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1956 Windsor Brake/Tandom Master question
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Twotallkris34
Posted 2020-06-22 8:12 AM (#599998)
Subject: 1956 Windsor Brake/Tandom Master question


Member

Posts: 16

Hello Everyone, I have a 56 Windsor that I am upgrading the brake system on. I installed the disk break kit from AAJ brakes on the front and have the stock drums on the back. When I got the car it had the Factory Master cylinder and (what i was told was a ) Bendix Hydrovac remote booster. I would like to retain power breaks and switch the master over to a tandem Reservoir. Getting the Bendix Hydrovac rebuilt is expensive from the quotes I have gotten, Master power brakes makes a remote booster I think would work for me but can anyone give me a recommendation for a Master Cylinder ?

And then as far as Plumbing it, I would install the master on the firewall. Come out of 1 port on the master run it into a Adjustable proportioning valve, then run that to the rear axle. Then come out the other port on the master run that into the Remote booster, then come out of the front booster and run that to the front distribution block for the front calipers.

Any Advice would be appricated.

Thanks

Edited by Twotallkris34 2020-06-22 8:28 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-06-22 11:17 AM (#600001 - in reply to #599998)
Subject: RE: 1956 Windsor Brake/Tandom Master question



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
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Sorry but I find it hard to believe that you have a Bendix HydroVac remote (under the chassis on the driver's side) booster brake system. Chrysler did use them but I thought by 1956 they had stopped. Here are the booster systems that were used in 1955-58. A photo of yours would confirm/deny what you have.

The second from the left is more 1955. The far right is what I expect from a 1956 Chrysler with factory power brakes. (You might have a Hydrovac system that was installed later, from an older Chrysler) (??)



1954 Chrysler Power brake booster (from the 1954 Windsor brochure):



Here is a "normal" 1956 Windsor with Power Brakes:



REFERENCES:

1. http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=69598&...

2. http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/chrysler/54cw/54cw.html

3. https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chrysler/windsor/1665326...





Edited by 56D500boy 2020-06-22 11:30 AM
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Twotallkris34
Posted 2020-06-22 11:46 AM (#600005 - in reply to #600001)
Subject: RE: 1956 Windsor Brake/Tandom Master question


Member

Posts: 16

Here is a couple of photos, I couldn't find a whole lot of info on these, I talked to a few people that were unsure of what it was, I bought another 1956 Windsor for parts that has the same setup in it it just just mounted a little differently.





(Chrysler.jpg)



(20200118_114620.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Chrysler.jpg (101KB - 6 downloads)
Attachments 20200118_114620.jpg (109KB - 6 downloads)
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57chizler
Posted 2020-06-23 2:28 PM (#600054 - in reply to #600005)
Subject: RE: 1956 Windsor Brake/Tandom Master question



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Yep, that's a Hydro-Vac. Not gonna work with a tandem MC.
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Twotallkris34
Posted 2020-06-23 4:33 PM (#600058 - in reply to #600054)
Subject: RE: 1956 Windsor Brake/Tandom Master question


Member

Posts: 16

57chizler Why won't it work, If i run the brake line just from the front port on the master to the Hydro-Vac then down to the stock distro block, and put a plug where the rear brake lines used to tie in, Then from the rear port on the master run the line out of there to a adjustable portioning valve back to the rear distro block. ? Just trying to figure this out before i order the parts and have it rebuilt. Thanks for any input.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-06-23 4:58 PM (#600060 - in reply to #600058)
Subject: RE: 1956 Windsor Brake/Tandom Master question



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Found this (below): It might or might not help you/us figure it out:



"There are a ton of different models and sizes of Hydrovacs so they are not all the same.

As pressure is applied to the brakes, fluid is passed into the Hydrovac (yellow). It by-passes the hydraulic brake piston (# 20, thanks to the check ball), and pressure goes through the lines to the wheel cylinders. At the same time it also passes through a pathway in the unit and applies pressure to (# 10) the control valve hydraulic piston. As more pressure is applied to the brakes, the control valve piston pushes up on the metal rod on the rubber diaphragm (# 7). The metal portion of the diaphram has an air pathway through the center which allows air flow circulation throughout the unit (through the tube (# 9) to the rear of the power cylinder piston). The atmospheric / vacuum valve (# 8 and # 13) is a two part valve located above the diaphragm. It blocks air coming into the Hydrovac due to the spring (# 14) under the intake tube. Brake pressure changes cause the vacuum valve to seat on the rubber diaphragm (shown in pink), sealing the air passage through it and effectively blocking any air coming into the power cylinder (# 1) between the ports (# 6) located in the end plate of the unit and the connecting tube (# 9).

As pressure builds and the diaphragm is pushed even further forward, the atmospheric valve portion opens (shown in purple) allowing air to enter the power cylinder (air path shown in green) and letting the vacuum from the engine pull the power cylinder piston (# 2) forward which pushes the hydraulic brake piston (# 20) into the hydraulic cylinder (# 22). The check ball has pressure from the brake lines pushing back against it now (orange) and seats inside the piston allowing no brake fluid to pass by it back into the master cylinder. Therefore, the piston pushes more brake fluid forward in the lines and braking power increases.

The whole system uses brake pressure to overpower the springs and engage / disengage the control body valves. The reason this system works the way it does is that the vacuum created by the engine is able to travel throughout the Hydrovac unit (shown in red). Therefore with vacuum in front of and behind the power piston, there is equal pressure on both sides. So until the valves close off that circulation and opens the air intake, the power cylinder piston won't move. Closing one valve stops that circulation throughout the unit. Opening the intake allows the cylinder to pull air from behind so the vacuum can pull the power cylinder piston forward. "


REFERENCE: https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/bendix/erickson/

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56D500boy
Posted 2020-06-26 11:56 AM (#600126 - in reply to #600060)
Subject: RE: 1956 Windsor Brake/Tandom Master question



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Twotallkris34 - 2020-06-26 2:44 AM
After doing some more research it seems like a crap shoot if the hydrovac will work or not. So i am going to go with a new remote booster from master power brakes. I also found a tandem master cylindar setup for B bodies that I think will work for the windsor.


Here are a couple of photos of cars that have been converted to conventional power brakes, one that started with a high-mount MC and one that had a low-mount MC (that also had a front disc conversion):



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-06-26 11:59 AM




(55DesotoWithNewStyleVacuumBoosterAndMasterCylinder.JPG)



(DiscBrakeConversionPBBoosterAndDualMCOn55Dodge.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 55DesotoWithNewStyleVacuumBoosterAndMasterCylinder.JPG (159KB - 5 downloads)
Attachments DiscBrakeConversionPBBoosterAndDualMCOn55Dodge.jpg (192KB - 5 downloads)
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Twotallkris34
Posted 2020-06-26 12:36 PM (#600127 - in reply to #600060)
Subject: RE: 1956 Windsor Brake/Tandom Master question


Member

Posts: 16

After doing some more research it seems like a crap shoot if the hydrovac will work or not. So i am going to go with a new remote booster from master power brakes. I also found a tandem master cylindar setup for B bodies that I think will work for the windsor.
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Twotallkris34
Posted 2020-06-26 12:41 PM (#600129 - in reply to #600126)
Subject: RE: 1956 Windsor Brake/Tandom Master question


Member

Posts: 16

Thanks for those pics !! I have the low mount master, I tried a master\booster on a bel crank but it didn't clear the power steering Reservoir.
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