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Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?
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Mr. Bob
Posted 2021-02-09 10:20 PM (#608692)
Subject: Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?


Regular

Posts: 66
2525
Location: Ferndale, WA 98248
My 61 Newport 300G tribute car is a cold blooded beast with cross rams on a 440, until the rams are fully up to temperature. Which can take 10+ minutes in these parts, even in the summer. The block heats up fairly quickly, but it takes a while for the engine heat to warm up the rams. It does not have the ram exhaust manifolds and associated piping to heat the undersides of the cross rams and carbs.

On the undersides of the rams where the exhaust piping would connect, my shop is proposing installing fittings so we could connect heater hoses instead. Which would of course circulate 180 degree antifreeze thru the chamber under the carbs instead of super hot, corrosive exhaust gases.

Heating the rams with coolant was used on some short ram cars. All of the long rams were exhaust heated.

I've never heard of anyone converting rams from exhaust heated to coolant heated. I don't know that the factory coolant heated rams had any special construction compared to exhausted heated rams (outside of being short rams).

What potential problems are we overlooking here? Any opinions or experiences regarding this?
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-02-09 11:34 PM (#608695 - in reply to #608692)
Subject: Re: Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9580
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Location: So. Cal
I suggest converting it to EFI. A better solution in the end, and having a cold air intake will be beneficial to power.
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NM Desoto
Posted 2021-02-10 1:03 AM (#608698 - in reply to #608692)
Subject: RE: Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?


Veteran

Posts: 145
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After I rebuilt the engine in my '63 300J, I ran the car for a few months with the heat tubes completely blocked off. I got ambitious
and made a set of hose adapters to water cool the intakes. I really did not notice any difference in the way it ran in either warm or
cold weather, it always took a little time to warm up the manifolds. Since then, I just went back to blocking them off.
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R41HP
Posted 2021-02-12 1:13 AM (#608774 - in reply to #608692)
Subject: Re: Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?


Veteran

Posts: 256
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Location: Chicago
Having driven a long ram car for many years without carb heat, and then driving it with (exhaust) carb heat, I agree it’s a significant warmup and driveability issue. Never heard of a long ram car converted to water heat. There is no difference with the short ram casting numbers for exhaust or water heat as far as I know. So, maybe you could do it with long rams. Our fellow member StillOutThere once pointed out water heating rams takes about an extra 11 feet of heater hose and numerous fittings, so there is that
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finsruskw
Posted 2021-02-12 9:20 AM (#608779 - in reply to #608692)
Subject: Re: Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?


Expert

Posts: 2289
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Location: Eastern Iowa
That many more locations for cold weather water leaks as well.
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StillOutThere
Posted 2021-02-12 1:55 PM (#608784 - in reply to #608692)
Subject: Re: Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas
The 300F, 300G and 300H Short Ram cars had their rams water HEATED. They still take time to heat up fully because engine heat is like that. But it is what the factory did and you can do it too. Just build a plate with two tubes in and out of it. The factory ran the hot water off the pump to the right side first, around the back, and then through the left side before returning it to the block. Simple really



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wizard
Posted 2021-02-12 1:58 PM (#608786 - in reply to #608692)
Subject: Re: Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island
Makes me think that an electric water heater in the block would give you an engine with close to normal working temperature and thereby solve the problems with cold start more easily ?
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Mr. Bob
Posted 2021-02-12 10:27 PM (#608813 - in reply to #608692)
Subject: Re: Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?


Regular

Posts: 66
2525
Location: Ferndale, WA 98248
Thank you all for the replies. My shop is named Heavy Metal Custom Shop, they can pretty much fabricate anything out of metal. They took the trans mount out of my 61 and the mount out of the 71 donor car that supplied the 440 and trans, cut them up, then welded the ears from the 61 to the center section from the 71 back together to make the trans mount now in the car. Just another day at the office for them. Making the plates with the tubes as StillOutThere suggested will be easy for them, the shop and I have already discussed that. Appreciate you posting that photo, too.

We were thinking of running the hoses in series with the heater hoses (off a T thru the rams, back to another T, and then to the heater core), but it sounds like the factory setup had a separate hose loop just for the rams. I could see how having the rams on their own hose loop could have advantages. Will revisit this with the shop. Please post any photos you may have of what the factory setup looked like at the water pump.

Thank you!

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matador60
Posted 2021-02-14 3:54 PM (#608906 - in reply to #608692)
Subject: RE: Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?



Regular

Posts: 71
2525
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
I have done this an it works fine. use heater hose where it goes into heater install a pipe with two nipples
to hook lines to. run lines to plates on bottom of each side (make plate to cover where exhaust heat goes in
an another one to block the other hole) I fixed a brace to other one to kill vibration.
then do the same for the top one. run that to the top radiator hose by making a sleeve to go inside it
with two fittings.
I have pictures but i don't know how to send them. might be able to get grandkids to do it..
I also put fuel injection on it. (fitech)
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Mr. Bob
Posted 2021-02-15 3:48 PM (#608957 - in reply to #608692)
Subject: Re: Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?


Regular

Posts: 66
2525
Location: Ferndale, WA 98248
Matador60 - thanks for the info. If you can get the grandkids to do it (there are posts in Help With Using This Board on how to post photos) I would like to see some photos of your setup. And the fuel injection.

Actually, I like to see photos of your whole car inside and out - I really like 60 Matadors! You can Private Mail them to me if that is easier.
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Mr. Bob
Posted 2021-03-29 10:50 PM (#610523 - in reply to #608692)
Subject: Re: Long Cross Rams - convert to water heated?


Regular

Posts: 66
2525
Location: Ferndale, WA 98248
I had my shop make the plates with heater hose connections to bolt to the underside of the rams, and then hooked them up into a heater hose loop. Water heated long rams I have!

Made a HUGE difference in my climate. Had it out recently on a 55 degree day with no issues engaging from a dead stop. It was great to be able to pull out into an intersection and not fear for my life that the car would stall! Seemed to run better at all speeds/RPMs, but that could be simply because it took off from a dead stop so much better now.
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