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BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?
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jgallagher
Posted 2019-07-31 8:15 AM (#585413)
Subject: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?


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I m ready to put an engine in a 1958 Belvedere. I have a L78 BBC sitting here so I'm thinking of using it. Has anyone ever swapped a BBC into a forward look car. I have 400 turbo and a 8 3/4 rearend that I would be using also. Thanks.
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GaryS
Posted 2019-07-31 9:49 AM (#585419 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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Of course its been done. The problem is that you destroy the value of the car. The vast majority of Mopar enthusiasts will avoid you like the plague and GM enthusiasts will think you are nuts. I catch enough flak for modifying my salvage-quality Plymouth with all Mopar parts, and you would find it even more difficult to find folks who would understand and appreciate your project. It will be far more difficult and expensive than installing a big block Chrysler, and performance will be no better. Do yourself a favor and sell the Belvedere to someone who prefers staying loyal to dead and dying brands.

That said, it's your car and no one can prevent you from doing what you wish, but I doubt you'll find any help or kinship from the tiny Chrysler crowd.
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Handygun
Posted 2019-07-31 12:40 PM (#585430 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?


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X2 what Gary said.
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1960fury
Posted 2019-07-31 2:54 PM (#585433 - in reply to #585419)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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GaryS - 2019-07-31 9:49 AM

It will be far more difficult and expensive than installing a big block Chrysler, and performance will be no better. Do yourself a favor and sell the Belvedere to someone who prefers staying loyal to dead and dying brands.



I second that, only that the BBM is by far the superior engine. I believe the BBC has the largest rod angle of all big 3 post war passenger car V8s.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-07-31 6:56 PM (#585436 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?


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yeah i wouldnt do it, you can find a poly engine pretty reasonable.

I couldnt give away my 325 dodge. a 58 318 should be pretty reasonable.

if you car is nice and original put a stock engine back in if possible.

And at worst put a 60's mopar engine in it.

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mstrug
Posted 2019-07-31 9:21 PM (#585441 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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Don't. A Mopar Big Block was born in 1958! 350 and 361. Golden commandos came in 350 form with dual quads. Any later 383, 400, will fit also. tall blocks: 413, 426 wedge, 440 can be stealthy installed too.



(58plygolbencommandobronzemag..jpg)



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Attachments 58plygolbencommandobronzemag..jpg (169KB - 41 downloads)
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58Jackie
Posted 2019-08-01 1:12 AM (#585452 - in reply to #585441)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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I'm with Marc. You can more easily install a big block Mopar than you could with the chevy motor. You can use the same cup style motor mounts that are on the 318 polys for any big block Mopar you install. Its almost like a drop in installation. With the chevy motor, you'd have to get creative with the motor mounts, tranny mounts, probably need a chevy rear axle too.
I understand if you're a chevy guy and all, I have interest in other brands besides Mopar too. But I like to stay true to the brand; I wouldn't, nor have I seen, too many Mopar motors in Chevys, Fords, etc., vice-versa.
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mstrug
Posted 2019-08-01 7:02 AM (#585458 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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The poly Engine mounts will have to be modified to fit a BB and place it in the proper position in the engine bay. I left out the 1959+ 383, It's a tall block also, (RB) Raised deck block.
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1960fury
Posted 2019-08-01 8:48 AM (#585460 - in reply to #585441)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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mstrug - 2019-07-31 9:21 PM

Don't. A Mopar Big Block was born in 1958! 350 and 361. Golden commandos came in 350 form with dual quads. Any later 383, 400, will fit also. tall blocks: 413, 426 wedge, 440 can be stealthy installed too.


Actually the mighty Mopar Big Block was born in 1955 and the first cars they were put in (test mules) were 56s. It was officially available for the public in September 1957.
A "60s" Mopar engine would be the LA small block. I consider all MBB based engines 50s engines.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-08-01 12:50 PM (#585468 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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You should put a 6 cyl Toyota Camry motor into it. That would be awesome.
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wayfarer
Posted 2019-08-01 4:41 PM (#585475 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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...of course my vote is for an EarlyHemi...anyone can have a B-RB package......
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ABloch
Posted 2019-08-01 6:19 PM (#585478 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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BLASPHEMY!! Go back to where thou hast come from and take with thee your evil, vial, sacriligious thoughts!

You're new to the site. This site is full of purists and what you are asking is just plain wrong. Chevys get GM motors. Period.

I'm not sure if you just smacked the hornets nest to see what happens. But I can tell you get ready.

BTW do not mention that you are making another Christine clone or you will be burned at the stake!
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1960fury
Posted 2019-08-01 7:12 PM (#585483 - in reply to #585475)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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wayfarer - 2019-08-01 4:41 PM

...of course my vote is for an EarlyHemi...anyone can have a B-RB package......


So? Does that change your driving experience? I will never understand why some people make their decisions based on what other people do or have.

You will be way better of with a Mopar big bock. Less weight, more power and torque, cheaper, parts are readily available and most important of all, they are more reliable.
I mean, if you got gasoline in your veins you build a car for the ROAD and not for parking at a car show with the hood open. Sure, a Hemi looks more impressive than a modest big block, but only for those not familiar with old Mopar engines. Show me a guy who replaces a big block with an early Hemi and I show you a show-rodder.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-08-01 7:14 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-08-01 8:20 PM (#585491 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: RE: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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I wasn't going to reply but I have to agree with those that say: GM cars = GM engines, Ford = Ford and naturally, Mopar = Mopar. Mixing engine makes and car makes obviously can be done but there are at least as good Mopar options for your 58 Plymouth as a BBC. There is a whole cult following for making big reliable HP from Mopar 277-301-303-313-318-326 polys for example.

Have a look at this website:

https://cpwebstore.com/Poly



More: https://cpwebstore.com/Exhaust/Manifolds/Poly-SS-X-Manifold

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58coupe
Posted 2019-08-01 8:57 PM (#585497 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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In the late 60s I saw a 64 Barracuda sitting on a used car lot in Portland Or. so I decided to stop and take a look. I was a little surprised when the hood was opened up to see a small block. It was a very sloppy install, clearly done by an amateur. Needless to say they had a very hard time selling it.
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-08-01 9:14 PM (#585501 - in reply to #585497)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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58coupe - 2019-08-01 5:57 PM

In the late 60s I saw a 64 Barracuda sitting on a used car lot in Portland Or. so I decided to stop and take a look. I was a little surprised when the hood was opened up to see a small block. It was a very sloppy install, clearly done by an amateur. Needless to say they had a very hard time selling it.


That would be plain wierd. The 64 Barracudas could be had with a 273 small block (LA?) Mopar V8 as well as a 170 or 225 cu in slant six. I knew somebody back in the day who installed a 4 bbl manifold and carb on his 64 Barracuda 273 and, while it was not a giant killer, it could hold its own (4 spd manual).

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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-08-01 10:31 PM (#585509 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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Sid,

My dad just finished rebuilding a 1973 Mopar 440. Very modest rebuild, he has VERY LITTLE money into it. He had it on the dyno on Tuesday, it produced over 400 foot-pounds of torque from 2000 to 4400 RPM. Should be a fun street motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBX0woIw8CM
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57plymouth
Posted 2019-08-02 9:13 AM (#585520 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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It's your car, do what you want.

If you already have the BBC, I don't know how it could be cheaper to buy and build a BBM to put into it.

You will get lots of angry comments from people here. You can ignore them while you are driving around in your car.

I personally wouldn't do that swap. I would swap either a 5.7 hemi or an LS into it. I really want to 5.7 swap my 57 Plymouth. That will also anger people here.
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1960fury
Posted 2019-08-02 4:18 PM (#585541 - in reply to #585509)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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jboymechanic - 2019-08-01 10:31 PM

Sid,

My dad just finished rebuilding a 1973 Mopar 440. Very modest rebuild, he has VERY LITTLE money into it. He had it on the dyno on Tuesday, it produced over 400 foot-pounds of torque from 2000 to 4400 RPM. Should be a fun street motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBX0woIw8CM


It sure will be!
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ttotired
Posted 2019-08-02 6:04 PM (#585545 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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I wouldnt do it, I would swap the chev for a mopar engine, then fit that

I read above that you dont see mopar engines in fords, chevs ect, I call BS on that, hemi's in anything was the go for a long time.

Its only that the early hemi supply dried up and hemi engine parts got way to pricey (compared to a sb chev) that you dont see it as much

Hellcat engine would be nice

As said, a lot of purists here, but not all of us, I personally like to keep to brands, but its up to you.

I would ask this question on the HAMB, you might get a different reply but I doubt it

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jgallagher
Posted 2019-08-02 11:10 PM (#585555 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?


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I guess I wasnt prepared for the posts that took me to task for asking a question about a BBC engine swap. I wasnt trying to stir things up as it was a serious inquiry that I was hoping that someone else had done. I've been a member here for a few years but havent posted much just read a lot. I just finished a major car project and was making plans to start on the Plymouth that I previously mentioned.
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57chizler
Posted 2019-08-03 1:52 PM (#585579 - in reply to #585545)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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ttotired - 2019-08-02 3:04 PM



I read above that you dont see mopar engines in fords, chevs ect, I call BS on that, hemi's in anything was the go for a long time.





Here's a Hemi in a '55 Chevy. My first dedicated race car.



(Hemi55Chev (Small).JPG)



(Renegade (Large).jpg)



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Attachments Hemi55Chev (Small).JPG (22KB - 33 downloads)
Attachments Renegade (Large).jpg (98KB - 36 downloads)
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jgallagher
Posted 2019-08-04 1:08 AM (#585612 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?


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Nice
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-08-04 3:09 AM (#585618 - in reply to #585579)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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57chizler - 2019-08-03 10:52 AM

Here's a Hemi in a '55 Chevy. My first dedicated race car.


And a Dodge Hemi!!? What's not to like?

That said, I can say that I have seen lots of 55/56/57 Chevy and Ford 2dr sedans (usually) turned into gassers in the past. Was there a good reason for that? i.e. availability, cost, weight? You never saw 55/56 Dodges done the same way, hemi or not.

Just curious.

Even in this google search, there are only a couple of older Mopars (and they are photoshopped)

https://www.google.com/search?q=1956+Dodge+gasser+drag+car&client=fi...

These ones are a photoshop specials






Edited by 56D500boy 2019-08-04 3:11 AM
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b5rt
Posted 2019-08-04 8:07 PM (#585639 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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On the point of Mopar guys shunning a car without a Mopar engine. Many years ago the club I was in had their yearly Mopar show, a judged show. It clearly said that the car needed to be Mopar powered. A hot rod guy showed up with a late 30's 2 door sedan Plymouth, not perfect but pretty nice driver. When it came time for judging he got marked down for having a Chev engine, GM alternator, etc. With 25 engine points available he scored less than 5. I remember him grabbing the sheet off the car, crumbling it up and driving away. I don't know what he expected but he wasn't happy and the club would've refunded his admission fee if he wanted.

My point is what others have said. Stay true to the make. It will also make it much easier to sell if and when that time comes.
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wayfarer
Posted 2019-08-05 10:39 AM (#585660 - in reply to #585483)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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1960fury - 2019-08-01 4:12 PM

wayfarer - 2019-08-01 4:41 PM

...of course my vote is for an EarlyHemi...anyone can have a B-RB package......


So? Does that change your driving experience? I will never understand why some people make their decisions based on what other people do or have.

You will be way better of with a Mopar big bock. Less weight, more power and torque, cheaper, parts are readily available and most important of all, they are more reliable.
I mean, if you got gasoline in your veins you build a car for the ROAD and not for parking at a car show with the hood open. Sure, a Hemi looks more impressive than a modest big block, but only for those not familiar with old Mopar engines. Show me a guy who replaces a big block with an early Hemi and I show you a show-rodder.


...real sorry that my style of humor did not translate very well.......
Consider that the subject is not about replacing any engine in the car as it has no engine to start with.
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51coronet
Posted 2019-08-06 1:37 AM (#585683 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?


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What was in the car originally? Have you tried to find an engine and trans that would drop right in?

Some things people don't mention is the cost to make oddball engines and transmissions fit can end up costing a lot more than an original piece that fits right in with no mods. Will the speedo work with that trans? How about the temp gauge and that engine? (may be as easy as fitting the right sender but will it fit or are you going to need to customize?) Is the fore and aft spacing sufficient for fan spacing and the firewall mounted box for heat and AC if you have it? Customizing the trans cross member? Drive shaft modified for the correct length and u-joints plus trans yoke? PARKING BRAKE!!!! Aftermarket shifter?

Bottom line there is a lot of custom work when swapping out power plants and transmissions that will give headaches and cost more money than you originally anticipated. Be prepared for cutting, welding, and making custom fittings, brackets, etc. so it works.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-08-06 2:34 PM (#585721 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: Re: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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And after doing all that work and patting yourself on the back for getting it done well, everyone else hates it and you have a much harder time to sell it for much less money. That's the reality of the situation. But if you keep it forever, and that's what you want in it, then who cares, right?
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bad58mike
Posted 2019-08-06 11:08 PM (#585736 - in reply to #585413)
Subject: RE: BBC swap into 1958 Plymouth?



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yup I'm in the same boat, I'd never put a chevy in a mopar but I bought my 61 that way, and am having a hard time selling it. I'll just have to be patient, I do believe theres an ass for every seat, somebody will want her.





(IMG_3642.jpg)



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