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LA body tag general info
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RDP
Posted 2021-01-30 9:18 AM (#608351)
Subject: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		LA body tag - many of us are trying to figure it out.
Two patterns were used - the first in 1956, the second in 1957-59.

The B/T lower line is easy to decode, but the M codes are puzzling.
This is even more difficult when we say that the tag codes are probably not the same as the IBM card codes.
A 1956 tag contains the codes M1 to M9. The 1957-59 tag is slightly different - the M7, M8, M9 codes are gone.
Instead of them there is a sequence number.

It's hard to decode, but it's not impossible. More research is needed.
I think the same scheme was used for all brands, maybe even all four years.
The factory had to have a system that was easy for workers.
The body tag contains less data than the IBM card and the build sheet.
On the 56 Chrysler / De Soto the body tag is hardly available after the brake booster mounted.
So after this stage B/T it was not used anymore?



(56 BT.jpg)



(57-59 BT.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 56 BT.jpg (36KB - 421 downloads)
Attachments 57-59 BT.jpg (37KB - 400 downloads)
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RDP
Posted 2021-01-30 9:30 AM (#608352 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		Here are a few examples of 56 B/T.
Note that the M4 and M7 codes are never used, the M8 code is always used.



(56 table.JPG)



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Attachments 56 table.JPG (83KB - 395 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2021-01-30 9:32 AM (#608353 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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Great article Robert!
Very much to think about this!

Here I posted a picture of ’58 Dodge Custom Sierra (which less M7, M8, and M9)
But below SEQ NO I see an «8»… it could be an M8 = 8 or a M9 = 8




(1.jpg)



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Attachments 1.jpg (179KB - 409 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-30 10:25 AM (#608358 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: So. Cal		Great table Robert, but it would be good to couple that with the options that each of those came with.
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RDP
Posted 2021-01-30 11:05 AM (#608362 - in reply to #608358)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Powerflite - 2021-01-30 4:25 PM

Great table Robert, but it would be good to couple that with the options that each of those came with.



I have it (at least partially), check the attachment



Attachments
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Attachments 56LA.xlsx (19KB - 438 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-30 11:19 AM (#608365 - in reply to #608353)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info



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frwl - 2021-01-30 6:32 AM
Here I posted a picture of ’58 Dodge Custom Sierra (which less M7, M8, and M9)
But below SEQ NO I see an «8»… it could be an M8 = 8 or a M9 = 8


Same tag, slightly enhanced. Hopefully easier to read.





(58DodgeCowlDataTag_Enhanced_2.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 58DodgeCowlDataTag_Enhanced_2.jpg (248KB - 394 downloads)
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-01-30 4:32 PM (#608376 - in reply to #608365)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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Most likely, SG refers to Solex Glass. EW refers to Electric Windows.

Ron

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RDP
Posted 2021-01-31 3:10 AM (#608392 - in reply to #608376)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		In 1959, the factory sometimes mounted a body tag 56 type.
In these plates, the codes M7, M8, M9 are empty.
I've only seen a few examples. So maybe they used these codes sometimes.
I suppose they did the same in 1957-58.
The plate shown by Igor is interesting. It's a newer type, printed with an old pattern.
8 is not a sequence number, so it must be M8 = 8 or M9 = 8
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RDP
Posted 2021-01-31 8:07 AM (#608396 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		another example: 1957 Plymouth tag
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25108&...

older type of body tag with printed sequence number in place of M7,M8,M9 codes



(57 Data Tag.jpg)



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Attachments 57 Data Tag.jpg (192KB - 393 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2021-01-31 11:12 AM (#608397 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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If the upholstery has the code 423, then it is probably beige (because the last 3 means beige)
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frwl
Posted 2021-01-31 11:12 AM (#608398 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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(1.JPG)



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Attachments 1.JPG (92KB - 391 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2021-01-31 11:21 AM (#608400 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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This is a common practice: on the station wagons, one beige (tan) color was always used
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-31 11:22 AM (#608401 - in reply to #608398)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info



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Igor: If that is your photo, try again, turning the page with the sample 90 deg to the right to concentrate only on the good info. A bit better focus would help.

If it is an eBay photo, maybe this is as good as it gets:

(I see 341, 342, 343, 344 and 346)



Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-31 11:24 AM




(57BelvedereInteriorSamplesAndCodes.jpg)



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Attachments 57BelvedereInteriorSamplesAndCodes.jpg (247KB - 416 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2021-01-31 11:33 AM (#608402 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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BTW

341 = BLUE
342 = GREEN
343 = BEIGE (OR TAN)
344 = BLACK AND WHITE
346 = RED AND WHITE

Question: Where the last five «5» (a code 345) – is that GRAY or not?
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frwl
Posted 2021-01-31 11:33 AM (#608403 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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would be
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RDP
Posted 2021-01-31 12:11 PM (#608408 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		Igor, here is the number 423, but it doesn't matter in this thread.
Let's focus on the M codes.



(423.JPG)



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Attachments 423.JPG (43KB - 398 downloads)
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RDP
Posted 2021-01-31 12:44 PM (#608410 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		here are some examples for 59 Plymouth (see attachment for full table)



(59plym.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments 59plym.JPG (32KB - 407 downloads)
Attachments 1959 Plymouth LA tag.xlsx (14KB - 388 downloads)
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RDP
Posted 2021-02-01 1:36 PM (#608450 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		I just wonder...
If you produce Dodge and Plymouth in the same factory, will you come up with a different marking system for everyone?
Nope, you will use one system. You will only use other numbers.
So, trying to decode each brand's body tags separately we make a mistake. We have to do this at the same time.
Based on 59 Plymouth and Dodge body tags and IBM cards, I know the accessory groups are not marked on the body tag.
Again, based on the 59 Plym, I think M4 = 9 is the toilet seat.
In this thread hhttp://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=75339&posts=11&start=1
Igor said that M4 = 3 for 58 Dodge is a Spring Special option.
Let's call it a custom look, so M4=custom look. If I'm not mistaken, this should work for any brand and year (56-59)
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frwl
Posted 2021-02-02 2:23 AM (#608467 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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Here what I have about 1959 LA-codes for every division of Chrysler Corporation:
Sorry for bad resolution (but still readable) – I took photos from my monitor screen




(59 Chrysler.JPG)



(59 DeSoto.JPG)



(59 Dodge.JPG)



(59 Plymouth.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments 59 Chrysler.JPG (159KB - 410 downloads)
Attachments 59 DeSoto.JPG (82KB - 398 downloads)
Attachments 59 Dodge.JPG (164KB - 393 downloads)
Attachments 59 Plymouth.JPG (72KB - 392 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2021-02-02 2:30 AM (#608468 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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And to the 1958 except Plymouth (not done yet)




(58 Chrysler.JPG)



(58 DeSoto.JPG)



(58 Dodge.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments 58 Chrysler.JPG (96KB - 406 downloads)
Attachments 58 DeSoto.JPG (134KB - 412 downloads)
Attachments 58 Dodge.JPG (174KB - 397 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2021-02-02 2:33 AM (#608469 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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So I guess the lone 8 at the right top corner of '58 Dodge tag means a HOOD ORNAMENT 8 = 408



(lone 8 on top right corner.jpg)



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Attachments lone 8 on top right corner.jpg (248KB - 395 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2021-02-02 2:35 AM (#608470 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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(1.jpg)



(2.jpg)



(3.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 1.jpg (38KB - 424 downloads)
Attachments 2.jpg (55KB - 390 downloads)
Attachments 3.jpg (25KB - 400 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2021-02-02 2:50 AM (#608471 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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The time difference is 8 hours: 10:30 vs 02:30

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RDP
Posted 2021-02-02 10:36 AM (#608475 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		Thanks for sharing Igor. I still have little data. It's hard to find a matching body tag and IBM card. It is necessary for proper verification. A car is not essential.
I suppose the pattern is the same for 1957-58-59. I'm not sure about 1956.
Accessory group, mirror, swivel seat, sport tone is not printed on the tag M codes.
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RDP
Posted 2021-02-02 2:57 PM (#608484 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		I think that ultimately it will look like this



(La data tag.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments La data tag.JPG (49KB - 399 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-02-03 4:10 PM (#608509 - in reply to #608484)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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RDP - 2021-02-02 11:57 AM
I think that ultimately it will look like this


Robert: I truly hope that you can get this sorted, perhaps with help from Igor and myself (?)

I trust that you will be able to incorporate the info from my LA-built 56 Dodge into your table (see below, not for the first time, I've been seeking answers since Oct. 2016)

My 56 Dodge has the D500 engine and 12" Chrysler brakes, 2 spd Powerflite (when it left the factory), Power Steering and Power Brakes but NO power seats, power windows or air conditioning. It does have both outside fender mirrors and Solex glass all around. It was probably delivered to Anacortes Washington by boat to Portland and then truck to Ancortes (Route "4" = boat/truck (??). Not sure about the radio your M1 = 8 suggests the 8 tube radio but it didn't have a radio opening plate, just the closed radio delete plate so that is a problem with no clear answer.

I know everything about the bottomline but the SG to M9 row is still a problem.









Edited by 56D500boy 2021-02-03 9:21 PM
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-02-03 9:37 PM (#608512 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info


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Location: Connecticut		M1 thru M9 probably refer to option groups.

Ron
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-02-03 11:22 PM (#608515 - in reply to #608512)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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ronbo97 - 2021-02-03 6:37 PM
M1 thru M9 probably refer to option groups.
Ron


Sadly, no. Not for LA cars.
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RDP
Posted 2021-02-04 11:17 AM (#608524 - in reply to #608512)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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ronbo97 - 2021-02-04 3:37 AM

M1 thru M9 probably refer to option groups.

Ron


Definitely not. Take a look at this set. There are six groups of accessories, four are ordered and only code stamped M2 = 3.
Or differently - the first car has a group of 2,4,5,7
the second car has a group of 2,3,4,6 - both have M2 = 3. It just doesn't work.




(1A.JPG)



(1B.JPG)



(2A.JPG)



(2B.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments 1A.JPG (78KB - 387 downloads)
Attachments 1B.JPG (242KB - 388 downloads)
Attachments 2A.JPG (112KB - 391 downloads)
Attachments 2B.JPG (127KB - 387 downloads)
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RDP
Posted 2021-02-04 11:25 AM (#608525 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		Thanks Dave. The tag + broadcast sheet + IBM card sets are the most helpful. Unfortunately, finding it is almost impossible.
First, we need to define what is definitely not stamped on the tag.

Edited by RDP 2021-02-04 11:30 AM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2021-02-04 2:53 PM (#608530 - in reply to #608525)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Great thread!  It appears that accessory groups factor into some of the M codes, but not all.  Also, the M codes may vary by make and year.

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Powerflite
Posted 2021-02-04 4:07 PM (#608531 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: So. Cal		I don't know, but I suspect that they have nothing to do with the accessories. They probably only cover the parts that directly affect the body configuration. What that is, I'm not sure.
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frwl
Posted 2021-02-05 5:32 AM (#608544 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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Dave: Sometimes I feel like I'm living with your cowl tag in my head…
Sorry if maybe I have been repeating…
If the numbers 1, 4, 6, and (maybe) 8 indicate a group of accessories according to the Los Angeles codes:
The 1 = means 351 = power steering
I have a question for example: where the digit «5» that does mean power brakes your car equipped with?

I am guessing that the codes on the IBM card are not really order codes…
What if the IBM-card is from LA plant, but the codes stamping (punched) on it, are Detroit-built cars…

By another words: the LA-IBM code that printed on the IBM-card does not mean the order codes, while shows the Detroit (punched) order codes?




(Dave's Dodge 1.jpg)



(Dave's Dodge 2.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Dave's Dodge 1.jpg (205KB - 383 downloads)
Attachments Dave's Dodge 2.jpg (168KB - 387 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2021-02-05 5:46 AM (#608545 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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Robert's IBM-Card shows the codes 381 (or 361) and 385 – here you can install both the power steering and the power brakes…
Just for example what the PS and PB would be…
But you card does not show (punched) the last «5» on any columns - power brakes. (the last column mean the tire size – these are don’t count)




(Robert's IBM-card.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Robert's IBM-card.jpg (222KB - 384 downloads)
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RDP
Posted 2021-02-05 10:55 AM (#608547 - in reply to #608545)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info



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Powerflite - 2021-02-04 10:07 PM

I don't know, but I suspect that they have nothing to do with the accessories. They probably only cover the parts that directly affect the body configuration. What that is, I'm not sure.


I think so too





frwl - 2021-02-05 11:46 AM

.
Robert's IBM-Card shows the codes 381 (or 361) and 385 – here you can install both the power steering and the power brakes…
Just for example what the PS and PB would be…
But you card does not show (punched) the last «5» on any columns - power brakes. (the last column mean the tire size – these are don’t count)



Because it is standard equipment, it is not a stamped.


.
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frwl
Posted 2021-02-05 12:45 PM (#608550 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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Not true, Robert.

1956 Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto,and Chrysler Windsor - PS and PB - are optional equipment

1956 Chrysler New Yorker and 300 B - the power brakes only

1956 Imperial - PS, PB, Pseat, PW - standart

Since 1957 - Saratoga and New Yorker have power steering as STD (I think as by analogue with GM Buick... ) but the power brakes is not

Since 1959 Saratoga and NY models have PS and PB as STD;
From 1971 all Chryslers including Newport have PS and PB as STD eqipment

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frwl
Posted 2021-02-05 1:07 PM (#608552 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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I do not mention this fact
I do mean that PS and PB (for example) is not a standard equipment for your (Robert's Chrysler Windsor) and on the Dave's Dodge

But your Chrysler has 381 and 385 (MAYBE THESE ARE PS AND PB) codes as optional equipment - YOUR car have these items and their stamped on your IBM-card;
DAve's are NOT - that what I say...

I do this fact - maybe no need to bring it - this is a my step to decoding it (perhaps)

I see that my English very bad, but I still to decode it...

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frwl
Posted 2021-02-05 1:13 PM (#608553 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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I do tell to as: might be codes 381 and 385 means a PS and PB on the Robert's Chrysler
but 351(PS) - is present on the Dave's Dodge (but where the PB - last 5 on it)

LA CODES do not specify to DETROIT CODES but theit codes still stamped (punched) on the LA-codes

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RDP
Posted 2021-02-05 1:20 PM (#608554 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		You're right Igor, sorry. PB is standard in NY.
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RDP
Posted 2021-02-07 12:26 PM (#608606 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		I rebuilt my table, actually made a new one. Now all 1956-59 years are in one table, it includes about 70 cars. This shows a few things.
First, it can be seen that the M4 code was not used in 1956. Or it was used so rarely that it does not appear in our examples.
Second, the same M4 code is often used in 1957-59.
Third, in 1957-59, the M8 and M9 codes are not used.
Fourth, the M7 code has never been used.

You can download the table from the attachment.

If you have a 1956-59 car made in LA please share the data tag, IBM card, broadcast sheet. Any help is appreciated.




Attachments
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Attachments 56-59 LA tag.xlsx (38KB - 474 downloads)
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HR738
Posted 2021-02-10 12:00 AM (#608697 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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Posts: 6

Hello,

Rarely post on here, just lurk in the shadows....

1958 Coronet club sedan D500, CHP. Still original paint (what’s left of it), doesn’t have evidence of the masking tape on the tag.

Any help decoding would be great, wasn’t able to figure out all of it.



Attachments
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Attachments D01CF57F-F9BB-4721-8C95-59A7034296F9.jpeg (133KB - 405 downloads)
Attachments F8316ADD-8579-46F7-9B75-0DA6D30FB84D.jpeg (230KB - 401 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-02-10 2:39 AM (#608700 - in reply to #608697)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info



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Some of this you might like. Some not so much (maybe)

LD2L = L =1958, D = Dodge 2 = Coronet V8, L = Los Angeles plant

0102 = Scheduled build date = January 2nd 1958 (but it wasn't shipped until Feb 3rd, 1958)(??)

331 = 3 = Dodge, 3= Coronet V8, 1 = Club Sedan (2dr post)

PT = 999 = Special paint (maybe like all black body with white doors??)

Trim = 123 = Coronet black and white

293 (on the IBM card) = Torqueflite

501 (on the IBM card) = Undercoating (which might be the M5 1 on the cowl data tag)

Now for the "troubling" part (maybe):

I see nothing punched in column 37, e.g. for dual exhaust or D-500.

That said there is 523 which some* say is D500 (single 4 bbl) (524 = Super D500, 2 x 4bbl)

*LancerMike's excellent 58 Dodge Excel spreadsheet




Edited by 56D500boy 2021-02-10 2:42 AM




(58DodgeCHPD500CowlTag.jpg)



(58DodgeCHPD500IBMCard_small.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 58DodgeCHPD500CowlTag.jpg (124KB - 391 downloads)
Attachments 58DodgeCHPD500IBMCard_small.jpg (240KB - 395 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2021-02-10 3:34 AM (#608703 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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It seems like M5 = 1 = 501 = UNDERCOATING when compared to the cowl tags and IBM-cards posted above.
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-02-10 11:28 AM (#608704 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: So. Cal		That does seem like it is the proper indication. My car agrees with that as well, as it does have undercoating on it.
Then we can conclude from my car and the green 4dr hardtop that,
Torqueflite, Radio Accessory group, Deluxe appearance group, Power steering, Power brakes - none of these things are included on the body tag.
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frwl
Posted 2021-02-10 11:35 AM (#608705 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


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Thanks Nathan!
What about UNDERHOOD PAD option on your car?
As a usually this item came with UNDERCOATING...
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RDP
Posted 2021-02-10 11:43 AM (#608706 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: PL / EU		Dan (HR738) thanks for sharing, your dealer 54613 is John Drew Motors, Sacramento, CA

-

So it looks like it trans, heater, b-u lights, wipers and as previously mentioned accessory group, mirror, swivel seat, sport tone is not printed on the tag M codes.

EDIT: I should refresh thread before posting a comment

as Nathan says also PB and PS is not printed on the tag. So what is printed on the tag, we will have nothing left in a moment

-

You can download updated table, now almost 90 cars (thanks again Igor!) from the attachment

Edited by RDP 2021-02-10 12:10 PM




Attachments
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Attachments 56-59 LA tag.xlsx (40KB - 378 downloads)
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Fireflite56
Posted 2021-02-11 12:31 AM (#608726 - in reply to #608706)
Subject: Re: LA body tag general info



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Location: Wisconsin		I have at least one, if not a couple, '56 DeSotos built in LA that I have pairings of data plates and build cards from FCA, as well as a build sheet found behind the back seat like was earlier posted (which I had never seen before until this car). Even better, I know what options these cars had originally. I'll try to post them if I get a chance. I have to do some scanning of paper documents to put together one or more sets.

Dave (56D500boy) - I haven't forgotten about your email request on info for the LA cars. I have just been so busy with work, building up the National DeSoto Club website (I am the new webmaster as of last August), planning the upcoming convention, and working on my cars that it's hard to find time to compile all the work I have on the '56 DeSoto LA cars into a format that is concise and easy to understand.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2021-02-11 3:49 AM (#608734 - in reply to #608700)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info



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Location: The Mile High City

That said there is 523 which some* say is D500 (single 4 bbl) (524 = Super D500, 2 x 4bbl) *LancerMike's excellent 58 Dodge Excel spreadsheet

Thanks, Dave!  The spreadsheet I put together was only applicable to the Detroit cowl tag.  On the Detroit (Hamtramck) cowl tag, a number three in the 24th position indicates a D-500, but the code "523" does not translate to the option codes, punch card, or the broadcast sheet as a D-500 - it just happens to be under a 5 and a 2.

 

Dan's punch card has the motor number as 360 which may be the L360 - an indication of a 1958 D-500 361 cid engine.

 



Edited by Lancer Mike 2021-02-11 3:55 AM
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HR738
Posted 2021-02-11 8:41 AM (#608737 - in reply to #608351)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info


Member

Posts: 6

Mike and Dave,

The engine is a 361, and the engine number matches the IBM card. Was the 361 available without it being a D500? If not, I wonder if the D500 was somehow incorporated into the CHP special order number? Thanks!

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56D500boy
Posted 2021-02-11 10:52 AM (#608742 - in reply to #608737)
Subject: RE: LA body tag general info



Exner Expert 10K+

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HR738 - 2021-02-11 5:41 AM
The engine is a 361, and the engine number matches the IBM card. Was the 361 available without it being a D500? If not, I wonder if the D500 was somehow incorporated into the CHP special order number?


I think that the only 361s in 1958 were the D-500 four bbl and the Super D-500 2 x 4 bbl. The next smaller engine was the 350. See below:

REFERENCE:

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Dodge/1958%20Dodge/1958%20...



Edited by 56D500boy 2021-02-11 10:54 AM




(58DodgeEngineOptions.jpg)



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