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1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-06-14 2:08 PM (#612762 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Very smart on a wagon. There is so much weight back there that you need much more brake than most other cars. Even more if you are towing.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-06-14 4:26 PM (#612766 - in reply to #612762)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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No more brake adjustments, no more random lock-ups either. Had this same setup on my 1960 sedan and it worked beautifully.

Also in those pictures you can see my differential mounted parking disc brake. I sill need to mount the caliper mechanism and connect the cable to the original park brake pedal. On the long list of needs yet to take care of, but will be done after the car is on the road.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-06-17 12:22 AM (#612858 - in reply to #612766)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Disc brakes are done, system is bled and the car is mobile once again.

Then I moved on to roof trim. Since I was missing roof trim on the passenger side, I finally installed my grab handle and NOS roof trim on that side of the car. I had 3 missing clips on the roof, but I was able to re-use the three where the studs for the grab handle went through the body. Cleaned and sealed each hole and clip body putty. This was mostly about sealing up the roof, I have an appointment to have the exhaust done on July 9th and I'm going rain or shine.

I don't have the correct roof trim for the driver side, but I think I'll just cut down the full length piece that's on there now after I get the driver side grab handle on.



(thumb_IMG_2235_1024 2.jpg)



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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-06-17 12:37 PM (#612872 - in reply to #612858)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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jboymechanic - 2021-06-16 9:22 PM

Disc brakes are done, system is bled and the car is mobile once again.

Then I moved on to roof trim. Since I was missing roof trim on the passenger side, I finally installed my grab handle and NOS roof trim on that side of the car. I had 3 missing clips on the roof, but I was able to re-use the three where the studs for the grab handle went through the body. Cleaned and sealed each hole and clip body putty. This was mostly about sealing up the roof, I have an appointment to have the exhaust done on July 9th and I'm going rain or shine.

I don't have the correct roof trim for the driver side, but I think I'll just cut down the full length piece that's on there now after I get the driver side grab handle on.


I'm going to send you a message about your roof trim.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-06-22 12:06 AM (#612972 - in reply to #612872)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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A special thank you to Nick Taylor (NicksGarage) for hooking me up with a guy 5 minutes from work that had the original roof trim I needed to go along with my grab handles. On to the next item on the list.



(thumb_IMG_2267_1024.jpg)



(thumb_IMG_2268_1024 2.jpg)



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Attachments thumb_IMG_2267_1024.jpg (175KB - 256 downloads)
Attachments thumb_IMG_2268_1024 2.jpg (169KB - 258 downloads)
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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-06-22 12:33 PM (#612983 - in reply to #612972)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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jboymechanic - 2021-06-21 9:06 PM

A special thank you to Nick Taylor (NicksGarage) for hooking me up with a guy 5 minutes from work that had the original roof trim I needed to go along with my grab handles. On to the next item on the list.


Glad it worked out! Now get that exhaust installed so you can drive that wagon.
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AceS
Posted 2021-06-24 12:37 AM (#613040 - in reply to #612983)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Love those grab handles!

Will your girlfriend be doing some tailgate stunt poses as you cruise down the road? Sadly, my 60 has none so no stunts outta my gal
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-07-13 12:08 AM (#613459 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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I don't think my wife will be hanging out of the back any time soon. However, the exhaust is in and hope to go for my first real drive tomorrow.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-07-13 5:18 PM (#613479 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Going to call this one another success. Took it out for a 15 mile drive, everything seems ok. Steering is aligned pretty well, rides very nice, exhaust is great, trans shifts well, brakes are good, it just cruises great over all. Very happy to have another one back on the road.
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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-07-15 10:51 AM (#613527 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Two first drives in one week!
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-07-15 12:02 PM (#613532 - in reply to #613527)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Yes sir! What an awesome week it was. I drove the wagon to work yesterday, just over a 50 mile round trip. It was reliable, but I don't have any power when I mash the pedal to the floor. Or even in part throttle. First thing I'm going to do is install a fuel pressure regulator and gauge so make sure my fuel supply is steady. Then, if the fuel supply is good and the problem persists I'll see if I can narrow down the issue. Might install a A/F ratio meter so I can better tune.
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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-07-15 2:41 PM (#613541 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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What carb are you running? Is your vacuum advance working on the distributor?
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58coupe
Posted 2021-07-15 7:10 PM (#613543 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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If the timing is too retarded it won't have much power above idle.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-07-18 4:47 PM (#613585 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Ok, I now have a fuel pressure regulator and gauge, I’m set at 5 psi and it holds steady. I’m running an Edelbrock Performer 500 CFM on a factory 4 barrel intake with a half inch aluminum spacer. The car actually has some power now and I can actually hear the carb howl at WOT. I’m still not 100% dialed in, but it’s significantly better. I need to get my timing light back from my dad. Neither of us remember what the base timing is, but it hasn’t been adjusted since the motor went into the car. We did confirm the vacuum advance works when running on the test stand.
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oldwood
Posted 2021-07-23 9:39 AM (#613715 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon


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You better stick to Grabbing the handle. We know your not one of those that grabs the ...... That sure is a nice '61 Windshield. lol
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-07-28 11:46 PM (#613867 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Finally had a chance at another test drive tonight. Runs great before it warms up, the generic Cold to Hot factory temp gauge isn't very useful, but it gets up to half way to even about 5/8 across the range when warmed up. My old 1960 sedan settled in at about 3/8 of the gauge. I'm running a 160 F thermostat, as I was in the other 1960 I had. Car sometimes dies at idle when hot and is hard to restart. Haven't had a chance to trouble shoot, I had been chasing a fuel leak that I hoped would resolve this issue, but it hasn't.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-08-02 11:15 AM (#613956 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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I didn't have my timing light back yet, so I did my best to re-time the car with a vacuum gauge. My starting point was 21" Hg, so I advanced the distributor at idle until the gauge peaked at 24.5" Hg. Then I backed it off until it was at about 23.5" Hg. Shut the car off and restarted, could hear that the ignition was too advanced so I bumped it back a little more. Still had 23" Hg at idle, no more fighting to start after that. Drove another 75 miles so far, gauge hasn't gone over 3/8 of the gauge and the engine is more responsive and pulls stronger too. Getting there.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-08-27 11:45 AM (#614542 - in reply to #613956)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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So I've driven this car about 250 miles so far this summer, the engine and transmission seem solid and I'm not having any more issues with higher than expected engine temperatures. However, the front end has developed some fairly loud clunks, need to look into that. Keep in mind everything seemed solid when I put the new disc brakes and center link in this car, but some of the original bushings and joints might have loosened up now that there is an engine and trans in the car and I've been driving it. I really need to fix the headlights and the front driver turn signal. A working horn would be nice to have too.
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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-08-27 1:22 PM (#614544 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Since I've had my '60 Chrysler wagon on my lift the past year and a half, it has been up and down many times. The bushings all looked good but now they're falling apart. After sitting for nearly 40 years, they have deteriorated and now can't handle the meager exercise they are getting now. I'd check your strut rod bushings to see if they have fallen out. That will cause a lot of clunking. Especially when changing direction.

You need a bumper sticker that says "HORN BROKEN, WATCH FOR FINGER"
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-09-02 3:08 PM (#614689 - in reply to #614544)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Turn signal and head light issues have been resolved, two bad ground wires were the issue (one to the turn signal housing and one from the driver low beam to body).
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-09-02 4:29 PM (#614694 - in reply to #614689)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon


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Jumping in a little late on this discussion.

Vacuum gauge is actually a great way to set timing. Your timing sounds way too advanced. Do you have vacuum advance disconnected and plugged ?

If your base reading is 21" hg, then you are way too advanced. What idle are you reading this at ? At slow idle in gear, say 500 rpm, you should be seeing around 17/18". At a higher rpm (in neutral obviously), maybe 20 max.

Also, you should be running a 180 thermostat. Not 160. If you think 160 will keep your engine cooler, then you misunderstand how cooling systems work.

Ron

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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-09-02 11:40 PM (#614704 - in reply to #614694)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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ronbo97 - 2021-09-02 3:29 PM

Jumping in a little late on this discussion.

Vacuum gauge is actually a great way to set timing. Your timing sounds way too advanced. Do you have vacuum advance disconnected and plugged ?

If your base reading is 21" hg, then you are way too advanced. What idle are you reading this at ? At slow idle in gear, say 500 rpm, you should be seeing around 17/18". At a higher rpm (in neutral obviously), maybe 20 max.

Also, you should be running a 180 thermostat. Not 160. If you think 160 will keep your engine cooler, then you misunderstand how cooling systems work.

Ron



I did have the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged, when it is connected I'm using the ported vacuum on my carb. I'm idling at about 700 RPM in neutral (stick shift) and normally I would agree with you about being too advanced, but the car starts easy, doesn't surge and pulls hard now.

I'm curious about your thermostat comment, how does the thermostat not allow my engine to run cooler? Doesn't the thermostat essentially (and roughly) set the bottom end of the engine's operating temperature range? If ambient conditions are right and there is sufficient air flow through the rad, the engine should then run cooler.
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-09-03 12:21 AM (#614705 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Combustion engines run more efficiently at higher temperatures, in pure theory. But beyond about 200 F, the coolant, oils, rings and other materials start to have issues, limiting how hot you can really run it. 180 F is a good compromise under these considerations and that's the temperature that manufacturers design the engines to run at. Running cooler than that means that your motor isn't running as efficiently as it could, and a lower thermostat setting is sending the water out for cooling before it gets to a higher temperature. If your cooling system is inadequate to keep your engine cool enough so that the heat in is greater than heat out through the radiator, then your temperature will continue to rise above the thermostat setting until it ends up at it's equilibrium point, regardless of the thermostat setting. In this case, the only thing the cooler thermostat does is to send the hot water out to be cooled sooner, so that it can delay the problem a little while (maybe a minute or so?), but otherwise does nothing to help you. If the radiator doesn't have any problem keeping the motor at whatever temperature you set the thermostat to open, such as during the winter months, then your motor will be running unnecessarily cold and less efficient during those times.
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-09-03 10:57 AM (#614719 - in reply to #614704)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon


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jboymechanic - 2021-09-02 11:40 PM I did have the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged, when it is connected I'm using the ported vacuum on my carb. I'm idling at about 700 RPM in neutral (stick shift) and normally I would agree with you about being too advanced, but the car starts easy, doesn't surge and pulls hard now.

You risk detonation (pinging) with engine timing that is excessively advanced. Also starting problems. I would dial it back a bit. It will also start easy, won't surge and will pull just as hard.

Ron

BTW, great explanation, Nathan !

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Mopar1
Posted 2021-09-04 10:54 AM (#614755 - in reply to #614719)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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According to info published by Summit cyl wall wear is 3X higher with a 160 vs 180-195 thermostat. Sludge builds easier in a cooler engine, especially if still running the puke tube instead of PCV valve.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-10-15 10:05 AM (#615904 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Another small update, I disassembled and cleaned all the contacts of the headlight switch from my '61 Plymouth that I parted out in the spring. All the outputs were working properly so I installed it and now finally have working dash lights! I also drilled all my seat belt mounts using some leftover red belts from the Imperial, install will be fast and easy once the blue seat belts arrive. Got my horns working too.

Other than that, just been driving it here and there and I'm up to 378 miles on the car since getting it back on the road earlier this year.
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oldwood
Posted 2021-10-25 10:01 PM (#616290 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon


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NICE
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-10-27 9:51 AM (#616323 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Good to see you here again Dorsey.

I put this car in winter storage already, mostly to make room in my garage for a couple snowmobiles I'm working on. I've received my WI collector plates for the wagon, so those will go on the car next. Projects for next spring include fixing the rear tailgate window (new worm gear box and coupler to the motor) and going through the front suspension (alignment, fix my sway bar links, new front shocks).
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jboymechanic
Posted 2022-05-09 4:05 PM (#621357 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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It has been a while, but the car is out of storage for the year and I've already put a good 75 miles on her. Fixes so far this season include a proper horn fix (putting a 10-32 machine screw through the steering joint with a ground strap from the screw up to the steering shaft with a hose clamp so my horn actually works when pressing the horn ring), I discovered that my rear tailgate window switch works just fine once it's connected and I fixed the clunk in the front end (had to remove the mount for the passenger side strut rod, do some heating and bending and then properly re-install). Car is going down the road better than ever.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2022-06-27 10:21 AM (#622416 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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I've swapped out my tires on this car, I wanted to go bigger for two reasons; fill up the large wheel wells more and adjust "gearing". I had 255/60R15 tires in the rear and 235/60R15 tires up front. I now have 255/70R15 rear and 235/70R15 up front, or about 2 more inches of OD all the way around. My first gear ratio is very short (3.83 first gear x 3.31 axle = 12.68 total), so I wanted a taller tire to extend the usefulness of that gear. The larger tires also look better (to me) as the wheel wells don't look so empty. The handling is better with the larger front tires as well, the shorter tires were actually too sensitive for the car previously. My best economy with the previous tires was 16.5 mpg, so curious to see if I notice any change.
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-07-01 11:54 AM (#622515 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Larger tires can only get you so far. I have 235/70/15's on my '60 New Yorker as well, but those 255/70/15's sound quite large. Can you post a picture of them?
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jboymechanic
Posted 2022-07-06 9:32 AM (#622677 - in reply to #622515)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Yes, here they are:



(255 70 R15 rear tires size reduced.jpg)



(Plymouth wagon new wheels and tires cropped resized.jpg)



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Attachments 255 70 R15 rear tires size reduced.jpg (172KB - 108 downloads)
Attachments Plymouth wagon new wheels and tires cropped resized.jpg (179KB - 112 downloads)
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jboymechanic
Posted 2022-07-06 9:58 AM (#622679 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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I also fixed my rear window mechanism this last weekend, turns out the my worm-driven gear had several teeth missing. I was able to replace the gearbox with a NOS assembly I bought a while back and I lubed everything up. Window works great now.
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-07-06 10:20 AM (#622680 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Thanks, not as big as I expected them to be. Looks great on there. They look very similar in size to my 275/60/15 tires.
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NicksGarage
Posted 2022-07-06 11:40 AM (#622681 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Here's my wagon with 235/70-15 tires. Same space as on your wagon and even the same wheel opening. Same basic wheels as your cop wheels. These are 15x7 Magnum GT wheels. Lots of room left. Even though there is a lot of room in the front, turning becomes a problem.




(wheels.jpg)



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jboymechanic
Posted 2022-07-07 10:23 AM (#622704 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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She looks great Nick, did you ever get it running? Or is an engine rebuild in order?
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NicksGarage
Posted 2022-07-07 6:11 PM (#622710 - in reply to #622704)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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jboymechanic - 2022-07-07 7:23 AM

She looks great Nick, did you ever get it running? Or is an engine rebuild in order?


Never got it started. Couldn't get around the low compression, probably caused by stuck rings. Moved it over to my house garage for now so I could work on other projects in my shop. Plus I bought a 1960 Imperial that has been sitting since 1980 so another one I have to try and get running.

Was a lot of fun getting it moved to the garage with it not running and having no brakes. Had to jack the front of the trailer way up to get it off there as my driveway is uphill.





(garage.jpg)



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jboymechanic
Posted 2022-08-31 12:43 PM (#623946 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Just thought I'd state that I have 1700 trouble-free miles on this car since putting it back on the road. I have installed a water temp gauge, I've never gone over 180F. Trans is shifting smoothly into all gears and I consistently get at least 14 mgg at every fill-up.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2023-05-17 4:59 PM (#629622 - in reply to #623946)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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I now have over 2,000 miles on this car since putting it back on the road, all while continuing to address existing minor issues. So far this year, I've done the following:
- Just installed a new Saginaw power steering pump. No more leaking and it's also positioned away from the lower radiator hose which was actually rubbing the bottom of the PS pump that was in the car.
- Installed new rear leaf springs, which also included sand blasting and painting all the mounts and shackles. New bushings and hardware as well and a lot of cleaning underneath the car.
- Speedometer now works thanks to the Speedhut Speedbox GPS unit. This provides a mechanical output based on GPS signal since my 5 speed doesn't have one. It is very accurate and reliable.
- Rebuilt and installed a mopar electronic distributor with Nathan's (PowerFlite's) HEI conversion kit and lighter mechanical advance springs. Noticeably better cold starts, idle quality and responsiveness.
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AceS
Posted 2023-05-22 12:48 AM (#629728 - in reply to #629622)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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How accurate is the Speedhut unit? Is there some sort of adjustment that is made based on the make of speedometer?
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Powerflite
Posted 2023-05-22 8:19 PM (#629756 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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As far as I know, all speedometers are made to spin at 60mph for 1000rpm. So there is no difference between makes. But some old speedometers need to be re-calibrated. If you correct for the lack of calibration either through mechanical gearing or this speedhut box, your odometer will then be off.

Edited by Powerflite 2023-05-22 8:20 PM
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jboymechanic
Posted 2023-06-26 9:48 AM (#630418 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Just thought I'd share that I drove this car to St. Paul, Minnesota, for the Back to the 50s car show. It was a 740 mile round trip and the Plymouth did great other than some vapor lock after exiting the freeway once I reached registration on a very hot (93 degree) Friday afternoon. Incredibly pleased with this car.
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