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Crossram underwood special parts question
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Apollo 61
Posted 2019-11-03 1:35 AM (#589648)
Subject: Crossram underwood special parts question



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I have finally located a set of complete crossram inner fenders for my 61. My question is other then the actual engine parts is anything special I'm missing underhood? Is there any special brake,booster,master cyl, power steering bracket,pump,brake lines. Any Xram unobtanium I need to be looking for?
Another question? Since my 61 doesn't have its original 61 383,I'm leaning towards a 413 out of a 61 imperial and putting the factory BB 3spd Manuel behind it. I plan to use a 355 sure grip from 70 road runner. Is this a wise combo to use? Is there a reason that Chrysler didn't make many or any Xram 3speeds? Will a Xram work well with a 3spd?
Will the 61 imperial 413 automatic crankshaft bolt up to the 61 Plymouth 383 flywheel?

Also I sent some pics of the inner fenders to a master metal fabricator freind of mine and thinks he will be able reproduce them in metal if there's enough interest?
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-11-03 8:43 AM (#589656 - in reply to #589648)
Subject: Re: Crossram underwood special parts question



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I would go with a later 4 speed. Just a better, stronger transmission. But then again, I think I would put in a later 5 speed instead. Overdrive is a great feature for a manual trans. Makes the car a lot more fun on the freeway.

If you intend to put the later gear in your original axle, you will need to either swap the center pins to make the new gear compatible with your old axles, or carefully grind the axles down by 1/8".

The '61-older 413 trans is compatible with the '61-older 383.
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58coupe
Posted 2019-11-03 11:20 AM (#589663 - in reply to #589648)
Subject: Re: Crossram underwood special parts question



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I have done some research on the crossram engines and I believe the camshaft timing on the 60-61 engines was retarded 4 degrees for better top end performance. Not sure how Chrysler did this, either with a specially ground cam or with a special chain set. The later Chrysler letter cars had a more aggressive solid lifter cam and the "short" long ram. I had my long ram on a 350 and a 383, both with the stock cam and they ran well so I never tried to change the cams.
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Mr. Bob
Posted 2019-11-03 1:42 PM (#589672 - in reply to #589648)
Subject: Re: Crossram underwood special parts question


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You might be better off just using the 413 and the auto trans from the 1961 Imperial. 1961 and older cars came with cast iron torqueflights. 1962 and newer came with aluminum case 727s. You can't cross that boundary - 1961 and older motors are not compatible with 1962 and newer 727s, and 1962 and newer motors won't work with the older cast iron trans.

Not sure how using a 1961 motor will work with a newer manual 3 speed. There were I believe 4 Chrysler 300s crossram cars that came from the factory that with 4 speed manual trans. Yeah, those are unobtainium!

I just put a 1971 440 into my 1961 Newport, and put cross rams on it. I also used the 1971 trans that came with the motor. My shop had to custom fab the trans crossmember from the 1961 and 1971 crossmembers. The 440 dropped right onto the original 361 motor mounts, and fit like a glove with no issues.

I discussed with my shop cutting my stock inner fender wells to resemble the crossram inner fenders. In the end, since I did not have the factory crossram exhaust manifolds and related piping, they concluded it was not necessary to cut my fenders to access the spark plugs so we left them as is.
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StillOutThere
Posted 2019-11-03 6:56 PM (#589677 - in reply to #589648)
Subject: Re: Crossram underwood special parts question



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Location: Under the X in Texas
There were nine 300F Gran Turismo short ram 400HP cars built with the Pont-a-Mousson full synchro 4speed.
When they ran out of transmissions from France, but had requests for the cars from some heavy hitters like Briggs Cunningham and Carl Kiekhaefer, they built an addition 4 or 5 GT 400HP cars with the Torqueflite (which in a Letter Car is a heavy duty version to begin with).
Above information is from Burton Bouwkamp, who headed the Gran Turismo Project. He and I spoke over dinner in Austin, TX, with my 300F GT in front of a private residence at a reunion of Chrysler Engineering Institute graduates.
You may know that one 300G Gran Turismo documents in the build records and it left the factory with the 3speed manual. The trans was very quickly replaced. This G sold very recently.




(BurtWayne.JPG)



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51coronet
Posted 2019-11-04 12:48 PM (#589702 - in reply to #589648)
Subject: Re: Crossram underwood special parts question


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That would be an F. G had the headlights offset. Wish my F was in show shape. Rust-bucket waiting to be worked on.
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wayfarer
Posted 2019-11-04 6:43 PM (#589712 - in reply to #589648)
Subject: Re: Crossram underwood special parts question



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Is the BB 3-spd 62 or newer? If so, the late bellhousing and 3-spd will not be compatible with the
early crank/flywheel. Yes, you can change to a post-62 440 crank and flywheel and then all fits.
Just remember that the 1962 model year had alot of changes.
Most of the factory Mopar muscle cars with a 4-spd had the 3.55 axle standard.
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Apollo 61
Posted 2019-11-05 3:29 AM (#589729 - in reply to #589712)
Subject: Re: Crossram underwood special parts question



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wayfarer - 2019-11-04 6:43 PM

Is the BB 3-spd 62 or newer? If so, the late bellhousing and 3-spd will not be compatible with the
early crank/flywheel. Yes, you can change to a post-62 440 crank and flywheel and then all fits.
Just remember that the 1962 model year had alot of changes.
Most of the factory Mopar muscle cars with a 4-spd had the 3.55 axle standard.


No it the original 61 383 BB 3spd. I just remember hearing something about a different crank bolt pattern for 61 BB auto.
Powerflite,I hate to ask twice,so if it has the original 61 383 flywheel? The 61 383 flywheel will bolt to the 61 auto 413 crankshaft? I will have to have the 413 crank pilot bushing drilled? If I decide to go 4speed would I be looking for a 62-65 body?Thanks for rearend tip.

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Powerflite
Posted 2019-11-05 10:36 PM (#589795 - in reply to #589648)
Subject: Re: Crossram underwood special parts question



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Hopefully someone has direct experience here. I don't, but I have only ever heard of 2 bolt patterns: 6-bolt for the newer cranks, and 8 bolt for the older cranks & 426 hemi motors. So as far as I know, you would just need to concern yourself with the pilot bushing, and make sure your flywheel diameter (teeth count) is compatible with your bell housing. Most of the old cranks were drilled for the pilot bushing, but I can't make a definitive statement. If it isn't drilled, you can get a conversion bushing or bearing to make it work.

If you want to retain the ball & trunion, then an early 4 speed would give you that. If you want to get rid of it, then a later one (1965?-up) would be the way to go. A B-body version will probably place the shifter in the best location for you. You'll also need the hump in the floor to clear the shifter. One made for a '62 might work.
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wayfarer
Posted 2019-11-07 6:59 PM (#589874 - in reply to #589648)
Subject: Re: Crossram underwood special parts question



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Location: Central Ory-Gun
Just to clarify...prior to 1962, all of the crank flanges (L6 and V8) were of the same design and the flywheel registered on the OD of the flange.
Most of these flanges had 8-bolts although many 4-bolt and 6-bolt exist in various applications. Yes, you could finish a 6-bolt wheel to 8-bolts but,
stay away from 4-bolt flywheels. Side note: the 426Hemi uses the same 8-bolt pattern but the flywheel uses a different style of registration.
Generally, it is not advised to mix bellhousings; there is a slight difference between pre-62 and 62-newer due to the amount that the crank flange
projects from the face of the block.
If you have issues with a non-drilled crank then mount the pilot bearing in the flywheel.
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