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1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies
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samstrader
Posted 2020-04-30 7:14 PM (#597562)
Subject: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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I had my 259 V8 rebuilt and the valves were tapping so I pulled the valve covers and found that the passenger side is oiling somewhat I think because there was oil on top of the head but the driver side is not getting any oil at all. There was zero oil under the valve cover. Some of my rockers are ruined. My engine is an early 1955 hemi block with poly heads. I have the Hot Heads Oil filter adapter installed and get very good oil pressure.

I pulled the distributor and spun the oil pump to see if any oil got up to the rocker assemblies. While running the pump with the drill, and 50 psi oil pressure, I did not get any oil up to the top of the heads on either side of the engine. I pulled the bolt where the oil comes up on both sides and ran the drill and still no oil. The oil passages on the stud were plugged some but with the stud removed and the hole clean down to the cam bearing, could still not get oil out.

The rocker assemblies were not cleaned and were plugged up badly so I know I need to clean them up to get oil and I know how to do this. But my worry is I can't seem to get oil to come up to the rocker assembly in the first place.

Can anyone give me some guidance on the next things I should try?

Thanks,

Sam
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-04-30 7:43 PM (#597564 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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The oil only goes up from the cam at certain times during the rotation. So you have to rotate the motor to the right spot to get oil to flow there.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-04-30 11:59 PM (#597572 - in reply to #597564)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Thank you very much Powerflight.

I read another thread that talks about this also. I'll try this tomorrow and let you know what happens. I did measure the distance from the head to the bottom of the hole on the side that gets oil and the side that does not have oil and the measurement is exactly the same which I think is good news. Every single hole in my rocker arm shaft was plugged off so I think, I hope, that this was the problem and not a bad install on the cam bearing.

Does anyone know where I can buy two or three exhaust rocker arms and two or three push rods? I have some messed up because of the no oil flow deal. The shaft and the bores of the rocker arms and scared a very little but OK. Just the tips where the rocker arm touches the valve and the side where the push rod touches is messed up. And the tip of some of the push rods is worn abnormally.

Thanks for all of the help...

I should have done a better check on the oil flow while the engine was on the engine stand. There is a lot to learn about this stuff.

Sam
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51coronet
Posted 2020-05-01 1:34 AM (#597574 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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I have been thinking of running a T fitting at the oil sender port and plumbing a very small line to the valve covers and fab up a drip system inside above the rockers. Such a small amount of oil gets up there via the cam bearings.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-01 1:17 PM (#597594 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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51 Coronet. You know your idea is really a good one. You could also drill and tap a small hole into the bar and tie the line into the bar and just pump more oil into the bar and oil the rockers from the inside out. That would be an easier plumbing job. There is so little oil up there that my side that is all stopped up just cooked on old engine oil.

Neat idea actually.

Thanks,
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normsclassicradio
Posted 2020-05-01 1:20 PM (#597595 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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Ford 272-292-312 Y blocks had this issue. Used to see an "oiler kit" installed on these engines. The late camshaft for this engine family was grooved to prevent this. And a groove in the cam bearing itself. I built a HP 292 for my 59 Edsel with this cam and bearing setup. It oiled so well you couldn't run the engine with the valve covers off. Has this been tried on the mopar engines?

Edited by normsclassicradio 2020-05-01 1:23 PM
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-01 1:57 PM (#597598 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Hello normsclassicradio…. You have a good point. The reason I didn't check the rocker arm when I first started up the engine was that I remembered the old Chevrolet engines. When you pulled the valve cover, you got oil everywhere with the engine running. I didn't know so little oil went up to the top of the valves on these Plymouth engines. I really messed up on this on. I'm really mad at myself...

Thanks.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-01 3:56 PM (#597602 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Update --- I used a drill to run the oil pump and turned the engine, as suggested by you guys. I got oil flow from the passenger side bank at TDC. This oil flow was like an oil well blowing in; impressive. Got oil everywhere. I turned the crank one full revolution to TDC again. This would be 180 degrees on the cam shaft and ran the drill oil pump and no oil at all coming up to the top of the drivers side head. I moved the crank at 5 degree increments, or less, and ran the drill for one full revolution on the crank and never got any oil on the driver side rocker arm assembly. (I have the rocker arm assembly removed and am observing the hold where the oil come up from the second hole from the front). Never got any oil at all. So I'm thinking the cam bearing was installed wrong.

Before I pull the engine and start over, just wondering if anyone has any ideas for me.

I'm going to fix this myself this time and make sure things get installed correctly. I'm really disappointed in the machine shop that rebuilt this for me..

Thanks for all of your help.

Sam
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normsclassicradio
Posted 2020-05-01 4:17 PM (#597605 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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OK, here's what I would do. Pull the heads, incl rockers and push rods. Pull the lifters and disassemble front cover to remove the cam shaft. Check the oil supply hole alignment. Rather than replace that cam bearing, almost impossible to do without removing the engine, drill down thru the bearing shell. Make sure there are no burs around the hole. Then get a small ball burr and extension. ground out a shallow groove all around the circumference of the cam bearing, being careful to line up with the holes. Now you will have oil pressure available to the heads all the time instead of 1 every other revolution. My 2 cents.
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51coronet
Posted 2020-05-01 5:36 PM (#597610 - in reply to #597594)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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samstrader - 2020-05-01 1:17 PM

51 Coronet. You know your idea is really a good one. You could also drill and tap a small hole into the bar and tie the line into the bar and just pump more oil into the bar and oil the rockers from the inside out. That would be an easier plumbing job. There is so little oil up there that my side that is all stopped up just cooked on old engine oil.

Neat idea actually.

Thanks,


oh i like that idea better! I have a 392 (57 imperial) that I did a lot of work to. I installed Stanke roller rockers so would like the piece of mind they are getting oil. I don't mine a little extra oil consumption through the valve stems if its a side effect. Preserving the engine, valve train and investment is worth it. The valve train is super noisy, I am sure its due to a lack of oil up top. I verified the shop installed the cam bearings correctly before doing the rest of the assembly.

I have pulled the covers off another 392 I sold and it was like you described. Burnt caked on oil on the entire valve train. So proper oil flow up top seems to be lacking.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-01 7:16 PM (#597618 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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Most of the problem with the old motors is using non-detergent oil along with a poor performing oil filter. This causes a lot of metal dust to collect inside the rocker arm tubes that slowly plugs them up. If you run oil with detergents and a good oil filter, most of this issue should go away once you get it cleaned out.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-02 12:45 AM (#597627 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Thanks normsclassicradio… This is a pretty cool idea.. Let me play this back just to make sure I understand what you are saying. I have to pull the cam out. I can pull the intake manifold and then pull the pan above the cam (which is located under the intake manifold) and get the lifters out without pulling the head. I have a real long drill bit so I can drill a hole through the cam bearing from the hole in the head where the stud comes up. On the driver side, this is the stud that is close to the front of the car, or it is the second hold down position from the front on the rocker arm assembly. After I drill the hole into the cam bearing so I have good passage from the inside of the cam bearing up to the rocker arm, I use a Dremel or something like this to cut a very small grove in the middle of the cam bearing all the way around so that oil can get from the oil supply to the hole going up to the rocker assembly. After typing this, I'm thinking I only need a grove from the oil supply hole to the new hole that I drill. That will give me a constant supply of oil to the rocker arms I think because oil will come into the bearing, go along the grove to the new hole, and go up to the rocker arms.

Is this what you are saying. I'm just trying to make sure I understand because I think I'm going to use this method. What is there to lose. If it doesn't work, I'll just have to pull the cam again and replace all of the cam bearings.

Anyway, a pretty cool idea.

Thanks,

Sam
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Apollo 61
Posted 2020-05-02 1:46 AM (#597635 - in reply to #597627)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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I have a 55 Plymouth that I'm parting that has a poly v8. The motor is froze . If there's any parts you use from motor ? LMK http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=69625&...
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-05-02 10:33 AM (#597641 - in reply to #597635)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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The best way of checking the oil flow is to have 1 guy run the drill motor & a 2nd guy slowly turn the crank with a wrench until you find the sweet spot, unless only one that you found shows up. Some do the grooving thing, but is unnessesary, these engines go from the factory that way.
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normsclassicradio
Posted 2020-05-02 11:20 AM (#597645 - in reply to #597627)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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The point is to find the supply port to the bearing, usually at the bottom. Then connect that hole with the holes up to the heads with a groove. I just do one all the way around the inside circumference.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-02 2:10 PM (#597647 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Thanks again normsclassicradio…. I've thought about you idea a lot more and it is what I'm going to do. Otherwise, I have to pull the engine. Your idea is a pretty good fix I think and will get me back in business. I really appreciate your help.

I'm going to grove the other bearing also so I get more oil to the passenger side while the cam is out. This will help the whole engine I believe.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-02 2:14 PM (#597648 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Hello Apollo 61. Thank you for your note. I'll PM you about some parts. I really appreciate your note.

Sam
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-02 5:47 PM (#597655 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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Before you tear it apart, make sure you are in the right position where you should get oil. On the camshaft in my 392 hemi, there are 2 oil holes that are connected to each other about 120 degrees apart from each other. When the front set of oil holes are lined up properly, it will send oil to the driver's side head. The rear holes in the cam are drilled in the exact same positions. So if you now rotate the cam 120 degrees clockwise from the point you had oil flow in the driver's side, you will get oil flow in the passenger side. Note that it isn't at 180 degrees apart from each other. So since you know where the oil flows for the passenger side, just rotate 120 degrees counter-clockwise from that point, and you should get it on the driver's side too.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-02 8:14 PM (#597663 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Thanks Powerflite. I'll try this just like you said. I still have everything set up to make this test.

I've driven the car about miles and in miles, not one drop of oil got up to the rocker are assembly. I was thinking it could be because the rocker arm assembly was plugged up. But now have been thinking it may be the cam bearing installed wrong. I did measure the distance from the head to the cam bearing and got exactly the same measurement on both sides. 3 31/32 inches exactly. If this measurement is the same, it seem like it means the oil holes going to the heads are both lined up. I am now worried that maybe the oil hole from that cam bearing is not lined up to the main bearing and may not be getting any oil at all. I have a borescope but it won't fit down into the oil hole. It's too big.

If I get oil at 120 degrees, that would solve the issue of having the same distance to both bearings. I'll try again and hope this works...

Thanks for your note...
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-02 8:15 PM (#597664 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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500 miles and in 500 miles
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-02 8:42 PM (#597665 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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I believe the hole in the cam bearing is smaller than the hole in the block so your measurement may just be hitting on top of the bearing. try sharpening the rod that you are using to be sure it will reach through the smaller hole in the bearing.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-02 9:04 PM (#597668 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Thanks Powerflite. I'll do this double check. I'll push around and see if I can feel a drop off too. I hope there is a difference. It would make me feel better.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-08 4:46 AM (#597936 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Hello Powerflite…. I re-measured both holes going to the cam bearings. Both holes dropped exactly 4 inches hit the cam bearing. This was at a point on the bottom part of the hole when I pushed a small rod down the hole. When I pushed the rod down to the bottom along the top side of the hole both holes measured 4 1/8 inches exactly. I could feel the drop off in both holes and the measurements are exactly the same. That seems to indicate that the hole in the bearing on the side I don't get oil is lined up correctly. I turned the engine while running the drill very slowly and back and forth in areas that might be the sweet spot and never got any oil at all to the driver side. The passenger side flowed oil real good at the same spot every time I passed it. If the cam bearing is lined up right, which the measurements seem to indicate, I am wondering what is wrong. I wonder if the cam itself is drilled out right. I'm going to pull the cam tomorrow and look and see what is going on. I'm just not understanding what is happening right now.

Norm, regarding cutting groves in the bearings to get more oil up to the rocker arms, what do you think about cutting a small grove in the cam itself all the way around, or just part of the way around. It will be easier to cut a grove in the cam while it is out of the engine, a very small grove. Do you think this would give the same benefit as cutting a grove in the bearing. I don't want too much oil so I'm think of a pretty small grove.

Hopefully I will know what is wrong with the oil supply for the driver side tomorrow and I'll submit an update. Thanks for everyone's help and support. I would not have known how to proceed without your help. There are some really great mechanics on this site...

sam
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normsclassicradio
Posted 2020-05-08 2:31 PM (#597956 - in reply to #597936)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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In fact, the late Ford Y-block engines have a grove around the journal. However, with the cam thrust tolerances, it may need to be a little wide. I would also pay attention to the feed hole in the cam bearings, I believe its the bottom one, feeding from the oil journal that feeds the crank bearings.



(y block cam.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments y block cam.jpg (16KB - 11 downloads)
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-08 2:38 PM (#597957 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Thanks Norm, Thanks for this cam thing. I think I'll do it this way with a Dremel cutting wheel. Very small grove.

I will check the hole going from the cam bearing to the main bearing when I get things opened up. I'm planning to run the oil pump and just make sure oil comes out of all of the places on the cam bearings. When it is apart, I'm going to use flashlights or wires or something and check out every hole in there. I can't imagine right now what is wrong but I hope it is very obvious when I get the cam out.

Thanks again...

SAm
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-08 3:11 PM (#597960 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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The line from the main journal to the cam bearing could be plugged. It is difficult to reach this line with the crank in place. I hope that isn't the problem.
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normsclassicradio
Posted 2020-05-08 4:04 PM (#597962 - in reply to #597960)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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I went looking for the poly engine oiling diagram and found it. http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12862
Funny where Google will lead you.



(Poly Oil System.jpg)



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Attachments Poly Oil System.jpg (110KB - 10 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-05-08 5:58 PM (#597965 - in reply to #597962)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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Good job Norm. Made me check the 55-56 FSM pdf from MyMopar. Similar but better quality diagrams:





(55-56PlymouthV8EngineOilingSystem_1.jpg)



(55-56PlymouthV8EngineOilingSystem_2.jpg)



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Attachments 55-56PlymouthV8EngineOilingSystem_1.jpg (165KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments 55-56PlymouthV8EngineOilingSystem_2.jpg (157KB - 10 downloads)
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-08 11:38 PM (#597975 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Update. I pulled the cam today and the cam bearing, second from front of engine is installed wrong. The oil port to the rocker assembly on the drivers side is blocked. Actually, both cam bearings that oil the rockers are installed wrong but it didn't cause a problem on the cam bearing oiling the passenger side rockers.

The two cam bearings that supply oil to the rocker assemblies have three holes and they look to be exactly 90 degrees apart from each other. The right way to put the bearings in is to put the center hole over the port from the main bearing. Looking from the front of the engine, the hole 90 degrees to the right of the center hole would oil the driver side rockers and the hole 90 degrees to the left of the center hole would oil the passenger side rockers. The driver side is oiled from the second from the front cam bearing and the passenger side is oiled from the second from the back cam bearing. My bearings were installed with the center hole on both bearings facing the passenger side unfortunately. Can't imagine why this would have been done.

On my car TDC on the crank will send oil to one side and if you make one full revolution on the crank to TDC again, you will send oil to the other side. This is because of the 90 degrees between the holes. The hole in the block must be drilled exactly 90 degrees from vertical. I'm guessing this.

Norm said you have to pull the head to drill from the outside and drill a hole in the bearing and he is correct. With the head on, you do not have a straight shot to the bearing. I was hoping to drill the bearing with the head on but that won't work. It is this turn in the port that I have been measuring. The 4" is really just the thickness of the head. It's obvious now.

One thing I am considering is getting a Dremel tool, like a ball like Norm mentioned, and grind from the inside of the bearing to the hole in the block. I think I can tell exactly where the hole in the block is. I have a Dremel flex line that will comfortably reach the place where I need to grind on the second bearing. But I am a little undecided because this is not nearly as controlled as drilling from the outside with the head pulled like Norm originally suggested.

I'll get the hole in the cam bearing and put the cam back in and run the oil pump and make sure I get oil everywhere, which I'm pretty sure I will. Then put it all back together.

One of this issues on the Dodge engine rebuilds is that most mechanics (at least my mechanic) works on Chevy engines. They are experts on Chevys. But these engines are just enough different that the small things can wind up causing a lot of trouble.

I very much appreciate all of the help you guys have given me. I would not have been able to figure this out and would have just pulled the engine and started over.


Edited by samstrader 2020-05-08 11:43 PM
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-08 11:50 PM (#597976 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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These pictures reminded me of another question to ask. My floating suction for the oil pump has a hole in the top, actually a little off center from the top. It looks like a hole put in at the factory, not a hole a mechanic drilled later on. So it means my floating suction won't float. Do your oil pump floating suction systems have holes in the float?
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-09 12:15 AM (#597977 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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I don't recommend trying to drill a hole in your bearing with a dremel. I would get a cam bearing installation tool and pull the bearing out. Then reinstall it in the proper orientation. You can do it through the radiator opening with a hammer. I think that would be the easiest and best way to get it done.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-09 12:17 AM (#597978 - in reply to #597977)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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Oh, and by the way, the cam installation tool is the same as the small block LA sizes. I just bought one for myself to install the cam bearings on my 392 hemi.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-09 1:00 AM (#597979 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Thanks Powerflite. Where do you get one of these cam bearing tools. I'm not familiar with them and don't know that they are called. I do have a lot of room in front of the engine but Norm said it is pretty hard to install cam bearings with the engine in the car. But I don't understand how you can pull out the bearing from the front and not damage the bearing. I wonder if I should just buy a new set of cam bearings. I don't think they are that expensive. Anyway, can you tell me more about the cam bearing tool.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-09 2:39 AM (#597981 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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You can get a cheap universal one off ebay, but you have to be careful with it as you can break the ends if you don't hit evenly. I prefer more robust versions that are engine specific. I bought one of them from the carshop here: https://carshopinc.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=&q=+CSP10630 You can also get a set that includes one extra die so you can change the bearings on big block motors too. That set is CSP10600. That's what I purchased.

However, thinking about it, I don't know how you would get the tool into place with the crankshaft still installed. It has to be assembled from below. Unfortunately, the cam bearings are the first thing that must be installed in the building process. So changing the bearings isn't an option unless you completely disassemble the motor. I agree that maybe drilling from above with the head removed may be your best bet, as long as there is an oil hole to the main bearing lined up properly.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-09 1:52 PM (#597997 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Thanks Powerflite. I looked at YouTube videos last night and learned a lot about cam bearings. All of the videos showed the crankshaft out. The videos show very clearly how to use the tools and how to install and remove the bearings. I can't figure out how to put the cam in and out without bumping the bearings with the cam lobes and damaging them a little. The videos showed the same as the way I pulled the cam so I guess the small damage is not a problem My bearings look to be in real good condition fortunately. I ran the oil pump and good oil flow going to all of the bearings. The holes to the main bearings are lined up good.

Thanks for your help....
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-09 6:34 PM (#598010 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Update No. 2. --- I pulled the head on the drivers side and used a 3/16 drill to drill a hole into the cam bearing from the block side. Worked very well and really easy. Just need to make sure you don't go too deep and hit the opposite side of the bearing. 3/16 inch is the same size as the holes in the cam but it is bigger that the holes in the bearings. I couldn't get a good measurement on the holes in the cam bearings but am thinking they must be 1/8 inch. The drill bit needs to be about 8 inches long by the way.

The hole I drilled did not come out exactly in the center of the bearing. It was offset toward the back of the engine. I think this is because I didn't center the hole in the block exactly with my drill bit. I was worried the oil may not get into the hole I drilled good enough so I used a chain saw sharpening file and, working from the block side, filed the hole toward the center of the bearing. I now have an oblong hole that will meet the hole in the cam for certain.

The hole I drilled is bigger than the holes in the bearing so I think I will get more oil to the rockers. I did not cut a grove in the bearing because I didn't want to go too far away from design on the oiling system. I already now have a bigger hole in the bearing than design.

I caught all the drilling metal that came out to the center of the bearing with a cloth covered with Crisco. The metal sort of sticks to the Crisco. I cleaned the hole in the block with a .22 caliber cleaning rod and brush and swab. That worked really good. Last, I blew air from the block to the cam bearing and had a rag in place to catch anything that came out. Nothing came out after cleaning with the gun cleaning rods... Before I put on the rocker assembly, I'll run the oil pump and blow out any remaining trash with the motor oil.

I'll put things back together, after I get new gaskets, and run the oil pump with the drill and make certain I get oil up to the rockers and every where else it is supposed to come out.

The head gasket that was under the head I pulled looks to be in great condition. Does anyone have opinions on reusing head gaskets that look good?

Thanks again for everyone's help. This method normsclassicradio mentioned initially worked very well and it is really the only way to do this job. But it would be better to put the cam bearings in correctly in the first place and so easy to do when you are just starting to put an engine back together. Just saying...

Edited by samstrader 2020-05-09 6:50 PM
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-15 3:46 AM (#598304 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Update 3 --- Started my engine this evening and the oil getting to the rocker assembly makes it run a lot quieter. I have some push rods coming and I think they will make it even quieter but it is pretty good as it is. Much better with oil. I will pull the valve cover tomorrow and double check to make sure it is oiling good...
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-15 11:38 AM (#598316 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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Great news! An update from me as well. The small block cam bearing tool uses the same size bearings as the hemi except for the last one at the rear of the block. That one is smaller on the hemi.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-15 6:19 PM (#598335 - in reply to #598316)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Interesting on the cam bearings Powerflite. I saw in my service manual that the cam bearings seldom need changed so maybe they are so reliable that that's why small block and big block are the same.

I checked the rockers on the driver's side of my car and they are oiling. Not a lot of oil up there but the right amount I think. Oil was on top of all of the valve spring top clips, which is good. I'll drive for a while and recheck again but looking good so far.

Here's a couple of pictures of my engine. I had it rebuilt in 2011 and then pretty much rebuilt it again myself in 2020. I had the crank main bearings turned to 0.020 and replaced them. Then I took the entire top of the engine apart to fix the cam bearing issue so I feel like I rebuilt it. this was my first engine rebuild. Thanks again for everyone's help. Especially normsclassicradio for the idea on how to fix the cam bearing problem. I would have never thought of that but it worked great.



Edited by samstrader 2020-05-15 6:22 PM




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westaus29
Posted 2020-05-16 9:14 PM (#598373 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Location: Mandurah, Western Australia
Thanks for this well documented post, and all the great suggestions. Will file it for when my 259 needs rebuild. Right now it has a little blow-by and a rattle none of us can diagnose, otherwise runs great so will keep it going. Have replaced timing chain, fuel pump and cleaned sludge out of sump and feel rattle must come from back somewhere. Not a lifter!
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-05-18 12:38 PM (#598434 - in reply to #598335)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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Sorry. Late to the party but I just found this article in the October 2000 issue of Mopar Action and thought that I better scan it and share for future reference. The comments near the end about the "A" engines are the ones that specifically apply to the 259, etc.





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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-18 12:55 PM (#598436 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Hi westaus29. I hope this helps you. Regarding your rattle, is it coming from the top back, top front, bottom back or bottom front of the engine. I'm trying to think about what it could be. Have you used a rod or stethoscope to listen around?
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-18 1:03 PM (#598437 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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This is a great article 56D500boy.... And it is exactly correct. I've just been through this and everything said is exactly correct. I like the part of the picture in the article that shows how the oil gets from the rocker assembly shaft to the outside of the rockers. That's not so easy to understand when just looking at the rockers. And, like I said before, it is important not to install a lock washer on the middle bolt that holds down the rocker assembly to the head. The lock washer will let too much oil leak out of the rocker shaft and starve the rockers I think.
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westaus29
Posted 2020-05-19 6:04 AM (#598467 - in reply to #598436)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Location: Mandurah, Western Australia
I am not too worried about the rattle thanks samstrader. I've done all I can to fix the obvious things so its not the front pulley, loose gearbox mounts (yes they were loose but tightening them didnt help), the timing chain, the fuel pump, or a big end (rod bearing). No rattle when cold, hollow tapping noise once per rev, only when good and hot at idle, seems to come from rear. No change when take any plug lead off. I am leaning towards piston slap or else something loose at torque converter end. I may get a chance to check the last as the powerflite leaks heaps when standing and may have to do something about it. Thinking about taking the 55 out, giving it a wash and taking the wife for a coffee and me for an icecream. Lockdown easing here but we are both over 70 so not too adventurous.
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-19 2:45 PM (#598476 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Hello Westaus29. The noise you describe is exactly the same as a noise I have and my engine has just been rebuilt. I'm not sure it is anything to worry about but makes me wonder what it is. Engine runs good and strong and smooth. Hope you have a fun outing. Get adventurous....

I have not tried pulling plug wires as you described. I'll do that today.
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wizard
Posted 2020-05-19 3:29 PM (#598485 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies



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Such noises might come from the fuel pump if the return spring is weak. That means that the fuel pump arm will not follow the excenter evenly, instead it will "hang in the air" for to be slapped by the excentric.
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westaus29
Posted 2020-05-20 10:51 AM (#598544 - in reply to #598485)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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Location: Mandurah, Western Australia
Thanks Wizard, tried that .. brand new Airtex 4280 mech pump made no difference, just another hole in my pocket. Just joking, was very reasonable at $A100 delivered (in 2015 before the Aussie dollar went kaput and USPS international package prices went sky high)
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samstrader
Posted 2020-05-21 12:24 PM (#598584 - in reply to #597562)
Subject: Re: 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 - No Oil to Rocker Assemblies


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I have an Airtex 4280 fuel pump and it does make some noise. I'm going to convert to an electric fuel pump later on this year. I've heard they are a lot more reliable and the mechanical fuel pumps are no longer available. Burnbaum will rebuild a mechanical fuel pump for about $150 US. A Carter electric 6 volt fuel pump from Rock Auto is about $44.

The mechanical fuel pumps are easy to rebuild but you can't get rebuild kits for them, at least I have not found one.
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