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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | Just pulled in from a 5-6 hr drive down from the Canadian border[around 375+ miles]. Ran a little warmer than usual all the way down but never got really hot. I was running 75-80 all the way and still got over 17MPG.
Real nice drive. Checked my water on the way down. It was dark and couldn't really see well but it LOOKED like there was water. Needed over a gallon once I checked it out at home. Used a quart of oil up and 1 down.
I think I may be loosing my trans[powerflight]? It takes a while to go into reverse where it used to snap in. Can that be a minor issue or is it time for another rebuild? I have around 70,000 since the last rebuild and that's including towing my boat to Canada several times.
I've had the original radiator repaired 4 times and recored but it is starting to leak at the tank again. What is a good replacement? |
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Posts: 1348
Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | Sorry, it's a 60 Plymouth.
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13049
 
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Try first with a seal saver - I'd recommend Omega 917 |
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Location: N.W. Fla. | What engine? PF or TF? |
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Posts: 1348
Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | 318 / PF |
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Posts: 1348
Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | Thanks, I'll put some in.
No idea what the problem may be but at this point, I really doubt it will get better on it's own. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | If it does go bad, that sounds like a good opportunity to swap to a 3 speed trans. Especially for towing. |
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Posts: 1348
Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | I just looked up Omega 917 and says it is a seal saver but what I read, didn't say anything about conditioning the trans or anything?
Is it a conditioning treatment also or strictly a seal saver?
It has no leaks now so I'm guessing it would be a good idea to add it but IF I might be tearing it apart soon anyway, is it worth it to add now? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7400
Location: northern germany | What Nathan said, unless you do not want to do alot of driving. I know, it worked back in the day for millions but, personally it is beyond me how people can live with just 2 gears, even 3 are not enough. I'd change to a T-Flite and experince a whole new driving experience. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13049
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | udoittwo - 2021-08-11 10:51 PM
I just looked up Omega 917 and says it is a seal saver but what I read, didn't say anything about conditioning the trans or anything?
Is it a conditioning treatment also or strictly a seal saver?
It has no leaks now so I'm guessing it would be a good idea to add it but IF I might be tearing it apart soon anyway, is it worth it to add now?
Omega 917 will soften the internal rubber seals, thereby less internal leakage. Selfunderstood a torn or frayed seal will still leak.
So in transmissions, Omega 917 will seal more internally than externally. So, if you're lucky You might not need a trans rebuild.
In engines, there's only the front crank seal that will be affected.
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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | I have at least 70,000 on this rebuilt PF with at least 7 - 6 HR tows to and from Canada with no issues until now so I'm not sure about swapping over to a 3 or more speed.
I'm happy with it as is but what are the advantages of more gears and I have no interest in how you can race and beat them. I never beat or race my cars.
IF I were interested in swapping over, what trans is a fairly easy swap? I'm guessing a TF but how easy are they to find and are parts for them available?
When was "PARK" first used? Can any newer trannies be used with out major modifications? |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | udoittwo - 2021-08-15 9:20 AM
I have at least 70,000 on this rebuilt PF with at least 7 - 6 HR tows to and from Canada with no issues until now so I'm not sure about swapping over to a 3 or more speed.
I'm happy with it as is but what are the advantages of more gears and I have no interest in how you can race and beat them. I never beat or race my cars.
IF I were interested in swapping over, what trans is a fairly easy swap? I'm guessing a TF but how easy are they to find and are parts for them available?
When was "PARK" first used? Can any newer trannies be used with out major modifications?
What do you mean by "beat"?
33 years of ownership here, almost daily driving with an engine that has never been rebuild since August 18 1959 (heads never been off) that still runs like new and never caused any troubles, and I race it whenever I can. A high speed, full throttle run once in a while is beneficial for an engine and 1 more gear takes stress away from the drivetrain. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | The biggest advantage is it provides you with a lower first gear, which makes it easier to start out with a heavy weight. Sid is right, that towing with a Powerflite is hard on the transmission because that first gear is so high. Alternatively, you could put in a higher gear in the rear end with a 3 speed to reduce cruising rpm. A TF has more parts availability than your powerflite so there is no comparison really. The only downside to swapping to a 3 speed is it will use a little more power to run than your 2 speed trans. A '62-'65 push button 727 transmission would give you the park function, and you can adapt it to your engine by using an adapter from Hot Heads. That's the transmission that I prefer. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | PF cars usually have a lower final drive ratio. I couldn't live with that, even a 2.93 is actually too short for me. Continued high rpm driving will increase engine wear. Also the higher first gear is harder on the drivetrain and of course the bigger step from 1. to 2. is tough for the drivetrain. Just imagine riding a bicycle accelerating w/o gears or skipping a gear. It is tiresome, energy wasting and can lead to insuries. Same is true for machinery, only the machinery can't adjust/recover to/from that, it just wears down. I consider the use of a PF "beating"  |
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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | This might all be irrelevant. Stopped at the place that rebuilt it 17 years ago and a few other tranny shops and no one rebuilds them anymore. For what it might cost to send it out, I'm thinking I may have no choice but to move into a newer style trans? PFs & TFs are same era so same issues with getting one rebuilt. They might be out of the question. That's why I try to buy any spare parts I can. They don't make parts and no one knows how to work on them anymore.
I've been Chevy all my life until I bought the 60 Plymouth Suburban[which I believe has a different gear ratio than a sedan?] and as far as I know, you can bolt just about any trans on a GM block from the mid 50s for at least the next 70 years. What can be mounted to a 1960 318 poly without major modifications?
Even if I found a TF in good condition, what would it take to make that work? I had a complete 60 Plymouth TF dash and recently sold all the push button parts.
Not sure where to go now, I just thought someone could still rebuild it. |
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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | Regardless of what happens, I need drop the pan, do a visual inspection and change the fluid.
What is the correct pan gasket for a 1960 powerflight? I've found an 18 bolt gasket that some show is correct[FELPRO TOS 18407]
but others say that is for 1955-59 and not for a 1960? |
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Location: Connecticut | There are lots of folks that rebuild PFs. They may not be local to you, however. I guarantee that if you try to install a later tranny in your wagon, you will be going down a rabbit hole that you will never come out of. If you think all the (unneccessary) hassles that you went thru with your brakes were troublesome, what you are suggesting is 100x more difficult. Try RockAuto for the PowerFLITE pan gasket. Ron
Edited by ronbo97 2021-08-16 10:30 PM
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Location: Muskego, WI | Since you have an original 1960 318 Poly, your "bolt up" transmission options are limited. Either an old 3 speed on the column (which would be a significant project since you already have a PF in the car), rebuild your PF or upgrade to an early TF. The TF swap would be the easiest, but you'd be in the same situation you're in now if you ever need parts or another rebuild.
You could upgrade to a "modern" automatic, like a 46RH TorqueFlite with overdrive or the GM equivalent, but you'll lose use of your pushbuttons. However, you would gain performance, economy and improved driver enjoyment. I have an AX15 5 speed manual in my 1960 Plymouth wagon, which bolts right up to my newer 1962 Poly 318, and my car is a joy to drive and is pretty easy on gas. Here is a quick gear ratio comparison for you between trans and gear ratios so you can see what I'm talking about.
PowerFlite Wagon
1st = 1.69 x 3.54 rear = 5.98
2nd = 1.00 x 3.54 rear = 3.54
TorqueFlite Wagon
1st = 2.45 x 3.31 rear = 8.11
2nd = 1.45 x 3.31 rear = 4.80
3rd = 1.00 x 3.31 rear = 3.31
AX15 Wagon (originally a TF car so rear gears are 3.31)
1st = 3.83 x 3.31 rear = 12.68
2nd = 2.33 x 3.31 rear = 7.71
3rd = 1.44 x 3.31 rear = 5.98
4th = 1.00 x 3.31 rear = 4.77
5th = 0.79 x 3.31 rear = 2.61
You can see the PF is at a serious disadvantage in terms of towing/accelerating and cruising. In fact, you could put 2.76 gears in your wagon and still have better acceleration with a TF than your PF with your stock gears.
Edited by jboymechanic 2021-08-16 3:08 PM
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Location: northern germany | udoittwo - 2021-08-16 1:27 PM
This might all be irrelevant. Stopped at the place that rebuilt it 17 years ago and a few other tranny shops and no one rebuilds them anymore. For what it might cost to send it out, I'm thinking I may have no choice but to move into a newer style trans? PFs & TFs are same era so same issues with getting one rebuilt.
I'm a strong believer in factory build driverains. I can't stand rebuild things from these new so called "mechanics". My OE TF lasted from 1959 to 2002. I installed a high mileage 61 Imperial TF "temporarily" to fix the OE one meanwhile and got me 2 untouched, virgin, working factory TFs as a back up.....The OE one and the other 2 are still untouched and the Imp unit still works flawless, after about 100k in my Fury (allegedly more than 100k on the TF when I bought it), apart from a delayed N to D/R sometimes (did it from the beginning and didn't get worse), which is always a nice thrill, if you are in the middle of the night, nowhere:)
OK, a few years have passed, but If I can do that in Germany, you shouldn't have a problem finding a working TF in the US, for less money than a rebuild and put together by people who weren't millenials and knew what they were doing. |
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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | For me, this being my only MOPAR other than a 69 440 Roadrunner[obviously a totally different animal] I don't know anything about what runs better, smoother, faster, ect.
I've had no complaints with the PF. It's always cruised find as far as I know, gets around 20 MPG on flat surfaces and I got 17.8 coming home from Canada at 80 MPH up and down mountains.
Never smoked the tires but I never had any urge too. So for me, if I cna stay with what I have, that will be fine too.
What all would be needed to switch to a TF? I do have a TF dash but it's an AC dash. I looked it and it still has the selector or what ever it is called but no buttons, cables, or the bezel.
Over the years I have bought enough "rebuilt", "great condition" trannies to know better so any trans I got would need at least a good going over or rebuild.
So what am I up to, trying to find parts, buy and probably rebuild a trans, ect. $4000-5000? Is it as simple as unbolt the PF and bolt on the TF? What about the torque converter? |
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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | Trans. have always intimidated me but I have rebuilt several motors including this one which now has around 70,000 since the rebuild.
I believe a PF has around 150 parts +/-? How difficult are they to rebuild? Are "special tools" required? Is there a PF rebuild manual? |
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Location: Muskego, WI | Since your car was built to accept either trans, I believe the swap would be relatively easy. Parts manuals would be a good place to check for different part numbers, but I think you'd need the following:
Push buttons and dash plate
Shift mechanism (behind the buttons)
Shift Cable
Drive shaft (I think the TF is slightly longer than a PF trans)
Trans mount
Drive shaft
I'm pretty certain your torque converter, bell housing, starter and transmission cross member would all be reused as-is. I think your park brake cable and speedo cable would be reused as well. |
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just home from vacation
