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Sticky Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks - ATF fluid pan
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-01-18 2:49 PM (#618588)
Subject: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks - ATF fluid pan



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9894
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Location: Lower Mainland BC
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There are two or three ways that a Powerflite or cast-iron Torqueflite could have a leak at the pan.

1. The filler tube connection to the pan
2. The pan gasket
3. The drain plug at the front of the pan (Powerflite only)

1. Leaks at the filler tube

The ATF fluid filler tube is located on the right side of the ATF pan. While Powerflite and cast-iron Torqueflite filler tubes might be slightly different in diameter and length over the years 1955-61, their basic design is the same:

The lower end of the tube has a double-flared male end that mates with a female receiver boss on the side of the pan. The tube is held to the pan via a sliding external threaded nut which fits into the threaded part of the female receiver boss. There wasn't an O-ring (at least I can't find reference to one until you get to the aluminum 904 and 727 Torqueflites). If the female receiver is dirty or the male end of the tube has a nick in the metal or if the external nut is not tight enough, there can be a leak (most likely an annoying seep).

The solution would be toL

i) drain the fluid (using the Powerflite drain plug at the front of the Powerflite pan) (otherwise, cracking the connection by loosening the nut and letting fluid drain out into a pan). ii) loosening the bracket holding the filler tube to the transmission bell housing and removing the tube from the transmission
iii) cleaning the female receiver boss of any and all debris
iv) inspecting the male end of the filler tube for nicks and then gently filling the problem area (and surrounding area to create a smooth mating surface)
v) considering using a sparing amount of RTV silicone sealant at the male-female interface
vi) reassembling, including "giggling" (a technical term) the tube into the female receiver to assure a good fit.
vii) tightening the filler tube nut sufficiently and re-attaching the filler tube to the bell housing.
viii) refilling the ATF pan with enough fluid to equal that drained out.
ix) starting the engine with the trans in neutral and checking for leaks
x) repeat as necessary until the leak is gone

Female receiver boss that needs cleaning to remove debris that would prevent good sealing:



Double-flared male end of the filler tube:



Filler tube properly attached to an ATF pan (in this case a 57 Windsor A-466) (also shows the bracket at the bell-housing):




2. Pan gasket

This is probably the most obvious point of potential pan leakage. The first thing to check would be whether all the bolts that hold the pressed steel pan to the cast iron transmission case are tight (and have lock washers). If they are all tight and you still have a leak at the pan-case interface, then you probably have an issue with the pan gasket. The Powerflite and Torqueflite pans and gaskets are different. The PN for the Powerflite gasket is 1408 282 and the PN for the Torqueflite gasket is 1636 448. These numbers stayed the same from 1954 to 1961 for the Powerflite and from 1955 to 1961 for the Torqueflite. As such they are fairly commonly available from NOS parts people and/or transmission shops that deal with these old transmissions, e.g. Fatsco. They are not expense.

If you are stuck, you can easily make a transmission pan gasket using bulk gasket material, e.g. from Felpro. BTDT, takes about 30 mins if you are slow and methodical (me).

Installation of the pan gasket, in theory, probably doesn't need any sealant. However, in these times, with the availability of RTV silicone sealants, I would probably use a bit of Permatex Ultra Blue to hold the gasket in the pan and also a small bead on the cast iron mating surface (but use sparingly, you don't want blobs falling into the pan and gumming up the works).



3. The Pan Drain Plug (Powerflite mostly)

All Powerflites (from 1954 to 1961) have a drain plug at the front of the pan. The only (as far as I can tell) A-466 Torqueflite that got the drain plug was the 1956 Imperials (and maybe the Chrysler 300s) with the first Torqueflites. In all cases (PF and 56 TFs), the PN for the drain plug gasket is 863 987 (so wherever else it has been used, it was used before the Powerflites started in 1954). I could not find an image of the 863 987 but I suspect that it is a copper crush washer, similar to (or maybe the same as older engine oil drain plug crush washers).

Obviously the first thing to stop the leak at the drain plug would be to check for tightness. If it is tight, then the gasket if probably FUBAR'd and needs replacement.

jboymechanic's 56 Imperial TF drain (who knew?)



IF ANYONE knows the size, material of this gasket, please post it up here




Edited by 56D500boy 2022-01-18 5:26 PM




(55-58PowerFlitePanGasketPN1408282.jpg)



(1961PowerFlitePanGasketPN1408282.jpg)



(PowerFlitePanGasket.jpg)



(56-58TorqueFlitePanGasketPN1636448.jpg)



(1961TorqueFlitePanGasketPN1636448.jpg)



(CastIronTorqueflitePanGasket.jpg)



(56PowerFliteShowingDrainPlugAtFrontOfPan.jpg)



(PowerFlitePanGasketNo24DrainPlugNo43AndGasketNo42FillerTubeNo44.jpg)



(56PowerFliteShowingFillTubeOnRightSideOfPanAndDrainPlugAtFrontOfPan.jpg)



(56-58TorquefliteShowingPanDrainPlugAndGasket.jpg)



(55-57PowerFliteDrainPlugGasketPN863987.jpg)



(1961PowerFlitePanGasketPN1408282AndDrainPlugGasket863987.jpg)



(56ImperialTorqueFlitePanDrainPlugGasket_863987.jpg)



(PotentialPowerfliteDrainPlugCrushWasher.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 55-58PowerFlitePanGasketPN1408282.jpg (126KB - 151 downloads)
Attachments 1961PowerFlitePanGasketPN1408282.jpg (79KB - 153 downloads)
Attachments PowerFlitePanGasket.jpg (87KB - 148 downloads)
Attachments 56-58TorqueFlitePanGasketPN1636448.jpg (170KB - 143 downloads)
Attachments 1961TorqueFlitePanGasketPN1636448.jpg (82KB - 150 downloads)
Attachments CastIronTorqueflitePanGasket.jpg (90KB - 151 downloads)
Attachments 56PowerFliteShowingDrainPlugAtFrontOfPan.jpg (153KB - 158 downloads)
Attachments PowerFlitePanGasketNo24DrainPlugNo43AndGasketNo42FillerTubeNo44.jpg (111KB - 154 downloads)
Attachments 56PowerFliteShowingFillTubeOnRightSideOfPanAndDrainPlugAtFrontOfPan.jpg (101KB - 162 downloads)
Attachments 56-58TorquefliteShowingPanDrainPlugAndGasket.jpg (147KB - 157 downloads)
Attachments 55-57PowerFliteDrainPlugGasketPN863987.jpg (184KB - 146 downloads)
Attachments 1961PowerFlitePanGasketPN1408282AndDrainPlugGasket863987.jpg (78KB - 153 downloads)
Attachments 56ImperialTorqueFlitePanDrainPlugGasket_863987.jpg (187KB - 152 downloads)
Attachments PotentialPowerfliteDrainPlugCrushWasher.jpg (19KB - 158 downloads)
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dels56
Posted 2022-01-18 4:35 PM (#618596 - in reply to #618588)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks - ATF fluid pan


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 345
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Just a quick chirp. 50 + years ago when I worked on the bench I I overhauled 500+ transmissions. The cork gaskets were as fragile then as they are now. We used gasket maker, whatever the heck it was at that time, on both side of the gasket, and DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THE PAN BOLT. Make sure that you flatten the pan around the bolt holes. If I remember correctly, the 5/16 pan bolt had a lock washer only. We added a flat washer to help keep the bolt from dishing the pan in around the hole. Good luck.

Del S
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local2Ed
Posted 2022-01-23 9:37 AM (#618706 - in reply to #618588)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks - ATF fluid pan


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 580
500252525
You can get either pan gasket from AutoZone or other local auto parts stores.
Run a straight edge on the mounting flange to make sure the bolt holes are not protruding above the mounting flange.
I like to bring the torque up in at least 2 stages and go around the pan cross-wise.

I also put 4 studs to align the pan and gasket while I install the rest of the bolts finger tight.
Never had to use a sealant on the pan though.
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-01-23 12:42 PM (#618710 - in reply to #618706)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks - ATF fluid pan



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9894
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Location: Lower Mainland BC
.
Was there a Torque value to meet when reinstalling a pan with a new gasket? Or was it just "Goodentite"?

Found this photo in my Powerflite files, showing the reverse switch, the filler tube and the drain plug (and EnnTeen bolts).

When I get my 56 Dodge out of the garage next, I will turn the OE Powerflite over in its cradle and remove the drain plug and measure the drain plug and the crush washer. Right now it is pinned to the front wall of my 12 x 20 1942 garage by the 217" long Dodge (do the math - I have about 1 ft at the front and 8 inches at the back)


Edited by 56D500boy 2022-01-23 12:46 PM




(56DodgePowerFliteTransShowingLtoR_ReverseSwitchFillerTubeAndDrainPlug.jpg)



(56DodgePowerFlite_LeftSide.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 56DodgePowerFliteTransShowingLtoR_ReverseSwitchFillerTubeAndDrainPlug.jpg (142KB - 149 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgePowerFlite_LeftSide.jpg (161KB - 149 downloads)
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local2Ed
Posted 2022-01-23 2:45 PM (#618715 - in reply to #618588)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks - ATF fluid pan


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 580
500252525
Page 345 in a 1957 Dodge FSM for a PowerFlite -

"Replace oil pan and gasket (new) tighten oil pan bolts 12 to 17 foot-pounds torque."
I would expect the TorqueFlite to be the same.

In the general specifications section it shows torque values for different size bolts.
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-01-31 9:11 PM (#618927 - in reply to #618710)
Subject: Re: Chasing and Solving Powerflite and Torqueflite leaks - ATF fluid pan



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9894
500020002000500100100100252525
Location: Lower Mainland BC
56D500boy - 2022-01-23 9:42 AM
When I get my 56 Dodge out of the garage next, I will turn the OE Powerflite over in its cradle and remove the drain plug and measure the drain plug and the crush washer. Right now it is pinned to the front wall of my 12 x 20 1942 garage by the 217" long Dodge (do the math - I have about 1 ft at the front and 8 inches at the back)


Okay. Today here was "nice" (enough) to get the car out. Sunny, calm, dry, 6 C (about 43 F) so I fired up the blue beast, let it warm up and took it for a 30 minute drive (and ran some errands). When I got back, I parked it on the street and did some straightening in the garage. And I flipped the Powerflite over and removed the drain plug and did some measurements.

The drain plug takes a 3/4" socket. The crush washer on mine was/is aluminum. OD is a tad over 0.7" (see photo below) and the ID is a tad over 0.5" (see below) - just enough to clear the threads on the plug.

The Dorman 725-015BX copper crush washer comes close but is not perfectly correct.

Edited by 56D500boy 2022-01-31 9:23 PM




(56DodgePowerFliteDrainPlug3-4InchSocket.jpg)



(56DodgePowerFliteDrainPlugODThreads.jpg)



(56DodgePowerFliteDrainPlugODCrushWasher.jpg)



(Dorman725-015BXCrushWasherDetails.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 56DodgePowerFliteDrainPlug3-4InchSocket.jpg (130KB - 144 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgePowerFliteDrainPlugODThreads.jpg (128KB - 147 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgePowerFliteDrainPlugODCrushWasher.jpg (128KB - 148 downloads)
Attachments Dorman725-015BXCrushWasherDetails.jpg (80KB - 142 downloads)
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