the serial number stamped on the chassis frame (also had to locate), but I'm not sure of the engine number.

However, the IBM cards usually had the engine number stamped onto it. I have a copy of a 1958 Plymouth built in Evansville with a 350-cid engine. And it has the engine number stamped onto it. Have also seen IBM cards from late in the model year with no engine number. Engine numbers were not recorded after 1958.

So, contact FCA Historical and see if you can get the IBM card for your car. If the engine number is stamped onto the card, your questions will be answered.

Should also point out that all B and RB engines for the US were built at the Trenton Engine Plant. So there will not be duplicate engine numbers as all assembly plants acquired their B / RB engines from the Trenton plant.



Edited by Chrycoman 2018-09-03 1:41 AM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-09-03 2:04 AM (#569488 - in reply to #569486)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



50005000500050002000100252525
Location: Parts Unknown
Going back to that rarity thing ...

Don't you just love when the auction guys hype up a "who cares?" kinda of
car, say a 1968 Olds Cutlass, describing it as one of three built, then giving
out lottery-odds numbers on the various options the car was built with. It is
still just a basic Cutlass, but with Bonanza Gold paint, tan vinyl top, bench seat,
mid-level radio, R-1 wheels, 3502bbl, TH350, 2-speed wipers and no fluid bottle,
234-code interior, bumper guards, and a toothpick left in the glovebox by an assembly
line worker, it is actually one of one, and thusly "Ultra-RARE" !!!
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-09-03 2:28 AM (#569491 - in reply to #569486)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Regular

Posts: 65
2525
Chrycoman - 2018-09-03 12:36 AM

Chrysler started stamping the last eight digits of the VIN on the engine, transmission and various parts of the body in mid-1968. From 1960 through to mid-1968 it was the SON (Shipping Order Number) plus digits for the model year and assembly plant that was stamped on the body and appeared on the body tag, broadcast sheet and IBM card. Before 1957 or so Chrysler used to stamp the serial number and engine number on the chassis frame (hard to locate). But the 1957 to 1959 models had the serial number stamped on the chassis frame (also had to locate), but I'm not sure of the engine number.

However, the IBM cards usually had the engine number stamped onto it. I have a copy of a 1958 Plymouth built in Evansville with a 350-cid engine. And it has the engine number stamped onto it. Have also seen IBM cards from late in the model year with no engine number. Engine numbers were not recorded after 1958.

So, contact FCA Historical and see if you can get the IBM card for your car. If the engine number is stamped onto the card, your questions will be answered.

Should also point out that all B and RB engines for the US were built at the Trenton Engine Plant. So there will not be duplicate engine numbers as all assembly plants acquired their B / RB engines from the Trenton plant.



Sorry, stupid question time, what is an IBM card?

Not meaning to hijack this guy's thread here, but talking about vins and motors made me think about mine.

Mine has the motor code stamped below the drivers side head, its not an L, (1958 car, Plymouth) but a P- series of numbers- another P. Also has a rebuild tag on it, reads rebuilt motor power pak. Its also a turquoise color.
Rebuilt factory warranty motor???

Can anybody answer this please?
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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2018-09-03 2:43 AM (#569492 - in reply to #569491)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Elite Veteran

Posts: 986
500100100100100252525
Location: CA
If your 58 is a poly 318 it should be a LP8xxxxxxx.
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Mackey58
Posted 2018-09-03 3:44 AM (#569494 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


Member

Posts: 21

Location: port leyden ny
Wow! Great and very informative info ! Much appreciated!
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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2018-09-03 4:28 AM (#569497 - in reply to #569494)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



Elite Veteran

Posts: 986
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Location: CA
Mackey58 - 2018-09-03 12:44 AM

Wow! Great and very informative info ! Much appreciated!


I'm guessing your car is like this beauty?



(rsz_58belvrb.jpg)



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Mackey58
Posted 2018-09-03 8:38 AM (#569510 - in reply to #569324)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


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Nope, that is sweet but mine is black with a red slash and roof
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ronbo97
Posted 2018-09-03 9:50 AM (#569513 - in reply to #569491)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??


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58Jackie - 2018-09-03 2:28 AM
Sorry, stupid question time, what is an IBM card ?

The IBM punch card was created when the car was built. These were later transferred to microfilm. When FCA does its research, it creates a print of the IBM card and that's one of the things you get sent to you. It has VIN, engine number options and other info included.

Ron

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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-03 12:02 PM (#569525 - in reply to #569513)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



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ronbo97 - 2018-09-03 9:50 AM

58Jackie - 2018-09-03 2:28 AM Sorry, stupid question time, what is an IBM card ?


The IBM punch card was created when the car was built. These were later transferred to microfilm. When FCA does its research, it creates a print of the IBM card and that's one of the things you get sent to you. It has VIN, engine number options and other info included. Ron


Agree. Based on a previous post of mine, I quoted Professor Doug Jones at the University of Iowa, who I had contacted regarding Automotive IBM cards:

"I have a special relationship to this card because one of my very first jobs was to write timesharing software to replace this kind of card for American Motors.

The basic procedure was that the salesman at the car dealer would fill out a paper form that detailed the make, model and options of the car he'd just sold. All of the options were described by numeric codes.

The filled sheets for the day's orders were (at various times) mailed or faxed to the company, where keypunch clerks transcribed them onto cards like the one you have.

The day's batch of cards for all dealers would then be sorted (using a card sorter) into batches according to body type and sent off to the different plants. (since each plant has a different mix of body types it's tooled up to make on its assembly line).

Then, at the plant, they'd run the deck through an accounting machine to create reports on the parts that were needed -- the inventory on hand had to be enough to manufacture all the cars in the deck, these reports were used to place orders for replacements.

A second set of reports would be generated at this step for each side assembly line saying to ready so many type 3 radios and so many type 9 engines.

Then, the card deck arrives at the head of the assembly line and one card is placed on the line describing the car that will be built in that slot on the line. The assembly line workers at each station looks at the card and then adds one widget of type X, as specified by the card. By the time the card reaches the far end of the line, the card has been slipped under the windshield wiper of the newly manufactured car, the serial number of the car has been stamped on the card, and a driver jumps into the car and drives it off to the place where cars destined to dealer 54506 are being parked awaiting shipping.

Along the way during this process, the card may be duplicated or run through other tabulation machines several times, but the card you have shows all the marks of having followed a car down the assembly line. It probably stayed with that car all the way back to the dealer. Note that this whole model of punched-card use was fully developed before computers were on the stage. It could all be done with unit-record tabulating machines and need not have involved computers. Given that this card is from 1956, this predates COBOL, and FORTRAN was a new product that year. It's unlikely that this card was ever processed by computer.

Now, as to card codes: The punch columns don't line up with the printing on much of the card. Only the printing on rows 8 and 9 is aligned with the punch columns. The printing on the top is aligned with the interpreter columns -- interpreters didn't print aligned with the punching, and to make things more difficult, the patchboard on the interpreter could rearrange things so the printing was completely rearranged from the punching. Decoding the card without documentation for the application is going to be very difficult.

Doug Jones
jones@cs.uiowa.edu"


My card (image from FCA Historical):





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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2018-09-03 8:24 PM (#569548 - in reply to #569510)
Subject: Re: Possible very rare 58 Belvedere. Looking for info and direction??



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Mackey58 - 2018-09-03 5:38 AM

Nope, that is sweet but mine is black with a red slash and roof


WOW I sure had a dyslexic moment there didn't I? LOL! Well that's even better. I don't think I've ever seen a jet black car with toreador red sport tone before. That'll be quite a rare and VERY sharp Plymouth. Not only is it in my opinion, one of the finest moments in auto styling history but those colors are going to really set it off beautifully despite what a pain in the rear black is for both the body guy and to care for and keep clean. I definitely want to see this car!
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