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62 fury 727 issues
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-10 7:59 PM (#599520)
Subject: 62 fury 727 issues


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I rebuild the 727 transmission in the 62 last week. It was working really good, good hard, crisp shifts, correct shift point at all throttle ranges, kickdown correctly adjusted, etc. I was able to get an extra set of frictions in the front clutch so it really woke up after the rebuild. Yesterday, when it was REALLY hot, it started not shifting to third until i lifted the throttle. I highly doubt I'll be able to adjust the problem out but my next step is to check the band adjustments. I set them by the book when I rebuilt it but you never know. A friend that's really good with transmissions suggested it could be in the valve body. The car was driving and shifting fine, I only rebuilt it because it had a horrendous fluid lead out of the front main seal. As I suspected it was more than just a seal, the converter bushing bad and there was significant wear in the reaction shaft support where the input shaft's sealing rings made contact. I also just a better torque converter because I had it.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be awesome. I would really like to NOT have to pull the darn thing out again!

Thanks,

Wayne
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57chizler
Posted 2020-06-11 1:08 PM (#599549 - in reply to #599520)
Subject: RE: 62 fury 727 issues



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Location: NorCal
Lift-foot shifts into 3rd are usually caused by leakage at the front clutch (seals/rings) or worn governor sealing rings. Since it occurs when the fluid is hot and thin, leakage is the likely cause. Bands aren't the problem.

You can hook a test gauge to the governor pressure test port to verify the governor pressure is within the FSM parameters. Removing the valve body and air testing will check for leakage at the front clutch.

You can try to shorten the throttle pressure linkage to see if it will upshift more reliably.
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-11 6:37 PM (#599552 - in reply to #599520)
Subject: Re: 62 fury 727 issues


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Wow, thank you so much! I would have had to drain the fluid into something I could use to pour it back in, tried to adjust the band and button it back up only to find I gained nothing.

Again, THANK YOU,

Wayne
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-12 10:51 PM (#599595 - in reply to #599520)
Subject: Re: 62 fury 727 issues


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It's a fairly cool day here so we took the convertible out for a spin/test drive. I did adjust the kickdown in two turns. It did correct the short shift thing going on but it wasn't short by all that much. I think it would have been right on with one turn. I've decided just to pull the transmission back out and search the obvious areas for the problem. I'll air test it. I have a diagram describing what hole goes where and what does what...somewhere on this computer...that doesn't mean I'll be able to find it though. LOL I may need to request some advice from you when it goes down. At the moment my 57 Suburban is on the hoist. I was doing brake work but then I broke down and ordered the desperately needed transmission rebuild kit. I haven't definitely decided if I'm going to get it off the hoist after the brakes are done or if I'm going leave it up there and pull the transmission and get it all done while it's up in the air.

Again, thanks a lot for your suggestions. You seem to be very well educated in 727's I learned how to build them for drag racing but that mostly involved buying the best stuff and throwing it in. I didn't really know how to freshen up one and know what to look for. I was mostly just replacing everything and hoping I was covering all my bases.

I'll be 54 on Monday and I'm still learning something new nearly every day.

Wayne

Edited by jaded13640 2020-06-12 10:56 PM
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-13 3:34 AM (#599608 - in reply to #599520)
Subject: Re: 62 fury 727 issues


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57chisler, I don't know your name, are you also good with the cast iron 727 like in my 57 Dodge Suburban? It's been in desperate need of attention for a couple of years now. Everything worked normally except it would take several seconds to shift in forward. That was 5 years ago. 4 years ago it was up to 10 or so seconds. I didn't want to hurt it anymore since then but was either broke due to recovering from back surgery or unable to do the work due to back surgery. I had two big surgeries over that period of time so I really was unable to fix it. Last season I only went to one cruise because of that. This year I'm physically in better shape than I've been in 15 years and there's still more to be gained. I bought the kit and have the car on the house anyway so I might be starting on it as soon as tomorrow. I'll start a thread in the transmission section asking for advice, pointers and useful knowledge about the cast iron baby. I hope to see you there.

Thanks

Wayne
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57chizler
Posted 2020-06-13 4:48 PM (#599628 - in reply to #599608)
Subject: Re: 62 fury 727 issues



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Slow to engage in forward gears is a problem with the front clutch, once again probably due to sealing rings or hardened/shrunk seals. An additive like Trans-X or Lucas will often rejuvenate the seals. If that doesn't help you're only out a few bucks.

BTW, the cast iron trans in a '57 is an A-466, not a 727.

Edited by 57chizler 2020-06-13 4:50 PM
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-13 11:34 PM (#599641 - in reply to #599520)
Subject: Re: 62 fury 727 issues


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Oh, yea, you're right. I mispoke. But thanks, I didn't know the number.
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Mr. Bob
Posted 2020-06-19 10:49 PM (#599878 - in reply to #599520)
Subject: Re: 62 fury 727 issues


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Location: Ferndale, WA 98248
Also had the very slow to engage when shifting to Drive (or any forward gear) in my 57 Dodge. Drained the trans, filled up with fresh fluid and a bottle of Trans X. That was a year ago. Shifts solidly into Drive now every time.

I tried Lucas first, and it made the problem worse.
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-20 6:02 PM (#599916 - in reply to #599520)
Subject: RE: 62 fury 727 issues


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So, question to the Torqueflite experts, in the front clutch there maybe 8 or 9 or 10. For decent performance but street use only, what's better, more springs or less springs?

Thanks,

Wayne

PS, this is pretty "time sensitive", I have the trans apart again because some sealing issues are going on. Upon air testing the the clutch packs individually, with the valve body off, it had so much air leakage at 40 psi that I wasn't sure it was functioning at all! The frictions look fine. I'm going to either replace the seals or replace piston or drum or all of the above. The direct clutch has a lot of leakage too....but one thing at a time.

Well, I guess I'm not including a pic, now, even on the lowest resolution setting, it says my file is too big.



Edited by jaded13640 2020-06-20 6:08 PM
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57chizler
Posted 2020-06-21 3:50 PM (#599966 - in reply to #599916)
Subject: RE: 62 fury 727 issues



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In a 727, the front clutch and the "direct clutch" are the same thing. The factory refers to them as the front clutch and rear clutch....best to use factory terminology to avoid confusion.

The front clutch piston has either 10 or 15 spring posts, this obviously limits the number of springs possible. For street, I use 9 or 10 springs but some advocate using the max number possible to avoid severe overlap on the 2-3 upshift. Be aware that there are two different springs available, the original '62 springs will have a free length of 1 5/8" while the later springs are 1 3/8". The shorter spring actually has more installed pressure.

Since the trans is already apart it would be unwise not to replace all of the rubber seals and sealing rings.
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-21 6:22 PM (#599977 - in reply to #599966)
Subject: RE: 62 fury 727 issues


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Thanks for the info on terminology. The trans builders I've talked to will often refer to the front clutch as the "front clutch" but the rear they will sometimes call it the "forward clutch". I guess that's because the rear clutch is in use for all forward movement. Or something like that.

Yes, for sure I'm with you on replacing all rubber but since the metal sealing rings were just put in it a week ago I was considering leaving them in, unless of course I find a broken one, but I haven't. Do you still feel like it was be unwise to leave them in? If so, I'll change em, it's not a big deal...it just seemed like a waste.

What do you thing?

As for the number of springs, I used the long ones and ran 10. I didn't know that the shorter ones were stronger under compression.

Thanks,

Wayne
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57chizler
Posted 2020-06-22 2:08 PM (#600010 - in reply to #599977)
Subject: RE: 62 fury 727 issues



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The terms "forward" and "direct" are Ford/GM.
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-22 3:22 PM (#600016 - in reply to #600010)
Subject: RE: 62 fury 727 issues


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The book says to approximately set the line pressure at 1 5/16 to start. To set the throttle pressure it calls for the "gauge pin" of a special tool kit C-3763. Of course I don't have it. Do you know the diameter of that gauge pin? I've got a bunch of pierce punches and might get lucky and have the size I need or I can use the lathe to make one. I just need the diameter.

Thanks,

Wayne
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jaded13640
Posted 2020-06-22 7:10 PM (#600025 - in reply to #599520)
Subject: Re: 62 fury 727 issues


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Does anybody know what diameter that pin is?

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normsclassicradio
Posted 2020-06-23 2:19 PM (#600052 - in reply to #599520)
Subject: RE: 62 fury 727 issues



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Location: Kalispell, MT USA
I used the transgo shift kit when I did mine, and followed the recommendations in the kit. Here is a link to the album for the rebuild. 1964 Torqueflite with park.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/igRdXtnsE4WuMGMr9

Edited by normsclassicradio 2020-06-23 2:21 PM




(20190509_105452.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 20190509_105452.jpg (78KB - 48 downloads)
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57chizler
Posted 2020-06-23 2:48 PM (#600055 - in reply to #600016)
Subject: RE: 62 fury 727 issues



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Location: NorCal
jaded13640 - 2020-06-22 12:22 PM

To set the throttle pressure it calls for the "gauge pin" of a special tool kit C-3763


The tool is 5/8" but it's not critical. Just adjust to an air gap of around .200" between the cam and the end of the kickdown valve.
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