The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Transmission and Rear AxleMessage format
 
56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-20 9:00 PM (#593246)
Subject: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6427
5000100010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
.
The quick answer is NO!! Absolutely NOT!! At least if you have to have a shop do the conversion work for you. Ouch.

The visible change is the four button shifter is now a five button shifter. Driving, I have 3 speeds but I don't think that it was worth it. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but.....If I knew then what I know now, I would have put the money into paint or something else. Live and learn. Too soon old/too late smart. ;p)

Anyway, it's done and paid for (sort of - Mr. VISA will want to be paid at the end of the month.)

Before, followed by today's after:



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-01-20 9:05 PM




(DaveFsPowerFliteShifter_Unlit.jpg)



(DaveFs56DodgeD500WithTFShifter_1.jpg)



(DaveFs56DodgeD500WithTFShifter_2.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments DaveFsPowerFliteShifter_Unlit.jpg (124KB - 76 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs56DodgeD500WithTFShifter_1.jpg (146KB - 78 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs56DodgeD500WithTFShifter_2.jpg (114KB - 76 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-20 9:30 PM (#593249 - in reply to #593246)
Subject: Re: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Expert

Posts: 1927
100050010010010010025
Location: Muskego, WI
Don't you enjoy driving it so much more with a real first gear? I've had a few cars with PowerFlite trans and I couldn't stand how slow they were. One was my 1960 Belvedere, which is now a 5 speed manual and I enjoy driving it so much more now.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2020-01-20 10:53 PM (#593251 - in reply to #593246)
Subject: Re: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6796
50001000500100100252525
Location: So. California
The real benefit with them for me is that I can then pur a much higher gear in the rear end so I can cruise fast with much lower rpm and fuel consumption. Using a high gear with a powerflite is not a good combination.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2020-01-21 9:05 AM (#593264 - in reply to #593246)
Subject: Re: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6600
50001000500100
Location: northern germany
I couldn't imagine drving with one gear less from 3. What Nathan said, I wish I could convert to 4 speed for a higher gear in the rear.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DepsilonD
Posted 2020-01-21 1:22 PM (#593277 - in reply to #593246)
Subject: Re: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Elite Veteran

Posts: 791
500100100252525
Location: Buena Park, CA
Dave F. what did you use for your conversion?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Old Ray
Posted 2020-01-21 4:27 PM (#593289 - in reply to #593264)
Subject: Re: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 421
100100100100
Location: Invermere B.C. Canada - Rocky Mountains
1960fury - 2020-01-21 7:05 AM I couldn't imagine drving with one gear less from 3. What Nathan said, I wish I could convert to 4 speed for a higher gear in the rear.

..... or a three speed with overdrive.




(plymouth with dakota 2 (422 x 317).jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments plymouth with dakota 2 (422 x 317).jpg (56KB - 78 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-21 4:42 PM (#593290 - in reply to #593277)
Subject: Re: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6427
5000100010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
DepsilonD - 2020-01-21 10:22 AM
Dave F. what did you use for your conversion?


I used a cast-iron A-466 that had been taken out of a 57 Windsor. I wanted to stay with the air cooled torque converter which the 57 Windsor Torqueflite used. I am not going to be hammering on it or towing anything so I didn't need/want the liquid cooled version. I got one from Dave S. (finruskw) in Iowa as noted in this thread:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=70335&...

I had it completely rebuilt with a rebuild kit that I lucked into on the internet.

When I get over the cost of my conversion, I am going do a write-up so others can avoid the "mistake$" that I made on mine.

As received (about a year ago):



After some external cleaning prior to the rebuild:







(DaveFs1736413Case1736544K_TFtransmission_DriversSide_AfterSomeCleaning.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments DaveFs1736413Case1736544K_TFtransmission_DriversSide_AfterSomeCleaning.jpg (154KB - 74 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-21 10:16 PM (#593301 - in reply to #593290)
Subject: Re: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Expert

Posts: 1927
100050010010010010025
Location: Muskego, WI
Dave,

Now you need to do what Nathan mentioned to really enjoy the benefits; get a taller rear gear.

If you have 3.54 gears...

PF 1st gear is 1.67 so overall ratio is 5.91 and of course 2nd is direct so 3.54

TF 1st gear is 2.45, so you can go to 2.76 gears and still have better acceleration with an overall first gear ratio of 6.76 and then you have the taller cruising gear in 3rd. So better acceleration and better cruising economy (and reduced noise and engine wear).

Your should be enjoying the better acceleration now, but you're not getting any better economy.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-22 3:46 PM (#593334 - in reply to #593301)
Subject: Re: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6427
5000100010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
jboymechanic - 2020-01-21 7:16 PM
Dave, Now you need to do what Nathan mentioned to really enjoy the benefits; get a taller rear gear.
Your should be enjoying the better acceleration now, but you're not getting any better economy.


Thanks for the suggestions re: rear diff ratios. Won't be happening. I don't do enough highway driving to warrant the extra expense. And besides some of the driving that I will be doing involves mountain passes and/or local hills where I found that with the PF, L was too low (too high revs) and D was a dog. I am hoping that the TF 2 will solve that issue.

At Dave H's suggestion, while I was making a gasket for behind the shifter plate, I swapped out the TF buttons and installed the PF buttons because a) they fit perfectly and b) their colour is OE (green). Now I just have to deal with the "2" button.



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-01-22 4:21 PM




(DaveFs56DodgeD500WithTFShifter_AndPFButtons.jpg)



(DaveFs56DodgeD500WithTFShifter_AndPFButtons_LightsOn.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments DaveFs56DodgeD500WithTFShifter_AndPFButtons.jpg (118KB - 74 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs56DodgeD500WithTFShifter_AndPFButtons_LightsOn.jpg (80KB - 74 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-26 9:47 PM (#593444 - in reply to #593246)
Subject: RE: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6427
5000100010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
.
The rain actually stopped for most of the day today (Sunday Jan 26th) and the sun came out (but not 100%). I waited for the roads to dry up a bit and then took the old girl for a torqueflite spin. I do like the three speeds better than the two speed PowerFlite which has too much of a gap between the L and D ratios for my liking. Having an intermediate ("2") gear makes the car seem more normal, i.e. modern (my wife's 2013 Hyundai Elantra has a 6 spd automatic, 3 spd is more modern than 2 but not as modern as 6 or even 3 with an overdrive). But is is still more modern (I had a 68 Fury I with a 318 2 bbl and 904 1972-1978 and the 56 Dodge now feels similar)

I mostly let the transmission shift itself but at one light on an urban highway, I put the transmission in "1" and gave it the beans off the line. I manually shifted to 2 and then to D and it was pretty good. At one point around 60 mph in D, I tromped hard on the gas and it did shift down to 2 and it accelerated pretty hard. Not as good as my 280 hp Audi 4.2L four cam V8 6 spd manual but okay.

At this point, I am not sure about a couple of things:

1. The throttle linkage (at full pedal to the metal are all four barrels opened up?)
2. The speedometer calibration. Seems to be indicating higher speed than reality. I will have to correlate the tach reading to indicated speed and determine whether I need to change the speedometer drive gear.

So, the cost of the conversion was too much to recommend it to anyone but the results *might* be okay.




Edited by 56D500boy 2020-01-26 11:28 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
wizard
Posted 2020-01-27 3:04 AM (#593445 - in reply to #593246)
Subject: Re: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 12256
5000500020001001002525
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island
I have no clue about how much dough you put into it Dave, but I'd say it's worth the effort and all the work.
Think of all you learnt and shared about this project - priceless for the members here that would like to do the same modification.
I also think that you'll get a better milage with the cast iron hog, even without changing the rear axle ratio. That is if you're not enjoy WOT and kick-downs too much.

Many times I have thought that I must be insane to put in a lot of money and work in all my options and updates, but I really enjoy the process too much for to stop and the spent money will soon fade in memry.

The process is really very interesting;

-To learn that this option/modification existed
-To search more information and knowledge
-To finally find the coveted item/s
-The dissapointment of the state of the item/s
-The restoring of the item/s
-The mounting and testing of the item/s
-The pride and joy of to finally sorted out everything and being able to use the item/s
-The joy of sharing your knowledge to other enthusiasts

So, yes, in my opinion it's always worth it
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-27 9:01 AM (#593450 - in reply to #593445)
Subject: Re: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6427
5000100010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
.
Sven: Thanks for the very wise and reflective words. It was definitely a process/journey to get this done. Probably started well over a year ago on it, gathering the parts, etc.

I will be doing a step by step "DIY" on how to do this conversion better and for less money very soon. That will complete the process/journey for me.

Thanks again.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mopar1
Posted 2020-01-28 5:33 AM (#593500 - in reply to #593444)
Subject: RE: Is converting a 56 Dodge V8 from Powerflite to Torqueflite Worth it?



Expert

Posts: 2814
2000500100100100
Location: N.W. Fla.
56D500boy - 2020-01-26 8:47 PM

.

1. The throttle linkage (at full pedal to the metal are all four barrels opened up?)
2. The speedometer calibration. Seems to be indicating higher speed than reality. I will have to correlate the tach reading to indicated speed and determine whether I need to change the speedometer drive gear.




Best I recall one of "Mr. Norm"'s tricks on Mopar muscle cars was to get the throttle set up where it actually open the carb all the way, instead of part way. Unless the donor car had the same ratio axle as yours does the speedo will be off. I used a 9" in my '60 Plym. 3:1 gears and a 727. no idea what the OEM axle was, had a /6, but at 50 it was showing 60-65. Used a Garman to check. Tranny guy changed gears to where it "on" at 50 but still off a bit at 60. Guess I should have used 2.75 where that's almost the same as Mopar's 2.73
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2020-02-01 2:47 AM (#593693 - in reply to #593450)
Subject: Using the Reverse Servo test port for a Reverse Light Switch



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6427
5000100010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
.
One small plus in this Torqueflite installation $aga was the reverse light switch. Like the 1957 Torqueflite control boxes, the 1673 906 late 56 Chrysler (and Imperial) (and 57 D100 truck) shift box came with a mechanical reverse switch attached to left side of the shifter box:



While I was fully prepared to create "patch" harness to connect this Torqueflite shifter mechanical reverse switch and the OE Powerflite reverse pressure switch harness, that was *NOT* necessary. One day when I was visiting the transmission shop doing the A-466 rebuild and install, the tech who did the rebuild wondered out loud whether the Powerflite reverse switch (which is a two pin pressure switch, much like the OE brake light switch) would work on the Torqueflite if it was installed on the A-466 Reverse/Low servo test port (which is normally filled with a threaded plug). It took 2 minutes to confirm that the threads on the Powerflite reverse switch were the same as the Torqueflite Reverse/Low Servo test port plug. SO it was agreed, that during the install, the Powerflite reverse switch would be swapped onto the A-466. And that is what happened. The wiring was long enough (as were all the cables (eBrake and Speedo and Neutral Safety Switch) so it was a really good idea that the tech had. (Thanks Chris).

The reason that this works is because the PowerFlite reverse switch is a pressure switch and when it is installed on the Reverse-Low Servo test port, it is activated by the higher pressure of the Reverse Pump (225 psi or so) but not by the lower pressure when LOW ("1") is engaged. At least that is what the A-466 manual that I have implies (see diagrams below)

Here is what it looks like:




(DaveFs1736413Case1736544K_TFtransmission_PassengerSide_ShowingReverseServoTestPort.jpg)



(PowerFliteReverseSwitchInstalledInA-466TorqueFliteReverseServoTestPort.jpg)



(A-466ControlSystemInReverse.jpg)



(A-466ControlSystemInLow.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments DaveFs1736413Case1736544K_TFtransmission_PassengerSide_ShowingReverseServoTestPort.jpg (178KB - 68 downloads)
Attachments PowerFliteReverseSwitchInstalledInA-466TorqueFliteReverseServoTestPort.jpg (147KB - 71 downloads)
Attachments A-466ControlSystemInReverse.jpg (199KB - 77 downloads)
Attachments A-466ControlSystemInLow.jpg (198KB - 78 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread



(Delete all cookies set by this site)