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Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-30 3:46 AM (#570932)
Subject: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One


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Location: Sydney

Hi all
Getting a little frustrated with all the cranking required after shes had a few days off and would like to fit an electric pump.
Its a stock 413 and stock Carter and from what I can gather, the cube type Facets are popular.
What is the consensus of an appropriate aftermarket electric pump type and psi rating.

Theres a few output pressures, 2.5-4, 4-6 and 4-7psi seem to be the common.

Which would be right?

TIA


 

Or this type

 

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wizard
Posted 2018-09-30 4:04 AM (#570933 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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The original Carter gave 3,5 to 5 psi, so if you want to use an electric pump instead of the mechanical one, then go for a 4 to 6 psi pump.

If you want to use the electrical pump as a priming pump only (push/suck through), then you could use whatever - higher pressure means shorter priming tim in that case.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-30 4:14 AM (#570935 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One


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Thanks for that.
Havent decided whether to use one for a priming pump or main pump yet.
I also read conflicting thoughts regarding inline in series, as a primer or to set up in parallel circuit with check valves.
Im hoping for simplicity that a pass through in series will work fine for priming.
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wizard
Posted 2018-09-30 4:45 AM (#570937 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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My friend runs with a small electric pump as a primer on his 58 Chevy with a pushbutton hidden under the dash - works flawless and no need to Think about emergency shut off....
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-30 5:31 AM (#570938 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One


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Sounds like the ideal solution. :-)
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Old Ray
Posted 2018-09-30 7:54 AM (#570942 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: RE: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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Seek and you will find; (aka search)

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=69504&posts=16&highlight=electric%20fuel%20pump&highlightmode=1#M570819

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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-30 8:07 AM (#570943 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One


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Okay thanks, read all that, didnt really tell me what I want to know (apart from suitable pressure).

So with the two pumps I have available to me above, are they flow through pumps that can be used in a series config and the electric only used for priming and startup?

All the other pumps mentioned in other threads are not readily available her.
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Old Ray
Posted 2018-09-30 9:57 AM (#570945 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: RE: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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 It seems to difficult to get a manufacture, for some reason, to say that their pump is suitable for flow through operation, but these guys do;

QUOTE: "Airtex E8251 Universal Solid State Universal Electric Fuel Pump: E8251 may be used as a booster or standby unit or as a completely independent fuel pump installation." 

 Available on Amazon.

 That is what I used, because of their statement, and it has worked well (big block) for 5 years as a in-line primer pump. 

 I guess that fuel injection would solve the problem (and create new ones) that's my next project. 

 

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hemidenis
Posted 2018-09-30 10:42 AM (#570949 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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Best solution I developed was install an electrical fuel pump in line with the mechanical. I connected the pump to a supplementary oil pressure switch. The pump will only prime when it is no oil pressure in the engine, meaning that it will only prime when the engine it is not running.
Also can be used as an emergency pump in case the mechanical fail, by just bypassing 2 wires.

The push button option makes no sense when you can do it automatically. Just turn the key and wait for a few seconds before crank the engine. These pulsate pumps tell you by sound when the carburetor is full.

I used the same brand as you pictured but another model.
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wizard
Posted 2018-09-30 10:53 AM (#570952 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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A mechanical pump should suck through most electric pumps that uses membranes.


Good idea with an extra oil pressure switch - which type did you use Denis?
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-30 6:24 PM (#570975 - in reply to #570949)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One


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hemidenis - 2018-10-01 1:42 AM

Best solution I developed was install an electrical fuel pump in line with the mechanical. I connected the pump to a supplementary oil pressure switch. The pump will only prime when it is no oil pressure in the engine, meaning that it will only prime when the engine it is not running.
Also can be used as an emergency pump in case the mechanical fail, by just bypassing 2 wires.

The push button option makes no sense when you can do it automatically. Just turn the key and wait for a few seconds before crank the engine. These pulsate pumps tell you by sound when the carburetor is full.

I used the same brand as you pictured but another model.


What an excellent solution....

But that leads me to a few other questions.

Supplementary oil switch, what type and where to position on engine block, is there a second location to use?
Would the switch have to be the opposite config, as in, normally closed and when engine running, would open circuit?


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hemidenis
Posted 2018-09-30 7:45 PM (#570980 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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if you have a BB it is another hole in the opposite side of the original. The switch could be any switch with the same thread. Electrically should be normally closed as the original (no oil pressure light on) and in our case pump on.

I will take a picture of the one in my car.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-30 8:20 PM (#570982 - in reply to #570980)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One


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hemidenis - 2018-10-01 10:45 AM

if you have a BB it is another hole in the opposite side of the original. The switch could be any switch with the same thread. Electrically should be normally closed as the original (no oil pressure light on) and in our case pump on.

I will take a picture of the one in my car.


Thats brilliant, thanks!
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wizard
Posted 2018-10-01 2:19 AM (#570996 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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One downside with an oil pressure switch is that there are no emergency shut off.

There are several 12 VDC timer relays, not too expensive.


This will give you possibility to adjust the pump time according to your pump and system and the pump will only run again once you switched off and on the ignition.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-10-01 6:10 AM (#570999 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One


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Just curious.....

But how many people have electric pumps with no emergency shut off?

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Phil_the_frenchie
Posted 2018-10-01 6:29 AM (#571000 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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I've a Facett "silver pump" since 15 years. I put an emergency shut off when my engine stalled after installing a new Edelbrock : one float was perforated and fuel overflowed in the engine !!!!!!!!!!! Problem, no oil switch on Imperial (mechanical gauge) so i installed a relay operated from the generator, with a by-pass switch (useful when the car wasn't started since several days.)

Edited by Phil_the_frenchie 2018-10-01 6:30 AM
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wizard
Posted 2018-10-01 7:52 AM (#571003 - in reply to #570999)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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I'd say 95 % didn't consider that an electric fuel pump might be a risk of fire.


Then, we have some who understood the risks and acted, like our Phil here above…...

1coolbanana - 2018-10-01 12:10 PM


Just curious.....

But how many people have electric pumps with no emergency shut off?

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Old Ray
Posted 2018-10-01 9:10 AM (#571006 - in reply to #570999)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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1coolbanana - 2018-10-01 4:10 AM Just curious..... But how many people have electric pumps with no emergency shut off?

Many, I would think.

Need the rules of the contest:

Is this for temporary dash switched primer / auxiliary pump or for a stand alone replacement for the mechanical pump that is in continuous operation. Or both?

The biggest reason for a emergency shut off is in case of accident or roll over and a fire fueled by a running fuel pump. This would be more applicable to a replacement continuously running pump switched by the ignition switch then a auxiliary pump controlled by a dash switch. Amount of time of operation.

What type of emergency shut off; a interruption of the electrical source (hard to switch when unconscious), a mechanical valve (hard to switch when unconscious), a automatic engine operation / impact / roll over switch similar to what new cars come with?

Just some food for thought.
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Phil_the_frenchie
Posted 2018-10-01 11:12 AM (#571009 - in reply to #571006)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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Here's the schema of my "safety switch" (when you haven't an oil pressure switch). When the engine stalls the pump is offline ! The manual switch helps to fill the carb bowls after 1 or 2 weeks.



(schema-pompe-elect-US.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments schema-pompe-elect-US.jpg (40KB - 4 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2018-10-01 12:14 PM (#571015 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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This switch seems like a very good idea at least if an electrical fuel pump is used instead of the mechanical pump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvwLA7gBg4w
https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-D1876D-Professional-Cut-Off-Switch/dp...

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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-01 4:08 PM (#571024 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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I like to keep things as simple as possible so a manual switch that can take the full current of the pump would allow you to solve the main issue of priming the carburetor, and then turning it off while driving. Pretty easy. No relay, pressure switches or extra fuss. It would also serve one other big task - to empty the fuel tank when you store the car, tear it down to work on it for an extended period, or to pull the fuel tank for some reason. Having an easy way to empty the tank is a real plus. A full manual switch seems to be the best solution here - at least for my purposes.
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hemidenis
Posted 2018-10-01 7:37 PM (#571030 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One



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Phil, you can use the vacuum switch in the intake manifold to accomplish the same thing. Phil diagram do electrically what the pressure switch does using the oil pressure.
Design a temporizer to control the time that the pump actuate is pretty easy, I never thought it will be necessary though, it just add more things that can go wrong.

I had this setup for more than 12 years and never had a problem, I also added a fuel pressure gauge near the carburetor, just to keep an eye in the mechanical pump.

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sermey
Posted 2018-10-03 1:49 AM (#571088 - in reply to #571009)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One


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Phil: . . .  "my engine stalled after installing a new Edelbrock: one float was perforated and fuel overflowed in the engine !!!!!!!!!!! Problem"  . . . .

Happened to me as well when my engine stalled in the garage, being absent by a call, for I use only a manual switch. Double the risk with dual carb systems.
Thus the oil pressure or vacuum switch offers the simplest and safest way. Otherwise the solution of Phil is clever and recommended.

For me the electric pump makes sense for an instantly startup, switched on 30 seconds before starting the engine. Then it can be switched off.

Want no problems in this matter (in FWL-Cars), then simply no electric fuel pump!  - SERGE -

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rebel
Posted 2018-10-03 10:13 AM (#571096 - in reply to #571088)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One


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I installed an inline electric pump back by the tank and hide a toggle switch under the dash. Flip the switch on for 15 seconds before cranking and the car fires right up. You could also use a momentary toggle switch.
I've used this same system on an older motorhome that had a tendency of vapor locking on hot days. I would turn the pump on going up long steep mountain passes and this cured all the issues.
Bob
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-10-03 6:22 PM (#571113 - in reply to #570932)
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps...Which One


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Thanks for all the great ideas and inputs so far

I have one of these pumps on the way and will for the short term, rig it to a switch under the dash and use for priming only at this stage.

If I decide to use it as the primary full time pump, Ill probably go the way of the pressure switch with manual bypass for priming.

Looks like a quality pump and pressure can be changed and set to whatever is required, preset by the seller to 4-6psi

 

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