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Sticky Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-01-14 9:01 PM (#618433)
Subject: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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The Powerflite 2 spd automatic transmission was introduced in 1954 and it soldiered on until at least 1961. The 3 speed cast-Iron A-466 Torqueflite was an evolution of the 2 spd Powerflite and,
as such, shared more than a few parts. It started in late 1956 model year in some Imperials and Chryslers and became more available in 1957. It too soldiered on until 1961 when it was replaced in
the 1962 model year with the aluminum case "727" Torqueflite. In the interim, there were several changes made to the Torqueflite in 1959 so there really are two cast-iron Torqueflites.

This post relates to leaks that could come from the throttle pressure (aka "Kick Down") shaft seal for the 1954-61 Powerflite or the 1956-61 cast-iron Torqueflites. Nothing to do with the 1960 "904" Torqueflite.

For the most part, the throttle pressure shaft (and lever arm) hide the location of the shaft seal (at the base of the throttle shaft). You can see it better in a Powerflite but it is mostly hidden in a Torqueflite.

Early Powerflite:



Early Torqueflite (the throttle pressure shaft emerges from the top of the cast aluminum shifter housing):



And even here, with the shifter housing removed, you still really can't see the shaft seal:




In the beginning, there was just the 2 spd Powerflite (in 1954). The Powerflites in 1955 and 1956 used the same throttle pressure lever seal, PN 1408 353 as the original 1954 Powerflites. On my 1956 Powerflite, the seal was marked 50018 and Pat. Pend. I measured a shaft diameter of about 0.62" and an overall seal diameter of about 1.29" (give or take).





There are still 1408 353s out there (see below). But there are also National 50018, SKF 6925, National 471264 and probably others.

I do NOT know what the changes were in the PowerFlite Throttle Shaft design in 1957 but it must have significant because the seal became just rubber with PN 1672 358 and
described as "Sleeve Seal, 31/64" I.D., Rubber". I was unable to find an example of this seal. But I did determine that it soldiered on until the last Powerflite in 1961.

*IF ANYONE HAS AN EXAMPLE OF THIS 1672 358 SEAL, I WOULD LOVE TO ADD IT TO THIS THREAD*

Enter the A-466 Torqueflite in late 1956 and then from 1957 to 1958 in one configuration and then from 1959 to 1961 in another configuration. In all those applications
the Torqueflite throttle shaft seal was PN 1732 183.

I really looked for a 1732 183 but I could NOT find anything. Eventually I stumbled upon this statement:

"The TorqueFlite transmission throttle pressure shaft (kickdown) seal, O.E.M. 1732183, 2205300 and 2466548 maps to NAPA 1-3308"

Finally a lead. No details but at least something. So I ordered, bought and measured a NAPA 13308 seal. Tiny rubber thing. (See below)

REFERENCE: https://1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/techstuff.html

As I pushed further, I found a couple of photos of a 59-61 style Torqueflite cast iron case with what appears to be the 1732 183 rubber seal. (See below).

*THEN* I realized that I actually had my old 57 Torqueflite shifter plate loose downstairs so I walked the NAPA 13308 seal down and slipped it on the shifter shaft. Tight fit but a fit. The shifter shaft measures basically 5/16" (0.3125 in). (See below)

So, if you have any info, like anything about the 1672 358 seal, please reply to this post and add your info (and hopefully a photo of the seal).



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-01-15 12:07 PM




(1955-58MoparPowerFliteThrottleLeverShaftSealEarly1408353andLate1672358.jpg)



(OEShaftSeal_1408353_1.jpg)



(OEShaftSeal_1408353_2.jpg)



(OEShaftSeal_1408353_3.jpg)



(National50018Seal.jpg)



(SKF6925EquivalentToEarlyPowerFlite1408353Seal.jpg)



(National471264PossiblePowerfliteShaftSeal.jpg)



(1961MoparPowerFliteThrottleShaftSealPN_1672358.jpg)



(56-58TorquefliteThrottleShaftSealPN1732183.jpg)



(1961MoparTorquefliteThrottleLeverShaftSeal_PN1732183.jpg)



(Potential1732183.jpg)



(MoparThrottleValveLeverShaftSeal_2466548.jpg)



(OutsideDiameterOfNapa13308ThrottleShaftSeal.jpg)



(InsideDiameterOfNapa13308ThrottleShaftSeal.jpg)



(1959-61TorquefliteCaseWithLikely1732183Seal_1.jpg)



(1959-61TorquefliteCaseWithLikely1732183Seal_2.jpg)



(Napa13308SealOn5_16_TorquefliteShifterLeverShaft.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 1955-58MoparPowerFliteThrottleLeverShaftSealEarly1408353andLate1672358.jpg (179KB - 165 downloads)
Attachments OEShaftSeal_1408353_1.jpg (76KB - 165 downloads)
Attachments OEShaftSeal_1408353_2.jpg (30KB - 161 downloads)
Attachments OEShaftSeal_1408353_3.jpg (42KB - 164 downloads)
Attachments National50018Seal.jpg (101KB - 172 downloads)
Attachments SKF6925EquivalentToEarlyPowerFlite1408353Seal.jpg (77KB - 171 downloads)
Attachments National471264PossiblePowerfliteShaftSeal.jpg (101KB - 175 downloads)
Attachments 1961MoparPowerFliteThrottleShaftSealPN_1672358.jpg (175KB - 166 downloads)
Attachments 56-58TorquefliteThrottleShaftSealPN1732183.jpg (171KB - 156 downloads)
Attachments 1961MoparTorquefliteThrottleLeverShaftSeal_PN1732183.jpg (215KB - 168 downloads)
Attachments Potential1732183.jpg (23KB - 157 downloads)
Attachments MoparThrottleValveLeverShaftSeal_2466548.jpg (64KB - 161 downloads)
Attachments OutsideDiameterOfNapa13308ThrottleShaftSeal.jpg (207KB - 160 downloads)
Attachments InsideDiameterOfNapa13308ThrottleShaftSeal.jpg (150KB - 171 downloads)
Attachments 1959-61TorquefliteCaseWithLikely1732183Seal_1.jpg (131KB - 163 downloads)
Attachments 1959-61TorquefliteCaseWithLikely1732183Seal_2.jpg (188KB - 164 downloads)
Attachments Napa13308SealOn5_16_TorquefliteShifterLeverShaft.jpg (103KB - 164 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-05-23 2:27 AM (#629777 - in reply to #618433)
Subject: RE: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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A forum member contacted me today regarding removal and replacement of a Powerflite Throttle Pressure shaft seal. Specifically they wanted to know whether the Re and Re would require the transmission to be out of the car. I replied that I didn't think so but I would try removing the seal on the Powerflite that I removed from the car prior to the Torqueflite swap and get back to him.

So this afternoon, after lunch, I gave it a go with the tools that I had. Bottomline: I need more tools.

The first thing that I tried was "pick". I had confidence in using one but it turned out that the seal was not going to give it all up for a mere "pick".

Second attempt involve using an awl with a hardened tip to punch a couple of holes in the top of the seal and then install a couple of metal screws and pry up on the seal using the transmission case as a prying point.

That failed miserably when the screws ripped out of the top of the seal.

The next steps involved hammering a screw driver into the top of the seal and prying.

No go.

More hammering. More prying. The seal would spin around the shaft but it would not even try to come out. Eventually bits of steel from the seal were ripping off.

I knew that what I was trying wasn't working so when I called my NOS parts guy on another issue, I quizzed him on how he removed those small seals back in the day. He said that they had a factory seal puller that they used. I did a google and found one that might be the correct idea. However, since I didn't actually have such a tool, I kept hammering and prying (with a small screw driver) with only destruction as the reward.

Finally, I remembered that I had a big Lisle-type seal puller for larger seals like axle seals. I found it and tried it on the throttle shaft seal. It eventually "worked" by starting to lift the now very mangaled seal up and out of the seal cavity. VERY UGLY.

I think the only way to do this, would be with a proper seal removal tool. Something like the one in the last photo.

Live and Learn. To soon old, too late smart.

Edited by 56D500boy 2023-05-23 10:39 AM




(PowerFliteThrottleShaftSeal_BeforeRemovalAttempt.jpg)



(PowerFliteThrottleShaftSeal_AfterAttemptWithSealPick.jpg)



(PowerFliteThrottleShaftSeal_AfterAttemptWithPryingMetalScrewsIntoTheSeal.jpg)



(PowerFliteThrottleShaftSeal_AfterHorrendousUglyRemoval.jpg)



(PowerFliteThrottleShaftSeal_AfterHorrendousUglyRemoval_RemenantsOfTheSeal.jpg)



(CommercialSmallSealRemovalTool.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments PowerFliteThrottleShaftSeal_BeforeRemovalAttempt.jpg (149KB - 74 downloads)
Attachments PowerFliteThrottleShaftSeal_AfterAttemptWithSealPick.jpg (146KB - 67 downloads)
Attachments PowerFliteThrottleShaftSeal_AfterAttemptWithPryingMetalScrewsIntoTheSeal.jpg (148KB - 63 downloads)
Attachments PowerFliteThrottleShaftSeal_AfterHorrendousUglyRemoval.jpg (149KB - 68 downloads)
Attachments PowerFliteThrottleShaftSeal_AfterHorrendousUglyRemoval_RemenantsOfTheSeal.jpg (148KB - 61 downloads)
Attachments CommercialSmallSealRemovalTool.jpg (43KB - 69 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2023-05-23 1:26 PM (#629793 - in reply to #618433)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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Darn it, another tool I need to go purchase.
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local2Ed
Posted 2023-05-23 5:09 PM (#629796 - in reply to #629793)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal


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You don't want that one.
Look for a shift shaft seal removal tool.
I used one on a 400THM GM trans in a 1985 corvette couple years ago and was surprised it worked in such tight quarters.
There is Chrysler,Mopar seal removers for sale but you have to be careful to find the correct size for the seal.
When I replaced the seal in a 1967 Chrysler Newport I thought I would get lucky and use the GM one I had but it was A bit to large to get a bite on the inside of the seal.
I just dropped the pan and the valve body with the selector shaft and used a nut and bolt with fender washers to install the new seal.
I know these 60's TorqueFlite transmissions are a little different than the 50's and the 50's seal is smaller than the mid 60's seal.

The only way I see the above tool working is turning the jaws 180 degrees and forcing the the jaws between the shaft and the seal.
Plus I don't think it would work in car like the seal removers I mentioned.
It just might be hard to find the correct size.
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local2Ed
Posted 2023-05-23 5:14 PM (#629797 - in reply to #618433)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal


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https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/tf-727-how-to-shi...
Not the same transmission but the principle is the same.
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-05-23 7:18 PM (#629799 - in reply to #629797)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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local2Ed - 2023-05-23 2:14 PM
https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/tf-727-how-to-shi...
Not the same transmission but the principle is the same.


Oh man. Was it *THAT* simple? I wasted hours hacking mine out for the lack of this Balkamp 776-9250 tool or a Performance Tool W84026 Shift Shaft Seal Tool Remover Installer :




Edited by 56D500boy 2023-05-23 7:27 PM




(NapaSealRemoverInstallKit.jpg)



(PerformanceToolSealRemover.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments NapaSealRemoverInstallKit.jpg (149KB - 62 downloads)
Attachments PerformanceToolSealRemover.jpg (149KB - 60 downloads)
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local2Ed
Posted 2023-05-23 8:18 PM (#629800 - in reply to #629799)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal


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As I said above, the mid 60's transmissions, like the one in the 1967 Chrysler I did have a larger seal I.D than the 1957 Dodge I did.
It would be best to verify I.D. of seal you want to replace to the I.D. of seal for the transmissions that the tool says it will work on.

Now I could be wrong on seal sizes between transmissions so I am just cautioning against buying a Mopar tool without verify seal I.D.
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-05-24 4:51 PM (#629807 - in reply to #629799)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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I looked locally for the seal remover/installers that I posted above but no luck.

Then I found the SST-1001-PV - Shift Lever Seal Remover / Installer Transmission Tool - Compatible with GM 180 200 200-4R 250 350 325 375 400 425 475 4L60 / Replacement Tool for Atec T-1001-PV, Kent-Moore J-26282

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011SBJB04/ref=sspa_dk_detail_1?psc=1&pd_r...

Tried that on with one of my tool suppliers and still "Nope".

So I googled on "Shift Lever Seal Remover / Installer Transmission Tool - Compatible with GM 180 200 200-4R 250 350 325 375 400 425 475 4L60" and I think I found a clone of the SST-1001-PV one ebay. There were several choices, I picked the least costly one which also had free shipping. We'll see in a few days (next week some time)

This:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/313811189463







(BonBoGMTransShifterSealRemovalTool.jpg)



(BonBoGMTransShifterSealRemovalTool_2.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments BonBoGMTransShifterSealRemovalTool.jpg (144KB - 70 downloads)
Attachments BonBoGMTransShifterSealRemovalTool_2.jpg (133KB - 65 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-05-24 5:45 PM (#629809 - in reply to #629807)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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Just ordered (delivery tomorrow) an SKF 6916. It has the same size specs as the 6925, i.e. 1.254" OD, 0.625" ID and 0.25" thick. About CDN$8 in my hand. I will check the compatibility with the GM seal removal tool when it comes in next week.

SKF 6916 Double Lip Oil Seal - Solid, 0.625 in Shaft, 1.250 in OD, 0.250 in Width, CRWA1 Design, Nitrile Rubber (NBR) Lip Material

https://www.motioncanada.ca/products/sku/01294756?fromSisterSite=tru...


Edited by 56D500boy 2023-05-24 5:49 PM




(SKF6916WithSameSpecsAsTheSKF6925.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments SKF6916WithSameSpecsAsTheSKF6925.jpg (141KB - 60 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-05-26 7:31 PM (#629840 - in reply to #629809)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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56D500boy - 2023-05-24 2:45 PM
Just ordered (delivery tomorrow) an SKF 6916. It has the same size specs as the 6925, i.e. 1.254" OD, 0.625" ID and 0.25" thick. About CDN$8 in my hand. I will check the compatibility with the GM seal removal tool when it comes in next week.

SKF 6916 Double Lip Oil Seal - Solid, 0.625 in Shaft, 1.250 in OD, 0.250 in Width, CRWA1 Design, Nitrile Rubber (NBR) Lip Material


Missed picking up the SKF 6916 yesterday. Got it this AM. Just tried it in/on my "spare" Powerflite. Seems to fit like a glove. I didn't press it in (yet). I am waiting for the eBay seller of the GM transmission seal removal tool to actually ship (supposedly they had 10 the other day but I've heard nothing about shipping yet).





(SKF6916LooseInstalledOnA56PowerFliteAtThrottlePressureShaft.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments SKF6916LooseInstalledOnA56PowerFliteAtThrottlePressureShaft.jpg (148KB - 66 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-03 9:36 PM (#629967 - in reply to #629840)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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Picked up my eBay Bonbo GM throttle shaft seal remover/installer yesterday , hoping that it will work on a Powerflite.

Just tried it with the SKF 6916.

FAIL

It goes into the center part of the seal beautifully.

However, its inside diameter (about 0.475 in) is too small to fit over the PowerFlite shaft (about 0.675). BUMMER.

And I just CAN NOT find a Performance Tool W84026 CHRYSLER Transmission Seal Remover Installer. Lots of listings but they are all sold out.

At this point, I can not figure out how a W84026 would even work. Yes it will likely go over the PowerFlite shaft but if it does so, how can it dig into the center of the seal?

I need a W84026 in my hand.

The Bonbo:



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-06-03 11:03 PM




(BonBoGMTransShifterSealRemovalTool_4.jpg)



(BonBoGMTransShifterSealRemovalTool_3.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments BonBoGMTransShifterSealRemovalTool_4.jpg (144KB - 76 downloads)
Attachments BonBoGMTransShifterSealRemovalTool_3.jpg (147KB - 75 downloads)
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local2Ed
Posted 2023-06-04 7:52 AM (#629978 - in reply to #629967)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal


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It does not get a bite on the rubber part of the seal but on the ID of the steel part of the seal.
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-04 10:57 AM (#629980 - in reply to #629978)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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local2Ed - 2023-06-04 4:52 AM
It does not get a bite on the rubber part of the seal but on the ID of the steel part of the seal.


That makes sense now that you mention it. Grabbing just the rubber part would just rip the rubber part of the seal out of the metal part (DUH).

That said, Napa Canada knows nothing about the BK 776-9250 tool and NAPA USA will not ship one to Point Roberts, WA , my mail drop.

I've contacted my local version of O'reillys called LORDCO and they don't have a Performance Tool W84026 Shift Shaft Seal Tool Remover Installer in their system.

I've contacted Wilmar Corp. the owners of Performance Tool about the W84026 Shift Shaft Seal Tool Remover Installer but they are closed until Monday.

Kind of caught between a rock and a hard place.

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56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-05 7:38 PM (#630012 - in reply to #629980)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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Just heard back from Wilmar:

"Hello David, Thank you for your email. I’m sorry, we no longer carry W84026, Chrysler trans. seal tool.
We do not have any suggested replacements.
Thank you,
Sherri McCulloch
Wilmar LLC
20413 59th PL S
Suite 160
Kent, WA 98032
800.426.1262 / 425.970.6970
www.wilmarllc.com"

I replied:

"Well that is super disappointing. I was going to buy one and then recommend it to my 55-61 Mopar buddies on the Forward Look website, as used in the early 2 spd Mopar Powerflite Transmissions to remove and install seals like the SKF 6916.
I recently took the original one out without the benefit of a W84026 and the result was awful. I wanted the W84026 to install the new seal and then have it on hand to remove it in the future."


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JedRhule
Posted 2023-06-05 9:13 PM (#630014 - in reply to #618433)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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I called the local NAPA store and they said there was zero stock on the BK776-9250 in the US. I thought if I could get one I could ship it to you. :-(
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-06 5:26 PM (#630035 - in reply to #630014)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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JedRhule - 2023-06-05 6:13 PM
I called the local NAPA store and they said there was zero stock on the BK776-9250 in the US. I thought if I could get one I could ship it to you. :-(


NAPA's computer system might be FUBAR. I just found one in a NAPA about an hour from me who has a sister store about 1/2 hr away. I phoned the sister store and they are going to bring it in from the hour away store and then phone me (probably next week).

I won't hold my breath in the meantime.



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-06-06 5:43 PM
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dels56
Posted 2023-06-06 6:16 PM (#630037 - in reply to #618433)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal


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Idea...If you cannot find the exact tool, try to make one. I'm thinking, Use a 1/2" Sch 40 pipe nipple. the I.D. is 0.622". Run a 5/8" drill through to open it up to fit over the shaft and see if the thread has enough taper to start into the metal of the seal. Maybe grind a bit more of a taper on the threads. Cut the nipple to a length to suit and tack weld a nut on top to do the pulling. I'm not in my shop until Friday or I would build one. To install the new seal a wooden dowel, 2x2 or ??? with a 5/8" hole drilled in will work just fine. I have made many a special tool.

Del S
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-06 7:33 PM (#630038 - in reply to #630037)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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Sounds like a great idea Del. I went out to the garage to see what I had for black pipe nipples but what I had was either too small or too big. I will pick up a 1/2" nipple tomorrow at Andrew Sheret (well known HVAC store in my area) when I am out picking up another SKF 6916 to play with (destroy, as needed, trying different options).

Installation could be a suitably large socket (something like a 5/8" or 3/4" Deep Impact socket looks like it would work) (see below)

The "joke" of this is I personally don't need any of this (the seal, the removal tool or the installation tool). I just wanted to add a solution to my thread.



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-06-06 8:54 PM




(DeepSocketOverPowerFliteThrottleShaftOntoSKF6916Seal_FiveEights.jpg)



(DeepSocketOverPowerFliteThrottleShaftOntoSKF6916Seal_ThreeQuarters.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments DeepSocketOverPowerFliteThrottleShaftOntoSKF6916Seal_FiveEights.jpg (148KB - 64 downloads)
Attachments DeepSocketOverPowerFliteThrottleShaftOntoSKF6916Seal_ThreeQuarters.jpg (149KB - 71 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-09 10:07 AM (#630096 - in reply to #630038)
Subject: Dealing with the 1955 Manually Shifted Powerflites



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Jonathan H. ( jhermis1861 here) has Powerflite throttle pressure shaft seal issues and I told him that I would try to help. He was able to obtain the elusive NAPA seal tool and told me that he would send me photos when he got it.

He sent photos last night with the comment that the NAPA tool will go over the throttle pressure shaft but not the larger shift shaft. He also mentioned that his Powereflite had two shift rods coming to the throttle pressure shaft.

It was late (just before midnight) and I was a bit confused for a minute or two. *THEN* the light went on: His car is a 1955 Plymouth. The Plymouth part doesn't really factor but the 1955 definitely does.

All the 1955 Mopars with Powerflites (Torqueflites didn't happen until early 1956 (late in the 1956 Model year)) were shifted by a dash mounted lever that is connected to the Powerfilte transmission via bell cranks and rods. This is why Jonathan has that second and, in this case, lower shift rod attached to the thicker part of throttle pressure shaft (actually the larger shaft is the shifter shaft, the smaller inner shaft is the throttle pressure shaft).

I emailed Jonathan with this

"Found this in the Powerflite section of the 1955-58 Mopar Parts book for the "TRANSMISSION VALVE BODY AND VALVES,
21-139-4 BODY, w/Transfer PLATE (and the shaft that you see)

1559 328 = 1955 All makes, but Note 1 (below)
1559 436 = 1955 All makes, but Note 2 (below)
1638 688 = 1956 All makes
1731 833 = 1957-58 Plymouth, Dodge and Desotos with Powerflite (I guess all Chryslers and Imperials had Torqueflites)

Where:
NOTE 1: Used UP TO date G-30-54 stenciled on lower right front corner of the Trans. Case.
NOTE 2; Used AFTER date G-30-54 stenciled on lower right front corner of the Trans. Case, on 1955 Models only"

Right after I sent that email, I figured out the issue and sent him the diagram below with a promise that I would find the seal PN for his transmission.

I found it this AM. As far as I can tell, it is the same as the other early Powerflites, i.e. 1408 353.

The good news is the 1408 353 translates to the SKF 6925 and 6916, and others.

The bad news is the NAPA tool (and maybe the Performance Tool W84026) don't seem to work on the manually-shifted Powerflites.
I have a NAPA tool on order and when I get it, I will find out whether it works on cable-shifted PowerFlites.

In the meantime, based on Dels56's suggestion, I purchased a 1/2" NPT pipe nipple and have been trying to modify it to work as a seal remover (I've ground the tip down on a bench grinder). It still needs to be reamed out with a 5/8" drill.

Stay tuned.

In the meantime, this is what I found out about the manually-shifted Powerflites.




Edited by 56D500boy 2023-06-09 10:12 AM




(1955PowerFliteShifterMechanism.jpg)



(55PlymouthPowerFliteControlShafts.jpg)



(55-58PowerflitePNsWithTheThrottleShaftSealPN1408353.jpg)



(55PlymouthPowerFliteControlShaftsShowingManualShiftRodBottomAndThrottlePressureRodTop.jpg)



(NAPASealToolNotWorkingOn55PlymouthManualShiftShaftSeal.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1955PowerFliteShifterMechanism.jpg (147KB - 69 downloads)
Attachments 55PlymouthPowerFliteControlShafts.jpg (148KB - 66 downloads)
Attachments 55-58PowerflitePNsWithTheThrottleShaftSealPN1408353.jpg (149KB - 64 downloads)
Attachments 55PlymouthPowerFliteControlShaftsShowingManualShiftRodBottomAndThrottlePressureRodTop.jpg (149KB - 71 downloads)
Attachments NAPASealToolNotWorkingOn55PlymouthManualShiftShaftSeal.jpg (148KB - 74 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-17 6:47 PM (#630273 - in reply to #630096)
Subject: RE: Dealing with the 1955 Manually Shifted Powerflites



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Previously I said:

"The bad news is the NAPA tool (and maybe the Performance Tool W84026) don't seem to work on the manually-shifted Powerflites.
I have a NAPA tool on order and when I get it, I will find out whether it works on cable-shifted PowerFlites."

The NAPA Balkamp 776-9250 came into Lynden WA (what a beautiful American town) the other day. I made the trip down (30 mi one way and one border crossing (20 min line-up going down and 5 min coming back). Stopping into the Lynden NAPA store and got what I ordered.

Well, sort of. The 776-9250 is now branded as EverCast (still made in China and probably a version of Balkamp). The new info/bad news is that it says right on the package "GM". My heart sank but I bought it anyway ($10 and taxes). Maybe it will fit?

NOPE.

As Jonathan found on his manually shifted 55 Powerflite, it will NOT fit over the throttle pressure shaft.

Incidently, I searched both Napa USA and Napa Canada websites for this tool and there are none in their systems. Nevermind.

Now to find a Performance Tool W84026 in case it does actually work.

Still working on Plan B (Dels 56's) modified 1/2" NPT black pipe nipple. It might have to become "Plan A"






(NAPAEverCraftBalkamp7769250SealRemoval_Installer_inPackage.jpg)



(NAPAEverCraftBalkamp7769250SealRemoval_Installer_On56PowerfliteThrottlePressureShaft_NoGo.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments NAPAEverCraftBalkamp7769250SealRemoval_Installer_inPackage.jpg (147KB - 69 downloads)
Attachments NAPAEverCraftBalkamp7769250SealRemoval_Installer_On56PowerfliteThrottlePressureShaft_NoGo.jpg (149KB - 63 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-17 8:50 PM (#630274 - in reply to #630273)
Subject: Plan B: Attempting to Grind a 0.5" NPT Pipe Nipple to function as a seal remover



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This idea came from Del S. (Dels56) and I think that it will work eventually. I am getting close to grinding the tip of a 0.5" NPT pipe nipple to fit into the center of the metal shell of an SKF 6916 seal.

For this attempt, I removed the rubber part of the seal (with the tensioning spring) and, in doing so, I gained a better understanding and respect for this type of seal. The rubber is very bonded to the metal shell and is not easy to remove. The tensioning spring fits nicely into a rounded groove in the rubber and therefore should remain in place during the service life of the seal.

I think I need a bit more grinding on the nipple but, as predicted, I am running out of threads to catch the metal of the shell. Might have to carve deeper thread valleys at the very tip with a very thin Dremel blade.

(??)





(PlanBHalfInchNPTNippleWithGroundTipAndGuttedSKF6916Seal_SealComponents.jpg)



(PlanBHalfInchNPTNippleWithGroundTipAndGuttedSKF6916Seal_TipOfNippleGroundAlmostToNothing.jpg)



(PlanBHalfInchNPTNippleWithGroundTipAndGuttedSKF6916Seal_TestFitIntoMetalSealShell.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments PlanBHalfInchNPTNippleWithGroundTipAndGuttedSKF6916Seal_SealComponents.jpg (146KB - 58 downloads)
Attachments PlanBHalfInchNPTNippleWithGroundTipAndGuttedSKF6916Seal_TipOfNippleGroundAlmostToNothing.jpg (142KB - 66 downloads)
Attachments PlanBHalfInchNPTNippleWithGroundTipAndGuttedSKF6916Seal_TestFitIntoMetalSealShell.jpg (147KB - 61 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2023-06-17 9:16 PM (#630275 - in reply to #618433)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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Would it work better to hog out the inside of a 3/8" pipe? Your persistence in getting this done is inspiring.
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-18 2:28 PM (#630291 - in reply to #630275)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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Powerflite - 2023-06-17 6:16 PM
Would it work better to hog out the inside of a 3/8" pipe? Your persistence in getting this done is inspiring.


That is funny. I find your body work/welding inspiring. That requires skills that I don't have. Persistence is just me being unable to accept defeat until I am finally beaten to a pulp. UNCLE!!

Yesterday, in discussing the NPT pipe modification off-line with Del S. (Dels56) in reply to Del's email regarding him scoring a very nice 56 Chrsyler Torqueflite shifter, complete with the required 5 shifter buttons, I said:

" I am in a bit of a bad mood because of the time and money wasted chasing the NAPA seal tool that now says "GM". The older NAPA 776-9250 packaging didn't say that but this newer EverCraft 776-9250 does. I could have refused to buy it but they had brought it in especially for me and I was already 48 km, gas money and 20 min border crossing wait into it at that point to come home empty handed.
"Pig headed" is a phrase that comes to mind"

Back to your 3/8" NPT pipe idea, I had initially considered it when Del S. first suggested using a 1/2" NPT nipple because I only had a small 3/8" nipple on hand. I thought it was going to be too small. Today I revisted that idea with the aid of a digital vernier caliper. The answer is the same. Too small. If you could hog out the 3/8" nipple (which has an approximate 0.5" I.D.) the wall thickness would be too thin to take the pressure needed to pull the seal (by turning the threaded bolt).

Remember: "SKF 6916 Double Lip Oil Seal - Solid, 0.625 in Shaft, 1.250 in OD, 0.250 in Width"

I ground the 1/2" NPT a bit more this AM. Getting closer (but losing the threads even more now).

Here are some photos comparing the BonBo, the EverCraft NAPA, a 3/8" NPT nipple and a 1/2" NPT nipple with the shell of a SKF 2916 seal:



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-06-18 2:32 PM




(Bonbo_NAPA_3-8thsNPTand1-2iNPT_OptionsWithSKF2916Shell_1.jpg)



(Bonbo_NAPA_3-8thsNPTand1-2iNPT_OptionsWithSKF2916Shell_2.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Bonbo_NAPA_3-8thsNPTand1-2iNPT_OptionsWithSKF2916Shell_1.jpg (146KB - 66 downloads)
Attachments Bonbo_NAPA_3-8thsNPTand1-2iNPT_OptionsWithSKF2916Shell_2.jpg (149KB - 66 downloads)
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local2Ed
Posted 2023-06-18 7:51 PM (#630295 - in reply to #630291)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal


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How much would you have to drill out the tool on the left to fit the shaft

How about 1/2' iron pipe to 1/2" or 3/8" gas flare fitting for the threaded part?




Edited by local2Ed 2023-06-18 8:12 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-18 11:41 PM (#630300 - in reply to #630295)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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local2Ed - 2023-06-18 4:51 PM
How much would you have to drill out the tool on the left to fit the shaft


The one on the left is the Bonbo brand tool. The ID is basically 0.50". Given that the throttle shaft on the Powerflite is about 0.625" that is a lot of hogging out.

But it should be investigated further.

(At this point, I own a 1/2" drill bit but nothing larger, i.e. in 1/64" steps to 0.625".)

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noah300g
Posted 2024-01-12 6:54 PM (#633375 - in reply to #618433)
Subject: RE: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal


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Posts: 1

I'm located in the central TX area between Waco and Austin, near the towns of Temple and Belton. Does anyone know of a transmission shop in this area who would be familiar with older cast iron TF like the one in my 61 Chrysler? It's not that complicated (in theory) to remove the neutral safety switch, remove the shift cable, take off the round adjustment wheel, put on heat shrink tubing over my leaking cable sheath, while at the same time change the kickdown shaft seal and the o-ring on the end of the shift cable assembly, and then put it back together again. Probably could be done in an hour or so. If I had a lift, and/or wasn't 69 years old with bad eyesight and hands, I'd be willing to tackle this myself, but don't want to screw it up. Car only leaks after being parked for a few days (to allow torque converter to drain back into body of transmission). If I drive it regularly, it doesn't leak as the converter doesn't drain back down into the pan that quickly, but when I park it for a week (and certainly for the winter), I need to put a pan underneath. I'm sure this would fix the problem once and for all, but it's hard to find a shop willing to do such things when they have multi-thousand dollar jobs lined up for newer vehicles.
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tmd171
Posted 2024-03-20 8:09 PM (#634313 - in reply to #618433)
Subject: RE: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal


Member

Posts: 15

Did you guys figure out how to make a tool to remove the the throttle position shaft seal (powerflite)?
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tmd171
Posted 2024-03-20 8:17 PM (#634314 - in reply to #618433)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal


Member

Posts: 15

While we’re at it, I’m looking for similar info for replacing the gear shaft seal in my 56b CRL, power steering. Is there a seal removal tool currently available? Is there a quality seal available? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Tom
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tmd171
Posted 2024-03-20 8:18 PM (#634315 - in reply to #618433)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal


Member

Posts: 15

While we’re at it, I’m looking for similar info for replacing the gear shaft seal in my 56b CRL, power steering. Is there a seal removal tool currently available? Is there a quality seal available? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Tom
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56D500boy
Posted 2024-03-20 9:32 PM (#634321 - in reply to #634313)
Subject: RE: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks -Throttle Pressure Shaft Seal



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tmd171 - 2024-03-20 5:09 PM
Did you guys figure out how to make a tool to remove the the throttle position shaft seal (powerflite)?


Nope.

Brute force and ugliness seemed to be the answer.

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