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Okay what am I missing here - Bottom of Front Fender to Rocker Attachment
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-08-16 7:54 PM (#614243)
Subject: Okay what am I missing here - Bottom of Front Fender to Rocker Attachment



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The other day I noticed that the bottom of my right front fender (56 Dodge) was sticking out a bit too much. When I investigated, I saw that there was no fender washer under the 1/4" x 20 bolt that was there. Naturally, I said to myself "Well, I have to fix that !!". So I got out my 3/8" drive ratchet and a 1/2" hex socket and proceeded to snap the bolt off, inside a the recess in the rocker. Brilliant. I didn't even give the use of MooVit or PB Blaster first, a second's thought. I just went ahead like an idiot (Part 1).

Part 2: I drilled up through the remnants of the bolt and then soaked it with Moovit.

Part 3: I bought two kinds of "EasyOuts" - conventional spiral and a square type with four flutes. The four flute type did not work at all so I tried the conventional type. I selected the largest size I could get into the 5/32" hole that I had drilled and then proceeded to snap it off like an idiot (see above).

Part 4: I used various drill bits on the broken EasyOut and beside it (by that time, I didn't care, I just needed it out). Eventually a got one of my 1987 German High Speed Steel bits out and chucked it in my corded 3/8" Dewalt drill. This thing was not going to beat me. Not long into that exercise, I seemed to drill through something. When I looked up, I was starting at a square hole, i.e. there was some kind of captured square nut there. But now it is gone (presumably laying in the bottom inside of the fender).

Questions:

1. Can I access the inside of the bottom of the fender from the inside of the car if I remove the kick panel? I don't really want to have remove the front fender so solve this problem.

2. What can I use to recreate that captured nut knowing that I can not weld. I am thinking a plastic insert. Something like this:



REFERENCE Diagram and Photo:



Edited by 56D500boy 2021-08-17 10:20 AM




(56DodgeFenderDiagram_Annotated_2.jpg)



(56DodgeRightFrontFenderAttachmentPoint_WhatIsMissing_Annotated.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 56DodgeFenderDiagram_Annotated_2.jpg (214KB - 104 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeRightFrontFenderAttachmentPoint_WhatIsMissing_Annotated.jpg (228KB - 94 downloads)
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GaryS
Posted 2021-08-16 9:47 PM (#614245 - in reply to #614243)
Subject: Re: Okay what am I missing here - Bottom of Front Fender to Rocker Attachment



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The square hole looks like it's for a floating, captured nutplate. My '56 Plymouth was rotted out in that location and just had a bolt and nut that was nearly impossible to access.

Edited by GaryS 2021-08-16 9:50 PM
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Steve1956
Posted 2021-08-16 10:11 PM (#614246 - in reply to #614243)
Subject: RE: Okay what am I missing here - Bottom of Front Fender to Rocker Attachment


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If you are not in a hurry, hold on for a couple of months and i will be able to show you exactly. One side of my lower firewall, where the fender bolts up in the position you are referring has major rust and the captured nut was sheared off when I tried to tighten a bolt up and now i have just a hole as you have. ( Photo shows nut still in place)

The other side still had a bolt and washer, so like you I attached a ratchet, after spraying up as best I could some lubricant, and the bolt seemed to shear remarkably easily. I was pretty sure there was a captured nut and bracket floating when I looked as best I could.

So now my plan when the car gets back to the body shop for the next stage of repair is to repair the RHS rust and replace material and captured nut.

The other side ( LHS), which does not have apparent rust will now also be "cut" open to allow a captured nut to be reinstated.

The photo of the captured nut I what i expect was originally attached.

Edited by Steve1956 2021-08-16 10:29 PM




(IMG_2242.1.JPG)



(Captured nut.jpg)



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Attachments IMG_2242.1.JPG (140KB - 98 downloads)
Attachments Captured nut.jpg (16KB - 98 downloads)
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60 dart
Posted 2021-08-16 11:51 PM (#614247 - in reply to #614243)
Subject: Re: Okay what am I missing here - Bottom of Front Fender to Rocker Attachment



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rivnut might help you , just go to a bigger if you can -----------------------------------------later
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-08-17 2:31 AM (#614248 - in reply to #614246)
Subject: RE: Okay what am I missing here - Bottom of Front Fender to Rocker Attachment



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Thanks for the insights Steve but I can not wait for a couple months. A couple of days....maybe

I think that I will pursue Riv Nuts and/or Jack Nuts.



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22mafeja
Posted 2021-08-17 6:17 AM (#614253 - in reply to #614248)
Subject: RE: Okay what am I missing here - Bottom of Front Fender to Rocker Attachment


Elite Veteran

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Thank you for the very authentic description of how the diy man attacks a stuck bolt. I have done that too and thought similar thoughts about myself....
This is how I would solve that issue..if you have a mig you of course weld the piece of 1,5mm sheet metal. Pop rivets can also be used if they are steel ones.
The u-nut could be at least 1/4" rather 5/16".


Edited by 22mafeja 2021-08-17 6:20 AM




(IMG_20210817_114727_resized_20210817_010740724 (1).jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_20210817_114727_resized_20210817_010740724 (1).jpg (233KB - 101 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-08-20 7:59 PM (#614342 - in reply to #614243)
Subject: RE: Okay what am I missing here - Bottom of Front Fender to Rocker Attachment



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
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Yesterday, I opened up a hole at the bottom of the firewall near where the bottom fender attachment point is located. I cleaned a lot of dirt out of there (not sure where it would have gotten in there (maybe if the outer rocker had rotted at some point in time (it was replaced long before I got the car)). Anyway, in the process of cleaning that crud out, I managed (more through luck than skill) to retrieve the captured nut and the broken bolt (and broken EasyOut). There is no way in H3KK that I would have been able to get that bolt out. I would have been better to drill it out completely and then retap it one size larger. Oh well. Live and learn.

At least I got to see how well (maybe some skill and/or luck) I had been able to drill an 1/8" hole right up the center of the bolt. If only I just carried on and drilled it out.

The piece in question (which must have originally been spot welded to the bottom bit of the fire wall):





(56DodgeRightFrontFenderAttachmentPoint_BoltReceiver_1.jpg)



(56DodgeRightFrontFenderAttachmentPoint_BoltReceiver_2.jpg)



(56DodgeRightFrontFenderAttachmentPoint_BoltReceiver_3.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 56DodgeRightFrontFenderAttachmentPoint_BoltReceiver_1.jpg (107KB - 101 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeRightFrontFenderAttachmentPoint_BoltReceiver_2.jpg (105KB - 99 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeRightFrontFenderAttachmentPoint_BoltReceiver_3.jpg (149KB - 94 downloads)
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