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Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.
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lmctaggart
Posted 2021-12-28 12:44 PM (#617977)
Subject: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


Member

Posts: 10

Location: Mississippi		I am looking for a replacement Starter for My 1958 Dodge Royal with a 361. The engine came out of a 65 fury but the car has the original Transmission. The old starter is dragging i have taken it apart and greased and oiled it a couple of times and it seems to help for a little while. I would like to replace it with a gear reduction starter. I have been looking online, there are several listed on summit racing but none of the bolt patterns look correct. Any help would be appreciated.



(starter top.jpg)



(starter side.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments starter top.jpg (44KB - 66 downloads)
Attachments starter side.jpg (38KB - 67 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2021-12-28 12:54 PM (#617978 - in reply to #617977)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


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you can get this for like 42$ on rock auto with the coupon...

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-336-1043-Professional-Starter-Remanuf...

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imopar380
Posted 2021-12-28 12:59 PM (#617979 - in reply to #617977)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.



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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada		Are you sure it has the original transmission? If so, then I am sure that the crank would have to have been changed on the newer 361 engine to mate up with the original transmission, assuming it's a cast iron torqueflite. They aren't compatible, otherwise. There are modern gear reduction starters available to mate with the original, assuming you have the original torqueflite. I have one of these installed in my 1960 Chrysler Saratoga, but the car has the original 383 engine and the original cast iron torqueflite. https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=600
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lmctaggart
Posted 2021-12-28 1:32 PM (#617980 - in reply to #617979)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


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Posts: 10

Location: Mississippi		I just uploaded some pictures to the original post. Does this look similar to yours?
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lmctaggart
Posted 2021-12-28 1:33 PM (#617981 - in reply to #617978)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


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Posts: 10

Location: Mississippi		I just addded some pictures to the original post. The link says its not compatible with the 58 royal.
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-12-28 4:07 PM (#617983 - in reply to #617981)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		.
Things that are going to be important to finding a starter for your situation will be:

a) the number of teeth on the starter drive

b) the number of teeth on the ring gear on the torque converter (or flexplate).

c) the actual transmission that you are talking about as in this one or the one below it?







Edited by 56D500boy 2021-12-28 4:12 PM
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-12-28 4:18 PM (#617985 - in reply to #617983)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


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A couple of questions: What is the part number on the tag on the starter ?

Also, are you certain that the engine came out of a 65 ? I'm asking because AFAIK, you can't mate a later engine with a cast iron TF.

Ron

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lmctaggart
Posted 2021-12-28 5:26 PM (#617988 - in reply to #617977)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


Member

Posts: 10

Location: Mississippi		All the history i know about the car from it original owner is That the burned up the original 350 in the car and couldn't find parts for it so he found a 361 already built out of a "65 fury" As far as I know as i know everything else is original. I am about to head to the shop and will pull it up on some ramps and get some pictures of the transmission. thank you.
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-12-28 5:33 PM (#617989 - in reply to #617988)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


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If you could get the engine number off the block, that would help in identifying if it's actually from a 65 Fury. Also, the starter part number would be helpful.

Ron

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56D500boy
Posted 2021-12-28 7:10 PM (#617993 - in reply to #617988)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		.
Mopar did not offer a 361 in the 1965 Plymouths just 318s, 383s and 413s.

I can't really find any Mopar 361s after 1964.

1963: Plymouth (and Chrysler):



1964 Plymouth (at least in the export market):



1965 Plymouth:



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Viper Guy
Posted 2021-12-28 7:39 PM (#617994 - in reply to #617977)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.



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Location: Branson, MO		Unless the above is referencing Fury’s only, I believe that the information above might not be complete. My sister-in-law had a ‘65 Belvedere with a 273. Barracudas and Valiants had 273s too. Also there was a 383 two barrel that is not shown. A low block 383 is a bored out 361.
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lmctaggart
Posted 2021-12-29 12:58 PM (#618008 - in reply to #617977)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


Member

Posts: 10

Location: Mississippi		the Engine casting number is a 2120229. I believe cannot make out the last digit.



(Screenshot_20211229-120133_Gallery.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Screenshot_20211229-120133_Gallery.jpg (131KB - 66 downloads)
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lmctaggart
Posted 2021-12-29 1:32 PM (#618010 - in reply to #617977)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


Member

Posts: 10

Location: Mississippi		juat got to the casting number on the Transmission. it is a 1736413-4. the best I can make out ill attach another picture.



(20211229_122920.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 20211229_122920.jpg (183KB - 73 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-12-29 2:54 PM (#618013 - in reply to #618008)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.



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lmctaggart - 2021-12-29 9:58 AM
the Engine casting number is a 2120229. I believe cannot make out the last digit.


Casting numbers don't work for us, trying to help you. Find the stamped engine number on the top of the engine, near the front, or on the front side of one of the heads (probably the left side).

Then we can help you better.

Like this:





Edited by 56D500boy 2021-12-29 3:03 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-12-29 3:14 PM (#618014 - in reply to #618010)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.



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lmctaggart - 2021-12-29 10:32 AM
just got to the casting number on the Transmission. it is a 1736413-4. the best I can make out ill attach another picture.


The casting number for the 1957 Windsor Torqueflite that I used in my 56 Dodge is also 1736 413 so you are in the ball park. What we really want to see is the number that is stamped on the machined flat area by the filler tube (see examples below):









Edited by 56D500boy 2021-12-29 3:15 PM
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lmctaggart
Posted 2021-12-29 6:45 PM (#618018 - in reply to #617977)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


Member

Posts: 10

Location: Mississippi		Attached is the Stamped number on the Transmission, I remembered that they gave me another old starter, Im not 100% sure that it came off of this car. The only number that I found stamped in the block was under the distributor and all it was was P 36 ?



(Engine stamp number2.jpg)



(old starter2.jpg)



(Transmission stamped number2.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Engine stamp number2.jpg (104KB - 67 downloads)
Attachments old starter2.jpg (337KB - 67 downloads)
Attachments Transmission stamped number2.jpg (70KB - 67 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-12-29 8:15 PM (#618019 - in reply to #618018)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		.
Now we are getting somewhere.

1823 593 is a good 57-58 Cast Iron A- 466 Torqueflite assembly part number.

1889 297 (aka MDT 7001) should be a good 1958 or 1959 part number bit I can not get a good hit.

There must be a better part number for the engine somewhere than simply P36 (or maybe that is enough) ?? Turns out that it is enough: P36 is a 1960 361. R36 would be a 1961 361 (see below).

That makes it easier to find a starter. Rock Auto lists two for a 1960 Plymouth 361

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1296276&cc=1348512&pt=41...

and

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=12526625&cc=1348512&pt=4... (as an MDU 6003, which shows up below as PN 1889 260 for a 1960 Plymouth (and Dodge) V8):

Edited by 56D500boy 2021-12-30 10:33 AM




(1823593_57-58CastIronTorquefliteAssemblyPN.jpg)



(1889297StarterMotorFailedSearch_1.jpg)



(1960MoparEngineDesignations_P36_361.jpg)



(1961MoparEngineDesignations_R36_361.jpg)



(1960Mopar361StarterAtRockAuto.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 1823593_57-58CastIronTorquefliteAssemblyPN.jpg (175KB - 65 downloads)
Attachments 1889297StarterMotorFailedSearch_1.jpg (214KB - 68 downloads)
Attachments 1960MoparEngineDesignations_P36_361.jpg (117KB - 71 downloads)
Attachments 1961MoparEngineDesignations_R36_361.jpg (106KB - 69 downloads)
Attachments 1960Mopar361StarterAtRockAuto.jpg (119KB - 58 downloads)
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lmctaggart
Posted 2021-12-31 5:05 PM (#618054 - in reply to #617977)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


Member

Posts: 10

Location: Mississippi		Thanks for the help identifying my engine and trans. Have any of you found a newer gear reduction starter that will fit this engine.
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-12-31 7:35 PM (#618059 - in reply to #618054)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.



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lmctaggart - 2021-12-31 2:05 PM
Thanks for the help identifying my engine and trans. Have any of you found a newer gear reduction starter that will fit this engine.


Be aware that because you have cast iron A-466 Torqueflite, the bell housing is separate. This is in contrast to the later 727 Aluminum case
Torqueflites that had integral bell housings. Starters for the Aluminum cased 727 will not (likely) work for your situation.
You need a starter that fits to the separate bell housing.

Your Bellhousing should be PN 1736 436, use a 2 bolt starter, and look something like this



REFERENCE to Bell Housing (For sale): https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/d/seattle-1958-chrysler-bell-...

There is a good thread (reference link below), that included links to a couple of suppliers:

https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=600

You would need to call these guys directly to see what they have for your situation. (You will need the number of teeth on the torque converter ring gear):

http://www.hitorque.com/Hi_Torque_Gear_Reduction_Starter_s/1.htm

PowerFlite's (Nathan N's) photo from the REFERENCE thread:

REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=66444&...









Edited by 56D500boy 2021-12-31 8:25 PM
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imopar380
Posted 2021-12-31 8:27 PM (#618060 - in reply to #618059)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.



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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada		Since his engine is the 361 big block and he has the cast iron torqueflite, I would think that this one should work as long as the number of teeth match.
https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=600 Chrysler 1959-1961 non Hemi (126-001) $245.00
This is the one that Chris (Islander 62) and I installed in our 60 and 61 Chryslers, respectively, with the big block engines and cast iron torqueflites.
The only issue was the need to file down one area where it butts against the engine block.
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-12-31 9:00 PM (#618061 - in reply to #618054)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


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lmctaggart - 2021-12-31 5:05 PM Thanks for the help identifying my engine and trans. Have any of you found a newer gear reduction starter that will fit this engine.

What engine *do* you have ? I must've missed it amongst all the extraneous images posted to this thread. Based on the 2120229 casting number, I would say it was a 61 or 62 B-block. That would attach to the earlier cast iron TF.

Ron

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56D500boy
Posted 2022-01-01 12:06 AM (#618062 - in reply to #618061)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.



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ronbo97 - 2021-12-31 6:00 PM

lmctaggart - 2021-12-31 5:05 PM Thanks for the help identifying my engine and trans. Have any of you found a newer gear reduction starter that will fit this engine.

What engine *do* you have ? I must've missed it amongst all the extraneous images posted to this thread. Based on the 2120229 casting number, I would say it was a 61 or 62 B-block. That would attach to the earlier cast iron TF.



Stay focussed there Ron.

p36 = 1960 361







Edited by 56D500boy 2022-01-01 12:08 AM
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lmctaggart
Posted 2022-01-01 10:54 AM (#618070 - in reply to #617977)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


Member

Posts: 10

Location: Mississippi		Thank you guys I guess ill have to get the jack stands out and get to counting flywheel teeth. Yes my bell housing does look like the one pictured well the bottom of it anyway. I believe i ave all the info I need to find the starter. Ill report back once i get one in and installed. On another note is there any way to make this forum notify you when some one responds to a thread??
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ronbo97
Posted 2022-01-01 12:47 PM (#618075 - in reply to #618062)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


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56D500boy - 2022-01-01 12:06 AM Stay focussed there Ron. p36 = 1960 361   :)

Oh, I'm sorry, Dave ! I must've missed that amongst the dozens of extraneous, oversized images that you insisted on posting. Or maybe that could have been clearly stated, since most folks don't know that P36 is 1960 361.

And BTW, it's spelled 'focused'. Just FYI.

Ron

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56D500boy
Posted 2022-01-01 2:13 PM (#618079 - in reply to #618075)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.



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ronbo97 - 2022-01-01 9:47 AM Oh, I'm sorry, Dave ! I must've missed that amongst the dozens of extraneous, oversized images that you insisted on posting.


Sorry, Ron. What you call "extraneous", I call "proof" of what I am saying. Some folks call those items of substantiation of information, "References".

Now we (well, at least I) now know that P36 = a 1960 361 V8, not to be confused with a R36 which was a 1961 361. I did NOT know that before and wanted to share the "new" information.

Just sayin'

Happy New Year.



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-01-01 2:48 PM
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ronbo97
Posted 2022-01-01 4:48 PM (#618086 - in reply to #618079)
Subject: Re: Starter 1958 Dodge royal 361 with a Torque flite.


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I think words, such as 'According to ...' would be more than sufficient. Otherwise, the main point of the discussion gets lost..

Ron

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