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Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-03-18 6:44 PM (#595731)
Subject: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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Sometime (almost 2 years) ago, I wrote:

56D500boy - 2018-05-08 7:13 AM

The real fix is dumping the OE cannister and buying a Hot Heads Spin-on adapter.

http://www.hothemiheads.com/oiling_system/oil_filter_adapter_30d.ht...




Since then, I bought, but did not install, a HotHemiHeads 30 deg spin-on adapter and a WIX 51085 filter.

Today, I decided to finally bite the bullet and remove the OE canister and install the spin-on adapter.

I "cracked" the 5/8" hex nut on the top of canister and then let the filter and canister drain until no more oil came out. After spinning the nut/can all the way, I then tried to get the canister assembly out. So far NOPE!! Not sure how they were supposed to come out, if at all (maybe SOP was to just swap in a new cartridge and never remove the canister). (??)

An issue for me might be the "new" Torqueflite filler tube but I can't see that it is much different than the OE Powerflite fillter tube.

Having a coffee for a few minutes and then going back out to the garage to try again.

Any hints suggestions welcomed.





Edited by 56D500boy 2020-03-18 9:53 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-03-18 9:48 PM (#595736 - in reply to #595731)
Subject: RE: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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Figured it out.

I needed to be 110% committed to this swap. That meant that I had to remove the OE oil filter base from the block before trying to get the canister out of there. Using a long extension and a 9/16" socket through the fender splash guard area, I was able to loosen and remove the four bolts that hold the filter base to the block. Once the bolts were out, the trick was to remove the base from the engine bay by wiggling it a bit and then passing it through the space between the center-dump exhaust down pipe and the oil pan and then down and out.

Once the filter base was out, the canister assembly could manipulated in a similar fashinon and removed in the same way: between the downpipe and the block.

Now to clean up the OE filter base area on the block and install the HotHemiHeads adapter.

(OE parts in question are obviously Items 70 and 81 below:)



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-03-19 2:12 AM




(HemiEnginePartsMap.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-03-19 12:12 AM (#595738 - in reply to #595731)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter


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yeah mine went right on. my hemi had no oil filter on it.

i was going to go remote, but i didnt like snaking around headers
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-03-19 10:43 AM (#595743 - in reply to #595738)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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Was going to say it's really straight forward (excuse the pun!). By the way it's "Hot Heads". Hot is just part of the address.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-03-19 11:20 AM (#595747 - in reply to #595743)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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Mopar1 - 2020-03-19 7:43 AM
Was going to say it's really straight forward (excuse the pun!). By the way it's "Hot Heads". Hot is just part of the address.


It might be "straight forward" if the car is on a hoist but working from the garage floor with the car jacked up a bit (and on jack stands), it wasn't 100% clear how it was supposed to go - until I removed the base (which had to be done anyway). Duh (on me)

I think that you meant "Hemi" was "just part of the address" (?)



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-03-19 11:21 AM
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58coupe
Posted 2020-03-19 2:08 PM (#595749 - in reply to #595731)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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There is a little more to the conversion, at least on the Chrysler hemi and I assume all hemis.
You have to remove the anti drain back valve and install a plug between the in going and outgoing passages to make the filter
Full flow. This should have been in the instructions from HotHeads.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-03-19 2:21 PM (#595751 - in reply to #595749)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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58coupe - 2020-03-19 11:08 AM
There is a little more to the conversion, at least on the Chrysler hemi and I assume all hemis.
You have to remove the anti drain back valve and install a plug between the in going and outgoing passages to make the filter
Full flow. This should have been in the instructions from HotHeads.


And to remove the anti drain back valve, you need to access the rear main bearing cap, at least on a 315 D500 hemi. This means removing the oil pan. This means lifting up or removing the engine, neither of which are going to happen for me any time soon.

Sometime ago I emailed Bob Walker at Hot Heads:

"I bought this: http://hothemiheads.com/dodge/oiling_system/oil_filter_adapter_30d....
Now people are telling me I've got to take my engine apart to install this adapter.
These are comments from three different people:
1. Don't forget to change the valve inside the engine. HH sells those also. I believe that makes the filter a full flow.
2. Actually it's an anti-drain back check ball for the OEM oil filter, not a by pass
3. To install the check valve adapter they are talking about, you have to remove the oil pan and drop the rear main bearing cap. Then fish out the cage and check ball. I found on my 270, that the block wasn't machined all deep enough for the adapter to go all the way in, so removing the cage and ball is all that needed done.
I'm left being confused and disturbed. I had assumed that I would just remove the OE canister oil filter and bracket and install the Hemi Hot heads 30 deg bracket and Mopar oil filter with a check valve inside it.
What am I missing?"

Bob replied:

"Dave: There were two systems. The earliest had the cage and ball (backflow valve) but were already full flow. At some time Chrysler went to a combination of the backflow valve and a bypass valve. You can run the oil filter mount on either system. You'll just have a backflow in the block and the filter. Have fun, Bob"

So I am going with what it is, full flow/partial flow, whatever. Better than that messy messy cartridge filter.

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Powerflite
Posted 2020-03-19 2:32 PM (#595755 - in reply to #595731)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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Although that's ideal, I don't think it is an absolute necessity. The new filter won't be any different than the original one in terms of how it works, except that some do have an anti-drainback feature too that makes it even less of a problem. Without blocking the valve, I would use the largest filter you can get on there to reduce the backpressure and change it often. If you do that, you should be fine.

By the way Dave, on the '56 without T-bars, you should be able to use a vertical mounted filter. That's what I had on my '56 before I had to change it due to my header design. The vertical filter has a couple of advantages: 1. You can use a larger filter 2. no drain back issues 3. Not as messy to change.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-03-19 3:37 PM (#595758 - in reply to #595755)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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Powerflite - 2020-03-19 11:32 AM
Although that's ideal, I don't think it is an absolute necessity. The new filter won't be any different than the original one in terms of how it works, except that some do have an anti-drainback feature too that makes it even less of a problem. Without blocking the valve, I would use the largest filter you can get on there to reduce the backpressure and change it often. If you do that, you should be fine.
By the way Dave, on the '56 without T-bars, you should be able to use a vertical mounted filter. That's what I had on my '56 before I had to change it due to my header design. The vertical filter has a couple of advantages: 1. You can use a larger filter 2. no drain back issues 3. Not as messy to change.


Thanks for the note of assurance Nathan. I am currently going to run a Wix 51085 (4" tall) because I wanted to make sure that it fit. Now that I have mocked up the filter and mount, I thing that I could go to a longer Wix 51515 which is 5.2" tall

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=360657&jsn=3&_nck=Ekt6Bq...

Now that the new spin on filter base is on the car I can see that I must have taken advice from TorsionBar folks because, as you suggest, I think that a vertical mount would work just fine.



http://www.hothemiheads.com/dodge/oiling_system/oil_filter_adapter_...



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Powerflite
Posted 2020-03-19 10:47 PM (#595769 - in reply to #595731)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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I'm not sure it would be worth it because of the shipping costs, but I would trade you my vertical mount for your 30 degree one if you like. Actually, come to think of it, just use the one you have and if you would like to trade, we could meet up the next time you are down this way....

Edited by Powerflite 2020-03-19 10:50 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-03-19 11:27 PM (#595770 - in reply to #595769)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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Powerflite - 2020-03-19 7:47 PM
I'm not sure it would be worth it because of the shipping costs, but I would trade you my vertical mount for your 30 degree one if you like. Actually, come to think of it, just use the one you have and if you would like to trade, we could meet up the next time you are down this way....


Pretty sure that the adapters would fit in the USPS small flat rate boxes ($7.95) so shipping wouldn't be an issue and the swap might make sense.

Any photos of your old set up on the 56 Plymouth? I had a better look at the situation today while I was "permanently" installing the 30 deg adapter and my guess was I would not have room for a 5" long filter in the vertical position because of the size and location of the D500 exhaust downpipe on that (right) side. BUT I didn't measure anything (I will tomorrow).



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-03-20 2:14 AM
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-03-20 12:13 AM (#595775 - in reply to #595731)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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This is the best picture I have of it. It is using the large Fram 8A style filter.



(56Plym 700R4 Dust Cover.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2020-03-20 2:17 AM (#595779 - in reply to #595775)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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Powerflite - 2020-03-19 9:13 PM
This is the best picture I have of it. It is using the large Fram 8A style filter.


Thanks Nathan. I think that vertical PH8A worked for you because the hugger headers were truly hugging the block and not interfering with the bottom of the filter.



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-03-20 11:18 AM
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-03-20 10:23 AM (#595783 - in reply to #595747)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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56D500boy - 2020-03-19 10:20 AM

Mopar1 - 2020-03-19 7:43 AM
Was going to say it's really straight forward (excuse the pun!). By the way it's "Hot Heads". Hot is just part of the address.


It might be "straight forward" if the car is on a hoist but working from the garage floor with the car jacked up a bit (and on jack stands), it wasn't 100% clear how it was supposed to go - until I removed the base (which had to be done anyway). Duh (on me)

I think that you meant "Hemi" was "just part of the address" (?)

Ooops, yup!
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-03-20 10:55 PM (#595812 - in reply to #595770)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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56D500boy - 2020-03-19 8:27 PM
I had a better look at the situation today while I was "permanently" installing the 30 deg adapter and my guess was I would not have room for a 5" long filter in the vertical position because of the size and location of the D500 exhaust downpipe on that (right) side. BUT I didn't measure anything (I will tomorrow).



Checked today. No way a 5" long/tall filter would work vertically with my exhaust downpipe. A 4"(Wix 51085) might work but I doubt it.

So, for now, I am sticking with the 30 deg. adapter (and the 4"Wix 51085). Next oil change I will go for the longer (5") Wix 51515. There is enough room for that

I used a 29mm socket (as a substitute for the 1 1/8" socket that I don't have) to tighten the OE drain plug (I had removed the plug with a 1 1/8" box end the other day).

With everything buttoned up and checked, I filled the sump with Lucas Hot Rod and Classic 20w50 high zinc oil. 5 US qts brought it up to higher than the add oil line.

Then I pulled the coil lead out of the distributor and cranked the engine for a bit to move some of the new oil around before starting the engine. Put the coil lead back in the distributor and fired it up. Sounded good. No smoking at the tailpipes (hasn't been much if any for some time now)





























Edited by 56D500boy 2020-03-21 2:25 AM
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-03-21 4:10 PM (#595830 - in reply to #595812)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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56D500boy - 2020-03-20 9:55 PM



Next oil change I will go for the longer (5") Wix 51515. There is enough room for that



Then I pulled the coil lead out of the distributor and cranked the engine for a bit to move some of the new oil around before starting the engine. Put the coil lead back in the distributor and fired it up. Sounded good. No smoking at the tailpipes (hasn't been much if any for some time now)
I use the 51515 on my 331. I suspect not all that much oil moves just spinning the engine with the starter. If it was dry from long term storage or rebuild I'd pull the dizzy & int shaft & spin the O/P with a drill, if not just start it up.

Edited by Mopar1 2020-03-21 4:11 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-03-21 4:24 PM (#595831 - in reply to #595830)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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Mopar1 - 2020-03-21 1:10 PM I use the 51515 on my 331. I suspect not all that much oil moves just spinning the engine with the starter. If it was dry from long term storage or rebuild I'd pull the dizzy & int shaft & spin the O/P with a drill, if not just start it up.


I know that it wouldn't do much but I thought that it couldn't hurt either I didn't get any appreciable oil pressure reading on the the oil pressure gauge so that fits with what you are saying. But again, it probably didn't hurt anything to spin it a few times. (Queue the "Unburnt fuel, washed down the cylinder walls" faction.)

Good to know that the 51515 works on your 331.



PS: Odometer Reading at the time of the oil change = 21790 (i.e. 121790)

Edited by 56D500boy 2020-03-21 7:54 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-03-30 3:55 PM (#596245 - in reply to #595831)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter



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While I've been in self-isolation after returning from California, I've been watching a lot of Mopar engine dyno pulls at "Nick's Garage" on Youtube. Today, I watched a 340 Six-Pack on the dyno and was a bit surprised to see a WIX 51515 on the 340 (that Nick just re-built). If it's good enough for Nick, it will be good enough for me (at the time of the next oil change).

Screen shot from that video:

Edited by 56D500boy 2020-03-30 3:58 PM




(Wix51515On340SixPack.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-03-30 4:15 PM (#596247 - in reply to #595731)
Subject: Re: Interesting(?) issue swapping to Hot Hemi Heads Spin-on Oil Filter Adapter


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wix has always been good stuff.
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