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Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-21 5:59 PM (#628423 - in reply to #628419)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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Thanks for those ideas Nathan. I didn't see them until after I went out to a plumbing and heating supply shop and bought some 1/4" elbows and a brass PEX fitting that will end up as the hose barb for the hose from the PCV valve in the valley cover grommet to this hard-piped set up.

I have mocked the plumbing up using those 1/4" elbows and a piece of 1/4" bathroom tap supply tubing (in chrome) and another piece in plastic - just to lay out the concept.

I have no idea where I can get a slab of solid phenolic plastic but that would be good if I could. I was planning to drill the holes for the venturis using a 1.25" Forstner bit, typically the type used to set European-style hinges in kitchen cabinets. Typically produces a nice smooth hole.

The first (partial) plumbing mock-up:



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-03-21 6:24 PM




(PipingMockUpWith1_4inchFittings.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments PipingMockUpWith1_4inchFittings.jpg (149KB - 69 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-23 7:18 PM (#628466 - in reply to #628405)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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Picked up the TransDapt 2584 phenolic spacer plate with PCV tube inlet today. Mixed emotions. It is potentially going to work (with some mods). It is quite a bit bigger than the Carter WCFB base and will not need to be "hogged out" to work. If anything, it could use some epoxy fill and maybe brass pipe to carry the flow from the carb to the intake without getting lost in the over-sized cavity that will be created by the two WCFB base gaskets that will be used.

It will definitely be okay with re-drilling the holes for the attachment studs (and then cutting off the excess "ear" material as Justin had suggested.

On the downside, I am not impressed by TransDapt's solution to distribute the air (oil vapour) flow to the two primary venturi's. They just drilled two holes that connect back to the area where the PCV hose nipple enters the spacer. I think that the two holes could be bigger and done better (they could have champfered the holes at the outlet end to make the flow better).

So it is either this or me making a plate from Plywood or a slab of phenolic plastic (if I can find some) (I contacted a local plastics supplier the other day but I haven't heard BOO back from the so far).

From 45 min ago:



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-03-23 7:52 PM




(CarterWCFBBasedGasketOnTopOfTransDapt2584PCVSpacerPlate.jpg)



(CarterWCFBBasedGasketOnBottomOfTransDapt2584PCVSpacerPlate.jpg)



(TransDapt2584PCVSpacerPlateLayingOnCarter2443SWCFB4bblCarb.jpg)



(TransDaptSolutionToThePVCInletAndFlowDistribution_1.jpg)



(TransDaptSolutionToThePVCInletAndFlowDistribution_2.jpg)



(TransDaptSolutionToThePVCInletAndFlowDistribution_3.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments CarterWCFBBasedGasketOnTopOfTransDapt2584PCVSpacerPlate.jpg (147KB - 65 downloads)
Attachments CarterWCFBBasedGasketOnBottomOfTransDapt2584PCVSpacerPlate.jpg (149KB - 79 downloads)
Attachments TransDapt2584PCVSpacerPlateLayingOnCarter2443SWCFB4bblCarb.jpg (146KB - 68 downloads)
Attachments TransDaptSolutionToThePVCInletAndFlowDistribution_1.jpg (149KB - 66 downloads)
Attachments TransDaptSolutionToThePVCInletAndFlowDistribution_2.jpg (142KB - 76 downloads)
Attachments TransDaptSolutionToThePVCInletAndFlowDistribution_3.jpg (146KB - 67 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2023-03-23 8:00 PM (#628467 - in reply to #627553)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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I don't think that's going to work. It's probably going to create a vacuum leak. I haven't looked over it myself, but I know that people that try to use original WCFB dual carbs on hogged out 300C dual quad intakes (done to use AFB carbs on it), that they end up with a big vacuum leak, and it runs crappy. The unsupported gasket won't fix the problem, so check it out thoroughly before you leap with it.
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-24 2:28 PM (#628488 - in reply to #628467)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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Thanks Nathan. *IF* I go with a modified TransDapt 2584 spacer plate, I will keep your words of caution re: vacuum leaks in mind.

That said, yesterday, when I was looking at the spacer and the void between the size of the spacer holes and the size of the WCFB butterflies, I knew that I would want to fill that space, somehow.

As I was falling asleep last night, I started to imagine some kind of brass tube to create a asmooth flow path through the 2584 from the carb to the intake manifold. Then I fell asleep.

This AM, after I came back from the gym (Planet Fitness) with my Healthy Heart buddies (and one buddette), I went downstairs to my "work room" aka "Shop" aka "My what blew up in here?? room" and opened the "Plumbing Stuff" bin and pulled out a brass sink tailpiece tube that I knew that I had from years ago (never throw anything out in case it comes in handy later). Then I tried the brass tube in the WCFB gasket and it fit perfectly (pretty much). Yippee!

Then I tried the tube on the bottom of the spare WCFB that I have and found that the butterflies clear perfectly. Yippee x 2!!

So right now, the only issue with no answer is how will I fill the off-set annular space between the outside of the brass tube and the inside of the 2584? Epoxy or silicone sealant? (Keeping mind Nathan's vacuum leak concern).

This:



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-03-24 2:35 PM




(TransDapt2584SpacerBrassPlumbingTubeAndWCFBGasket.jpg)



(BrassPlumbingTubeInWCFBBaseGasketShowingHowItFillsTheAnularSpace.jpg)



(BrassPlumbingTubeInWCFBBaseGasketSittingOnWCFBCarb.jpg)



(BrassPlumbingTubeSittingOnWCFBCarb_ButterflyClosed.jpg)



(BrassPlumbingTubeSittingOnWCFBCarb_ButterflyOpen.jpg)



(TransDapt2584SpacerPlateWithBrassPlumingTubeInWCFBGasketShowingOffSetAnnularSpaceThatNeedsFilling.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments TransDapt2584SpacerBrassPlumbingTubeAndWCFBGasket.jpg (149KB - 66 downloads)
Attachments BrassPlumbingTubeInWCFBBaseGasketShowingHowItFillsTheAnularSpace.jpg (143KB - 76 downloads)
Attachments BrassPlumbingTubeInWCFBBaseGasketSittingOnWCFBCarb.jpg (146KB - 63 downloads)
Attachments BrassPlumbingTubeSittingOnWCFBCarb_ButterflyClosed.jpg (145KB - 67 downloads)
Attachments BrassPlumbingTubeSittingOnWCFBCarb_ButterflyOpen.jpg (143KB - 68 downloads)
Attachments TransDapt2584SpacerPlateWithBrassPlumingTubeInWCFBGasketShowingOffSetAnnularSpaceThatNeedsFilling.jpg (143KB - 79 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-28 2:49 PM (#628591 - in reply to #628488)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
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The local plastics guy came back to me with this chart from his wholesaler. I asked for quotes on the Paper Phenolic XX and the Glass Phenolic G3.

Not sure what they will have or how much they will cost.

While I am waiting to get a slab of Phenolic plastic from the local supplier, I will work on modifying the TransDapt 2584.



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-03-28 2:51 PM




(PotentialPhenolicPlasticsToMakeASpacerPlate.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments PotentialPhenolicPlasticsToMakeASpacerPlate.jpg (149KB - 66 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-28 5:56 PM (#628595 - in reply to #628591)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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56D500boy - 2023-03-28 11:49 AM
While I am waiting to get a slab of Phenolic plastic from the local supplier, I will work on modifying the TransDapt 2584.


Started the modifications. Redrilled the 2584 spacer using a WCFB base gasket at the template. That plastic is hard hard hard.

Mocked up the installation with the spare WCFB that I bought and the tubing that I intend to run to the back of the carb to the PCV valve area.

Had to notch the spacer to clear part of the WCFB. Looks like everything else, including the hard piping, can be arranged to eliminate any potential clearance issues.





Edited by 56D500boy 2023-03-28 10:45 PM




(TransDapt2584DrilledAndNotchedForCarterWCFB.jpg)



(TransDapt2584DrilledAndNotchedForCarterWCFB_withBaseGasket.jpg)



(TransDapt2584DrilledAndNotchedForCarterWCFB_withBaseGasket_AndCarb_Front.jpg)



(TransDapt2584DrilledAndNotchedForCarterWCFB_withBaseGasket_AndCarb_RightSide.jpg)



(TransDapt2584DrilledAndNotchedForCarterWCFB_withBaseGasket_AndCarb_RightSide_WithPCVPipingMockUp_1.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments TransDapt2584DrilledAndNotchedForCarterWCFB.jpg (142KB - 72 downloads)
Attachments TransDapt2584DrilledAndNotchedForCarterWCFB_withBaseGasket.jpg (146KB - 65 downloads)
Attachments TransDapt2584DrilledAndNotchedForCarterWCFB_withBaseGasket_AndCarb_Front.jpg (147KB - 68 downloads)
Attachments TransDapt2584DrilledAndNotchedForCarterWCFB_withBaseGasket_AndCarb_RightSide.jpg (146KB - 79 downloads)
Attachments TransDapt2584DrilledAndNotchedForCarterWCFB_withBaseGasket_AndCarb_RightSide_WithPCVPipingMockUp_1.jpg (145KB - 72 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-03-30 10:05 AM (#628611 - in reply to #628591)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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56D500boy - 2023-03-28 11:49 AM

.
The local plastics guy came back to me with this chart from his wholesaler. I asked for quotes on the Paper Phenolic XX and the Glass Phenolic G3.

Not sure what they will have or how much they will cost.

While I am waiting to get a slab of Phenolic plastic from the local supplier, I will work on modifying the TransDapt 2584.



Ohly Sh*t. Heard back from the plastics supplier:

"Hi David. We can supply the following:

QTY Description Cost/e

1 XX Natural Phenolic 0.750 x 12 x 12 $305.00

1 G3 Phenolic Plate 0.750 x 12 x 12 $385.00

Inbound Freight: $75.00/lot

Delivery is roughly 3 weeks

Thank you, Corry"

While 12" x 12" would be enough for 4 WCFB spacers. That is still crazy.

I will stick with modifying the TransDapt 2584 (which I have learned *IS* set up for a Holley carb)

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samstrader
Posted 2023-03-31 8:37 PM (#628644 - in reply to #627553)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner


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The TransDapt 2584 sure looks good to me. Are the ears with the bolt holes required or can you cut them off with a router? I think it looks great.
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-04-01 6:00 PM (#628668 - in reply to #628644)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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samstrader - 2023-03-31 5:37 PM
The TransDapt 2584 sure looks good to me. Are the ears with the bolt holes required or can you cut them off with a router? I think it looks great.


The "ears" are needed for the Holley and *maybe* an AFB AVS application (I don't know). *BUT* they are NOT needed for the Carter WCFB mounting.

I am going to keep the ears on the right (passenger side) to help hold my planned PCV hard piping. But I will cut off the ears on the driver's (left) side since they serve no purpose for me.

This will not be perfect but it will be less expensive than perfect

I cut the notch in the plate to clear a hard point on the WCFB with my Dremel EZ-Cut cutting disk. Lots of phenolic dust. Wear an N95 mask.



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-04-01 6:02 PM
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ronbo97
Posted 2023-05-06 11:51 AM (#629351 - in reply to #628668)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner


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Test. Test.

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samstrader
Posted 2023-05-10 4:22 PM (#629440 - in reply to #627553)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner


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Hi Dave,

Did you get your PCV system working?
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-05-11 1:33 AM (#629449 - in reply to #629440)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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samstrader - 2023-05-10 1:22 PM
Hi Dave,
Did you get your PCV system working?


Yes and no. I have been out of the country for more than 4 weeks now but before I left I ran the old girl with the PCV valve with the tube to the bottom of the air cleaner (as per the photo below). Didn't notice any problems.

When I get home next week some time, I will get back to modifying that Holley spacer plate and installing that.

This is where I am at now:

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samstrader
Posted 2023-05-11 11:28 AM (#629458 - in reply to #627553)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner


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Location: Beaumont TX
It seems to me like this current system will work but you will have more crankcase purge if you connect the PCV valve to a higher vacuum source. Good luck. The Holly spacer really looks good to me.
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-07-22 9:38 PM (#630892 - in reply to #629449)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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Finally back on this project.

I cut a 1" (or so) piece off that brass plumbing sink tail piece and tried it in the gasket with the other part of the tail piece. This is going to work.

*HOWEVER* I am struggling with the decision of what to fill the annular space with. Epoxy or black silicone caulking? I am leaning towards the caulking at this point.

What to do, what to do.

And I have to remember to keep the vent holes in the front venturi part of the spacer open otherwise, no workie.



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-07-22 9:45 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-07-23 9:21 PM (#630912 - in reply to #630892)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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This (below) is what I am talking about. I need to get the brass tubes tight to the center "bar" of the TransDapt spacer and fill the annular spaces everywhere else (Somehow)





(BrassPlumbingTubesSittingLooselyInTransAdaptAndBaseWCFBgasket.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments BrassPlumbingTubesSittingLooselyInTransAdaptAndBaseWCFBgasket.jpg (144KB - 58 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-07-24 2:22 PM (#630924 - in reply to #630912)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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This Phenolic spacer, made specifically for the Carter WCFBs, looks tempting. Except the seller only has one (at 1/4" thick, I would need two to create ported sandwich for a PCV inlet).



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-07-24 2:25 PM




(CarterWCFBQuarterInchThickPhenolicSpacer_1_small.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments CarterWCFBQuarterInchThickPhenolicSpacer_1_small.jpg (142KB - 55 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2023-07-25 7:36 PM (#630959 - in reply to #630924)
Subject: Re: Determining the best location for a PCV valve nipple on a converted oil bath aircleaner



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I guess that I am going to try making a PCV carb spacer plate after all. :P

I might still go with the 1" TransDapt PCV carb spacer plate (BUT I am stalled trying to figure out how to hold/mount the 1.5" brass tubes in the 1" thick spacer).

I almost bought two of the 1/2" thick Phenolic Carter WCFB spacers on eBay but they are about US$45 each (x 2) and they would still have to be modified so the price will be getting out of hand.

I have some 9 ply 3/8" thick Baltic Birch plywood on hand so I think that I will try my original DIY plan (previously posted in this thread)

I just bought a 1.5" Forstner bit (for $14 at a local tool shop (KMS tools)) and tried it on a scrap piece of plywood and then tried the brass plumbing sink tail piece in the hole. Fits perfectly.

Now this is where I had Del S's precise layout skills so I can drill 4 holes in the 9 ply plywood in the correct location (and then repeat for the 2nd piece)

I have ideas about how to do the vapour-sucking holes into the primary venturis (I will line then with 3/8" brass pluming sink faucet supply tube material).

I just have to get the layout dimensions right to start with.

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