The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

1961 starter interchange
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Electrical, Battery and ChargingMessage format
 
Apollo 61
Posted 2023-06-27 1:37 AM (#630435)
Subject: 1961 starter interchange



Elite Veteran

Posts: 769
5001001002525
On a 61 cast iron trans.
Is there a difference between poly 318 and 413 automatic starters?
Is there a difference between manual and automatic starters.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2023-06-27 3:43 AM (#630437 - in reply to #630435)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9664
5000200020005001002525
Location: So. Cal
There's no rhyme or reason to the mopar starter interchange. You just have to look it up.
No, they don't directly interchange. They don't specify a separate manual trans option in '61 so maybe there isn't a difference between them, but the big block starter is what was used in '62-'64 on the manual transmissions.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
saaca
Posted 2024-02-20 6:39 PM (#633822 - in reply to #630435)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Member

Posts: 21

I know this is an old thread but I'm stumped...I have a 61 newport with a 361....did the right thing and had my starter rebuilt and before I could reinstall it some dirtwad stole it.....probably scrapped it for 2 bucks.....I have the pricy ami starter and half dozen others that folks say should have worked...the ami fits but doesn't come out far enough to engage .....HELP
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2024-02-22 9:39 PM (#633863 - in reply to #630435)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
50002000100100100100
Location: northern germany
Got a Pic of that AMI starter? How far does the gear come out when it spins?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2024-02-22 9:41 PM (#633864 - in reply to #630435)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
50002000100100100100
Location: northern germany
No, Poly starters do not fit big blocks.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
NicksGarage
Posted 2024-02-23 7:39 PM (#633868 - in reply to #633822)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert

Posts: 1223
1000100100
Location: Ramona, CA
saaca - 2024-02-20 3:39 PM

I know this is an old thread but I'm stumped...I have a 61 newport with a 361....did the right thing and had my starter rebuilt and before I could reinstall it some dirtwad stole it.....probably scrapped it for 2 bucks.....I have the pricy ami starter and half dozen others that folks say should have worked...the ami fits but doesn't come out far enough to engage .....HELP


I've put this mini starter in two of my 1960 Chryslers with 413s.

https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=600

Works great but does need a slight grinding on the housing to fit.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2024-02-23 8:19 PM (#633869 - in reply to #633868)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
50002000100100100100
Location: northern germany
NicksGarage - 2024-02-23 7:39 PM

I've put this mini starter in two of my 1960 Chryslers with 413s.

https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=600



Which one? From the listing the last 3 could fit. One says 56-58 non Hemi, which is a 58 350/361 Big Block, Poly and 6 too. Second says 59-61 non Hemi, which would be Big Block, Poly, straight and /6 too. 3rd says 59-61 V8 only, which is Big Block and Poly.....

Since the 58-61 BB uses a different bolt patten than Poly or /6, the listing MUST be incorrect.

Edited by 1960fury 2024-02-23 8:21 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2024-02-23 8:43 PM (#633871 - in reply to #630435)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9664
5000200020005001002525
Location: So. Cal
All those starters come from IMI. Just contact them directly and get the starter you need. They do know which one you need, but their catalog is lousy. And information around mopar starter interchange is very confusing, so it's no wonder that middle men like Quality Power have it jumbled up. And Nick is right, the IMI adapter requires some grinding on it's edge to get it to fit well to the earlier blocks. If his isn't engaging, I would expect that he didn't grind the edge well, causing it to sit further back.

Edited by Powerflite 2024-02-23 8:47 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
hemidenis
Posted 2024-02-23 9:20 PM (#633874 - in reply to #630435)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert

Posts: 3887
20001000500100100100252525
Location: Northen Virginia
$280 for a starter doesn't seems like a lot, but the fact that you still have to grind it to fit it is outrageous. I remember changing the stock starter for another stock and was not an easy task, the exhaust pipe was right in the way... Thinking in adapting something in such a confine space does not taste right.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2024-02-23 9:49 PM (#633875 - in reply to #633874)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
50002000100100100100
Location: northern germany
hemidenis - 2024-02-23 9:20 PM

$280 for a starter doesn't seems like a lot, but the fact that you still have to grind it to fit it is outrageous. I remember changing the stock starter for another stock and was not an easy task, the exhaust pipe was right in the way... Thinking in adapting something in such a confine space does not taste right.


Haven't tried it yet, but since I'm warned now, I will check fitment with the base plate (flange) only. Takes about 1 minute to unscrew it from the starter assy.

Shouldn't be a big deal to make it fit. I can live with such mods, if the part lasts. Heck, I'm still in disbelieve, that I can buy a brand new wear part for a 65(!) year old engine. So I won't complain!

Already checked gear reach. It is WAY shorter than the OE starter, that doesn't mean it does not engage. I will certainly check for full engagement before I bolt it to my engine.
There is a spacer, that can be removed, that extends the reach almost 1/8" this will also make the whole assy more rigid. If that isn't enough, you could pull out the gear a bit more outward from the shaft, it's pressed on. This will certainly bring it to OE reach. So I don't worry about that. I only worry about dependability. The unit looks flimsy and certainly won't last another 65 years of daily use.

Not sure if the one I bought is the same as the IMI here, but it looks to be. Base plate is a bit differnet though, has more holes (360° mounting possibilities) in it.

Edited by 1960fury 2024-02-23 10:10 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2024-02-23 9:54 PM (#633876 - in reply to #633875)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
50002000100100100100
Location: northern germany
Ok, maybe it's different same layout at least....

Edited by 1960fury 2024-02-23 10:04 PM




(wosp.jpg)



(IMI-122-005.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments wosp.jpg (110KB - 16 downloads)
Attachments IMI-122-005.jpg (32KB - 19 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
hemidenis
Posted 2024-02-23 10:14 PM (#633877 - in reply to #630435)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert

Posts: 3887
20001000500100100100252525
Location: Northen Virginia
Look good Sid, one of these starter will last longer than the original if was made in Japan. I saw the Nippon Denso last 300k+ miles which was unimaginable for any mechanical part of our cars.

A few days ago I made a concrete pad to install a two post car lift, so I imagine these kind of tasks are going to be easier. Changing a starter laying on the floor it is not easy...I done it...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
hemidenis
Posted 2024-02-23 10:37 PM (#633880 - in reply to #630435)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert

Posts: 3887
20001000500100100100252525
Location: Northen Virginia
I imagine this Power master listed for SB BB and hemi wont fit...



(Untitled5.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Untitled5.jpg (36KB - 18 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
NicksGarage
Posted 2024-02-26 5:47 PM (#633905 - in reply to #633869)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert

Posts: 1223
1000100100
Location: Ramona, CA
1960fury - 2024-02-23 5:19 PM

NicksGarage - 2024-02-23 7:39 PM

I've put this mini starter in two of my 1960 Chryslers with 413s.

https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=600



Which one? From the listing the last 3 could fit. One says 56-58 non Hemi, which is a 58 350/361 Big Block, Poly and 6 too. Second says 59-61 non Hemi, which would be Big Block, Poly, straight and /6 too. 3rd says 59-61 V8 only, which is Big Block and Poly.....

Since the 58-61 BB uses a different bolt patten than Poly or /6, the listing MUST be incorrect.


I used this one - Chrysler 1959-1961 non Hemi (126-001) $280.00

Here are some pictures - https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bb9NDYboiqD9ivV46
Top of the page Bottom of the page
NicksGarage
Posted 2024-02-26 5:53 PM (#633906 - in reply to #630435)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert

Posts: 1223
1000100100
Location: Ramona, CA
This is the area on the mini starter adapter that I had to grind to fit both of my 1960 413s. It didn't take much. You also need a bolt for the top as the original starter has a stud sticking out. And the battery cables need to be about 6" longer since the connections are at the bottom of the starter. For the positive, I used two cables joined at the starter relay and extended the control wire.


Edited by NicksGarage 2024-02-26 5:57 PM




(20220409_170555.jpg)



(20210918_111503.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 20220409_170555.jpg (200KB - 18 downloads)
Attachments 20210918_111503.jpg (168KB - 14 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
hemidenis
Posted 2024-02-29 8:25 PM (#633975 - in reply to #630435)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert

Posts: 3887
20001000500100100100252525
Location: Northen Virginia
Excellent info nick, very professional work.
I can see that the grinding was related to an imperfection in the Mopar casting, out of round, and not in the starter itself. I will definitely get one this summer.

If you have the time, I think we will all like to hear the engine turn with it. I'm pretty sure most of the FL cars having problem with the "firing" issues, could be improved with a faster spinning starter.

Edited by hemidenis 2024-02-29 8:30 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2024-02-29 9:07 PM (#633976 - in reply to #633975)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
50002000100100100100
Location: northern germany
hemidenis - 2024-02-29 8:25 PM


I can see that the grinding was related to an imperfection in the Mopar casting, out of round, and not in the starter itself. I will definitely get one this summer.

If you have the time, I think we will all like to hear the engine turn with it. I'm pretty sure most of the FL cars having problem with the "firing" issues, could be improved with a faster spinning starter.


That is not an imperfection, it is a cast surface, not a machined mating surface. The OE Starter is not suposed to touch the engine block there and clears it by a mile. After 36 years with these cars daily, I'm not aware of any FL "firing issues".

Edited by 1960fury 2024-02-29 11:03 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2024-02-29 9:25 PM (#633977 - in reply to #633877)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
50002000100100100100
Location: northern germany
hemidenis - 2024-02-23 10:14 PM

Look good Sid, one of these starter will last longer than the original if was made in Japan. I saw the Nippon Denso last 300k+ miles which was unimaginable for any mechanical part of our cars.



Was this meant to be a joke? No Nippon parts will ever outlast these cars. were are all the Nippon toys, Civics, CRX's, etc hat challenged me 30 years ago? They not only got smoked, they died the mechanical death many years ago.

"Unimaginable".... Almost everything is still OE in my 370K miles formerly abused car, including front wheel bearings, inner tie od ends and B&T U joint. The rear axle is almost untouched.

Just (3 hours ago) had my 370K miles/ 64+ year old Fury up to 135mph in no time with lots of air under the pedal. I have little doubt, it revs in direkt to redline, that means 170 mph. Impossible with any Jap car 60 years old, or with a new one 60 years from now.
I drive my cars almost daily since the 80s and there are no others cars that are more reliable. Mechanically they are engineered for the eternity.

As I said before, I always crank my engine during cold starts to get oil pressure first, that really stresses the starter and thats why it gave up after about 150K miles. It didn't even give up, it is just slow sometimes, never left me stranded.
That flimsy Nippon starter won't last as long, I guess and as I know Nippon parts, it probably breaks without a warning, leaving me stranded. It might have a roller bearing, but no outer support for the shaft.

Edited by 1960fury 2024-02-29 11:08 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2024-02-29 9:28 PM (#633978 - in reply to #633906)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
50002000100100100100
Location: northern germany
NicksGarage - 2024-02-26 5:53 PM

This is the area on the mini starter adapter that I had to grind to fit both of my 1960 413s. It didn't take much. You also need a bolt for the top as the original starter has a stud sticking out. And the battery cables need to be about 6" longer since the connections are at the bottom of the starter. For the positive, I used two cables joined at the starter relay and extended the control wire.


Thanks Nick! That picture will help when I install mine. Looks like you have the same starter type, only the base plate has 18 holes, mine has 20.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Apollo 61
Posted 2024-03-01 1:09 AM (#633982 - in reply to #633864)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Elite Veteran

Posts: 769
5001001002525
1960fury - 2024-02-22 9:41 PM

No, Poly starters do not fit big blocks.


Can you tell me if it’s just a nose cone swap difference?


Edited by Apollo 61 2024-03-01 1:53 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Zorc
Posted 2024-03-01 2:57 PM (#633990 - in reply to #630435)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Regular

Posts: 93
252525
Location: North Germany
Last year i tried to buy a new starter for my 61 NY. I got a "powermaster" , this fits on a 62 - so i though its also working on my 61. No - the Autotransmission is different . The pinion only goes out about 40 mm , for our 61 the pinion must go out about 50 mm ( 2 inch ) to come against the ring gear . in Germany its not possible to find the correct starter and also not at rockauto. At the end i repaired the old starter, works fine
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2024-03-01 7:39 PM (#633996 - in reply to #633982)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
50002000100100100100
Location: northern germany
Apollo 61 - 2024-03-01 1:09 AM

1960fury - 2024-02-22 9:41 PM

No, Poly starters do not fit big blocks.


Can you tell me if it’s just a nose cone swap difference?


I don't know, but I don't think so
Top of the page Bottom of the page
NicksGarage
Posted 2024-03-02 11:12 AM (#634005 - in reply to #633990)
Subject: Re: 1961 starter interchange



Expert

Posts: 1223
1000100100
Location: Ramona, CA
Zorc - 2024-03-01 11:57 AM

Last year i tried to buy a new starter for my 61 NY. I got a "powermaster" , this fits on a 62 - so i though its also working on my 61. No - the Autotransmission is different . The pinion only goes out about 40 mm , for our 61 the pinion must go out about 50 mm ( 2 inch ) to come against the ring gear . in Germany its not possible to find the correct starter and also not at rockauto. At the end i repaired the old starter, works fine


The gear pitch is also wrong.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

* * * This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated * * *


(Delete all cookies set by this site)